The Kid calls it a career

stevew · 06-02-2010, 10:07 PM

1. One of the best players we'll ever see.
2. I don't think he was on the juice.
3. I now feel very old.

Sweed · 06-02-2010, 10:08 PM

Lebron?

spleen1015 · 06-02-2010, 10:10 PM

Too bad he suffered all of those injuries.

Hell of a player.

Vince, Pt. II · 06-02-2010, 10:29 PM

Yeah, I'm sad

PilotMan · 06-02-2010, 10:32 PM

I am with you Steve.

My best memories are of him having a 2-HR game here in Cincinnati. And another where he hit a homerun and threw a guy out at the plate from deep centerfield playing in the metrodome.

I am feeling very emotional about the whole thing.

Pumpy Tudors · 06-02-2010, 10:38 PM

Sidney Crosby is done already? So Colin White has his name on the Cup more times than Sidney Crosby does? I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Pumpy Tudors · 06-02-2010, 10:39 PM

RedHawk00 · 06-02-2010, 11:07 PM

very sad day, i was living and growing up during his time in Seattle, no one could wear 24 on a baseball team because every kid wanted to. and millions of kids everywhere got to point to Griffey and say, but he wears his hat backwards and he isn't a catcher, so I can!

korme · 06-02-2010, 11:45 PM

One of the most complete 5-tool players ever, in his prime. It says something when my brother and I grew up as die hard Reds fans but he still had a Griffey (Mariners) poster hanging over his bed.

korme · 06-02-2010, 11:50 PM

dawgfan · 06-02-2010, 11:50 PM

Great player - too bad about the injuries. He's my age, so he was the perfect guy to root for as an M's fan. Real flair for the dramatic throughout his career. No question he had a huge impact on the long-term viability of the M's in Seattle, and it's only a slight exaggeration to say that Safeco is the "House that Junior built".

I just wish he'd called it a career after the end of last season - riding off into the sunset on the shoulders of his teammates would've been the ideal end to his career...

korme · 06-02-2010, 11:51 PM

dawgfan · 06-02-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

What a catch. I'm betting many people don't realize that the M's miracle '95 season was done with Griffey only playing 72 games because of him breaking his wrist on this catch.

korme · 06-02-2010, 11:52 PM

Tasan · 06-03-2010, 12:05 AM

As a Rangers fan, I hated the man, but as a baseball fan in general, I loved getting to see him. Farewell Ranger killer.

Lathum · 06-03-2010, 12:09 AM

Best player I have ever seen play and someday will tell my son I got to watch him play much the way my Dad told me about how he saw Satchel Paige pitch.

Baseball is awesome.

JS19 · 06-03-2010, 12:14 AM

He was the best. A shame with all the injuries and how some people may doubt how great of a player he was because of them. I'll never forget watching as a youngster the '95 Divisional Series against the Yanks.

Tasan · 06-03-2010, 12:15 AM

I remember thinking after those 45 HR in 1993 that this 23 year old had a real good shot at breaking the all time HR record. Its a shame his injuries didn't let him really get a shot at it.

MikeVic · 06-03-2010, 12:16 AM

One of my favourite athletes in any sport. I started watching baseball with the two Blue Jays World Series, so he got my attention fast as a young kid. Mariners became by 2nd favourite team (even before the Expos) because of him and Randy Johnson. There are only a handful of players I can think of that, if I found out were juicing, would ruin baseball for me forever... and he's one of them.

molson · 06-03-2010, 12:22 AM

His post Mariners-career (original run) turned out to be just as long as his post-Mariners career. Kind of unreal. Sometimes it feels like he wasn't even in the league since 1999.

And ya, it definitely makes me feel old. I remember getting his Upper Deck rookie card in middle school, a million years ago.

molson · 06-03-2010, 12:26 AM

Dola-

Also looking back, wow did he take a below-market contract to play for the Reds. That first year with the Reds, when he should have been the highest paid player ever, he made less than Larry Walker, David Cone, Mo Vaughn, Raul Mondesi, and Shawn Green.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:27 AM

Always liked Griffey, even when he was on the M's. Hated Arod. Hated The Unit. Hated Buhner. Tolerated Martinez. Liked Griffey. Go figure.

Thanks for the memories, Junior.

DrAFTjunkie · 06-03-2010, 12:42 AM

His Upper Deck rookie card was like a golden ticket when I was a kid. It dethroned the Donruss Canseco rookie card. Still, neither were as cool as Billy "fuckface" Ripkin.

korme · 06-03-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Dola-

Also looking back, wow did he take a below-market contract to play for the Reds. That first year with the Reds, when he should have been the highest paid player ever, he made less than Larry Walker, David Cone, Mo Vaughn, Raul Mondesi, and Shawn Green.

