Soccer Thread 2017-2018

[Butter]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

No, the model where they spend like drunken sailors and leagues go out of business after a handful of years.

How freaking hard is that to understand? Prior to MLS nothing lasted more than a few years. Now there's a league that's put up 20 years of existence. Cities are fighting to get a place in the league. Attendance is the highest, league wide, that a US league has ever had. TV money is increasing exponentially.

Yeah, let's call that a bad model and ditch it for something that's failed repeatedly in multiple attempts across decades because a handful of asshat's are too stupid to understand reality.

It is a great model for league owners and maybe even team owners. You are obviously quite happy with it.

But there are millions of people who will watch soccer who don't watch MLS.

And you can call me an asshat all you like, but the criticism of the league isn't just going to go away if you are a big enough fanboy of it or insult your way out of it.

It doesn't connect with a lot of people. The TV revenue may be growing exponentially, but going from one dollar to five dollars is exponential but it still isn't much money.

US Soccer sucks. The MLS playoff system sucks. The anti-competitive model sucks. And that's not just me talking.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Fun first season for you, I'm sure though. Good to see those massive crowds.

Yeah, it took off ridiculously. None of us anticipated this, but the organization didn't make a single wrong step while marketing the team - even the "United" name ended become something smart in the way they used it in the end. I'm guessing the expansion committee is looking at this and realizing the power of having billionaires as owners, who are willing to spend their significant capital in the marketing of a new team.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Butter

US Soccer sucks. The MLS playoff system sucks. The anti-competitive model sucks. And that's not just me talking.

What anti-competitive model? Seriously, WTF are you even talking about? Every league in the US works in the same way. MLS is just revenue sharing and salary cap baked into the founding of the league instead of slapped on later to keep smaller cities/teams from becoming irrelevant.

It works for the owners, fans, players, and the long term good of soccer in the country. Sticking your head in the sand about some impossible utopia of the shitty Euro model of leagues won't change that.

[miked]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh? AUFC probably has a few more African-American fans than most, but MLS fanbases have always been very diverse (especially regarding Hispanic fans).

Well, I've been to Falcons games, GT games, Thrashers , Braves, etc. The fact that about half the people at the stadium were Hispanic is not only surprising, but pretty much the opposite we see in every other sport here (for probably obvious reasons). It's partly my implicit bias as I live near Buford Hwy (ish) and would not expect that to be the crowd traveling to the Dome...but that's clearly an uninformed and biased opinion that I was happy to be proven wrong on. ATLUTD are much more exciting that the triple option and shitty tanking Braves combined.

[ISiddiqui]

Ah, you are comparing to other Atlanta sports. I thought you were comparing it to other MLS teams.

Oh, and let's be honest, Atlanta's college football team really is UGA (*runs).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

No, the model where they spend like drunken sailors and leagues go out of business after a handful of years.

The model that is successful throughout the world and produces much better soccer players and a much better soccer product than we have in this country.

I guess I'd rather watch quality soccer over worrying that some billionaire will make money.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Every league in the US works in the same way.

Those NBA, NFL, and MLB don't have competition from other leagues throughout the world. The NFL can put in a salary cap because Aaron Rodgers can't run off to Italy and make more money.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The model that is successful throughout the world and produces much better soccer players and a much better soccer product than we have in this country.

I guess I'd rather watch quality soccer over worrying that some billionaire will make money.

I agree with you that the standard of the MSL isn’t great, but it will take decades for any US system to regularly produce world level players.

I don’t think it’s the model that is at fault, more that football is still a relatively nascent sport in the US - I personally don't care for the set up of the league for competitive interest, but there’s certainly a good argument to make sure that football is established before MSL reaches for greater heights, given the history of past leagues.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I agree with you that the standard of the MSL isn’t great, but it will take decades for any US system to regularly produce world level players.

I don’t think it’s the model that is at fault, more that football is still a relatively nascent sport in the US - I personally don't care for the set up of the league for competitive interest, but there’s certainly a good argument to make sure that football is established before MSL reaches for greater heights, given the history of past leagues.

I'm not looking for world class, just guys who can qualify for the World Cup.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not looking for world class, just guys who can qualify for the World Cup.

Blips happen, and the US (nor anyone else for that matter) don’t have a divine right to be in a WC - we’ve failed to qualify relatively recently, Holland have missed two in a row, Italy are in a playoff (OK, they were in a group with Spain, so one of them had to be), Argentina nearly missed out, a number of the traditional African countries have been eliminated.

