Alright boyz, it's the BBCF First Impressions thread.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by nfg22

I like the game but a few probs....

1. Some games I have lost even though I outmatched the other team by a significant amount.
2. I have 10 starters out, two with skull fractures and one with a broken jaw and this is ridiculous.
3. My starting RB has been out for 6 weeks due to grades, I have pumped 10 hall hours into him and am getting nothing...

Maybe bad luck but just a few nuances...

Is the RB named Maurice Clarett?

[sovereignstar]

Hold the phone. You mean you were upset?

[Icy]

Damn i missed the release. I'm on holidays in the Canary Islands and the hotel wifi connection is having problems, that is why i haven't released the updated DB. Today has been the first day i could connect to try to download the final game but it's taking a lot. Will try to download it and finish the update in the next 24 hours, then if the internet connection is ok, i'll upload and release it. Else i will need to wait until Tuesday morning when i get back home.

[sovereignstar]

Bowl logos, Icy. Bowl logos!

[DaddyTorgo]

vacation Icy?? In the Canary Islands?!!? damn that sounds nice right about now!

[Icy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

vacation Icy?? In the Canary Islands?!!? damn that sounds nice right about now!

Yeah it's nice, 25ºC and sunny in the beach everyday while we had 5ºC in my city. It's always summer in the Canary Islands and this is really pretty, the whole island where i'm in (Lanzarote) is an old vulcan (300 years since last explosion) and the landscape is amazing, like a black desert surrounded by the sea (the island has only 70km from side to side. Luckily my wife allowed me to bring my notebook with me but there was a big storm in the islands before we came and internet is not working properly. Today seems to be working nice and if this keeps this way ill upload an updated db soon along with the bowl logos, else as i said before i'll release it all on Tuesday from home.

[DaddyTorgo]

sweet. not that i'm waiting on you to finish to purchase the game or anything!

but then again if you can't i can play FM till Tuesday. enjoy your vacation!

[sovereignstar]

Just hit my first runtime error. Think it was #5 or something. Was just checking out the final rankings and boom. Was an interesting season too. New Mexico State went undefeated and ended up the #3 BCS seed with the worst SOS in the country. They did go on to beat LSU and finsish #2 in the polls, so...

[dubb93]

Hopefully this will help Arlie with some logic errors for CPU teams. Just ran across this..

Miami ball, Q2, 1-10-FSU11 (14:04) 7-10
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: Quads, Play: Q-WR3-ins
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-pass-TMan

QB Ki-Jana Rooths is looking,looking,looking throws, and it's complete to WR Kareem Tongue. Wait, the ref from the other side is waving it off. He said it was trapped by the SE.MIA: No gain on the play.


Miami ball, Q2, 2-10-FSU11 (13:42) 7-10
Offense: Inside Run, Set: Trips, Play: TR-HB-draw-LG
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-pass-Man-B10,11

QB Ki-Jana Rooths drops back to pass--no wait, it's going to be a draw play. He hands to RB M.L. Theofiledes, who gets past the first defender and by the line of scrimmage for a few yards. Nice tackle by OLB Nicholas Baugh.MIA: Gain of 5 on the play.


Miami ball, Q2, 3-5-FSU6 (13:14) 7-10
Offense: Short Pass, Set: SingleBack, Play: SB-TE-flat-FL-curl
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-pass-Man-B8

QB Ki-Jana Rooths sees that WR Jarvis Saffer has a step on the defender. He zips the ball in his direction. The ball and defender arrive at the same time and the FL can't hang on to the ball - incomplete.MIA: No gain on the play.


Miami ball, Q2, 4-5-FSU6 (12:56) 7-10
Offense: Short Pass, Set: SingleBack, Play: SB-WR3-in-SE-out
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-SZ

RB M.L. Theofiledes has a step on his man. QB Ki-Jana Rooths gets the ball out to him for a few yards. He avoids the tackle and steps out of bounds.MIA: Gain of 4 on the play.

No reason to go for it on 4th and 5 from the 6 with 12 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter down 3. It would have been a chip shot and their kicker is 4/5 on the year. His only miss was from "50+".

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Hopefully this will help Arlie with some logic errors for CPU teams. Just ran across this..



No reason to go for it on 4th and 5 from the 6 with 12 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter down 3. It would have been a chip shot and their kicker is 4/5 on the year. His only miss was from "50+".

