Ping: IT Folks Re: MS Certifications

[Neuqua]

Recently I was "accepted" into a Microsoft certificate program and since it happened all suddenly, I question whether it really is something I want to dive into or not. Obviously the people I speak to from their side are only telling me the positives so I take what they say with a grain of salt. I am someone who hates to be idle and always likes to feel like he's being productive at all times. As some of you may know I already am running a business but the time specifics of this program fit reasonably well into my schedule.

Anyways, at the completion of the program, I would have earned a MCTS, MCP, and a MCSA certificate. My question is, are these particular certificates worth any money in the field? Especially for a guy who has ZERO previous experience in the IT field? Fwiw, being licensed by Microsoft, they are required to have a job placement rate of 70% within 90 days of graduation. I sat in on a class and most people there seemed to be in their 30s-40s looking for a career change. I say maybe 2-3 people in the class size of 18 that were around my age (24).

The "program" is certainly not cheap and so I need to know if this investment is worth it or not.

When presented with the opportunity, this was the first place I sought to get advice from because I know we have a few IT folks in the house.

Any input would be appreciated.

[RendeR]

Having the certifications can't hurt your chances.

Having no experience will.

From that standpoint, if you can get them? why not hav them? They look great on a resume.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by RendeR

From that standpoint, if you can get them? why not hav them? They look great on a resume.

Well I am just trying to figure out if it is worth the hefty monetary investment (~$20,000) or if I am better off exploring other options.

[RendeR]

If you plan to USE them and I mean working/being nads deep in MS enterprise servers and other software/hardware designed by microblow, then yes, its worth it.

if you're not, or aren't sure what you'll need you might want to just wait on it.

[jeff061]

If you are not in IT at all right now or are at a very low level it may be worth it. Though you may be better getting a cheaper easier MS cert to open the door and working your way up. Otherwise.....

I recently got my VCP(VMWare Certified Professional). It's a lot easier and the demand for virtualization knowledge is sky high right now. Nearly every windows admin job out there looks for VM knowledge.

I'm an MS guy who just finished looking for and finding a job, in my opinion my VCP helped me far more than a Microsoft cert would have, there are just a lot of non-certified but knowledgeable MS guys out there with enough experience to back it. Not at all with VM.

Also, just as importantly. It's 3k for the class(required) and then around $200 for a single medium difficult test. The MCSE is a major undertaking with not much more gain.

Now's the time to learn some VM, pretty soon everyone will be an expert.


BTW: I've spent about 4 years consulting mostly on MS products and another 4 as a NT admin. I've been around these circles some.

[sterlingice]

Oof. That's some hefty dough so they'd better be really good classes. I've been poking my head around a couple of those lately and if you just go the "buy a book and take the test route", it's a mere fraction of the cost. For instance, an MCSE in 2003 is "only" $875 for all of the tests.

SI

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I've been poking my head around a couple of those lately and if you just go the "buy a book and take the test route", it's a mere fraction of the cost. For instance, an MCSE in 2003 is "only" $875 for all of the tests.

SI

Yep, but you won't go far if you have little experience and set expectations to high. You learn a lot more from the course.

[jeff061]

Also, for what it's worth. Where I am(granted Boston) you could probably walk in at 45-50k with an MCSE + courses and hold your own. Probably more, but you'd be risking being in over your head.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Yep, but you won't go far if you have little experience and set expectations to high. You learn a lot more from the course.

True. I suppose I was poking around since I've been in that environment for a while and there's not much of a point to spending that kind of cash on a class.

SI

[adubroff]

I have one certifcation. I did the self teach, then certify route. I have a buddy who has a boat load of certificatiosn. He does consulting and it's worth some to him both in terms of locating business and pricing for microsoft products (that he installs/resells). He does some consulting and for him I think they are worth it. If you are looking for work in a consulting environment, they will likely like that you have certifications, they like to brag about the number of certified people they have on staff, so getting somebody with certifications is good in that arena.

For in house IT the little interviewing I've done in my life, it hasn't mattered much. In my experience, people will sometimes ask about it but it's not valuable in lieu of experience....but I have to admit the route I took in my career was not very standard and your experience may be different.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

True. I suppose I was poking around since I've been in that environment for a while and there's not much of a point to spending that kind of cash on a class.

SI

I think I'm going to go for my MCSE next year and I'm not going for a class either. But I also really have nothing more to learn, it's just resume fodder and financial incentive.

