OT: Hattrick 3-5-2 question

FrogMan · 03-14-2003, 04:14 PM

Somebody mentionned in one of the numerous Hattrick thread (maybe it was a dynasty one) that one of the two types of 3-5-2 formation (symmetric/asymmetric) was easier to beat than the other one. I can't seem to find it and a search for "3-5-2" or "hattrick" brings me way too much reading to do.

Does anybody remember that or knows what I'm talking about. which one of the asymmetric (where a wingback becomes extra middie) or the symmetric (where a central defender becomes extra middie) version is tougher/easier to beat??

Thanks in advance.
FrogMan.

dacman · 03-14-2003, 04:34 PM

Are you referring to what I said in this thread

The info I relayed was from one of the hattrick conferences -- someone was talking about a national team that used an asymmetric 3-5-2. Can't remeber who or where.

edit: spelling

Havok · 03-14-2003, 04:35 PM

now im NO where near an expert. But i think Asymmetric is easier to beat cause it leaves one side open and if the opposing team has a strong attacking winger on that side it could be a serious problem.

But i could be way of base. Dacman probally knows

dacman · 03-14-2003, 04:36 PM

Bah, I've been a hattricker a mere 6 weeks.

Brillig · 03-14-2003, 04:39 PM

It's a toss-up. Since you're moving a defender to the midfield, your opponent can gain an advantage by biasing his offense to the weak area. This could be one side or the other if you use an asymmetric 3-5-2, or the center if you use a symmetric 3-5-2.

Or so I believe, what do I know

FrogMan · 03-14-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dacman
Are you referring to what I said in this thread

The info I relayed was from one of the hattrick conferences -- someone was talking about a national team that used an asymmetric 3-5-2. Can't remeber who or where.

I read that thread but it's not what I was looking for, but thanks dacman.

Right after posting my question, I tried a search and BAM, found it.
Nevstar made a reference to DataKing's dynasty thread, where DataKing was saying that he had no problem with a particular asymmetric 3-52, simply because the other always moved the same wingback side to inner midfield... Now I understand, but if you vary it, asymmetric should be almost as good as symmetric...

Any other oppinion on symmetric vs asymmetric, assuming you are bright enough to vary the side which is left exposed from time to time??

FrogMan

FrogMan · 03-14-2003, 04:51 PM

dola, to add that DataKing's Screamin' Seamen dynasty is a must read for everyone.

Especially for new guys who want to know how start in Hattrick.

FrogMan.

HornedFrog Purple · 03-14-2003, 05:18 PM

3-5-2 blah blah blah.... asymmetrical blah blah blah....

Just go 4-5-1 then you don't have to worry about these silly problems. Uberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

rexalllsc · 03-14-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
3-5-2 blah blah blah.... asymmetrical blah blah blah....

Just go 4-5-1 then you don't have to worry about these silly problems. Uberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

How has the 4-5-1 worked for you?

NevStar · 03-14-2003, 05:30 PM

The asymmetrical 3-5-2 was easy to beat in that case because the team had never switched up what side was left undefended.

If you do change it up, to keep your opponents guessing, it may actually be better. The symmetrical 3-5-2 leaves the central defense weaker, and the central is typically somewhat more important than either wing.

Of course, I drank HornedFrog's Kool-Aid & am switching to the 4-5-1 next season, too.

HornedFrog Purple · 03-14-2003, 05:35 PM

I have average players and never had a solid scorer:

31 games 61 goals for - 28 goals against 63 points

rexalllsc · 03-14-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
I have average players and never had a solid scorer:

31 games 61 goals for - 28 goals against 63 points

Most of the top-level teams play 3-5-2...then again, the 4-5-1 may be better suited for our teams, eh

FrogMan · 03-14-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
3-5-2 blah blah blah.... asymmetrical blah blah blah....

Just go 4-5-1 then you don't have to worry about these silly problems. Uberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

My team is now at "excellent" with the 4-5-1, so I might very well stick to it for a few more games...

Not to say that HornedFrog had much to do in my decision to try out that formation, but the Kool-Aid was good

FrogMan.

daedalus · 03-14-2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rexalllsc
How has the 4-5-1 worked for you?

Quote:

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
I have average players and never had a solid scorer:

31 games 61 goals for - 28 goals against 63 points

What Horned didn't mention, of course, is that his team had 28 points so far this season and was in contention for a promotion until the last week or two. So, yeah, I'd guess it didn't work out too badly.

rexalllsc · 03-14-2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daedalus
What Horned didn't mention, of course, is that his team had 28 points so far this season and was in contention for a promotion until the last week or two. So, yeah, I'd guess it didn't work out too badly.

How is the personnel on the team? Is it worthy of promotion, or was the play higher than expected?

daedalus · 03-15-2003, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rexalllsc
How is the personnel on the team? Is it worthy of promotion, or was the play higher than expected?

Based on the CPU Value, his personnel seems to be around the same level as the other folks who started during the same time (Ardent and DK) - obviously, kinda difficult for any of us to match the incomparable Corny Jernigan. They do sport some seriously ugly socks, however. Ick.

