Horse Racing: A sport that encourages steroid use.

[14ers]

Maybe those tree huggers are right about animal cruelty in Horse racing. I know what steroids do to the human body, so why would a sport actually encourage it participants to take steroids?

Turns out the hole line about the animal's loving to run is total bullshit. They are running because they are all juiced up and going through ROID RAGE at the time.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...sCPD8hgDfiOmNw

Big Brown trainer admits giving horse steroids: report

11 hours ago
BALTIMORE, Maryland (AFP) — US Triple Crown hopeful Big Brown has received regularly monthly treatments of Winstrol, an anabolic steroid banned in 10 states but not any where Triple Crown horse races are contested.

On Friday, the eve of Kentucky Derby winner Big Brown's attempt to win the second leg of the treble here at the Preakness, the New York Daily News reported that trainer Rick Dutrow administers the steroid to all his horses.

"I give all my horses Winstrol on the 15th of every month," Dutrow told the newspaper. "If (authorities) say I can't use it anymore, I won't."

I just do not understand how a sport would allow this. Winstrol is a hardcore steroid, and not some over the counter or rub in type crap that athletes are getting banned for. For God's sake, one of the side effect of Winstrol is DEATH!

Injecting these horses with something that eventually will kill them is no better than what Michael Vick was doing with his dogs.

[Shkspr]

I hear the pony rides at Jose Canseco's pool parties ROCK.

[MrBug708]

I thought I heard a report that they didnt find any traces of steroids in the 8 bells blood stream?

[14ers]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I thought I heard a report that they didnt find any traces of steroids in the 8 bells blood stream?

That is what I remember reading about how they did not find any traces of illegal steroids in bells blood. But, since steroids like Winstrol are not illegal in the state where she was tested, they would probably not test for it.

Bells death has steroids written all over it now. If, these horses are given these monthly steroid injections all their lives you are going to end up with horses having underveloped joints.

[st.cronin]

Looking around the net, I'm not seeing any reporting other than variations of the unambiguous "no traces of steroids were detected in Eight Belles." It may be that they didn't test for Winstrol, but the statements being made don't seem to allow that possibility.

[weegeebored]

14ers,

Are you a sports fan in general or do you just hate horse racing? Why do I ask? Because if you're a sports fan you should be more concerned with the illegal activities going on in football (American and European), baseball, pro wrestling, hockey, tennis, track and field, high school sports... Need I go on?

Believe me, fans of horseracing (esp. handicappers like me) would prefer to see the sport cleaned up. The trainer of Big Brown is notorious for (allegedly) using things like snake venom to boost the performance of his horses. His nickname is Drug-trow if that's any indication of how people feel about him. It's hard to make a confident bet not knowing how many of the horses are juiced.

So I think the title of your thread is way over the top. Perhaps you are a closet tree-hugger?

[14ers]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

14ers,

Are you a sports fan in general or do you just hate horse racing? Why do I ask? Because if you're a sports fan you should be more concerned with the illegal activities going on in football (American and European), baseball, pro wrestling, hockey, tennis, track and field, high school sports... Need I go on?

Do you also bet on Dog Fighting?


After reading how much steroid use is going on in Horse racing, I don't think I will ever be able to go to another horse race again. It is a shame how other sports are bending over backwards to clean themselves up, while animal sports are allowed to run unchecked.

Eight Belles was never tested for Winstrol. All they did was run the normal post race tests on her.

[weegeebored]

First of all, "bending over backwards" is another overstatement on your part. It's the illusion that they are doing something that you're seeing not the actual accomplishment. When was the last time that you saw a major star suspended for [insert illegal drug here]? MLB didn't turn a blind eye to steroids when interest in baseball was dying and we had the McGuire/Sosa homerun battle???? If you believe that the powers-that-be didn't know then you are being naive.

