Werewolf LIX: Anarchy in Fairytale Land Day 4 GAME OVER SHREK WINS!!!

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin/Tinkerbelle stated she had a tail. Can you come up with a scenario where he would lie about this?

It was rhetorical more than a literal statement. What I meant more was regardless of whether she has a tail or not, OG poisoned someone.

To me it's like "hmmmm, we have a jaywalker that has a possiblilty of being a bank robber, and someone who I just saw mug somebody. Whoever should I go after first?"

[path12]

Dola, by she above I mean DC.

[Lorena]

Alright, I have a few more minutes since Ant is working late. I'm not sure if Anxiety and I saw the same person, or if we were in the same place... but we both smelled the same stench.

How comfortable do we feel about disclosing info on where we've gone?

[Barkeep49]

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

[Schmidty]

I actually think oliegirl's actions are way more suspicious, although I see the points against DC; however, I just don't feel good about the DC pile-on:

Vote oliegirl

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Alright, I have a few more minutes since Ant is working late. I'm not sure if Anxiety and I saw the same person, or if we were in the same place... but we both smelled the same stench.

The natural assumption here is that the Bog of Eternal Stench is involved somehow or another.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I actually think oliegirl's actions are way more suspicious, although I see the points against DC; however, I just don't feel good about the DC pile-on:

Vote oliegirl

I really think there is a far greater liklihood of a villager taking out another villager in this game than in most. And the definition of a villager is wacky anyway.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

The introduction storyline pretty much leads you to think that the mice are good. They tried to rally the people together after the pig roast, but people just laughed at them...

Render pretty much tells you there that the mice are good. (also following along in the Shrek story line, the mice are also good there too)..

Unless someone shows me otherwise, i assume the Mice are a "good" character.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

It's from this line in the rules:

Then blind Mice got all uppity and tried to rally people, but all they rallied was a huge round of laughter. What good could 3 blind mice do?

I'm kind of ambivalent about that line myself but I see where people are coming from. The math still holds, though less convincingly, if the 3 blind mice are good/neutral.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I dislike bandwagons on one person, and we seem inclined to let oliegirl go for the time being, so I'm going to go on the other person who has a vote and,
VOTE ntndeacon

CR's reasoning for him seems as good as any.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

It's from this line in the rules:



I'm kind of ambivalent about that line myself but I see where people are coming from. The math still holds, though less convincingly, if the 3 blind mice are good/neutral.

I interpret that line completely reversely. See my above post.

[Lorena]

*sigh* I won't be "dead" per se, but sucks that I won't be able to contribute to the discussions... all because of my tail... fuzzy, long, short, curly. Oh well... I guess I'll find out wht happens when I come back.

peace out

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

*sigh* I won't be "dead" per se, but sucks that I won't be able to contribute to the discussions... all because of my tail... fuzzy, long, short, curly. Oh well... I guess I'll find out wht happens when I come back.

peace out

Well, not that my vote would do anything to save you , but I would think if facing the Bog, this is possibly the best time to possibly do some form of reveal for whomever you are trying to find for your team. There is always some possibility that one of the people voting for you actually is on your team and would move their vote, or perhaps if you truly are good, some other voters for you would rather take a chance on someone else.

The only downside i see is making it easier for someone who is looking for you to find you.. but like Render said, if you spend 1+ days in the bog its just as good as if you are dead when considering victory conditions.. this way at least you have a chance of being saved..

Unless of course you are evil and then not sure a reveal would help you alot

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, not that my vote would do anything to save you , but I would think if facing the Bog, this is possibly the best time to possibly do some form of reveal for whomever you are trying to find for your team. There is always some possibility that one of the people voting for you actually is on your team and would move their vote, or perhaps if you truly are good, some other voters for you would rather take a chance on someone else.

The only downside i see is making it easier for someone who is looking for you to find you.. but like Render said, if you spend 1+ days in the bog its just as good as if you are dead when considering victory conditions.. this way at least you have a chance of being saved..

Unless of course you are evil and then not sure a reveal would help you alot

Plus several people have stated they have ways to rescue folks from the swamp, if you don't give someone a reason to use such an item, I find it likely that they won't.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

Didn;pt the mice have their tails cut off?

[Abe Sargent]

Three blind mice. Three blind mice.
See how they run. See how they run.
They all ran after the farmer's wife
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife.
Did you ever see such a thing in your life
As three blind mice?


Seems to me she can;t be a mouse either,a nd that resudes the pool significantly.

