Werewolf LXXXVIII: Game Thread

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Don't trust Telle's reveal one bit. She was about to go down, villager roles don't have actions obviously associated with them, so she picked the most obvious good guy role. Now, it's potentially true, but as a wolf ducking a lynch it's the most obvious cover ploy. She still has to be on today's list.

The most obvious good guy role? It would actually be a rather stupid one to fake reveal since all of the angels would know it was false and would thus be gunning for me.

[Danny]

Awful day 1. I'll only have a short time to check in tonight after work, before class around 6pm eastern. I'll make my vote then.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Don't trust Telle's reveal one bit. She was about to go down, villager roles don't have actions obviously associated with them, so she picked the most obvious good guy role. Now, it's potentially true, but as a wolf ducking a lynch it's the most obvious cover ploy. She still has to be on today's list.

I agree, but if she were lying, someone would know it (the person who is the real Gabriel). Now, maybe that person just doesn't want to come out and do a counter reveal at this point because that would put a target on his back, but that's okay. We can always come back to Telle later if the real Gabriel gets killed or comes out into the open.

In other words, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for a day or two, because if she's lying, it will be corrected at some point in the future. But if she is telling the truth and we lynch her anyway, that would be bad for us - especially after offing the seer last night.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I agree, but if she were lying, someone would know it (the person who is the real Gabriel). Now, maybe that person just doesn't want to come out and do a counter reveal at this point because that would put a target on his back, but that's okay. We can always come back to Telle later if the real Gabriel gets killed or comes out into the open.

In other words, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for a day or two, because if she's lying, it will be corrected at some point in the future. But if she is telling the truth and we lynch her anyway, that would be bad for us - especially after offing the seer last night.

[ooc] just want to point out that that didn't work so well for us last game [/ooc]

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

[ooc] just want to point out that that didn't work so well for us last game [/ooc]

Didn't read the last game.

I just think that if she's lying, it will most definitely come out at some point (probably sooner rather than later).

And the risk/reward of lynching her today doesn't seem to be worth it.

[hoopsguy]

If Telle is lying there are several people who know about it:
- Gabriel
- Lucifer
- all other angels

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Didn't read the last game.

I just think that if she's lying, it will most definitely come out at some point (probably sooner rather than later).

And the risk/reward of lynching her today doesn't seem to be worth it.

I have to agree with this. She picked a role that more than one person would know if she was lying, and I think keeping her on your mind is a good idea, but going elsewhere for a lynch (at least today) is a better idea.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I have to agree with this. She picked a role that more than one person would know if she was lying, and I think keeping her on your mind is a good idea, but going elsewhere for a lynch (at least today) is a better idea.

Agreed. I'm off to work,

[Danny]

Before I go, did we get the original cathedral numbers?

[Danny]

Also, in the debate regarding whether one wolf faked two points of work or two faked on. If the wolves used two to work on the walls and faked twice, that gives us a higher % chance than if they just had one go to work there and fake. The wolves may have been playing anti ideal to throw us off, but I think it would be smart if they diversified where they did or faked work.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Danny

Before I go, did we get the original cathedral numbers?

Nope.

[Lathum]

wtf?

[jeheinz72]

Ok, finally caught up. Good gravy that day sucked. I should be able to be more active today, as I'm busy but working late either way.

Re: Telle, I'm in agreement on more or less leaving her alone today. I'd only really consider her if I can't come up with a better plan. I think it's a big risk to fake that role.

I'll be making one vote and one work action again today I think. My best idea on voting targets would be the same as mentioned before, someone who could've/would've faked wall work.

[DaddyTorgo]

busy morning at work - will check in at lunchtime

[hoopsguy]

OK, the pace during the days (when I have been around, anyway) has been really weird so far. It is like morning conversation is just stagnant.

I'm going to go with a one build/one vote approach today. I'll leave the walls to Pass and move onto Artwork. That should make it easier to track my actions as there are less actions needed for Artwork than Carpentry.

WORK ON ARTWORK

[hoopsguy]

A few thoughts as I'm sorting through where to vote:

1.) Telle - given that she has had no votes up to this point, and there have been multiple people that have checked in, I'm going to assume that she is either who she says she is or an angel. The flip side to that is that the angels are hoping others will vote for her first so they can better conceal their numbers but I'll stick with the easier answer for now.