One of the few players that would take a paycut to play for their hometown teams. Griffey was as selfless as he was talented.

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 12:56 AM

A great great player, and one of the most enjoyable guys around. Shame his day got upstaged. There will be some idiot who doesn't vote for Griffey on the 1st ballot of the HOF, but won't change the fact that this guy was one of the 30-40 best players of all time.

Lathum · 06-03-2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

A great great player, and one of the most enjoyable guys around. Shame his day got upstaged. There will be some idiot who doesn't vote for Griffey on the 1st ballot of the HOF, but won't change the fact that this guy was one of the 30-40 best players of all time.

30-40?

Are you including pitchers?

I say top 10 position players of all time.

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

30-40?

Are you including pitchers?

I say top 10 position players of all time.

Yup. At CF, Mays and Mantle (and perhaps Speaker) were better, and Griffey's equivalence is probably DiMaggio. Without running the rest, I'd extrapolate that out (while accepting that CF is more of a premium position than RF) and 30-40 seems right. I'd be curious to see where WAR and other numbers come out.

sterlingice · 06-03-2010, 09:13 AM

Definitely one of the best ever and, like others, feel that it's a shame that he suffered injuries or he could have rewritten some of the record books, giving Bonds a run run for his steroid money.

SI

Ramzavail · 06-03-2010, 09:28 AM

"It's never iffy, if it's Griffey"

I'd take DiMaggio over Griffey. I think a better equivalence is Duke Snider.

SteveMax58 · 06-03-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Definitely one of the best ever and, like others, feel that it's a shame that he suffered injuries or he could have rewritten some of the injury books, giving Bonds a run run for his steroid money.

SI

Was he an avid sportsmed book reader in his spare time?

RedHawk00 · 06-03-2010, 09:53 AM

i might still have one of his chocolate bars in the baseball card stash somewhere. one of the greatest moments of my life was being able to see Edgar hit that double to score Griffey, i was out in left field bleachers with my younger brother... definitely a game I will never forget.

oykib · 06-03-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

I'd take DiMaggio over Griffey. I think a better equivalence is Duke Snider.

Crazy talk. Griffey had twice the career of Duke Snider. Also, Dimaggio doesn't even approach Griffey unless you give him extra credit for the years he missed
during the war. Even with them, It's pretty even. And I'd give Griffey the bonus for playing in a more difficult era.

spleen1015 · 06-03-2010, 09:56 AM

#5 all time in HR.. with the way he played defense?

Top 10 all time most definitely.

sterlingice · 06-03-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Was he an avid sportsmed book reader in his spare time?

D'oh, fixed

SI

sterlingice · 06-03-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

#5 all time in HR.. with the way he played defense?

Top 10 all time most definitely.

I'm having a hard time placing him historically right now and I'm going to have to think on things. Fangraphs had a brief article up this morning about it and had this excellent graph:

More On Ken Griffey Jr.’s Career | FanGraphs Baseball

Now, I'm still not sold on using WAR as a be-all-end-all metric. Again, I think it puts too much weight on substandard fielding metrics but the author makes an excellent statement: "I don’t think anything quite sums up both the greatness and the disappointment of Ken Griffey Jr’s career as this graph"

I need to think more on where I would rank him all time and I'm sure many will try to do just that in the coming days.

SI

sterlingice · 06-03-2010, 10:20 AM

If you go just on WAR, he's the 36th best position player of all time right behind that 1800s duo of George Davis and Roger Connor. Huh?

It has him at -39.1 fielding and -2.6 positional for his career. Yeah, that's a load of bunk.

SI

lighthousekeeper · 06-03-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

Crazy talk. Griffey had twice the career of Duke Snider. Also, Dimaggio doesn't even approach Griffey unless you give him extra credit for the years he missed during the war. Even with them, It's pretty even. And I'd give Griffey the bonus for playing in a more difficult era.

Too bad there isn't a statistic that scores how simlar a player is to other players. We could even give it a funky name like "Similarity Score". Then we'd really know who the closest match is.

[I know...similarity scores definitely has flaws, as does career Runs Created (namely, the era adjustment), but this is still an interesting comparison]:

career runs created:
Griffey 1994
DiMaggio 1569
Snider 1477

chesapeake · 06-03-2010, 10:25 AM

The best game I ever went to was the classic against the Yankees in August of '95 where, with the M's down by 1, Vince Coleman works his way on and steals 2nd and 3rd, scoring on a base hit to tie it up. Then Griffey comes up and hits a 2-run bomb with the crowd going wild to win it. That win sparked the comeback against the Angels which led to their first playoff appearance.

