2016-17 NFL Coaching Carousel/ Offseason Thread

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by AlexB

So there's no difference in the cap hit, its "just" literally that the Texans are off the hook for the $16m guaranteed part of the contract?

I believe that the cap hit IS different. In a contract without any future guaranteed salary the cap hit between a trade and cut would be the same, as it would just be the remaining unaccounted for bonus moneys. But in this case, cutting the player and cancelling the contract would accelerate the $10MM 'guaranteed salary' part of the contract to ALSO counted against the Texans cap, but with a trade that contract is still alive and so the Browns assume the years/costs with remaining guaranteed salaries.

[CrescentMoonie]

Terrell McClain and Stacy McGee in FA so far. Andre Holmes may be next. Jackson, Garcon, and Baker all gone without getting offers from the team. Cousins went to Snyder personally to ask for a trade since they're not close on a long term deal.

I may be a Deadskins fan again.

[Suicane75]

Really liking the Eagles moves. Smith & Jeffrey can stretch the field and open some things up for the rest of the offense.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Zeitler gets 60/5 with half guaranteed. Makes sense that Bengals did not match. Probably be a 3rd round compensatory pick off that.

I have no problem if they manage to somehow field a decent offensive line this year.. But I certainly don't expect they will. Scary how thin and bad the line looks now.

What's frustrating is that now the top of the draft won't be used to fill last year's holes, but will have to be used to fix this year's holes. The Bengals have a lot of good players, but they just keep running in place.

[AlexB]

Thanks Jon & CrescentMoonie & thesloppy - I don't recall seeing anything like this before in the NFL, so was slightly confused!

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What's frustrating is that now the top of the draft won't be used to fill last year's holes, but will have to be used to fix this year's holes. The Bengals have a lot of good players, but they just keep running in place.

2015 was their best team, if Dalton didn't go down that was probably their best shot at a Super Bowl run.. Now they need to find a way to put together an offensive line.

If they can get a line together that performs better as a whole than last years line, they can win 10 games. If not, I think they might win 6.

I'm kind of excited to see the draft used for players that can play now, it would be nice to see the team play some rookies for a change.

[thesloppy]

Now the rumor is that the Browns will straight cut Osweiller, or try to pay someone slightly less than they got in order to trade him again. Nice job on that contract, Houston!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

2015 was their best team, if Dalton didn't go down that was probably their best shot at a Super Bowl run.. Now they need to find a way to put together an offensive line.

If they can get a line together that performs better as a whole than last years line, they can win 10 games. If not, I think they might win 6.

I'm kind of excited to see the draft used for players that can play now, it would be nice to see the team play some rookies for a change.

The unwillingness to ever play for now keeps the Bengals from getting anywhere. Rather than go all in, they let a few important players leave every year and rely on the draft to eventually fill those holes. Long term that's kept them competitive, but every year they aren't quite good enough. Last year they needed to upgrade the LBs, but they let their 2 and 3 receiver walk as well as a Pro Bowl S, so they didn't have enough depth/picks to fill all the holes. This year they need more pass rush, better LBs and receiver upgrades, and now two tackles and a guard.

Some of this is just how the NFL works, players that are good demand more money until a team can't pay all of them, but the Bengals compound that problem by refusing to work the cap so that they can go all in for any single year.

[JPhillips]

dola

I'm not sold on the moves made by the Browns. They're good enough to be around pick ten next year, and by then the top QBs will be gone. All of these picks and FA signings will be a disappointment if they can't get better at QB.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

I'm not sold on the moves made by the Browns. They're good enough to be around pick ten next year, and by then the top QBs will be gone. All of these picks and FA signings will be a disappointment if they can't get better at QB.

In between all this other stuff, I keep hearing that the Browns are still interested in trading for Garoppolo, for whatever that's worth. Seems like an awful lot of time, effort and money spent to gamble on a dude with two starts.

[CrescentMoonie]

Kessler put up a 92.3 QB rating last year while surrounded by crap. Also had 6 TD and 2 INT. It's not much to work off of, but worth trying for a year behind a better OL and then use the extra pick from the Osweiler trade to move up for a QB next year if they need to.