2.) Work to be done - I'll look to keep that information in a document going forward so we can better track it. But there seems to have been a LOT of sabotage on the walls as it appeared that there were several more people on that section than would have been needed.

3.) Why kill Lathum? Did anyone get any kind of read on him? Demons usually go after the seer, but that was already accomplished with the Day 1 vote. So was it just simply a "kill an experienced player" move or was there something in his posts? I'm going to do some post dredging on this today or tomorrow, depending on how my schedule plays out.

[hoopsguy]

Looking back at the list of roles, I can see where the assumption might have been "Castle Guard" = bodyguard and they were looking to take out the bodyguard at night.

[The Jackal]

I'll help with the artwork for my first action.

WORK ON ARTWORK

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Looking back at the list of roles, I can see where the assumption might have been "Castle Guard" = bodyguard and they were looking to take out the bodyguard at night.

That seems so easy..

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I haven't spent much time at all thinking about public roles up to this point in time but maybe they should be a little bigger part of the conversation.

[jeheinz72]

Work on Carpentry

[jeheinz72]

pretty soon I'm going to vote, either CR or a wall-worker. Seems like our best bet today

[jeheinz72]

That was supposed to be Telle or a wall-worker, but since the wall-worker I was planning on voting for is CR, my brain jumbled it.

Anyhow, I'm voting CR. Lathum has proven as good and he liked CR for it, CR worked the walls.

Vote Chief Rum

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm still curious to hear from Telle. Is she or is she not Gabriel? All I know is last time I let something like that go it burned me real good last game and ended up costing the village the game. I'm not willing to have that happen again.

[hoopsguy]

Heinz, why Rum over Purdue Brad?

Post #175 is the last one I can find with a summary of building actions, and there were several posted after that. However, Rum + Brad were the two people that doubled up on the walls that I saw in those posts.

Add a complete list of duties from yesterday to the "to do" list. Just need about 20 free minutes to compile it .... hmmm.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, why Rum over Purdue Brad?

Post #175 is the last one I can find with a summary of building actions, and there were several posted after that. However, Rum + Brad were the two people that doubled up on the walls that I saw in those posts.

I agree, although I also want to expand this to why Rum over anyone that worked on the wall, including myself. I guess I don't believe that someone would have faked double-work which is why I don't jump to the CR conclusion.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm still curious to hear from Telle. Is she or is she not Gabriel? All I know is last time I let something like that go it burned me real good last game and ended up costing the village the game. I'm not willing to have that happen again.

What do you want to know? I am Gabriel.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I agree, although I also want to expand this to why Rum over anyone that worked on the wall, including myself. I guess I don't believe that someone would have faked double-work which is why I don't jump to the CR conclusion.

The challenge I see is that there is a lot of unaccounted for work on the walls. It does not appear that anyone recorded the starting amounts for everything else, but the number required for the walls was discussed multiple times in the thread and my recollection was that it was exceeded by more than one action. With that in mind, how do we have two more units of work to do on the walls?

Time to do some post digging, just to confirm I'm not losing my mind while juggling this plus work over the last two days.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I agree, although I also want to expand this to why Rum over anyone that worked on the wall, including myself. I guess I don't believe that someone would have faked double-work which is why I don't jump to the CR conclusion.

I'm doubting that someone faked double-work, but we also can't discount that anyone who worked double might have faked one of their actions.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well, it may be a little meta-gamey, but CR picked walls, left early and then we fell 2 units short on the walls.

PurdueBrad was the other person who used both votes for walls.

So either one of them sabatouged us or there are 2 demons who each casted a single vote and sabatouged us.

I think CR is a good place to start looking tomorrow.

Here's what I garnered from reading Lathum's posts.

He took a leadership/management role early, helping us organize.

He voted for Telle.

He worked on the Cathedral with his other action.

The above was basically his last post of substance prior to his death.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Telle

I'm doubting that someone faked double-work, but we also can't discount that anyone who worked double might have faked one of their actions.

Agree completely, which is why I prefer to look for two possible workers rather than citing in on just the two of us.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

We need 9 on walls to move onto the other areas and have 3 in for this area so far.

Quoting myself from earlier in the day to confirm that there were 9 units of work to be done on the walls.

[Tyrith]

Yeah, hoops, we lost a couple of cycles in there yesterday.