And apparently he's a wuss because he stepped out of bounds one yard short of the first on fourth down!

[Arles]

Yeah, too many teams going for it on fourth down deep in opponent's territory. That will be a definitely part of the first patch. As to the errors, if you guys could post on the GDS tech board with what caused them it would help. If you happen to have a save where they are repeatable it would be nice as well.

[CamEdwards]

I'm loving the game, although the recruiting is really starting to annoy me. No matter how many guys love my team (10 interest, max money recruiting them, etc.) I cannot get a player to sign with me before week 14. I'm playing as Oklahoma State, and I'm seeing players sign with Mizzou, Kansas, K-State, Colorado, Nebraska in the first week or two of recruiting. Nothing for me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I'm loving the game, although the recruiting is really starting to annoy me. No matter how many guys love my team (10 interest, max money recruiting them, etc.) I cannot get a player to sign with me before week 14. I'm playing as Oklahoma State, and I'm seeing players sign with Mizzou, Kansas, K-State, Colorado, Nebraska in the first week or two of recruiting. Nothing for me.

Yeah, they need to sign a little earlier. Are you listening, Arlie?

[Arles]

Sorry? My ears are burning.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Arles

Sorry? My ears are burning.

Yeah. CamEdwards was just saying, "You should listen to SkyDog a little more."


...or something like that.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I'm loving the game, although the recruiting is really starting to annoy me. No matter how many guys love my team (10 interest, max money recruiting them, etc.) I cannot get a player to sign with me before week 14. I'm playing as Oklahoma State, and I'm seeing players sign with Mizzou, Kansas, K-State, Colorado, Nebraska in the first week or two of recruiting. Nothing for me.

Definitly a bug.

[Havok]

5 games into the season and my starting QB(lost in 3rd game), RB(lost in 2nd game), FB(lost in 5th game) and top WR(lost in first game) are all injuried. Along with a starting OT and a starting DT. I've also lost my back-up TE and starting SS to academic probation. My playing time %'s are pretty low all across the board.

fun stuff for my first season. Extremely unimpressed so far.

[Coffee Warlord]

I must suck. Colorado just lost to freakin' BAYLOR.

[IMetTrentGreen]

injuries are about 3000% too high. playing time doesnt saeem to matter

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I must suck. Colorado just lost to freakin' BAYLOR.

I'm noticing a lot of upsets as well. The first few I wrote off, but they do seem a little too frequent. I'm hoping it's just a run of strange results.

[Arles]

What are the durability ratings for these players (injury) and intelligence level (suspensions)? If you have players with extremely low levels of either (30s), they will struggle to stay healthy or eligible. Losing 5-6 starters to injury over the course of a season doesn't seem all that unrealistic.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Bee

I'm noticing a lot of upsets as well. The first few I wrote off, but they do seem a little too frequent. I'm hoping it's just a run of strange results.

Like Arizona blowing out undefeated UCLA

[Coffee Warlord]

There seems to be some discrepency when you try and set your depth chart when using the 1-20 stat range.

First, the most obvious bug is it lists aggressiveness ratings (on the special teams chart) in the 1-100 on the chart itself (the upper part). Second, it seems to misrepresent them. Had a guy with agg rated in the low teens (on the 1-20 range) being labeled as 29 agg when I inserted him into the special teams depth chart.

That, and the depth chart itself seems to randomly not allow me to bring up some player cards, forcing me to switch screens and go back in to make them 'clickable'. As well as it sometimes bringing up the wrong card, or sometimes allowing me to double click on a blank space and bring up a player card.

Oh. Yeah. The list at the bottom, when swapping between positions, will sometimes require me to cycle between ratings & stats before they'll show all the players at that position.

[Havok]

ok.... Its week 13 in my season and i just randomly looked at 8 teams to check they're injuries.

Maryland - 12
Michigan State - 10
Missori - 11
Nevada - 12
Ohio - 12
Oregen St. - 5
Texas - 6
Tulsa - 10

seems very high to me. My team is down to 6 injuries, but they all are starters.

Also, there needs to be an email to let you know when a player is healthy and ready to play. I have so many injuries i forget who's injuried and who's healthy half the time.

[Havok]

Dola

opps... i take that back. I have 8 injuries and 7 are starters


ok wait.... i really messed up on that previous post. When i sorted each players roster by 'status', i thought i had all the injuried players at the top. I was wrong, if you scroll down you usually find a few more. SO i'll revise my numbers again.