If you miss a second tournament, radical reactions are more understandable, but one poor qualifying process is not reason to change the entire structure of a sport. If it becomes a pattern, you have an argument, at the minute it’s a knee jerk reaction (trust me, as an Englishman I know one when I see one: we get one every two years, usually in July, but every now and again in October )

[bob]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, and let's be honest, Atlanta's college football team really is UGA (*runs).

I doubt any Tech fans would disagree with you. Most Tech grads leave the state.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by whomario

"One of our better youth players" is putting a brace face on Kid is widely regarded as a Top3 prospect worldwide in his age bracket. (also won the MVP at the U17 Euros)

And as far as i can tell he could have gone to Dortmund any time he wanted for essentially free (250k i think), the only reason Dortmund is apparently paying an actual fee is that they don't want to wait while it is legally settled. Sancho simply hasn't signed a professional contract with City because he does not want to play there professionally.

And weren't there as many he was barred from training (because he refused to sign a contract) than that he refused to train (because he wanted to switch clubs).

Don't expect him to play here much this year, stay for 2 years and then still make a 25+ mio transfer to the EPL. Guess you have to do that sort of thing nowadays, not that i personally agree with it. I'd rather give that spot to someone from our own ranks ...

Our best youth player is about to be named best player at the U17 World Cup, which England is about to win. No idea where our former Top 3 or 4 prospect is.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by AlexB

... Holland have missed two in a row ...

Are you including the Euro tournaments in the tally (The Netherlands finished 3rd in Brazil 2014. ), or are you talking about the 1980's?

It's actually quite common to see at least one quarterfinalist from the previous world cup to miss the finals tournament. From every world cup to date, at least one of the top 8 finishing teams didn't compete in the next tournament, more often than not it included a losing semifinalists. Oranje managed to keep the tradition alive.

The other way around too, by the way. Every tournament so far had one top 8 finishing team that didn't even play in the previous tournament.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Are you including the Euro tournaments in the tally (The Netherlands finished 3rd in Brazil 2014. ), or are you talking about the 1980's?

It's actually quite common to see at least one quarterfinalist from the previous world cup to miss the finals tournament. From every world cup to date, at least one of the top 8 finishing teams didn't compete in the next tournament, more often than not it included a losing semifinalists. Oranje managed to keep the tradition alive.

The other way around too, by the way. Every tournament so far had one top 8 finishing team that didn't even play in the previous tournament.

Yes, meant Euros & WC as the qualifying process is very similar for the two. Didn't mean to cast aspersions. And being an England fan, I'm not even in a position to do so

[Critch]

Managers reactions to the last minute equalizer in the Crystal Palace v West Ham game:



Might be the last chance to see Bilic as West Ham manager.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter

It is a great model for league owners and maybe even team owners. You are obviously quite happy with it.

But there are millions of people who will watch soccer who don't watch MLS.

And you can call me an asshat all you like, but the criticism of the league isn't just going to go away if you are a big enough fanboy of it or insult your way out of it.

It doesn't connect with a lot of people. The TV revenue may be growing exponentially, but going from one dollar to five dollars is exponential but it still isn't much money.

US Soccer sucks. The MLS playoff system sucks. The anti-competitive model sucks. And that's not just me talking.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The model that is successful throughout the world and produces much better soccer players and a much better soccer product than we have in this country.

I guess I'd rather watch quality soccer over worrying that some billionaire will make money.

No US soccer league is going to be as good as the top 4 or the Champions League for the foreseeable future, and neither increased spending or pro/rel will change that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It actually boggles my mind to think prom/rel would ever be a thing in the U.S.

You'd have to be a complete f'n idiot to put a dime toward such a model here. Well, actually, you'd just have to be desperate for a tax write-off I guess.

[Young Drachma]

11.4 million for Ravens 40, Dolphins 0. 309K for Atlanta/Columbus MLS. https://t.co/5Ow16DEgMe

— Sports TV Ratings (@SportsTVRatings) October 27, 2017

The hierarchy of American sports fandom, via @PostGraphics on new Post-@UMassLowell poll https://t.co/kTzb5EAmQ4 pic.twitter.com/ntcrYvJNTj

— Scott Clement (@sfcpoll) September 6, 2017

[ISiddiqui]

Well technically it was over 500k for Atlanta and Columbus if you add in the Unimas ratings .

