PewDiePie and our outrage culture - The death of journalism

[TroyF]

Some quick facts before I start this:

1 - I have never watched a PewDiePie video in my life until this week.

2 - My major was journalism. I decided not to finish or pursue it as a career because I thought the media was not being honest with people. I could see even 20 years ago that facts were irrelevant in most major medias mind. It was about generating viewers. There were also tons and tons and tons of my fellow journalism majors who were in it because they wanted to be the next guys to pull off the Watergate Story.

I was genuinely frightened at the time of the power the media had.

3 - Nothing in the last 20 years has changed my mind and it only gets worse. A ridiculously high percentage of the time what the media reports is incorrect and the parts admitting they screwed up are non existent. I'm now genuinely shocked when a huge news story comes out and it turns out "it really was like they said it from the start, this is horrible" More often, finding out the second side of the case shows the initial reports were either not researched at all, confirmed with poor sources or flat out made up.

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Having said all that, this one really takes the cake for me and I think it may end up backfiring so badly on the "old school" media that it will be looked at as an important moment in journalism history and how news is reported.

For those who haven't followed, The Wall Street Journal took a bunch of his videos out of context and showed them to his employers. Disney and other sponsors dropped him like a rock before the article even came out. (one note here: I'm not saying they were wrong, the jokes were extreme even if the point he was making wasn't. I can see why Disney wouldn't want to be associated with that)

Not stopping there, the WSJ proceeded to write a hit piece article and a follow up video showing that PewDiePie is a racist Jew hating guy and made sure to point out how dangerous it is to have one guy get a lot of followers.

While some may find the jokes to be in bad taste, when watched in context, none of them show he's a racist. None of them show he's an anti semite. In fact, in most of the cases, the jokes were made as satire against the media showing how they take things out of context.

I said above it is backfiring and it is. PewDiePie posted a response video yesterday. In less than two days the video has been watched over 7 million times. 1,3 million likes, under 16,000 dislikes. Fellow you tubers and comedians are jumping in and defending him as well.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I do not think this is dying out. I think more and more people are going to hear about this and the faith in the mainstream media is going to continue to erode as we move forward. I know it is too much to ask to hope the outrage culture goes with it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I did not read the WSJ piece on PewDiePie . While I am aware of who he is and what he does, I have never watched any of his videos.

I have followed this recent story about him - the anti-semite claims.

Here is what I understand the basic facts to be:

1. PewDiePie wanted to show how ridiculous this thing called Fiverr is. I guess it's some internet thing where you can wire people five dollars to do just about anything.

2. To do this, he pays two dudes in India five dollars, through Fiverr, to hold up a sign that says "Death To All Jews".

3. Outrage ensues.

Okay. Where's the joke? What subtle humor am I missing here? I am willing to listen and try to understand.

If he wanted to prove how silly Fiverr is, why not have the sign say "I love cock!" or "I like to shove gerbils up my ass!" or anything that is not, on its face, 100% anti-semitic? Please explain to me the context of this joke that makes this sign okay?

The fact that fellow "you tubers" are jumping in to defend him doesn't help. Have you ever read comments on YouTube? They are the fucking worst.

Also, I find this to be a very odd case to hold up as "the death of journalis,." Very, very odd. But, hey, our fucking President shits on the media every single day because he can't handle criticism and is doing everything he can to deflect the truth. The more he can do to push people to lose "faith in the mainstream media", the better off for him. Sadly, it appears to be working.

[Honolulu_Blue]

And if you think just throwing shit up on YouTube like "Death To All Jews" is just all yucks and chuckles, how about this shit:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/living...anti-semitism/

Jewish Community Centers Face Third Wave of Bomb Threats Nationwide - NBC News

Log In - New York Times

There is plenty to be outraged about. This isn't a bunch of "snowflakes" over reacting to some brilliant joke or piece of satire. This shit is real.

[dawgfan]

It's probably worth noting that "PewDiePie" is Swedish. I don't know exactly how Judaism is viewed there or the prevalence of antisemitism in that part of the world, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's not the third rail that it is here in the U.S. That's not the greatest excuse in the world - he still probably should have known better than to pursue a provocation that includes a sign "Death to all Jews" - but I think we should probably be aware that the sensitivity to this sort of thing that is built-in to our society may not be the same in other parts of the world.

If he were born and raised in the U.S., it would be hard to escape the conclusion that he's either A) an idiot or B) antisemitic, or C) both, and that he deserves scorn. Not knowing the culture in Sweden, I'm less certain he should be assumed to be B) rather than A).