Maryland - 16
Michigan State - 13
Missori - 18
Nevada - 16
Ohio - 15
Oregen St. - 9
Texas - 9
Tulsa - 11

now remember... these are just 8 random teams i picked.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Havok

Also, there needs to be an email to let you know when a player is healthy and ready to play. I have so many injuries i forget who's injuried and who's healthy half the time.

Heavily heavily heavily seconded.

[dubb93]

I still see a problem with the polls that is bad enough I would classify it as a bug, and if it were multiplayer and this was happening there would probably be a boycott of the polls

Anyway, Florida was 1-1, with their only loss coming a team that at the time was ranked #1 in the county and it was only by 7 points on the road(Miami). They fall to being ranked #15, and #21 in the two polls. Probably the biggest difference I've seen from any one team on the game, but that isn't the problem.

Their 3rd game was @ #2 LSU. Florida wins that game 38-31 and falls to unranked in one poll and ranked #23 in the other. I can understand some of the shuffling, but this I can't understand at all.

[Joe]

how severe are these injuries? its not abnormal to see that # of injuries, unless they are season ending or something. guys do get hurt playing football.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

how severe are these injuries? its not abnormal to see that # of injuries, unless they are season ending or something. guys do get hurt playing football.

Maryland has 12 guys out, 3 guys doubtful and 1 guy probale.

Michigan State has 5 guys out, 4 guys questionable, 2 guys doubtful and 2 guys probable

Missouri has 4 guys out, 6 guys doubtful, 5 guys questionable and 3 guys probable

Nevada has 3 guys out, 8 guys doubtful, 2 guys questionable and 3 guys probable

Ohio - has 12 guys out, 1 guy doubtful, 1 guy questionable and 1 guy probable

Oregen State has 3 guys out, 2 guys doubtful, 1 guy question and 3 guys probable

Texas has 3 guys out, 3 guys doubtful, 1 guy questionable and 2 guys probable

Tulsa has 4 guys out, 4 guys doubtful and 3 guys questionable.


and remember, doubtful is just about as bad as out.

Now im done doing research

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

how severe are these injuries? its not abnormal to see that # of injuries, unless they are season ending or something. guys do get hurt playing football.

I really don't have a problem with the injuries. Right now on my team I have 6 people hurt after 7 games.

My backup WR(#3 in a 2 WR offense) is out a month or so
starting TE is probable after missing the last 2 games
#3 DT is going is probable after missing 3 games
shutdown corner is out of the season
starting DE is a little banged up, could have played against duke, but I sat him
my ILB has been out since the first game, but is now probable

All in all seems like a list that could happen to real life team. Only 1 "major" injury in that whole list and thats to my CB. I can live with everyone else being hurt, they can be easily replaced.

I had high hopes for my WR that is hurt, but I kinda predicted an injury to him b/f the season even started. He's 6'6 172 lbs(96 speed). Injuries are going to happen to him.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Havok

Dola

opps... i take that back. I have 8 injuries and 7 are starters


ok wait.... i really messed up on that previous post. When i sorted each players roster by 'status', i thought i had all the injuried players at the top. I was wrong, if you scroll down you usually find a few more. SO i'll revise my numbers again.

Maryland - 16
Michigan State - 13
Missori - 18
Nevada - 16
Ohio - 15
Oregen St. - 9
Texas - 9
Tulsa - 11

now remember... these are just 8 random teams i picked.

So, in teams of 75-80 players, you have found teams having 9-18 injuries. At worst that's 20%, at best it's around 11%. I expect you would fine most college teams to have between 9 and 18 injuries at any given time during the season. The problem is that these lists are not required by the NCAA (like the NFL) so many teams keep them in house. The only ones ever published are of the season ending kind. Again, I am open to real data on this and if it shows the number in BBCF are off significantly, I will gladly look at it. The problem comes in that many of the injuries that occur in college football are downplayed/unpublished - and that leads to the impression that few are ever hurt/injured.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, in teams of 75-80 players, you have found teams having 9-18 injuries. At worst that's 20%, at best it's around 11%. I expect you would fine most college teams to have between 9 and 18 injuries at any given time during the season. The problem is that these lists are not required by the NCAA (like the NFL) so many teams keep them in house. The only ones ever published are of the season ending kind. Again, I am open to real data on this and if it shows the number in BBCF are off significantly, I will gladly look at it. The problem comes in that many of the injuries that occur in college football are downplayed/unpublished - and that leads to the impression that few are ever hurt/injured.