Vote Dodgerchick

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Didn;pt the mice have their tails cut off?

Yes. But I don't believe they did in the Shrek movies which seems to be their connection to this world, as I don't think of them as traditional fairy tale characters.

[Barkeep49]

BTW, I think DC has hinted pretty strongly which role she has. It's one that I don't care about, which is why my vote stays on her, but is nominally a "villager".

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

BTW, I think DC has hinted pretty strongly which role she has. It's one that I don't care about, which is why my vote stays on her, but is nominally a "villager".

Ahh, I completely missed it then, but I scanned her as one of my actions today and like Hoops isn't one of my two friends, so I am pretty indifferent to save her myself or encourage anyone else to.

[oliegirl]

Ok, I'm here and will hopefully be able to convince you that I'm good.

Someone on a previous page asked if I would encourage someone to save Telle. Here's my take on it...if Telle is a good guy, then I clearly don't want her ousted from the game, in any way. I'll feel horrible that I caused her to leave by throwing the potion...however, it's not like I KNOWINGLY poisoned her. If RendeR had told me what the potion was, even if he had said something as vague as "it's side effects are negative", then I would have never used it on someone unless I knew for a fact they were bad.

Should you save Telle? Well, if you have the power to save her then that decision is yours. If Telle turns out to be bad, you are all going to be saying "woo hoo Olie, you got a bad guy". If someone saves her and she turns out to be bad in the long run, that person will likely be lynched as a result of his/her actions.

So the decision isn't up to me. I made my choice...I don't know if I'll regret it yet, it depends on how this all pans out. Now it's someone else's decision to make...if the potion had given us more information this would be easy, but it didn't so it's not.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Ok, I'm here and will hopefully be able to convince you that I'm good.

Someone on a previous page asked if I would encourage someone to save Telle. Here's my take on it...if Telle is a good guy, then I clearly don't want her ousted from the game, in any way. I'll feel horrible that I caused her to leave by throwing the potion...however, it's not like I KNOWINGLY poisoned her. If RendeR had told me what the potion was, even if he had said something as vague as "it's side effects are negative", then I would have never used it on someone unless I knew for a fact they were bad.

Should you save Telle? Well, if you have the power to save her then that decision is yours. If Telle turns out to be bad, you are all going to be saying "woo hoo Olie, you got a bad guy". If someone saves her and she turns out to be bad in the long run, that person will likely be lynched as a result of his/her actions.

So the decision isn't up to me. I made my choice...I don't know if I'll regret it yet, it depends on how this all pans out. Now it's someone else's decision to make...if the potion had given us more information this would be easy, but it didn't so it's not.

I still don't think your story stands up very well. Your initial comment was that you thought she might be the dragon (for some unknown reason that you never did explain despite multiple people asking), thus leading us to believe that you thought Telle was bad for this unknown reason and thus took a shot at killing her with this potion.

Now you don't have a feel one way or another if Telle was bad, didn't know the potion was harmful and if you did you never would have thrown it...

Can't really have it both ways here, you either thought Telle was the dragon for this unknown reason and knowingly tried to kill her, thus will look like a hero if/when she dies and ends up the dragon, or be someone alot of people want to vote out if she dies and ends up good. Now you are backtracking some on your statement and appear to be hedging your bets.. you didn't know it was a dangerous potion, you don't know if she is good or bad... etc..

My take on this is you didn't think the action all the way through, you had an idea the potion was harmful (or outright knew it was poison), took a shot at killing Telle for some unknown reason and came up with the dragon story without having your full story set.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes. But I don't believe they did in the Shrek movies which seems to be their connection to this world, as I don't think of them as traditional fairy tale characters.

A few things:

1). I've never seen Shrek, nor do I ever have any desire to at all. Yuk.

2). I'd classify three blind mice as a fairy tale on its own, without needing a connection through anything.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

1). I've never seen Shrek, nor do I ever have any desire to at all. Yuk.

ATTENTION!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!

I REPEAT!!!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!

[Alan T]

I just realized that I guess we can rule out Schmidty being Shrek, or he would be typing in all capital Green letters and making me laugh hysterically by now

[Barkeep49]

I really like that rationale olie, despite it being a bit of a cop-out.

[Barkeep49]

Anxiety: 3 blind mice is a nursery rhyme not a fairy tale. That's why I've connected it to Shrek.