How that team, with the talent it had, never even made the World Series confounds me to this day. It had 3 first-ballot HoFers plus Edgar Martinez.

Ramzavail · 06-03-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

Crazy talk. Griffey had twice the career of Duke Snider. Also, Dimaggio doesn't even approach Griffey unless you give him extra credit for the years he missed
during the war. Even with them, It's pretty even. And I'd give Griffey the bonus for playing in a more difficult era.

Joe Dimaggio is the 2nd greatest right handed hitter of all time (behind Rogers Hornsby) - you are too busy looking at "total" stats, without diving into the real stats. Dimaggio's hitting ability and his power/lack of strikeouts, puts Dimaggio's well above Griffey.

Since, you are so into "total" stats, add 2800 ABs to Duke Snider and see how close he comes to Griffey's "total" stats. I think the AVG,OBP,SLG, OPS, OPS+ fall in closer with Duke Snider than Joe Dimaggio.

and how is Griffey playing is a "more difficult" era? The expansion era with smaller ball parks?

Tasan · 06-03-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If you go just on WAR, he's the 36th best position player of all time right behind that 1800s duo of George Davis and Roger Connor. Huh?

It has him at -39.1 fielding and -2.6 positional for his career. Yeah, that's a load of bunk.

SI

I'm guessing most of that negative is his later years where he was almost a liability out there.

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2010, 10:31 AM

I like Griffey, Jr. and all, but Top 10 all time?! REALLY? Are we talking Top 10 Centerfielders?

cartman · 06-03-2010, 10:36 AM

I remember going to a Rangers game back in '94 or '95. A bunch of family was in from out of town, so we went as a group. The game went into extra innings, and it was a weeknight. We decided to stay to the bitter end. Griffey came up with men on the bases in the top of the 14th. The crowd started derisively chanting "Junior... Junior...". He proceeded to launch a bomb into the upper deck home run porch. Game ended about 1:30am. Had to be at work at 6am. Good times.

oykib · 06-03-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

Joe Dimaggio is the 2nd greatest right handed hitter of all time (behind Rogers Hornsby) - you are too busy looking at "total" stats, without diving into the real stats. Dimaggio's hitting ability and his power/lack of strikeouts, puts Dimaggio's well above Griffey.

Since, you are so into "total" stats, add 2800 ABs to Duke Snider and see how close he comes to Griffey's "total" stats. I think the AVG,OBP,SLG, OPS, OPS+ fall in closer with Duke Snider than Joe Dimaggio.

and how is Griffey playing is a "more difficult" era? The expansion era with smaller ball parks?

As a fellow Yankee fan, I love Joe D. But this era has integration, better scouting, and specialists. It's much harder to dominate now than it was then. I give all the WW2 players extra credit for the years they missed. But Griffey was a far better player than Snider. I'd also put him equal to Joe D.

Lathum · 06-03-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I like Griffey, Jr. and all, but Top 10 all time?! REALLY? Are we talking Top 10 Centerfielders?

IMO in the prime of his career he was one of the ten best players ever, and certainly the best I ever saw in 30 years of watching baseball.

If you want to factor in longevity and injuries into the equation and say he didn't have one of the top ten careers that's fine, but in the prime of his career there weren't many better, ever.

Ramzavail · 06-03-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

As a fellow Yankee fan, I love Joe D. But this era has integration, better scouting, and specialists. It's much harder to dominate now than it was then. I give all the WW2 players extra credit for the years they missed. But Griffey was a far better player than Snider. I'd also put him equal to Joe D.

How do you explain the similarities (Snider/Griffey) in AVG OBP OPS OPS+?

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

IMO in the prime of his career he was one of the ten best players ever, and certainly the best I ever saw in 30 years of watching baseball.

If you want to factor in longevity and injuries into the equation and say he didn't have one of the top ten careers that's fine, but in the prime of his career there weren't many better, ever.

One can't ignore he played two decades, regardless of how many want to assume he stopped playing in 2000.

And assuming that you want to disqualify Barry Bonds because of steroid usage, just about everyone agrees that Bonds started after 1998... and therefore you either didn't watch the Pirates/Giants during that same era (until 1998, of course).

And then again, if are talking prime of careers in the last 30 years, Barry Bonds may finish second to Albert Pujols (though Bonds did have the ridiculous steals numbers).