Soccer is most definitely a niche sport in the US. People love to go all weak in the knees about Premier League ratings, but even those are mostly 500-700k. LigaMX does better, sometimes hitting 2mil. But all those are peanuts to NFL ratings (and MLB and NBA ratings - esp playoffs)

[Young Drachma]

DeAndre Yedlin youth club solidarity payments case added to FIFA docket - ESPN FC

Solidarity payments being allowed would be huge for local communities developing talent, but USSF is opposed preferring to horde the money itself or sending it back when it's a non-MLS player involved.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

11.4 million for Ravens 40, Dolphins 0. 309K for Atlanta/Columbus MLS. https://t.co/5Ow16DEgMe

— Sports TV Ratings (@SportsTVRatings) October 27, 2017

The hierarchy of American sports fandom, via @PostGraphics on new Post-@UMassLowell poll https://t.co/kTzb5EAmQ4 pic.twitter.com/ntcrYvJNTj

— Scott Clement (@sfcpoll) September 6, 2017

A couple of things surprise me with that poll. I would have thought MMA had surpassed Boxing and that hockey is below soccer. Perhaps, its just from the area I live in where hockey is huge.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, you are in Minnesota, no wonder you think hockey is more popular .

I know I live in the land that lost 2 NHL teams, but hockey is basically non-existent in Atlanta fandom. I'm randomly aware of it during Stanley Cup time (I check to see if the Devils made it and if not, sometimes, it's randomly on at the bar).

[ISiddiqui]

Interesting Turnkey sports poll:

Darren Rovell on Twitter: "No question NBA is the hottest property, shocked PGA Tour finished last, expected NASCAR. https://t.co/zqk0O0af6a"

"At the moment which of the following leagues is the hottest property for sponsors?

NBA: 35%
NFL: 28%
MLS: 11%
MLB: 10%
NASCAR: 6%
NHL: 4%
PGA Tour: 1%
Not Sure/No Response: 5%"

Great news for MLS (and bad news for MLB)

[sovereignstar v2]

Napoli is a very good club and have a real shot of winning Serie A. Unfortunately for them City are unplayable right now. Can't see anyone stopping us in the Premier League. The eye gouger will get some results, but not enough wins.

[RainMaker]

I saw this idea floated around for the MLS playoffs. Each conference gets a group of 4 teams that each play each other once. Team with the most points in the regular season gets home field advantage against the team they're playing. So the best team in the conference would play all 3 at home, 2nd would play 2, etc. Team with best record in the group advances to final. If the league needs more matches, you could have the top 2 teams advance in each group advance to a home-and-home series with the other conference.

Just not a fan of the current playoff setup which seems to not give much advantage to the top regular season teams.

[Young Drachma]

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/ch...mnt-world-cup/

[sovereignstar v2]

Italy 10 minutes from missing out on the World Cup

[sovereignstar v2]

Italy out. Buffon retires from international duty.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy crap! First time Italy has missed the WC since 1958! WOW! Well done Sweden.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Holy crap! First time Italy has missed the WC since 1958! WOW! Well done Sweden.

Only Brazil and Germany have made more appearances now.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Italy out. Buffon retires from international duty.

I blame their poor player development system & weak domestic league.

[bhlloy]

Because Spain and Panama are totally the same caliber of team. Give it a rest.

[CrescentMoonie]

USL championship game on ESPNU right now. Swope Park (KC II) at Louisville. Looks like a sellout (capacity is just over 13k). Louisville has also gotten a site for their future 10k SSS.

[djsatu]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I blame their poor player development system & weak domestic league.

This is on the federation and nobody else. They pick the same players from the same teams all the time. They hired a useless coach that never won anything in his career and it showed. So much BS in the team due to politics etc, it's rediculous. Italy has plenty of youth players, and teams like Atalanta, Sassuolo, Lazio, Fiorentina among other's are excellent at producing and playing them. They get bought and lost behind all the foreign players that come from other countries which sucks. Hopefully this is the last straw and heads roll. They need to oust Carlo Tavecchio and get Baggio or Albertini in to run the show. Embarrassing.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Holy crap! First time Italy has missed the WC since 1958! WOW! Well done Sweden.

Only 5 countries managed to get knocked out in the group stage of both the 2010 and 2014 World Cups (of the 24 that played in both tournaments). Of those five, Australia and Honduras are playing head-to-head for the 31st ticket, while Cameroon and Ivory Coast failed to qualify for the 2018 World Cup. Italy was the fifth.

Although rare to unique, it isn't coming out of nowhere.