[bronconick]

Off of Cleveland twitter-

Andrew Bogut: No one’s had a shorter career in Cleveland than me

Brock Osweiler: Hold my beer

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Off of Cleveland twitter-

Andrew Bogut: No one’s had a shorter career in Cleveland than me

Brock Osweiler: Hold my beer

The Browns' Twitter had that? Haha.

[wustin]

There was an NBA player who got traded 4 times in 6 days.

[miami_fan]

The Redskins now have a GM opening.

Wonder who they will pick up in FA to fill the hole.

[thesloppy]

GOTdamn Scott McCloughan has a big old red face.

[CrescentMoonie]

The worst part if they're blaming his alcohol issues, and unnamed team sources are saying he had multiple relapses in DC, but several players have said that they never observed any problems.

Snyder and Allen can't die soon enough.

[JPhillips]

If Jerry is doing his best to fuck the Texans, I heartily approve.

[stevew]

I think it's legal for the Browns to call around and see if anyone wants Brock for a 2-3M hit next year, and maybe trade a 4th to the Browns for a 6th and Brock? Browns just eat the 14M? Also there's probably set off language in the deal so if the Browns straight up cut him they'll get some sort of 2018 credit for whatever he can get this year?

[Arles]

Doesn't sound like the Packers are going to resign Cook or Lang (after already losing Tretter and Hyde). Packer fans under Ted Thompson have always learned to just ignore the first month of FA and be ready for 3rd and 5th round picks to be starting for lost FAs in 5 months. It's a shame what Ted is doing to Aaron's prime by never adding players via FA or trade...

[SteveM58]

Originally Posted by Arles

Doesn't sound like the Packers are going to resign Cook or Lang (after already losing Tretter and Hyde). Packer fans under Ted Thompson have always learned to just ignore the first month of FA and be ready for 3rd and 5th round picks to be starting for lost FAs in 5 months. It's a shame what Ted is doing to Aaron's prime by never adding players via FA or trade...

I don't follow the Packers closely but offhand I recall Julius Peppers just a few years ago. Seems to me they try to spend big at key positions (whether FA or drafted) and be economical at others.

Its a good strategy but you do have hit on your drafts and develop guys quickly and well.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

2015 was their best team, if Dalton didn't go down that was probably their best shot at a Super Bowl run.. Now they need to find a way to put together an offensive line.

Yeah, baby, Winston's back! We goin' to the Bowl!

[thesloppy]

Kirk Cousins now saying he won't sign any deal that comes from Bruce Allen's hands. Thank you for the entertainment, Washington.

[CrescentMoonie]

I love that Cousins signed the franchise tender then immediately said no long term deal as long as Allen is still employed. Ricky Jean Francois was on local radio yesterday saying he doesn't trust the front office now with Scot gone. Rumors are that Chris Baker left entirely because of Bruce Allen/Dan Snyder. The dumpster fire continues.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SteveM58

I don't follow the Packers closely but offhand I recall Julius Peppers just a few years ago. Seems to me they try to spend big at key positions (whether FA or drafted) and be economical at others.

Its a good strategy but you do have hit on your drafts and develop guys quickly and well.

In the last 4 years, they've signed Peppers and Jared Cook. Both were cut by other teams and not subject to the FA compensation system. In the same period, they've lost the following just on defense: DT BJ Raji, LB Mike Neal, LB AJ Hawk, LB Brad Jones, LB Julius Peppers, LB Sam Barrington, CB Tramon Williams, CB Sam Shields, CB/S Micah Hyde, CB Devon House and CB Casey Hayward. Even if you hit on most of your draft picks, that's a ton of defensive talent out the door with no real replacements. Last season, the CB crew was a dumpster fire because Thompson let Williams, House and Hayward go, Shields got hurt and his draft picks (Randall and Rollins) didn't pan out. Had Thompson just traded for a guy like Eric Rowe or Marcus Cooper in camp or signed one of the many FA CBs (including GBs own Casey Hayward), this team may have made the Super Bowl. But, in the past four seasons, he's signed 0 pro FAs (UFA or RFA) and made 0 trades (outside the Knile Davis one he reversed after a week last season). He's also gone about 40% on draft picks. Not much margin of error. His strategy worked great when he was hitting draft picks at around 60%, but you get under 50% and there's a massive talent drain - hence GB's current situation. To just refuse to sign UFAs or make trades for pro players seems extremely short sighted. Look at all the trades/UFAs the successful teams like New England, Denver, Atlanta and Seattle have made over the past 4 years.