[JPhillips]

It was about generating viewers. There were also tons and tons and tons of my fellow journalism majors who were in it because they wanted to be the next guys to pull off the Watergate Story.

Why should that be stigmatized? The leaders of the government were committing crimes and Watergate exposed that. What should journalists be doing instead?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

It's probably worth noting that "PewDiePie" is Swedish. I don't know exactly how Judaism is viewed there or the prevalence of antisemitism in that part of the world, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's not the third rail that it is here in the U.S. That's not the greatest excuse in the world - he still probably should have known better than to pursue a provocation that includes a sign "Death to all Jews" - but I think we should probably be aware that the sensitivity to this sort of thing that is built-in to our society may not be the same in other parts of the world.

If he were born and raised in the U.S., it would be hard to escape the conclusion that he's either A) an idiot or B) antisemitic, or C) both, and that he deserves scorn. Not knowing the culture in Sweden, I'm less certain he should be assumed to be B) rather than A).

While that's possible and I, also, don't know how Judaism is viewed there, given that the holocaust took place in Europe, which is a lot closer to Sweden than the U.S., and the U.S. certainly does not have a monolopy on antisemiticism - it seems prevalent to some extent in many countries - I think it's probably safe to assume that there's a lot of "A" and, unless there is some reasonable explanation for why the sign had /that/ specific phrase as opposed to some other phrase - and at least some "B".

If walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Note, as I understand it, this was not the first time one of his "jokes" contained some antisemetic content. But, hey, I'm sure it was all just part of some really clever joke, too! Hi-larious!!!!

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I did not read the WSJ piece on PewDiePie . While I am aware of who he is and what he does, I have never watched any of his videos.

I have followed this recent story about him - the anti-semite claims.

Here is what I understand the basic facts to be:

1. PewDiePie wanted to show how ridiculous this thing called Fiverr is. I guess it's some internet thing where you can wire people five dollars to do just about anything.

2. To do this, he pays two dudes in India five dollars, through Fiverr, to hold up a sign that says "Death To All Jews".

3. Outrage ensues.

Okay. Where's the joke? What subtle humor am I missing here? I am willing to listen and try to understand.

If he wanted to prove how silly Fiverr is, why not have the sign say "I love cock!" or "I like to shove gerbils up my ass!" or anything that is not, on its face, 100% anti-semitic? Please explain to me the context of this joke that makes this sign okay?

The fact that fellow "you tubers" are jumping in to defend him doesn't help. Have you ever read comments on YouTube? They are the fucking worst.

Also, I find this to be a very odd case to hold up as "the death of journalis,." Very, very odd. But, hey, our fucking President shits on the media every single day because he can't handle criticism and is doing everything he can to deflect the truth. The more he can do to push people to lose "faith in the mainstream media", the better off for him. Sadly, it appears to be working.

The joke was this:

One group of people was calling him racist. He was lampooning them throughout the video and talking about how ridiculous it was. The site had even accused him of saying racist things to get more subscribers. The "Death to all Jews" banner was part of a two part banner. The second part said "subscribe to Keemstar" (he was "helping" them get subscribers with a horrible saying) Here is a video showing how all of the things were taken out of context. (they even stated that him pointing off the screen was a Nazi salute, I'm not making that up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why should that be stigmatized? The leaders of the government were committing crimes and Watergate exposed that. What should journalists be doing instead?

Local newspaper journalists in Detroit were responsible for breaking open the massive corruption scandal that our former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and his cronies were involved in for year. They broke the story and it ended with Kilpatrick being sentenced to prison on corruption and racketeering charges for 28 years.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by TroyF

For those who haven't followed, The Wall Street Journal took a bunch of his videos out of context

Originally Posted by TroyF

Not stopping there, the WSJ proceeded to write a hit piece article and a follow up video showing that PewDiePie is a racist Jew hating guy and made sure to point out how dangerous it is to have one guy get a lot of followers.

the faith in the mainstream media is going to continue to erode as we move forward. I know it is too much to ask to hope the outrage culture goes with it.

There's some irony here.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why should that be stigmatized? The leaders of the government were committing crimes and Watergate exposed that. What should journalists be doing instead?

It isn't that they were trying to do "good" to expose all the wrongs. It was that they wanted to do good so they could be Woodward and Bernstein.

Iran Contra? Awesome journalism.