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesapeake

The best game I ever went to was the classic against the Yankees in August of '95 where, with the M's down by 1, Vince Coleman works his way on and steals 2nd and 3rd, scoring on a base hit to tie it up. Then Griffey comes up and hits a 2-run bomb with the crowd going wild to win it. That win sparked the comeback against the Angels which led to their first playoff appearance.

How that team, with the talent it had, never even made the World Series confounds me to this day. It had 3 first-ballot HoFers plus Edgar Martinez.

Well, sparked the winning from the M's side anyway.

Meanwhile, the Angels lost the heart of their team in Gary Disarcina near the start of August this year, which sparked the losing from their side.

Lathum · 06-03-2010, 11:54 AM

I am eliminating Bonds and IMO Jr. was better than Pujols, especially if you factor in Jr. played an amazing defensive CF while Pujols plays 1B.

And again, I'm not disputing the back end of his career loses him some points, but when I watched him play in his prime I have never seen anyone better on both sides of the ball.

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2010, 12:00 PM

I think its an interesting comparison... Griffey, Jr. was more valuable defensively in his first decade, but Pujols is far superior offensively in his first decade (look at OPS+ and RC/G for two example measures).

Logan · 06-03-2010, 12:14 PM

I'm less surprised by top 10 all-time than I am that he was called The Kid all these years and I didn't know it.

06-02-2010, 10:08 PM	#2
Sweed College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	Lebron? Last edited by Sweed : 06-02-2010 at 10:10 PM.

06-02-2010, 10:10 PM	#3
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Too bad he suffered all of those injuries. Hell of a player. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

06-02-2010, 10:38 PM	#6
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Sidney Crosby is done already? So Colin White has his name on the Cup more times than Sidney Crosby does? I'm not sure how I feel about this. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

06-02-2010, 10:39 PM	#7
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Oh. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

06-03-2010, 12:05 AM	#15
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	As a Rangers fan, I hated the man, but as a baseball fan in general, I loved getting to see him. Farewell Ranger killer. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

06-02-2010, 10:29 PM	#4
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Yeah, I'm sad

06-02-2010, 10:32 PM	#5
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	I am with you Steve. My best memories are of him having a 2-HR game here in Cincinnati. And another where he hit a homerun and threw a guy out at the plate from deep centerfield playing in the metrodome. I am feeling very emotional about the whole thing. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

06-02-2010, 11:07 PM	#8
RedHawk00 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Dec 2007	very sad day, i was living and growing up during his time in Seattle, no one could wear 24 on a baseball team because every kid wanted to. and millions of kids everywhere got to point to Griffey and say, but he wears his hat backwards and he isn't a catcher, so I can!

06-02-2010, 11:45 PM	#9
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	One of the most complete 5-tool players ever, in his prime. It says something when my brother and I grew up as die hard Reds fans but he still had a Griffey (Mariners) poster hanging over his bed.

06-02-2010, 11:50 PM	#10
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio

06-02-2010, 11:50 PM	#11
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Great player - too bad about the injuries. He's my age, so he was the perfect guy to root for as an M's fan. Real flair for the dramatic throughout his career. No question he had a huge impact on the long-term viability of the M's in Seattle, and it's only a slight exaggeration to say that Safeco is the "House that Junior built". I just wish he'd called it a career after the end of last season - riding off into the sunset on the shoulders of his teammates would've been the ideal end to his career...

06-02-2010, 11:51 PM	#12
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio

06-02-2010, 11:52 PM	#14
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio

06-03-2010, 12:09 AM	#16
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Best player I have ever seen play and someday will tell my son I got to watch him play much the way my Dad told me about how he saw Satchel Paige pitch. Baseball is awesome.

06-03-2010, 12:14 AM	#17
JS19 College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NY	He was the best. A shame with all the injuries and how some people may doubt how great of a player he was because of them. I'll never forget watching as a youngster the '95 Divisional Series against the Yanks.

06-03-2010, 12:15 AM	#18
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	I remember thinking after those 45 HR in 1993 that this 23 year old had a real good shot at breaking the all time HR record. Its a shame his injuries didn't let him really get a shot at it. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty Last edited by Tasan : 06-03-2010 at 12:16 AM.

06-03-2010, 12:16 AM	#19
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	One of my favourite athletes in any sport. I started watching baseball with the two Blue Jays World Series, so he got my attention fast as a young kid. Mariners became by 2nd favourite team (even before the Expos) because of him and Randy Johnson. There are only a handful of players I can think of that, if I found out were juicing, would ruin baseball for me forever... and he's one of them.