[stevew]

Hard to believe Desean Jackson is just 30. Feel like he's been playing for 10 years already.

[CrescentMoonie]

Raji is out of the league.
Mike Neal is out of the league.
AJ Hawk had 24 tackles for Cincy last year.
Brad Jones is out of the league.
Peppers can still go at 37.
Sam Barrington made two appearances, recording zero stats, with KC before being waived and claimed by NO without an appearance.

That's not a ton of defensive talent out the door. That's a bunch of mostly bad defensive players that didn't get a second contract.

[Arles]

The problem is that Raji, Neal, Hawk, Peppers, Barrington, Shields, Hayward, Williams, Hyde and House all had very good seasons for GB at one point. Yet, when they either left or were no longer "good", the Packers didn't replace that prior talent level - esp at CB. It's OK to try to replace using the draft, but it's also not a bad idea to use trades and FA to supplement. They drafted Perry and Clinton-Dix (good picks), but they also drafted Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins and Jake Ryan who haven't panned out. So, a smart move would be to use trades/FA to cover for those misses. Instead, Thompson just doubles down on the draft and then has to not only replace the guys who leave (Sitton, Peppers, Hayward, Shields, Hyde, ..) - but also pickup replacements for his missed picks (CB Randall, CB Rollins, LB Ryan, DT Khyri Thornton, LB Carl Bradford - all top 4 picks that haven't panned out). There just aren't enough legit chances to replace all that just in the draft. That's why we had 6 undrafted FAs make the roster at CB/S and the talent level is crap there.

[CrescentMoonie]

Mike Mayock emerges as candidate for Washington Redskins GM job

Kill me now. We finally look like 25 years of incompetence and irrelevance are over and Danny Boy and the son of the guy who did a good job here 40+ years ago are determined to ruin it.

[Thomkal]

Cleveland lets RGIII go. Kinda feel bad for him-injury prevented him from being 100% I think. Wonder if he will get another chance now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Cleveland lets RGIII go. Kinda feel bad for him-injury prevented him from being 100% I think. Wonder if he will get another chance now.

He doesn't watch film, his teammates named him RGMe, and he never learned how to slide. He's physically talented, but he's been so spoiled that he will likely never work hard enough on anything other than his brand to be any good.

I can't feel sorry for someone who alienates everyone who plays with him and dumps his pregnant wife via Instagram post.

[Thomkal]

Karlos Dansby is back with the Cardinals on a one year deal. Maybe he just should have stayed?

[NobodyHere]

Saints trading Brandin Cooks to Patriots for No. 32 pick - NFL.com

I guess it makes sense to trade a late 1st rounder for a proven commodity.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Arles

The problem is that Raji, Neal, Hawk, Peppers, Barrington, Shields, Hayward, Williams, Hyde and House all had very good seasons for GB at one point. Yet, when they either left or were no longer "good", the Packers didn't replace that prior talent level - esp at CB. It's OK to try to replace using the draft, but it's also not a bad idea to use trades and FA to supplement. They drafted Perry and Clinton-Dix (good picks), but they also drafted Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins and Jake Ryan who haven't panned out. So, a smart move would be to use trades/FA to cover for those misses. Instead, Thompson just doubles down on the draft and then has to not only replace the guys who leave (Sitton, Peppers, Hayward, Shields, Hyde, ..) - but also pickup replacements for his missed picks (CB Randall, CB Rollins, LB Ryan, DT Khyri Thornton, LB Carl Bradford - all top 4 picks that haven't panned out). There just aren't enough legit chances to replace all that just in the draft. That's why we had 6 undrafted FAs make the roster at CB/S and the talent level is crap there.