And because I play the horses you assume that I bet on dog fights? Let me tell you what I will bet on: the number of asinine things that you will post in this thread. The over/under is 7. I'll take the over.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

14ers,

Are you a sports fan in general or do you just hate horse racing? Why do I ask? Because if you're a sports fan you should be more concerned with the illegal activities going on in football (American and European), baseball, pro wrestling, hockey, tennis, track and field, high school sports... Need I go on?

Believe me, fans of horseracing (esp. handicappers like me) would prefer to see the sport cleaned up. The trainer of Big Brown is notorious for (allegedly) using things like snake venom to boost the performance of his horses. His nickname is Drug-trow if that's any indication of how people feel about him. It's hard to make a confident bet not knowing how many of the horses are juiced.

So I think the title of your thread is way over the top. Perhaps you are a closet tree-hugger?

Defensive much?

All other 'professional' sports are being scrutinized over their drug use, it's all a work in progress but horse racing gets a free pass for some reason, but I don't think it will for much longer, and it's about time.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Injecting these horses with something that eventually will kill them is no better than what Michael Vick was doing with his dogs.

Is this hyperbole? Or are you serious about equating the two activities? Tell ya what, I'd rather be a race horse in my next life -- pretty much any race horse, small time or Triple Crown winner -- over any fighting dog.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I hear the pony rides at Jose Canseco's pool parties ROCK.

Don't ask Roger Clemens, he wasn't at the party.

[billethius]

Just because certain steroids aren't illegal in the sport doesn't mean that there's no drug testing. Furthermore, just because they're legal for use doesn't mean a horse can compete with the steroid in their system. Most states have rules relating to how long before a race certain medications are allowed to be given and that's definitely something that can be tested. Every horse that wins a race in this country is tested immediately after the race for all kinds of illegal substances. In addition, horses are tested 'randomly' out of each race - though in my experience it's hardly random. Tracks tend to test the barns they suspect are using something.

And in the end, I'm not sure that steroid use really matters. As long as trainers are administering something that isn't against the rules, it's not cheating, and steroids have plenty of physical benefits for horses besides building muscle mass - especially considering that horses can't take steroids and then go lift weights for several hours to build muscle. What it's more likely to do for a horse is decrease recovery time from races and minor injuries. In fact, my 2yo colt was just given a shot of Equipoise - testosterone basically - to try and help him fight off a case of viral pneumonia, as opposed to lifting weights and getting huge.

In the short-term, something like Winstrol could also cause testicle shrinkage - but given that a very large portion of male horses are geldings anyways, they don't have any testicles to shrink.

[billethius]

Also, the bigger problem with American racing has to do with the breeding industry - which, coincidently, is the part of the sport where steroids are most commonly used. The theory being, the bigger and better a horse looks before a sale, the more money it'll bring.

That, combined with the fact that we've been breeding purely for speed at the expense of durability in this country for the past few generations is something that I believe has contributed greatly to things like Eight Belles breaking down after the derby.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

14ers,

Are you a sports fan in general or do you just hate horse racing? Why do I ask? Because if you're a sports fan you should be more concerned with the illegal activities going on in football (American and European), baseball, pro wrestling, hockey, tennis, track and field, high school sports... Need I go on?

Believe me, fans of horseracing (esp. handicappers like me) would prefer to see the sport cleaned up. The trainer of Big Brown is notorious for (allegedly) using things like snake venom to boost the performance of his horses. His nickname is Drug-trow if that's any indication of how people feel about him. It's hard to make a confident bet not knowing how many of the horses are juiced.

So I think the title of your thread is way over the top. Perhaps you are a closet tree-hugger?

Big difference in the sports you mentioned and horse racing. Those guys are shooting themselve up on their own free will. These horses have no choice. Call me a tree hugger if you want, but this is animal abuse.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Looking around the net, I'm not seeing any reporting other than variations of the unambiguous "no traces of steroids were detected in Eight Belles." It may be that they didn't test for Winstrol, but the statements being made don't seem to allow that possibility.