The good news stories are the ones with tons of research behind them. We don't get a ton of that anymore. It's quick hitting hate pieces designed to cause outrage. This is a perfect example.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Local newspaper journalists in Detroit were responsible for breaking open the massive corruption scandal that our former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and his cronies were involved in for year. They broke the story and it ended with Kilpatrick being sentenced to prison on corruption and racketeering charges for 28 years.

And that is awesome. Seriously, seriously awesome. I guess I misrepresented my first point. The fear wasn't that they were trying to break Watergate, the fear is that Watergate isn't around every corner and when you have thousands of journalists who want to break the big story they focus so much on getting the story out that they don't pay attention to the facts first. (Duke lacrosse anyone?)

Nothing in my post said anything about there not being a real problem with Anti Semite attitudes across the world either by the way. There are REAL SERIOUS racist problems in this world. PewDiePie isn't one of them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The joke was this:

One group of people was calling him racist. He was lampooning them throughout the video and talking about how ridiculous it was. The site had even accused him of saying racist things to get more subscribers. The "Death to all Jews" banner was part of a two part banner. The second part said "subscribe to Keemstar" (he was "helping" them get subscribers with a horrible saying) Here is a video showing how all of the things were taken out of context. (they even stated that him pointing off the screen was a Nazi salute, I'm not making that up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

I just watched the video you posted. It doesn't help his case or yours at all.

First, the video is by a friend of his.

Second, his defense is: "it was a jooooke!"

Third, his other defense: "I'm a jew and I'm not offended!" Irrelevant.

Fourth, he goes after the WSJ for reporting on this story, some irrelevant little YouTube guy. PewDiePie is multi-millionaire and has business ties with Disney and others. That, plus the recent spat of serious anti-semittic sentiment that has seen an uptick since the election (see above) makes this a relevant story.

I still don't get how adding in "subscribe to Keemstar" makes the "Death to all Jews" totally legit and/or funny. Also, paying some guy to dress up as Jesus and say "Hitler Did Nothing Wrong"? That's how he wants to prove how ridiculous Fiverr is?

This, by the way - Fiverr is crazy - still seems to be the thrust of these jokes and the context, but there are infinite ways to show this without going spout anti-semitic stuff not once, but twice. Why not just have the guy dressed up as Jesus say, "I fucked my mother! Twice!" OMG, so shocking! People will do anything! Same (shitty, dumb) joke, but without the whole anti-Jewish slant.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The good news stories are the ones with tons of research behind them. We don't get a ton of that anymore. It's quick hitting hate pieces designed to cause outrage. This is a perfect example.

If this is what generates the most readership/viewership, is that not the fault of all of us rather than the media? If media outlets that ascribe to the principles you espouse attract just a small fraction of the market, does that not prove that we as consumers are what's driving the type of reporting you despise?

[JPhillips]

How much of this is the journalist and how much is management/ownership? The employees are eventually going to do what their bosses tell them to do, and views is the name of the game right now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TroyF

There are REAL SERIOUS racist problems in this world. PewDiePie isn't one of them.

He has 54 million YouTube followers, many of which, I believe, are kids. They are impressionable. This shit is not okay. I have yet to see anything that describes the context that would make it so.

I am not sure if there really has been this much outrage over it either.

I mean the WSJ article came out AFTER Disney had severed its ties and all of that. It's not like the WSJ article came out, misrepresented the facts, there was outrage, and Disney and YouTube reacted to said outrage.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Nothing in my post said anything about there not being a real problem with Anti Semite attitudes across the world either by the way. There are REAL SERIOUS racist problems in this world. PewDiePie isn't one of them.

I don't disagree. But here's my problem:

I have a 14 year old son. He is on the internet all the time. He sees this edgy internet humor bullshit, and thinks it's funny. He also has seen the evolution of Pepe the Frog becoming a racist symbol.

He had a LONG argument with me about the racism of Pepe the Frog. I said the symbol is becoming racist because it has been misappropriated by racist groups... so it is almost becoming synonymous. Him, knowing the background of Pepe, thought it was ridiculous. He also didn't get the nuance of the argument of saying that it is becoming "synonymous" with racism vs. the symbol itself being racist. I understand there was no racist intent behind Pepe originally, but that doesn't mean that some group hasn't turned it into something it wasn't intended.

How many kids are going to pick up the nuance of this? How many are ACTUALLY just going to see "Death to All Jews"... start laughing, then start making jokes about it, just as either an offhand reference or because it's perceived as ok if this guy's doing it? And where does that lead?