Let me give you a good example. Take Davon House. We signed him for the Jags, and started him. His first year starting at CB he set the mark for most passes defensed in a season for a Jaguars player. Last year he was spotty, and lost his starting gig to Prince Amuakamara, and of corse studman CB Jalen Ramsey and younger guy Aaron Colvin has developed nicely into a nickel CB so we just let him go after a couple of years, but they guy had talent.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Saints trading Brandin Cooks to Patriots for No. 32 pick - NFL.com

I guess it makes sense to trade a late 1st rounder for a proven commodity.

Actually Saints traded Cook and their 4th Rounder for the Pats 1st and 3rd rounders.

[Arles]

Looks like the Pack signed Martellus Bennett to a 3-year deal for between $18 and $21 mil (two differing numbers on twitter). It marks the first UFA that GB has signed since 2012. I like the signing, but we still need to sign Lang and some CBs. I guess they offered Cook more and he passed - we will see what he ends up getting. But given track record and injury history, I like Bennett a little better.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

Looks like the Pack signed Martellus Bennett to a 3-year deal for between $18 and $21 mil (two differing numbers on twitter). It marks the first UFA that GB has signed since 2012. I like the signing, but we still need to sign Lang and some CBs. I guess they offered Cook more and he passed - we will see what he ends up getting. But given track record and injury history, I like Bennett a little better.

Cook is terrible. Unless you like overpaying a ton for a guy who shows up for at best a sixth of the games he actually plays. That guy has been riding his unearned "rep" for so long, his rep should be charging him like an Uber.

Bennett is a much better and more consistent player. Good move for the Pack.

[cubboyroy1826]

And unfortunately Bennett can disappear at times just like Cook. Trust me having watched him with the Bears he had multiple head scratching games where you wondered if he was hurt. Not to mention last year with the Patriots there were a couple games where he was the number one tight end and should have had a huge game and produced one catch.

[TroyF]

The Packers are an interesting way to go. They have a true franchse QB and yet every year it seems like the same refrain. They suck for a month or two, find their groove and head to the playoffs only to be beat on the road.

I don't necessarily think the way to go is by signing every FA out there. (How many April titles has Jacksonville won now?) I do think you can add a star or two through FA to shore up spots on your defense. I look at Steward, Ward, Emmanuale Sanders. . . and I think of how much those guys would have helped the Packers. They didn't get ridiculous deals at the time they signed their contracts either.

Sanders, for example, signed a 3 year 15 million dollar deal with 6 million locked in. That's for a 26 year old WR who could have fit with Rodgers incredibly well. Imagine that team with Sanders the last three years? Free agency is not the end all be all of life, but to ignore it and not even go after value that can help your team is insane to me.

One last note: The Packers have 8 draft picks and over 4.2 million in dead money. The Broncos have 10 draft picks and only 70,000 in dead money for 2017. (I'm not going to get into cap space, because the Broncos do not have a franchise QB) There is a way to let people go, manage your cap situation and bring in pieces to help your franchise.

[SteveM58]

Packers of recent seasons are reminding me of the Dolphins in the latter part of Marino. Good overall, very good at times and a SB threat, but never quite getting there.

I definitely understand the frustration at not bringing in viable free agents. Until last year, I had the same feeling as a Giants fan.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

And unfortunately Bennett can disappear at times just like Cook. Trust me having watched him with the Bears he had multiple head scratching games where you wondered if he was hurt. Not to mention last year with the Patriots there were a couple games where he was the number one tight end and should have had a huge game and produced one catch.

Bennett was great for us. Had a weird tendency to never get any YAC, but his low yardage total games were gameplay oriented & he was used as a blocker there. Guy isn't Antonio Gates or Jimmy Graham, but he's a really good all-around TE if his head's on straight, which it was in NE.

It's cutting against type for sure, but hard not to love the Pats moves IF we can re-sign Hightower. I obviously want Butler back too, but I think we might secretly be hoping some team like the Dolphins signs him away & we essentially upgrade our 1st round pick from 32 to higher. (PS since we give up our highest 4th round pick we could actually trade down 10 spots from that Saints pick at 118 for an equivalent move up in like the 5th round at zero cost to us...) And I still think it makes too much sense to trade Jimmy Garrappolo & we're driving up the price for Cleveland or Houston (less likely as a pseudo-contender) but he is still cheap this year & we can just trade his rights next offseason if Brady is still not slowing down.