I don't think they test for Winstrol.

The articles I read said all horses were tested for steroids and all horses tested negative for steroids after the race. We know that Big Brown was taking regular injections of Winstrol, so why would he test negative for it?


Is there any talk of adding an Astrick to Big Brown's name if he wins the Tripple Crown?

[billethius]

Originally Posted by Horizon

I don't think they test for Winstrol.

This wasn't a standard post-race test - this was a test done specifically for the various steroids because the trainer was under fire from various corners saying the filly broke her ankles because she was hoppped up on steroids.

Is there any talk of adding an Astrick to Big Brown's name if he wins the Tripple Crown?

The only asterisk that should possibly be added would be for a weak field, but we'll have to see how the rest of the horses perform throughout their careers before we can declare whether Big Brown was a great horse or merely a good horse who happened to come along in a weak year.

And as I stated before, these animals aren't getting injected and then spending all day at the gym to build muscle. They're being injected and then .... standing around in their stall except for about 20 minutes each day where they go out and jog around the track. Steroids in horses are used to aid recovery, and since they're not illegal, anyone can use them and thus the playing field is still level.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by billethius

Steroids in horses are used to aid recovery, and since they're not illegal, anyone can use them and thus the playing field is still level.

Yes, but previous Triple Crown winners did not have the advantage of being on steroids at the time.


Barry Bonds can say the same thing about his steroid use, since steroids were not illegal in baseball while he was using them.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Yes, but previous Triple Crown winners did not have the advantage of being on steroids at the time.

Previous Triple Crown winners, by the same token, did not have the disadvantage of facing competitors that had access to steroids.

I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

[Jas_lov]

I could care less as long as I'm entertained. Big Brown deserves the Triple Crown and I hope he wins it. There shouldn't be an asterisk for steroids since it is legal and there shouldn't be an asterisk for a weak field because a win is a win. And in this case, 3 wins. We might have history in the making and all people do is complain complain complain. Blah blah blah. I can't wait until Belmont!

[14ers]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I could care less as long as I'm entertained.

So you do not care that the Horse is being pumped full of drugs for your entertainment?



They are killing this animal just for your enjoyment. I hope you are happy.

[rkmsuf]

Ever take Lasix? When I did my penis was hard for 27 hours.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by 14ers

So you do not care that the Horse is being pumped full of drugs for your entertainment?

More to the point, I don't think anyone here gives a fuck about the mindless appeals to emotionalism that the twelve and a half minutes any of the trolls that are bitching about this today and didn't have a goddamned opinion on the subject four weeks ago have come up with on an issue that none of you are going to be even remotely concerned about in August.

[Lathum]

They could burn the horse at the stake on the track for all I care as long as I hit my trifecta

[rkmsuf]

I love all the outrage. It's acually humorous the line of thinking.

Sure, it's ok to beat the shit out of a horse with a whip but don't mention the S word.

I mean nevermind the thousands of horses languishing at the 4000 N1Y level. Let's save the outrage for the 10 million dollar horses that get better treatment than any other horses on the planet.

[chesapeake]

Anyone who thinks that the high instance of fatalities in American horse racing is unrelated to the prevalance of drug use inthe sport is fooling themselves. Sure, it's not the only reason. But it is a big one.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Anyone who thinks that the high instance of fatalities in American horse racing is unrelated to the prevalance of drug use inthe sport is fooling themselves. Sure, it's not the only reason. But it is a big one.

High as opposed to what? Europe? Other eras of racing? Where is this data?


I mean horses dissappear on a routine basis or get dragged off the track at Suffolk Downs all the time. It's a way of life that dates back to the 50s.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by 14ers

So you do not care that the Horse is being pumped full of drugs for your entertainment?



They are killing this animal just for your enjoyment. I hope you are happy.