The Nazi salute thing is probably a stretch. But this is how racist shit gets legitimized... by desensitizing it from outrage. Maybe ignoring it is a better tactic... but this guy has quite the pulpit especially among teens and even younger. If we start seeing stuff like this and are just fine letting it go, then yes... it is a "slippery slope" argument (which I am, in general, not a big fan of), but I am fine not letting it go. I really think this guy is probably more bothered that his development deals are destroyed now than anything else.

I don't have a lot to say about the state of journalism otherwise, because I do think it is largely a mess. But having this brought to light is probably not an example that I feel shows the decline of Western Civilization. Because the culture of outrage also extends the other way... not everything means that our civilization is under attack. But I'd rather err on the side of eliminating racism than sheltering it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

If this is what generates the most readership/viewership, is that not the fault of all of us rather than the media? If media outlets that ascribe to the principles you espouse attract just a small fraction of the market, does that not prove that we as consumers are what's driving the type of reporting you despise?

Zero doubt. We buy into it, we love it. It gets people excited. Look at the new racist we found. Look at the comment that celebrity made, they are now a horrible person. It's a chicken/egg thing for sure. And the media needs to make their money. Still hate it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Butter

I don't disagree. But here's my problem:

I have a 14 year old son. He is on the internet all the time. He sees this edgy internet humor bullshit, and thinks it's funny. He also has seen the evolution of Pepe the Frog becoming a racist symbol.

He had a LONG argument with me about the racism of Pepe the Frog. I said the symbol is becoming racist because it has been misappropriated by racist groups... so it is almost becoming synonymous. Him, knowing the background of Pepe, thought it was ridiculous. He also didn't get the nuance of the argument of saying that it is becoming "synonymous" with racism vs. the symbol itself being racist. I understand there is no racist intent behind it, but that doesn't mean that some group hasn't turned it into something it wasn't intended.

How many kids are going to pick up the nuance of this? How many are ACTUALLY just going to see "Death to All Jews"... start laughing, then start making jokes about it, just as either an offhand reference or because it's perceived as ok if this guy's doing it? And where does that lead?

The Nazi salute thing is probably a stretch. But this is how racist shit gets legitimized... by desensitizing it from outrage. Maybe ignoring it is a better tactic... but this guy has quite the pulpit especially among teens and even younger. If we start seeing stuff like this and are just fine letting it go, then yes... it is a "slippery slope" argument (which I am, in general, not a big fan of), but I am fine not letting it go. I really think this guy is probably more bothered that his development deals are destroyed now than anything else.

I don't have a lot to say about the state of journalism otherwise, because I do think it is largely a mess. But having this brought to light is probably not an example that I feel shows the decline of Western Civilization. Because the culture of outrage also extends the other way... not everything means that our civilization is under attack. But I'd rather err on the side of eliminating racism than sheltering it.

OK, so are we going to take South Park off the air? It reaches a lot of people. They have had Cartman dressed up as a Nazi before in fact. Do we wipe out every comedian who has made a Hitler joke? Or is this just about followers?

You and your son are both right. There is now imagry associated with Pepe by racists and the meme has taken a nasty turn. He saw it from the start and it pissed that it has been taken away from him by a bunch of racist jack asses.

On what to do? You are right. He can't use it and he should probably clear his browser history of any references to it because all it takes is one person to post a screenshot on Twitter saying he likes Pepe and is therefore a racist.

jokes are jokes. Context is EVERYTHING. If South Park weren't huge and on Comedy Central with mainstream content, if it was a show on youtube with a following of 50 million people, this could easily be a debate about Matt Parker and Trey Stone being racists after 50 or 60 seconds of their 1,000 of hours of material were pulled for an article.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

There's some irony here.

I get what he is saying. My wife wanted to do write copy for CNN when she was in school. She wanted to do actual journalistic work. She was the editor for the YSU paper for 2(?) years. She became extremely soured on the work because she had to have an "angle" on things rather than just report the news.

She wound up becoming an editor for a publishing house that went out of business (one of the coffee table books on cities you see). Now she is a data analyst. She still wants to write, but she does not want to go into the media due to the way they are managed.

She admired Woodward and Bernstein, not because they set out to get Nixon out of office, but because they uncovered a trail that they kept following that exposed it.