[hoopsguy]

OK, time to put my vote in, despite not knowing exactly where wer are in vote count. If she has a tail, she is clearly not my ally (barring a really weird plot twist, I suppose). Oliegirl may in fact be my ally - attrition is starting to shrink the number of candidates for this I suppose. So I'm basically acting to save a person I might need later in the game.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

[hoopsguy]

Dola - this logic is on top of the "characters with tails" and the likelihood of good/bad already demonstrated by others. It feels like we have a better shot here to get an adversary than with a blind draw.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Anxiety: 3 blind mice is a nursery rhyme not a fairy tale. That's why I've connected it to Shrek.

Cat and the Fiddle
Blackbirds
whatever, they are all connected to the same thing. Call it a fairy tale, call it a nursery rhytme if you prefre,r but it semes like they are all menat to be part of teh porrage of thise storyline. I wouldnt call Prinsess Bride the same a hthe others, but ey, thats what we have. Consider eth words by oru manager:

"Basically any Fairy tale Character, cute cartoon or Fantasy character COULD be in this game."

SO anything goes. No need to conneth them ot anything else, they survive on their own.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dola - this logic is on top of the "characters with tails" and the likelihood of good/bad already demonstrated by others. It feels like we have a better shot here to get an adversary than with a blind draw.

blind. heh

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I still don't think your story stands up very well. Your initial comment was that you thought she might be the dragon (for some unknown reason that you never did explain despite multiple people asking), thus leading us to believe that you thought Telle was bad for this unknown reason and thus took a shot at killing her with this potion.

Now you don't have a feel one way or another if Telle was bad, didn't know the potion was harmful and if you did you never would have thrown it...

Can't really have it both ways here, you either thought Telle was the dragon for this unknown reason and knowingly tried to kill her, thus will look like a hero if/when she dies and ends up the dragon, or be someone alot of people want to vote out if she dies and ends up good. Now you are backtracking some on your statement and appear to be hedging your bets.. you didn't know it was a dangerous potion, you don't know if she is good or bad... etc..

My take on this is you didn't think the action all the way through, you had an idea the potion was harmful (or outright knew it was poison), took a shot at killing Telle for some unknown reason and came up with the dragon story without having your full story set.

I said I THOUGHT she might be the dragon. And I made it very clear from my first post after throwing the potion, that I didn't know what it would do. I didn't throw it in hopes that it was poison, I threw it in hopes that it would either be some sort of a truth potion and give us information about her role one way or the other, or that it would be some sort of conversion potion and if she was bad, turn her good.

One of the options I had with the potion was to take it myself, so why would I assume/think/hope the potion was bad based on that one fact??? If you had an unknown liquid that the GM had said you could drink yourself, would you think it was poison? I've never heard of a suicide in WW, so it never even crossed my mind.

[hoopsguy]

Heh indeed. Nothing should be construed from that comment. I was not dropping any hints there. Nor, do I believe, have I given a suggestion about what my role is up to this point (for those who like to look for that kind of stuff).

[Barkeep49]

Olie: I'm in a similar boat. I have something which I don't know jack about. I'm guessing it's good, but I have no clue. Quite frustrating really. But the thing is I'm not hurling this unknown magical item at someone else cause if it is bad, I ought not to inflict that on others.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heh indeed. Nothing should be construed from that comment. I was not dropping any hints there. Nor, do I believe, have I given a suggestion about what my role is up to this point (for those who like to look for that kind of stuff).

Come on hops, I am absolutely rubbish at reading and dropping hints, and even I got the blind comment.

[hoopsguy]

Olie, I agree with most of what you have said about potions since I had one and spent time pondering it. However, I did pay a decent amount of attention to the color of the potion when trying to construe what it might do. And "black" kind of screams bad things when looking through the lens of a fairy tale background.

Maybe it sounds like I'm saying this with the benefit of knowing what it does now ... fair enough. But I think if I was casting it at someone that I would be doing it with the idea of harming a bad guy, which it may still end up doing (TBD).

Did Telle do anything in particular to get your attention? Was there a post that caught your attention? A particular vibe? Just trying to figure out why you targeted that particular player ...

[RendeR]

Vote Update:

2 ntndeaon -- Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 Oliegirl -- Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
5 Dodgerchick -- ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417)

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Come on hops, I am absolutely rubbish at reading and dropping hints, and even I got the blind comment.

Which is why I replied to it - every once in awhile a word is just a word and not a hint. This is one of those times.


(best Nixon voice) I AM NOT A MOUSE!