If you have a link to some research that shows Winstrol kills horses, I'd be interested in reading it. Of the 4 types of steroids most often used on horses, Winstrol is the only one that isn't produced by their bodies naturally, so presumably it'd be the one that kills them.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

High as opposed to what? Europe? Other eras of racing? Where is this data?

Most other countries have much tighter restrictions on medications, though I believe there are also a few where they take an 'anything goes' attitude. Germany, for example, doesn't allow lasix to be used during races. They believe that it weakens the gene pool as horses become dependant on it to keep them from bleeding during a race. Furthermore, if a nice horse from Germany comes over here for a big race and uses lasix, he won't be allowed to stand at stud upon going back to Germany. There was a horse a few years ago who came over here and won the Arlington Million and did so without the aid of lasix.

[Butter]

One step closer to the All-Drug Olympics.

Oh, he's pulled his arms off!

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I mean horses dissappear on a routine basis or get dragged off the track at Suffolk Downs all the time. It's a way of life that dates back to the 50s.

I think this gets at where we respectfully disagree. My contention is that your own observation -- horses die and disappear routinely -- is a bad thing. Especially since we have bred these horses simply for our own amusement.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

I think this gets at where we respectfully disagree. My contention is that your own observation -- horses die and disappear routinely -- is a bad thing. Especially since we have bred these horses simply for our own amusement.

I think he's saying that blaming it on drugs is silly since its been going on for quite a while. There is just more media coverage of it nowadays, but, really, it was probably worse in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Just read the descriptions of the lesser races in "Seabiscuit".

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think he's saying that blaming it on drugs is silly since its been going on for quite a while. There is just more media coverage of it nowadays, but, really, it was probably worse in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Just read the descriptions of the lesser races in "Seabiscuit".

right

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think he's saying that blaming it on drugs is silly since its been going on for quite a while. There is just more media coverage of it nowadays, but, really, it was probably worse in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Just read the descriptions of the lesser races in "Seabiscuit".

Probably right, and I disagree with a lot of what the original poster has said.

However, it makes me uncomfortable to put animals in this kind of position where we are breeding them, endangering them, and ultimately killing them for our recreational pursuits.

I actually enjoy placing a bet or ten on the horses, but am certainly conflicted as to whether or not it's right to put them in that position when it seems that death is a constant, real possibility for these animals.

It's a complicated situation, in my opinion.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Anyone who thinks that the high instance of fatalities in American horse racing is unrelated to the prevalance of drug use inthe sport is fooling themselves. Sure, it's not the only reason. But it is a big one.

I'd argue that the specific use of steroids isn't the problem. Rather, the weakening of the breed over the past half century thanks to the American thoroughbred being bred purely for speed - along with other breeding practices I've chronicled elsewhere on this board - combined with the use of medications that create genetic dependencies (bute, lasix, etc..) has done far more damage than something like Winstrol.

On the other hand, plenty of improvements have also been made. Better diagnostic equipment and practices allow trainers to catch injuries earlier and prevent many breakdowns that previously would have gone unnoticed. Theraputic medication has advanced that allows horses to recover from problems that previously would have led to death.

[Anthony]

how do people have room for all of these concerns? they aren't fighting horses like Mike Vick did with dogs. the horses are doing what they were bred to do. i just think its silly to inject steroids into horses - if everyone is doing it doesn't it negate the effect? steroids are only useful if you are one of the few that are using them. whether all the horses are on steroids or all aren't, the effect is then the same - it comes down to the horse's genetics. so if that's ultimately the final factor, might as well not drug the horses.

but of all the things to worry about in this world, injecting steroids into horses is not even on my list. hard for me to feel bad about a horse, where if it wins even one out of 3 Triple Crown races - will spend the rest of its life getting more pussy than its cock can handle. yeah, my heart really goes out to the poor, poor animals.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

More to the point, I don't think anyone here gives a fuck about the mindless appeals to emotionalism that the twelve and a half minutes any of the trolls that are bitching about this today and didn't have a goddamned opinion on the subject four weeks ago have come up with on an issue that none of you are going to be even remotely concerned about in August.