I don't even understand why teams make trades like the Dwayne Allen & Kony Ealy ones with us. Ealy especially we get him cheap for a year & probably a comp pick just for moving down from 64 to 72, which isn't that big a deal predraft. It's kind of insane how little dead $$$ & long term bonus commitments we have on our cap due to all these trades for competent depth pieces we keep making. Heck, we're paying Danny Amendola more than Edelman, Cooks & Malcolm Mitchell combined & could cut him for another $8m in cap space at this point if we needed it. (Which is why it makes so much sense to re-sign Hightower at whatever number he can find on the market - unless Belichick just wants to play with house rules & see how many castoffs & low round draft picks he can win with.)

[cubboyroy1826]

Trust me in Bill We Trust. Win a Super Bowl and do everything you can to continue to improve. Wish we had Bill coaching in Chicago. Be nice if Brady came along with him.

[Arles]

Packers signed TE Lance Kendricks. Looks like they will try to bring back another Rams TE from the dead.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

Trust me in Bill We Trust. Win a Super Bowl and do everything you can to continue to improve. Wish we had Bill coaching in Chicago. Be nice if Brady came along with him.

Ryan Pace seems to be doing a decent job, though nothing matters until QB is figured out. Jimmy G's probably available for the low, low price of the #3 overall pick... though if DeShaun Watson is available at 3 I think that's a pretty good gamble too.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ryan Pace seems to be doing a decent job, though nothing matters until QB is figured out. Jimmy G's probably available for the low, low price of the #3 overall pick... though if DeShaun Watson is available at 3 I think that's a pretty good gamble too.

Pace has done a really good job in the draft and free agency. My concern is if the QB position isn't figured out with Glennon then the McCaskeys will clean house again and the Bears are back where they were.

Fox isn't the best coach out there, but he's good enough and has put together a solid coaching staff. The OLine is pretty good, the front seven was actually excellent last year, but the secondary was god awful and there's the obvious issue at QB.

[Atocep]

Dola

On the subject of Garoppolo, I don't get why teams sit on backups. I hit on this earlier in this thread (I think), but a good backup is rather pointless in today's NFL. There's so much importance on the QB position that if you don't have a top 10-15 guy then you aren't going far. Unless they truly believe Garoppolo is the guy when Brady retires then you'd think it's best to get what draft picks you can for him and draft the next guy people will overrated because he backed up Tom Brady.

[CrescentMoonie]

I would say backup QB is the 3rd or 4th most important position on offense (QB, LT, C/QB2). Just look at Dallas 2015 vs Dallas 2016. That's why, if you think you've got a good one, you sit on a backup unless there's a huge offer for him. I'm very happy with Colt McCoy as a backup instead of someone like John Beck.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I would say backup QB is the 3rd or 4th most important position on offense (QB, LT, C/QB2). Just look at Dallas 2015 vs Dallas 2016. That's why, if you think you've got a good one, you sit on a backup unless there's a huge offer for him. I'm very happy with Colt McCoy as a backup instead of someone like John Beck.

If you have a top 10ish QB then you're essentially spending millions on an insurance policy that you're unlikely to use and if you do it's going to make a minimal impact on your chances.

How many teams have specifically gone out and spent good money on a backup QB and had it pay off? The most successful backups tend to be drafted players that haven't had their chance yet or guys that randomly play above their ability level for a short time.

[Atocep]

Sounds like Sydney Jones ruptured his achillies at the UW pro day.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If you have a top 10ish QB then you're essentially spending millions on an insurance policy that you're unlikely to use and if you do it's going to make a minimal impact on your chances.

How many teams have specifically gone out and spent good money on a backup QB and had it pay off? The most successful backups tend to be drafted players that haven't had their chance yet or guys that randomly play above their ability level for a short time.

Yep. It's not that you don't want a good one, but it's worth the percentage of the cap it'd take once they're off their rookie contract, or passing up the draft capital you can use for other spots.

Rex Burkhead to the Pats. We all should've seen that one coming.