[hoopsguy]

Which means that seven units of work were completed. There were significantly more than seven actions that were placed on the walls. One of the actions was from Hannibal, who has no apparent reason to lie as a dead villager.

So I'm thinking that significant work was not completed by the people who were on the walls. I'm pretty sure my vote is going here, and right now the two people with double actions seem like the biggest wildcards because I do not see why a large number of people would fake their actions.

[Tyrith]

I'm not going to have much time to give to this again today - it should be vastly better tomorrow. But I'm probably going to be voting for one of the wall gang - although, in all honesty, I expected this would happen and intentionally didn't work on the walls for this reason, so I'm not really sure anyone can be trusted as that was a pretty obvious move to see.

I will act/vote in a few hours.

[Telle]

Thinking about it.. either two wolves worked on the walls or one wolf did and faked a double-action. What are the odds of either? I think the odds of the second are low, but then again wouldn't the wolves spread themselves around more than that?

[hoopsguy]

They definitely have incentive to slow down the walls as we cannot work on other sections until they are completed. I just thought, based on what I read, that there was a big enough surplus of people on the walls to overcome sabotage.

[PackerFanatic]

Did we get confirmation that our dead villager actually DID complete his work?

[PackerFanatic]

WORK ON CARPENTY

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

They definitely have incentive to slow down the walls as we cannot work on other sections until they are completed. I just thought, based on what I read, that there was a big enough surplus of people on the walls to overcome sabotage.

No, we had exactly 9 actions on the walls.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

People who are lynched have their work counted (assuming they didn't fake it).

Here you go. Post 279.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

People who are lynched have their work counted (assuming they didn't fake it).

Never mind, we did get this confirmation.

[PackerFanatic]

Thanks Telle

[Telle]

No problem

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, why Rum over Purdue Brad?

Post #175 is the last one I can find with a summary of building actions, and there were several posted after that. However, Rum + Brad were the two people that doubled up on the walls that I saw in those posts.

Add a complete list of duties from yesterday to the "to do" list. Just need about 20 free minutes to compile it .... hmmm.

Really it's almost interchangable, but I went with the guy Lathum keyed in on since we know he's a villager and he's typically great at getting an early read on people and bulldogging them.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Really it's almost interchangable, but I went with the guy Lathum keyed in on since we know he's a villager and he's typically great at getting an early read on people and bulldogging them.

woof

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Don't trust Telle's reveal one bit. She was about to go down, villager roles don't have actions obviously associated with them, so she picked the most obvious good guy role. Now, it's potentially true, but as a wolf ducking a lynch it's the most obvious cover ploy. She still has to be on today's list.

Originally Posted by KWhit

I agree, but if she were lying, someone would know it (the person who is the real Gabriel). Now, maybe that person just doesn't want to come out and do a counter reveal at this point because that would put a target on his back, but that's okay. We can always come back to Telle later if the real Gabriel gets killed or comes out into the open.

In other words, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for a day or two, because if she's lying, it will be corrected at some point in the future. But if she is telling the truth and we lynch her anyway, that would be bad for us - especially after offing the seer last night.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If Telle is lying there are several people who know about it:
- Gabriel
- Lucifer
- all other angels

Based on all this I really don't think Telle could be lying about the reveal. Seems like the worst possible move. Assuming the BG can't protect her two nights in a row she's most likely toast tonight.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Telle

No, we had exactly 9 actions on the walls.

Confirmed this just now. Well, that at least tells us that there were only two actions that were not completed.

walls - 9 - Hannibal, Chief Rum (x2), Telle, Purdue (x2), Alan T, Render, RealDeal

No reason for Hannibal to be a problem with faking actions, so that leaves Chief, Telle, Purdue, Alan, RendeR, and RealDeal. Either a double fake or two 1x fakes.

[jeheinz72]

I guess I have a hard time buying 2 1x fakes. I mean the only people who would want to not do the work on the cathedral are demons or some secretish anti-cathedral role.

So either it'd then be a 1x fake, randomly in conjunction by two people who can't communicate (the demon and the secret role) or the demons would decide to overtly put two of their own at risk in a situation known that everyone would keep a close eye on. I don't think they'd do that personally.

[RendeR]

I am awaiting a response to a PM that should allow us to narrow that list down even further. Please stand by, ok don't just stand there, work while you wait....damn peasents........