A good analogy is my line of work. I am in sales. I was working a show with one of my reps, and he said how much he admired my sales technique. I ask questions, listen, ask more, and then when they mention a topic, I pounce. We normally get the sale with the end user dragging us along, rather than us pushing the end user for the order. Many other salesman, throw crap against a wall and sees what sticks. Then, they push whatever product or service on the end user. Instead of a happy customer, they have someone questioning what they did and if it was the right decision.

Journalism today is like the throw crap against a wall and see what gets clicks. It used to be a major event when the news had to walk back a story. Now, it gets buried back on page 10, but the damage to the subject of the story has already been done.

I read an awesome article about 2 weeks ago. The subject was the elites manipulating the masses. The article focused on the backlash against Trump, and the fanning of the flames you see in the media. The point of the article was even had Sanders been elected, he would be going through the same ringer Trump is. The reason for this? Both Trump and Sanders were media darlings when they could move papers, but they were not the pick of the elite, those who own the media and other industries, who favored Clinton. Sanders was great initially, but once he became a threat to Clinton, their message changed. Trump had something similar happen, with the laugh at his initial announcement, everyone talking about his early tweets, his lack of campaign skills, etc. Then once he actually won the election, it became mass hysteria.

While I did not agree with all the points the author made, there were enough salient points that I agree with that his basic argument holds water.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

He has 54 million YouTube followers, many of which, I believe, are kids. They are impressionable. This shit is not okay. I have yet to see anything that describes the context that would make it so.

I am not sure if there really has been this much outrage over it either.

I mean the WSJ article came out AFTER Disney had severed its ties and all of that. It's not like the WSJ article came out, misrepresented the facts, there was outrage, and Disney and YouTube reacted to said outrage.

And as I stated above, I don't blame Disney at all. I wouldn't expect Disney to have a South Park ride at Disneyland. They are free to choose who represents them. This isn't about that decision.

What is frightening here is how a joke can be taken completely out of context I don't give a crap if you liked the joke or not. I personally didn't like the sign holding, thought the uniform/watching was funny as hell because he was dead on with the satire and thought the Jesus thing was ridiculous) Thing is, they weren't "posts" they were "jokes" Just like me defending PewDiePie on here doesn't make me a racist, him failing at comedy doesn't make him one.

There have been a ton of other YouTubers posting how frightening it is for them. Once you start taking things out of context, there aren't going to be a lot of people with thousands of hours of video left.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TroyF

OK, so are we going to take South Park off the air? It reaches a lot of people. They have had Cartman dressed up as a Nazi before in fact. Do we wipe out every comedian who has made a Hitler joke? Or is this just about followers?

You and your son are both right. There is now imagry associated with Pepe by racists and the meme has taken a nasty turn. He saw it from the start and it pissed that it has been taken away from him by a bunch of racist jack asses.

On what to do? You are right. He can't use it and he should probably clear his browser history of any references to it because all it takes is one person to post a screenshot on Twitter saying he likes Pepe and is therefore a racist.

jokes are jokes. Context is EVERYTHING. If South Park weren't huge and on Comedy Central with mainstream content, if it was a show on youtube with a following of 50 million people, this could easily be a debate about Matt Parker and Trey Stone being racists after 50 or 60 seconds of their 1,000 of hours of material were pulled for an article.

I've seen that South Park. And, no, that wasn't anti-semitic. And neither are all jokes about Hitler. They can be done in such a way that is actually funny and isn't anti-semitic in any way.

What PewDiePie did here was NOT one of those ways.

Context does matter. Nuane does matter. He failed here. Big time. It's really obvious. This isn't about people being too sensitive or anything. This is just calling it what it is.

I'm surprised you don't see that here. I find your defense of him and his victimization to be a bit baffling. Then again, I find a lot of things baffling these days.

Ah, well. I've said my peace.

H_B out!

[spleen1015]

Logging in just to say this is what's wrong with the world today.

Too many people get butt hurt over the dumbest little things. Why not focus all of this energy on something that really matters?

He's not a racist. He made a joke. Get over yourself.

[Atocep]

Without picking a side here, comparing a streamer that has a target audience of young teens/tweens and comparing it to show with a TV-MA rating is a bit of a stretch.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Without picking a side here, comparing a streamer that has a target audience of young teens/tweens and comparing it to show with a TV-MA rating is a bit of a stretch.

Is it?

Do a search for "cartman Hitler speech" or "Adolf Cartman" Two clips immediately pop up and both are you tube videos. The second is Cartman dressed with a nazi logo and a small mustache.