From Havoc's previous post, it seems to me that the game has around the right number of injuries, but the severity is way high. Sure, you have banged up guys all the time in college football, but many are able to play despite them.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I still see a problem with the polls that is bad enough I would classify it as a bug, and if it were multiplayer and this was happening there would probably be a boycott of the polls

Anyway, Florida was 1-1, with their only loss coming a team that at the time was ranked #1 in the county and it was only by 7 points on the road(Miami). They fall to being ranked #15, and #21 in the two polls. Probably the biggest difference I've seen from any one team on the game, but that isn't the problem.

Their 3rd game was @ #2 LSU. Florida wins that game 38-31 and falls to unranked in one poll and ranked #23 in the other. I can understand some of the shuffling, but this I can't understand at all.

That seems odd to have that much of a jump in the early polls. To be honest, I didn't think it was even allowed by the logic (so I will check it out). Early season polls are tough to nail accurately because there's so little viable data. So, my thinking was to try and limit the swings in rankings (outside of obvious bad losses). still, I will take a look at that as you should not have a team fall from 1 to unranked under almost any 2-week situation.

[Senator]

I know there are tons of injuries on teams. That is why there are 100 guys sitting on the sidelines sometimes.

This must have been a viciously long day for Arles.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by duckman

From Havoc's previous post, it seems to me that the game has around the right number of injuries, but the severity is way high. Sure, you have banged up guys all the time in college football, but many are able to play despite them.

Fair enough, I will look at the algorithm for severity and see if it needs tweaking. Remember that investing in medical can help decrease the severity in certain injuries as well. So, if these AI schools went cheap in that area, that may be a factor.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, in teams of 75-80 players, you have found teams having 9-18 injuries. At worst that's 20%, at best it's around 11%. I expect you would fine most college teams to have between 9 and 18 injuries at any given time during the season. The problem is that these lists are not required by the NCAA (like the NFL) so many teams keep them in house. The only ones ever published are of the season ending kind. Again, I am open to real data on this and if it shows the number in BBCF are off significantly, I will gladly look at it. The problem comes in that many of the injuries that occur in college football are downplayed/unpublished - and that leads to the impression that few are ever hurt/injured.

well wait... 75-80 players are not playing in a game each week.

Its all about customization with me, thats why im such a huge fan on FOF. If i wanna turn injuries down i should be able to. I do in Jim's games, i drop them down about 25% so it doesn't get out of control. Missing my top, QB, RB, FB, and WR(along with a bunch of other starters) in my first ever season is just not fun for me.

[Dekanth]

I am also annoyed with the amount of injuries. 4 full seasons and everyone, after about 5 or 6 games, I just let the AI set my depth charts because it is too much of a hassle to follow a dozen (plus) injuries. The number might be realistic, but it sure doesn't make for a fun aspect of a game.

I am all for eliminating some realism if it makes for a better gaming experience.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by Dekanth

The number might be realistic, but it sure doesn't make for a fun aspect of a game.

I am all for eliminating some realism if it makes for a better gaming experience.

thats basically what i was trying to say. And since there is no customization, your just kinda stuck with it

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Havok

well wait... 75-80 players are not playing in a game each week.

Its all about customization with me, thats why im such a huge fan on FOF. If i wanna turn injuries down i should be able to. I do in Jim's games, i drop them down about 25% so it doesn't get out of control. Missing my top, QB, RB, FB, and WR(along with a bunch of other starters) in my first ever season is just not fun for me.

25%???

[Havok]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

25%???

lol no... 25% less!

its starts at 200 i think, so i drop it to 150

[Havok]

Originally Posted by Arles

This is a good point. I will certainly look at adding some kind of "injury setting" to a future update. It will default to what we feel is close to life, but it will allow people the ability to tailor the game to their preferences. It's a fairly simple fix and one that may be the best way to address the numerous opinions on this issue.

if you do that, your my hero

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Havok

Its all about customization with me, thats why im such a huge fan on FOF. If i wanna turn injuries down i should be able to. I do in Jim's games, i drop them down about 25% so it doesn't get out of control. Missing my top, QB, RB, FB, and WR(along with a bunch of other starters) in my first ever season is just not fun for me.