The point is . . . Horned plays a 4-5-1, Ardent plays an attacking 3-5-2 and DK plays a defensive 3-5-2 (even if his team scored a bunch, it's keyed off the defense). They were all good. They were all competitive and in contention for a promotion in their respective series up until the very end of the season.

The best thing to do is take from their approach, rather than what specifics they did, and apply it to your team, your personnel and your style. It'll be much more fun that way. (Heck, Hattrick can even be an economic sim if you want it to be!)

Vince · 03-15-2003, 01:30 AM

How's this for kicking yourself?

Solid Leadership Sympathetic guy, Passable winger, inadequate passing, playmaking and scoring. I forgot I had bid on him, and my last bid was 25,000. He ended up selling for 28,000. Grrrrr....

bbor · 03-15-2003, 01:31 AM

4-5-1 is the ONLY formation for us D5ers

The_herd · 03-15-2003, 04:03 AM

Been using the 4-5-1 and haven't lost in league play since i switched to it. 8 wins 2 ties, with 9 straight shutouts at one point. The 4-5-1 can make a good team play really solid and consitstent, frustrating the hell out of the high-scoring teams, it can also keep you in some games your really have no buisness being in, i recommend it if you dont have 2 forwards who can score.

The downside to the 4-5-1 is your never going to win the goal difference tie breaker, you just don't score enough.

QuikSand · 03-15-2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daedalus
(Heck, Hattrick can even be an economic sim if you want it to be!)

Youu mean there's more?

daedalus · 03-15-2003, 10:23 PM

heh.

03-14-2003, 04:34 PM	#2
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	Are you referring to what I said in this thread The info I relayed was from one of the hattrick conferences -- someone was talking about a national team that used an asymmetric 3-5-2. Can't remeber who or where. edit: spelling __________________ No signatures allowed. Last edited by dacman : 03-14-2003 at 04:34 PM.

03-14-2003, 04:35 PM	#3
Havok College Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida	now im NO where near an expert. But i think Asymmetric is easier to beat cause it leaves one side open and if the opposing team has a strong attacking winger on that side it could be a serious problem. But i could be way of base. Dacman probally knows __________________ Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it!

03-14-2003, 04:36 PM	#4
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	Bah, I've been a hattricker a mere 6 weeks. __________________ No signatures allowed.

03-14-2003, 05:18 PM	#8
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	3-5-2 blah blah blah.... asymmetrical blah blah blah.... Just go 4-5-1 then you don't have to worry about these silly problems. Uberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! __________________ King of All FOFC Media!!! IHOF: Fort Worthless Fury- 2004 AOC Deep South Champions (not acknowledged via conspiracy)

03-14-2003, 05:30 PM	#10
NevStar High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Raleigh, NC	The asymmetrical 3-5-2 was easy to beat in that case because the team had never switched up what side was left undefended. If you do change it up, to keep your opponents guessing, it may actually be better. The symmetrical 3-5-2 leaves the central defense weaker, and the central is typically somewhat more important than either wing. Of course, I drank HornedFrog's Kool-Aid & am switching to the 4-5-1 next season, too. __________________ I can't think of a clever signature.

03-14-2003, 04:39 PM	#5
Brillig College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Mountain View, California	It's a toss-up. Since you're moving a defender to the midfield, your opponent can gain an advantage by biasing his offense to the weak area. This could be one side or the other if you use an asymmetric 3-5-2, or the center if you use a symmetric 3-5-2. Or so I believe, what do I know

03-14-2003, 04:51 PM	#7
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	dola, to add that DataKing's Screamin' Seamen dynasty is a must read for everyone. Especially for new guys who want to know how start in Hattrick. FrogMan.

03-14-2003, 05:35 PM	#11
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	I have average players and never had a solid scorer: 31 games 61 goals for - 28 goals against 63 points __________________ King of All FOFC Media!!! IHOF: Fort Worthless Fury- 2004 AOC Deep South Champions (not acknowledged via conspiracy)

03-15-2003, 01:30 AM	#17
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	How's this for kicking yourself? Solid Leadership Sympathetic guy, Passable winger, inadequate passing, playmaking and scoring. I forgot I had bid on him, and my last bid was 25,000. He ended up selling for 28,000. Grrrrr.... __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

03-15-2003, 01:31 AM	#18
bbor Pro Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: toronto	4-5-1 is the ONLY formation for us D5ers __________________ Pumpy Tudors Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.

03-15-2003, 04:03 AM	#19
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Been using the 4-5-1 and haven't lost in league play since i switched to it. 8 wins 2 ties, with 9 straight shutouts at one point. The 4-5-1 can make a good team play really solid and consitstent, frustrating the hell out of the high-scoring teams, it can also keep you in some games your really have no buisness being in, i recommend it if you dont have 2 forwards who can score. The downside to the 4-5-1 is your never going to win the goal difference tie breaker, you just don't score enough. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

03-15-2003, 10:23 PM	#21
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	heh.

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