Assume you have two clones of Parker and Stone and in a different reality, they didnt' get signed by ComCentral and aired their shows on YouTube. Would they be racist because of the two clips above? Token?

They are better at comedy so they get a pass? Or are they racists?

[wustin]

I was watching South Park when I was in elementary and middle school. Kids probably watch a lot more stupid shit now with the internet being as big as it is today.

Anyways Pewdiepie has gone off the deep end the last year or two. Reading thousands of youtube comments everyday probably made him crazy.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Logging in just to say this is what's wrong with the world today.

Too many people get butt hurt over the dumbest little things. Why not focus all of this energy on something that really matters?

He's not a racist. He made a joke. Get over yourself.

Agree, but at the same time too many people say stupid shit too. The sensibilities of people is wide ranging. Some will laugh, some will not find it funny while not being offended, others will be outraged.

There are definitely many more serious issues involving race that need attention, but race is such a hot button issue it is a double edged sword. Saying/doing things that have racial overtones will bring more negative attention from some corners, while getting worked up over a racial joke will marginalize bigger race issues in others.

Playing devils advocate there were plenty of other ways to be outrageous and get a point across, so maybe be a little smarter knowing the potential consequences.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I've seen that South Park. And, no, that wasn't anti-semitic. And neither are all jokes about Hitler. They can be done in such a way that is actually funny and isn't anti-semitic in any way.

What PewDiePie did here was NOT one of those ways.

Context does matter. Nuane does matter. He failed here. Big time. It's really obvious. This isn't about people being too sensitive or anything. This is just calling it what it is.

I'm surprised you don't see that here. I find your defense of him and his victimization to be a bit baffling. Then again, I find a lot of things baffling these days.

Ah, well. I've said my peace.

H_B out!

you didn't like the joke, so it shouldn't have been said. Is that what your argument is? You liked the South Park one, so it is ok.

Just because you don't "get" the humor doesn't mean it's racist to the core. it also doesn't mean he made racist "posts" It doesn't mean he's a racist. I'm surprised you don't see it. Once we start calling people racists because we don't like their humor or point of view, we've went down a dark path. Sadly, we are well down that path right now.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by TroyF

OK, so are we going to take South Park off the air? It reaches a lot of people. They have had Cartman dressed up as a Nazi before in fact. Do we wipe out every comedian who has made a Hitler joke? Or is this just about followers?

You and your son are both right. There is now imagry associated with Pepe by racists and the meme has taken a nasty turn. He saw it from the start and it pissed that it has been taken away from him by a bunch of racist jack asses.

On what to do? You are right. He can't use it and he should probably clear his browser history of any references to it because all it takes is one person to post a screenshot on Twitter saying he likes Pepe and is therefore a racist.

jokes are jokes. Context is EVERYTHING. If South Park weren't huge and on Comedy Central with mainstream content, if it was a show on youtube with a following of 50 million people, this could easily be a debate about Matt Parker and Trey Stone being racists after 50 or 60 seconds of their 1,000 of hours of material were pulled for an article.

Really don't let my kids watch South Park, and would question any parent who has a pre-teen who would allow it. Are they going to watch it themselves? Pretty sure they have started watching it despite my protests. That and Family Guy, which I think is just generally unfunny and mean-spirited. I have struggled with R-rated movies at all, and my oldest is almost 17.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Logging in just to say this is what's wrong with the world today.

Too many people get butt hurt over the dumbest little things. Why not focus all of this energy on something that really matters?

He's not a racist. He made a joke. Get over yourself.

I get people have differing views of political correctness, but I don't see why you guys have chosen a "Death to All Jews" joke as the hill to die on. We can debate about the context all day long, but if you don't see why that type of joke would greatly offend people with or without context, then I frankly don't know how you manage to participate in any type of normal social setting.

[Fidatelo]

So this thread had me go read this Vox article to try to get a bit more background. A couple of thoughts:

1) Since when is the word "cuck" an 'alt-right' buzzword? What's it a buzzword for? I hear the guys on Pardon My Take use it all the time and I just assumed they thought it was a hilarious term (and the way they use it it generally does seem pretty funny).

2) At its face it sure seems like this clown has an awful lot of unnecessary Nazi crap going on. I mean, I get it, he makes a lot of videos but geez. And he compared Leslie Jones to a gorilla? Fuck dude.

3) With respect to the Matt and Trey stuff, those guys make fun of EVERYONE. You can't just search for a specific topic and point out Cartman as a Nazi and say they are racist. You could probably find a picture of Cartman as pretty much anything ever at this point.