I cannot agree more. Even though I admitted that the horse racing industry needs to clean up it's act my posts still came under attack from some as if I was supporting illegal drug use. Apparently there is too much of a knee-jerk reaction from the general public because the twice a year casual fan is upset that they saw Barbaro and Eight Belles go through what they did. Hell, I'm a huge racing fan and I was upset! But as someone mentioned, horses break down all of the time just not on national tv. It's a part of racing. Nobody likes it. But, should the sport be banned as some contend? I don't think so. But if you want to argue to that extreme than you better become a vegan because I'll extend those kinds of arguments to their (il)logical conclusion.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by billethius

I'd argue that the specific use of steroids isn't the problem. Rather, the weakening of the breed over the past half century thanks to the American thoroughbred being bred purely for speed - along with other breeding practices I've chronicled elsewhere on this board - combined with the use of medications that create genetic dependencies (bute, lasix, etc..) has done far more damage than something like Winstrol.

On the other hand, plenty of improvements have also been made. Better diagnostic equipment and practices allow trainers to catch injuries earlier and prevent many breakdowns that previously would have gone unnoticed. Theraputic medication has advanced that allows horses to recover from problems that previously would have led to death.

I'll preface this post by saying that I don't know a whole lot about horse racing or horses in general. But I do have a strong background in animal genetics, and I am in charge of genetic matings of 700 dairy cattle. I believe this post is spot on.

I can't speak for horses, like I said before, but in dairy cattle we've seen a lot of problems arise in the past 10-15 years due to breeding philosophies that fit only specific desires of the humans making selections. Inbreeding has run rampant.

Anytime humans are making decisions on how to mate animals, they are making the decisions to fit their purposes. In the case of these race horses, they focused on speed but seem to have neglected other aspects.

I am curious, how much inbreeding goes on with these race horses?

It's too bad that humans outside of West Virginia have figured out that inbreeding doesn't work amongst ourselves yet continue to do so with our animals. In the case of my cattle, selection for insane amounts of milk production has been the norm, but now I've hit the emergency brakes on that theory and my philosophy is now centered on survivability. It'd probably be hard to back off selecting for speed in horse racing, but I think it's clear that they could use a little more genetic diversity.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by lungs

I'll preface this post by saying that I don't know a whole lot about horse racing or horses in general. But I do have a strong background in animal genetics, and I am in charge of genetic matings of 700 dairy cattle. I believe this post is spot on.

I can't speak for horses, like I said before, but in dairy cattle we've seen a lot of problems arise in the past 10-15 years due to breeding philosophies that fit only specific desires of the humans making selections. Inbreeding has run rampant.

Anytime humans are making decisions on how to mate animals, they are making the decisions to fit their purposes. In the case of these race horses, they focused on speed but seem to have neglected other aspects.

I am curious, how much inbreeding goes on with these race horses?

It's too bad that humans outside of West Virginia have figured out that inbreeding doesn't work amongst ourselves yet continue to do so with our animals. In the case of my cattle, selection for insane amounts of milk production has been the norm, but now I've hit the emergency brakes on that theory and my philosophy is now centered on survivability. It'd probably be hard to back off selecting for speed in horse racing, but I think it's clear that they could use a little more genetic diversity.

Inbreeding is fairly common but it's always several generations back - so you'll see a horse who's father's father is Northern Dancer (for example) and then you'll also see Northern Dancer somewhere on the mother's side. In fact it's often considered beneficial as far as racing ability is concerned while apparently ignoring the potential genetic issues it could cause.

Edit: Or, at least, it was fairly common about a decade ago which would have been the last time I really looked into it. Breeders may have decided to move away from that practice since then.

Edit again: In fact, here's the pedigree of Big Brown (pdf file). Note that he has Northern Dancer on both sides.