I'm dying to give a hint here to my actual role, but the one I want to leave is a little too obvious. So I'll see if I can work one in tomorrow if I'm left alive and still not lined up with my ally.

[oliegirl]

Self Preservation vote to break the tie...

VOTE DODGERCHICK

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Olie, I agree with most of what you have said about potions since I had one and spent time pondering it. However, I did pay a decent amount of attention to the color of the potion when trying to construe what it might do. And "black" kind of screams bad things when looking through the lens of a fairy tale background.

Maybe it sounds like I'm saying this with the benefit of knowing what it does now ... fair enough. But I think if I was casting it at someone that I would be doing it with the idea of harming a bad guy, which it may still end up doing (TBD).

Did Telle do anything in particular to get your attention? Was there a post that caught your attention? A particular vibe? Just trying to figure out why you targeted that particular player ...

Hindsight is 20/20, you are right. Yeah, it was black...which is why I only threw it at her and didn't give it to her and force her to drink it, which was an option - I asked RendeR specifically about that. I'm assuming at this point that her drinking it would immediately kill her instead of just ailing her.

It wasn't any one specific thing she said, more just the vagueness of her posts at a time when a number of people were openly giving information. Not necessarily revealing, but laying out what their victory conditions were and whatnot. I can't point to one post, all I can say is that in the scenario I had in my head, who was who and all that, she fit as the Dragon.

[Alan T]

This is the point of a WW game where I become overly fixated with my hunch and everything that a person I am suspicious of posts just screams wolf to me, and then suddenly several people's posts that seem to inexplainably defend that person begin to draw lines together and by the end of day 2 I feel I know who all of the bad guys are...

Fast forward 3 days later and I find I've pushed for the elimination of various allies or innocent bystanders.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I agree that this vote has a lot of potential to be interesting. But unlike most games, it will take awhile to hunt down what the heck is going on with the vote movement.

I'm up for suggestions for how we can act on the results of this vote tomorrow if you have post-deadline thoughts on the matter.

[RendeR]

Deadline, info to follow

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I agree that this vote has a lot of potential to be interesting. But unlike most games, it will take awhile to hunt down what the heck is going on with the vote movement.

I'm up for suggestions for how we can act on the results of this vote tomorrow if you have post-deadline thoughts on the matter.

I don't think there is anything much we can learn from the votes as the person is sent to the bog without any form of reveal. Like I said before that this is likely the best time for a reveal if the person is a good character in order to be saved, and am a bit troubled that two things happened:

1) a few votes savevd Oliegirl close to the lynch,
2) Oliegirl felt pretty confident in her safety that she didn't have a need for a reveal of any form.

I am more interested in seeing if there is another night kill or if the kill of Cronin and attack on Telle is the extent of today's activities of malice intent.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah voting someone to the bog is of limited value at this point because we don't get their death.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah voting someone to the bog is of limited value at this point because we don't get their death.

That thought almost makes me regret my vote on DC as OG's willingness to go it alone seems more like a personal threat to my continued safety than DC potentially being a part of an opposing faction.

[Barkeep49]

Key word there being almost. I like sending bad guys away

[RendeR]

Final Vote Count, day 2

2 - ntndeaon - Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 - Oliegirl - Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
6 - Dodgerchick - ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417) Oliegirl (440)



Accusations fly back and forth as you all gather together to discuss the so-called Tail-gate and figure out wtf is going on and who killed Little red Riding Whore...err hood...


DC and Olie take lashings back and forth as tail-dragging comments fly all around. dragons Wolves, mice, pigs...gah, so many freaks. Finally it is settle when Olie casts her vote to save her own ass, err butt...or something.

The city guard comes and drags Dodgerchick kicking and squirming away to be lost in the Bog of Eternal Stench!!!


The night slips by quietly for a change amid the croaks of giant frongs and the crunch of humpty Dumpty's shell cracking open for the hundreth time.


day 2 is ended, day 3 has begun!

[hoopsguy]

Well, I have some information on Telle. I'm quite certain she is not a wolf, if that helps anyone make their decision.

She is not the droid I'm looking for, but I have no reason to believe that she is furry. I followed her because I wanted to have more information to help us make a decision on her between now and noon tomorrow.

However, I had also followed Mr. W yesterday and learned nothing at all about him. Have other people used the "spy" option so far this game and gotten meaningful results? I'm trying, in light of learning something about Telle, to determine how concerned I should be to learn nothing about Mr. Wednesday on Day 1.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, what happens to DaddyTorgo at this point?