[Atocep]

My son is 15 and has never watched South Park. I won't allow it. If he watches it I'm either blaming him or my parenting depending on the situation.

Target audience means this isn't an apples to apples comparison regardless of whether or not both are on YouTube. If pewdiepie had an adult content warning on his videos then it completely changes things. His vidoes are targeting young kids and when he steps into adult humor and themes he should understand the risk he's taking.

Even if most kids are going to ignore the mature content warning and watch anyway it changes things. There's no way Disney is backing him and parents that pay attention to what their kids watch and are doing on the Internet can make a more informed decision.

I think there's a lot of nuance to this situation and simply blaming the media misses an important part of the story.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I get people have differing views of political correctness, but I don't see why you guys have chosen a "Death to All Jews" joke as the hill to die on. We can debate about the context all day long, but if you don't see why that type of joke would greatly offend people with or without context, then I frankly don't know how you manage to participate in any type of normal social setting.

Well, I watch South Park, I'm heavily into comedy and some of that comedy involved some dark material. . . I also have a very low trigger threshold. I don't get offended easily and very rarely take a joke gone wrong as anything but that. . . a joke gone wrong.

I don't say racist jokes, not even Italian ones (I'm allowed to say those because I am Italian) because I don't want to be labeled a racist. One other thing: I don't call people who disagree with me on anything Nazis or racists either. I think it's a dangerous path to go down and I think it minimizes real issues with both race, religion and ideology in our world.

The hill to die on here isn't that they were offended at the joke. The hill to die on is they actually manipulated the video to act like it wasn't one. That's not only dangerous, but frightening on a lot of levels. Don't like the joke? Hate his guts. Disney drops him? That is their right. Saying he's a racist over the jokes you don't like? Sorry, that's crossing a line. I'd be a TON of money that the million plus people who "liked" his post or the countless others defending him found the jokes in question to be funny. I know the people posting videos don't all like the jokes. (I linked just one, there are a lot of videos out there from a widely diverse group of people, from atheists to religious, to gaming to political defending him against the "racist" tag.)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

So this thread had me go read this Vox article to try to get a bit more background. A couple of thoughts:

1) Since when is the word "cuck" an 'alt-right' buzzword? What's it a buzzword for? I hear the guys on Pardon My Take use it all the time and I just assumed they thought it was a hilarious term (and the way they use it it generally does seem pretty funny).

2) At its face it sure seems like this clown has an awful lot of unnecessary Nazi crap going on. I mean, I get it, he makes a lot of videos but geez. And he compared Leslie Jones to a gorilla? Fuck dude.

3) With respect to the Matt and Trey stuff, those guys make fun of EVERYONE. You can't just search for a specific topic and point out Cartman as a Nazi and say they are racist. You could probably find a picture of Cartman as pretty much anything ever at this point.

This guy pretty much does too. He's an internet star because of it. The ton of nazi imagry is all from about 4 of his videos. He's made over 3,000 videos in his "you tube" career.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Prior to this thread I'm basically aware that PDP stepped into some shit over the past week or two.

The one thing that stands out to me from this thread -- assuming it's accurate at least -- is that the WSJ article came after Disney cut ties with him.

For me that stands as a key difference in whether we're talking "legit story" vs "possible hit piece".

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Atocep

My son is 15 and has never watched South Park. I won't allow it. If he watches it I'm either blaming him or my parenting depending on the situation.

Target audience means this isn't an apples to apples comparison regardless of whether or not both are on YouTube. If pewdiepie had an adult content warning on his videos then it completely changes things. His vidoes are targeting young kids and when he steps into adult humor and themes he should understand the risk he's taking.

Even if most kids are going to ignore the mature content warning and watch anyway it changes things. There's no way Disney is backing him and parents that pay attention to what their kids watch and are doing on the Internet can make a more informed decision.

I think there's a lot of nuance to this situation and simply blaming the media misses an important part of the story.

That's fair. I'll cede that point.

I will blame the media for taking the joke out of the context. (I'm sorry, saying he pointed in a direction and that was a nazi salute is beyond the pale)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Prior to this thread I'm basically aware that PDP stepped into some shit over the past week or two.

The one thing that stands out to me from this thread -- assuming it's accurate at least -- is that the WSJ article came after Disney cut ties with him.

For me that stands as a key difference in whether we're talking "legit story" vs "possible hit piece".