[jeff061]

He does some consulting and for him I think they are worth it. If you are looking for work in a consulting environment, they will likely like that you have certifications, they like to brag about the number of certified people they have on staff, so getting somebody with certifications is good in that arena.

Not only that, but a lot of consulting companies get their projects straight from HP, MS, VMWare, ect. That's their bread and butter and you only get that kind of relationship with a heavily certified staff.

So yeah, for that reason and other mentioned ones, certs are HUGE in consulting.

[PackerFanatic]

Definitely huge in consulting, as others said, and good resume fodder, but they don't mean a whole lot if you don't have the experience. They cost a lot too so make sure it is worth it.

[weegeebored]

A lot of IT job listings will either list that MCSE, A+, MCP, etc. are required or at least preferred. It is getting to the point that having certs is like having a Bachelor's degree -- pretty much mandatory.

I noticed that you are from Naperville. Is the training center Productivity Point or Global Knowledge? I ask because they are pretty expensive schools.

Also, don't be fooled into believing that you will get a Windows admin job with just the certs and no experience. Most likely you will do phone/desktop support to start.

And if you are going to spend 20k they better guarantee you a job. There are others schools out there that are cheaper.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

A lot of IT job listings will either list that MCSE, A+, MCP, etc. are required or at least preferred. It is getting to the point that having certs is like having a Bachelor's degree -- pretty much mandatory.

I noticed that you are from Naperville. Is the training center Productivity Point or Global Knowledge? I ask because they are pretty expensive schools.

Also, don't be fooled into believing that you will get a Windows admin job with just the certs and no experience. Most likely you will do phone/desktop support to start.

And if you are going to spend 20k they better guarantee you a job. There are others schools out there that are cheaper.

I suppose it depends where you are looking and what types of jobs. I would imagine more hardware/networking type jobs might ask for them, but none of the programming jobs I looked at out of college (in Wisconsin) mentioned them at all.

[jeff061]

A lot of IT job listings will either list that MCSE, A+, MCP, etc. are required or at least preferred. It is getting to the point that having certs is like having a Bachelor's degree -- pretty much mandatory.

Only entry level. Otherwise, totally disagree. They can help justify more pay, but I made it far into my career, easily, without having one. The other two top guys in the place I just left, zero certs and no college. Ironically the lower tier guys pretty much all went through college, one had a few network certs. Most listings that say it's required will look the other way in a heartbeat.

The job I just got required a college degree, but I still got the job without one. Unless they have a specific need for a cert(like those reasons listed for consulting) experience trumps all, college as well.

Also, don't be fooled into believing that you will get a Windows admin job with just the certs and no experience. Most likely you will do phone/desktop support to start.

A good interviewer can net a junior job in the right spot. Namely patient management and a solid senior guy.

[hoopsguy]

The certs you are looking at are the entry level certs for Microsoft. MCTS and MCP are one-test certifications, while the MCSA is a multi-test program but is considered the "little brother" to the MCSE certification.

This link has a lot of info on the MS certification programs:
Microsoft Certifications Overview: Get the rewards, respect, and recognition you deserve

The Master and Architect stuff is way beyond what you would want to consider when getting started in the industry. The Master program costs $20K on its own and assumes a ton of knowledge on the subject. The Architect program has an expectation of 15+ years of both broad and deep industry experience. Probably 1% of 1% of certified MS professionals are actively pursuing those credentials.

What MCP and MCTS programs are they planning to have you complete? This would help with providing feedback. As Jeff has pointed out, some technologies are more worthwhile on the resume than others.

For the MCSA program, do they include a specialization? There are two: messaging and security. Both the core OS (Windows 2003, no 2008 yet) and the specializations require a total of four exams. The only difference is the "elective" exam.

I agree with the comments by others that taking this class in a vacuum - no experience, no job lined up - doesn't seem like a good use of money. But if you are looking to get into the field and they will place you with an initial opportunity then this sounds a little more appealing.

[Daimyo]

$20k is way too much. I can't imagine getting enough return on that investment.

Basically those certs plus no experience will qualify you for an entry level position. Problem is entry level positions can generate a hundred resumes and at least 20% of them will be the same boat as you so you still need to distinguish yourself in other ways.

You'd probably be better off being the one guy who bothers to write a great cover letter explaining your interest in IT and what you've done up until now to demonstrate it.