This is a good point. I will certainly look at adding some kind of "injury setting" to a future update. It will default to what we feel is close to life, but it will allow people the ability to tailor the game to their preferences. It's a fairly simple fix and one that may be the best way to address the numerous opinions on this issue.

[CamEdwards]

I just noticed something kind of interesting that you might want to look into, Arlie. I tried to schedule 2 games instead of 3, giving me an open week and a total number of 11 games. The computer wouldn't allow it, automatically scheduling a game for me. Are you required to have 12 game seasons in BBCF?

By the way, I'd be very curious if the academic problem gets better for anyone after the first season is complete. In my 3rd season, I don't seem to have much of a problem with guys being on the verge of academic suspension. In fact, the last time I had to set some extra study hall time, I didn't have a single player in need of it.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Havok

lol no... 25% less!

its starts at 200 i think, so i drop it to 150

Oooooooooh, oops. LOL

[Lonnie]

I had a an additional game scheduled for me as well taking me to 12. I was Texas A&M, and everyone else in the conference had 11 games. I've started over since then and scheduled my 11 and didn't get the 12th as well. I know the first game I had all three invites accepted the first week and then simmed the second two weeks. That one added an additional game. This new game I had teams turn me down the first two weeks and accept the 3rd week to fill up the 11. Then I didn't get an additional game.

[Coffee Warlord]

For the injury thing...it's not really the number of injuries I have a problem with, though it seems to me people listed at probable almost ALWAYS reinjure themselves (could be just perception, but it certainly feels that way)...it's the clunky depth chart. Mucking with that thing week in-week out to cover injuries is already a headache.

The wish list there:

1) Color code / list severity of the injured players in the menu at the bottom.
2) The ability to save a chart, so you can reload your 'opening day' chart in a pinch.

[Arles]

No, you only need to have 11.

[Dekanth]

Originally Posted by Arles

This is a good point. I will certainly look at adding some kind of "injury setting" to a future update. It will default to what we feel is close to life, but it will allow people the ability to tailor the game to their preferences. It's a fairly simple fix and one that may be the best way to address the numerous opinions on this issue.

This would be great. Keep up the good work Arles. I hope the game does great for you.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, in teams of 75-80 players, you have found teams having 9-18 injuries. At worst that's 20%, at best it's around 11%. I expect you would fine most college teams to have between 9 and 18 injuries at any given time during the season. The problem is that these lists are not required by the NCAA (like the NFL) so many teams keep them in house. The only ones ever published are of the season ending kind. Again, I am open to real data on this and if it shows the number in BBCF are off significantly, I will gladly look at it. The problem comes in that many of the injuries that occur in college football are downplayed/unpublished - and that leads to the impression that few are ever hurt/injured.

Arles, I only bought the game yesterday, so it's too early for me to critique, but from what I've experienced so far, I like it a lot. I'm confident that by the time you finish your tweaking, it will be great.

That being said, I've been immersed in college football for quite some time (my son was a starter in the Big 12), and I do not agree with your assessment that 11% to 20% of players being out with injuries is normal. That does happen from time to time, but I do not believe it would be the normal range. Now if your counting small injuries that players play through, then sure, that % can be quite high, but I'd say the average norm for multiple games out type injuries would probably be more like 3 to 6 per season per team.

The other thing to keep in mind is that real D-1 teams carry 85 scholarship players, plus 30 to 50 walk-ons in most cases. They've got a lot more quality depth to fall back on than we see in your game. I'm fine with your lower player numbers, but it would seem that you should ratchet down the injuries to adjust for the difference.

Like others have said, I pretty quickly turned over managing my roster to the AI just to avoid coping with the injuries -- even tho' that takes a part of the game away that would otherwise be enjoyable.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GabeRivers

The other thing to keep in mind is that real D-1 teams carry 85 scholarship players, plus 30 to 50 walk-ons in most cases. They've got a lot more quality depth to fall back on than we see in your game. I'm fine with your lower player numbers, but it would seem that you should ratchet down the injuries to adjust for the difference.

this seems to hit the nail right on the head Arles. It doesn't bother me that the # of players is lower (frankly if we had 85 scholarship players plus 30-50 walk-ons it'd be way too many players, but the # of injuries needs to be adjusted downward accordingly.

edit: not to imply that you hadn't done that, but i dunno. someone (any volunteers?) should do an exhaustive study and come up with some hard #'s.