[miami_fan]

Ex-CEO testifies Fox Sports partnered with his firm to pay bribes for TV rights - ESPN FC

[bob]

Meanwhile, not Ethan Horvath's finest moment for the USMNT in Portugal yesterday.

El error del año: Ethan Horvath hace un osote y le da el empate a Portugal - YouTube

Also, Atlanta is adding a USL team in 2018 that I believe will be playing at the Gwinnet Braves stadium.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by djsatu

This is on the federation and nobody else. They pick the same players from the same teams all the time. They hired a useless coach that never won anything in his career and it showed. So much BS in the team due to politics etc, it's rediculous. Italy has plenty of youth players, and teams like Atalanta, Sassuolo, Lazio, Fiorentina among other's are excellent at producing and playing them. They get bought and lost behind all the foreign players that come from other countries which sucks. Hopefully this is the last straw and heads roll. They need to oust Carlo Tavecchio and get Baggio or Albertini in to run the show. Embarrassing.

It was a tongue in cheek comment. Glad to hear a little more about it.

Originally Posted by bob

Meanwhile, not Ethan Horvath's finest moment for the USMNT in Portugal yesterday.

El error del año: Ethan Horvath hace un osote y le da el empate a Portugal - YouTube

On the plus side it was nice to see the 4 best players from the US (Weston McKennie, Tyler Adams, Kellyn Acosta, Matt Miazga) be 22 or younger and all products of the NYRB or FC Dallas youth academies.

[AlexB]

OK,Chris Coleman was never gonna get a top 6 PL job, probably not even a top half job, but to leave Wales for Sunderland???

Chairman wants to sell, not putting money in, habitual losers, graveyard for a number of managers over the last few years.

Bit of a headscratcher tbh - not sure he’s done enough to just say ‘well, it was Sunderland’ if it doesn’t work out

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bob

Also, Atlanta is adding a USL team in 2018 that I believe will be playing at the Gwinnet Braves stadium.

Maybe it'll draw, 'cause the baseball there sure hasn't.

[whomario]

the moment you know it is not your day (or season maybe ...)

[miami_fan]

Watching the North London Derby on DVR, it is hilarious to hear Wenger booed and criticized for going defensive up two with 20 minutes left. Dammed if you do...

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by AlexB

OK,Chris Coleman was never gonna get a top 6 PL job, probably not even a top half job, but to leave Wales for Sunderland???

Chairman wants to sell, not putting money in, habitual losers, graveyard for a number of managers over the last few years.

Bit of a headscratcher tbh - not sure he’s done enough to just say ‘well, it was Sunderland’ if it doesn’t work out

Should have waited a little bit and took the Swansea job

[miami_fan]

Where the hell has this Dortmund team been for the last two months?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Where the hell has this Dortmund team been for the last two months?

Update: Where the hell the team from the first half gone? To be fair, the fact that Schalke still has 11 on the pitch while Dortmund is down one is scandalous.

[miami_fan]

4-4!

[whomario]

This was so predictable in the 2nd half ... Starting with the 4-0 the coach pulled back Yarmolenko and positioned everybody deeper without any pressure on Schalke. Then Aubameyand refuses to pass the ball to a wiiiiide open Götze after disposessing Fährmann (would have been 5-0), then Schalke gets back into it, then Coach takes off the one guy capable of keeping the ball (Yarmolenko) for a CB, then Aubameyang with the idiotic red card. Then another CB comes on.

We ended the game with 4 CBs and exactly 1 offensive minded player (Pulisic) and played 5 guys out of position.

Basically Dortmund got punched and instead of punchig bag or at least taking it and standing up, they cowered and slowly backed away waiting for it to be over. Pathetic performance in the 2nd half.

I rarely call for coaching change, but in this case: Yes, please. Also, sell Aubameyang to the next team willing to pay a decent amount (say 40-50 mio) and good riddance. Guy is a clinical scorer, but not worth the off-field trouble and is an absolute minus in every category but scoring. I think there are 20 strikers around the globe that would score less but make Dortmund a better offensive team overall.

[sovereignstar v2]

Aaron Mooy free kick goes into the side netting. Color commentator says, "That is unlucky."

Uh, sure.

[CrescentMoonie]

Four finalist cities named for next two MLS expansion teams | MLSsoccer.com

Cincinnati, Detroit, Nashville, and Sacramento. If those are the top 4 now, I hope they all 4 get in with Cincy and Sacramento first.

[miami_fan]

Anybody care about the WC draw?