06-03-2010, 12:22 AM	#20
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	His post Mariners-career (original run) turned out to be just as long as his post-Mariners career. Kind of unreal. Sometimes it feels like he wasn't even in the league since 1999. And ya, it definitely makes me feel old. I remember getting his Upper Deck rookie card in middle school, a million years ago.

06-03-2010, 12:26 AM	#21
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Dola- Also looking back, wow did he take a below-market contract to play for the Reds. That first year with the Reds, when he should have been the highest paid player ever, he made less than Larry Walker, David Cone, Mo Vaughn, Raul Mondesi, and Shawn Green.

06-03-2010, 12:27 AM	#22
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Always liked Griffey, even when he was on the M's. Hated Arod. Hated The Unit. Hated Buhner. Tolerated Martinez. Liked Griffey. Go figure. Thanks for the memories, Junior. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

06-03-2010, 12:42 AM	#23
DrAFTjunkie H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Feb 2008	His Upper Deck rookie card was like a golden ticket when I was a kid. It dethroned the Donruss Canseco rookie card. Still, neither were as cool as Billy "fuckface" Ripkin.

06-03-2010, 12:56 AM	#25
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	A great great player, and one of the most enjoyable guys around. Shame his day got upstaged. There will be some idiot who doesn't vote for Griffey on the 1st ballot of the HOF, but won't change the fact that this guy was one of the 30-40 best players of all time.

06-03-2010, 09:13 AM	#28
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Definitely one of the best ever and, like others, feel that it's a shame that he suffered injuries or he could have rewritten some of the record books, giving Bonds a run run for his steroid money. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 06-03-2010 at 10:10 AM.

06-03-2010, 09:28 AM	#29
Ramzavail College Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Strong Island, NY	"It's never iffy, if it's Griffey" I'd take DiMaggio over Griffey. I think a better equivalence is Duke Snider.

06-03-2010, 09:53 AM	#31
RedHawk00 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Dec 2007	i might still have one of his chocolate bars in the baseball card stash somewhere. one of the greatest moments of my life was being able to see Edgar hit that double to score Griffey, i was out in left field bleachers with my younger brother... definitely a game I will never forget. Last edited by RedHawk00 : 06-03-2010 at 09:53 AM.

06-03-2010, 09:56 AM	#33
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	#5 all time in HR.. with the way he played defense? Top 10 all time most definitely. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

06-03-2010, 10:20 AM	#36
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	If you go just on WAR, he's the 36th best position player of all time right behind that 1800s duo of George Davis and Roger Connor. Huh? It has him at -39.1 fielding and -2.6 positional for his career. Yeah, that's a load of bunk. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-03-2010, 10:25 AM	#38
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	The best game I ever went to was the classic against the Yankees in August of '95 where, with the M's down by 1, Vince Coleman works his way on and steals 2nd and 3rd, scoring on a base hit to tie it up. Then Griffey comes up and hits a 2-run bomb with the crowd going wild to win it. That win sparked the comeback against the Angels which led to their first playoff appearance. How that team, with the talent it had, never even made the World Series confounds me to this day. It had 3 first-ballot HoFers plus Edgar Martinez.

06-03-2010, 10:31 AM	#41
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I like Griffey, Jr. and all, but Top 10 all time?! REALLY? Are we talking Top 10 Centerfielders? __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-03-2010, 10:36 AM	#42
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I remember going to a Rangers game back in '94 or '95. A bunch of family was in from out of town, so we went as a group. The game went into extra innings, and it was a weeknight. We decided to stay to the bitter end. Griffey came up with men on the bases in the top of the 14th. The crowd started derisively chanting "Junior... Junior...". He proceeded to launch a bomb into the upper deck home run porch. Game ended about 1:30am. Had to be at work at 6am. Good times. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-03-2010, 11:54 AM	#48
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I am eliminating Bonds and IMO Jr. was better than Pujols, especially if you factor in Jr. played an amazing defensive CF while Pujols plays 1B. And again, I'm not disputing the back end of his career loses him some points, but when I watched him play in his prime I have never seen anyone better on both sides of the ball.

06-03-2010, 12:00 PM	#49
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I think its an interesting comparison... Griffey, Jr. was more valuable defensively in his first decade, but Pujols is far superior offensively in his first decade (look at OPS+ and RC/G for two example measures). __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-03-2010, 12:14 PM	#50
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I'm less surprised by top 10 all-time than I am that he was called The Kid all these years and I didn't know it.

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