Disney cut ties with him because the WSJ went to them with their video and asked for comment on the story they were about to run. It was clearly a hit piece. (and I'll say one more time NOT because they said the jokes were inappropriate. It's a hit peice because they clearly intentionally took some things out of context. There just isn't any debate on that fact)

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

So this thread had me go read this Vox article to try to get a bit more background. A couple of thoughts:

1) Since when is the word "cuck" an 'alt-right' buzzword? What's it a buzzword for? I hear the guys on Pardon My Take use it all the time and I just assumed they thought it was a hilarious term (and the way they use it it generally does seem pretty funny).

This is what happens when you blur the lines between internet slang and irl

[RainMaker]

My gripe with the media on this is their insinuation that he's anti-semitic. The videos in question were clearly jokes. He was making fun of the absurdity of a site like Fiverr. Call it tasteless but it's not anti-semitic.

I understand Disney cutting ties because their content is heavily sanitized. A lot of comedians would not pass their standards for what they want.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

My gripe with the media on this is their insinuation that he's anti-semitic. The videos in question were clearly jokes. He was making fun of the absurdity of a site like Fiverr. Call it tasteless but it's not anti-semitic.

I understand Disney cutting ties because their content is heavily sanitized. A lot of comedians would not pass their standards for what they want.

agree completely.

Going back to previous parts of the discussion, the WSJ could easily make an out of context clip-set from south park and question whether Trey Parker and Matt Stone are anti-semites, but it would be completely disingenuous to do so. I feel a similar thing has been done here.

Discussion around whether this is appropriate based on the demographics of his followingn seem totally valid and relevant though.

[dawgfan]

For everyone bitching about the media and their quest for ratings/viewership/clicks/money - let's remember that we live in a market economy. If you want to see a particular brand of journalistic ethics, than support those entities practicing them. Don't like how the WSJ/CNN/Fox News/etc reports things? There are other entities out there trying to carve out a more journalistically credible path. Support them with your money and eyeballs.

[RainMaker]

Gawker did a similar stunt a few years ago. Media classified it as a prank. They weren't considered Nazis if I remember correctly.

Make Hitler Happy: The Beginning ofÂ*Mein Kampf, as Told by Coca-Cola

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

It was clearly a hit piece.

Just so that I'm clear ... you are asking me to believe that someone at the WSJ cared enough about PDP to intentionally go after him? And further down that path, that every bit of this is initially a creation of the WSJ?

(yes, I know his revenue stream amounts, I get that he's a lot more than the average YT'er, etc)

FTR, I'm not saying that I'm unwilling to accept that claim ... I'm literally making sure that I understand what you're proposing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I get people have differing views of political correctness, but I don't see why you guys have chosen a "Death to All Jews" joke as the hill to die on. We can debate about the context all day long, but if you don't see why that type of joke would greatly offend people with or without context, then I frankly don't know how you manage to participate in any type of normal social setting.

No one was actually offended.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In a shocking twist, turns out the Pewdiepie might actually be racist!

Pewdiepie Streams Racist Slur, Prompts DMCA Threat - Rolling Stone

Who woulda ever thunk it?

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

[mckerney]

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

In a shocking twist, turns out the Pewdiepie might actually be racist!

Pewdiepie Streams Racist Slur, Prompts DMCA Threat - Rolling Stone

Who woulda ever thunk it?

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

You're just not understanding the context of it.

[Radii]

Its ok guys, he said later on his stream (according to reddit comments) "sometimes I forget I'm livestreaming." So he only uses it casually in conversations with friends and to express frustration in video games and maybe to insult people.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Radii

Its ok guys, he said later on his stream (according to reddit comments) "sometimes I forget I'm livestreaming." So he only uses it casually in conversations with friends and to express frustration in video games and maybe to insult people.

Awww, all is forgiven.

[Brian Swartz]

Journalism, by and large, died 30-40 years ago in terms of it being the primary purpose of major 'news' purveyors. Infotainment is the order of the day, and has been noted, I absolutely blame the public for a good part of it. It's only that way because it's what we want.

Edit: in terms of this specific issue, I agree 100% with Radii's post a few above.

[thesloppy]

For whatever it's worth Scandinavia (and Sweden in particularly) is kind of a racist culture:

Swedish minister in 'racist cake' controversy - BBC News
Out of fear of racism, Sweden changes the names of bird species - The Washington Post
https://www.thelocal.se/20150914/sti...egro-ball-rant