Shaq to Heat???

The_herd · 07-10-2004, 01:06 AM

Its being reported the Lakers have made 2 offers to the Heat and are waiting for a reply.

*Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and a 1st round pick in exchange for Shaq
or
*Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler

Its all up to the Heat.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 01:08 AM

The rumors over here are that the Heat offered the first trade and the Lakers countered with the second trade, only it also has the first round pick. Wade and Shaq make it to the second round in the East no problems.

The_herd · 07-10-2004, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The rumors over here are that the Heat offered the first trade and the Lakers countered with the second trade, only it also has the first round pick. Wade and Shaq make it to the second round in the East no problems.

Thats what ESPNews just reported. Although what you said sounds more likely.

Not a bad deal either way for both teams. Lamar Odom is starting to look like the player he was supposed to be and he is still only 24. Brian Grant is a decent player.

Shaq with the Heat and Wade are suddenly a top 4 team in the East, if not higher.

stevew · 07-10-2004, 01:52 AM

Its pretty odd how Riley and Odom had some sort of "mutual love affair" thingy going on, and now Odom is getting traded. This puts the Heat into the title hunt, at least for the east, but unless Shaq's gonna stay healthy and play 75% of the games the next 2 seasons, i wouldnt trade for him.

Anthony · 07-10-2004, 01:52 AM

Heat should move that 1st round pick - with Shaq they'll improve a lot i nthe standings so it'll probably be after the 18th pick, and there's no franchise players scheduled to come out next year at this point. what have they got to lose?

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 02:00 AM

Thats part of the reason for wanting Caron Butler, the first round pick isn't expected to be that great anyways....

Ragone · 07-10-2004, 04:41 AM

Man.. If i was the heat i'd try to find a way to keep Butler.. Butler/wade/shaq would be scary.. But i think the real hold up in the deal is Odom..

stevew · 07-10-2004, 10:20 AM

From what I heard, Kobe told the Lakers he would sign with the Clippers if Shaq was not traded by this weekend. I cant find an exact source offhand tho. Imagine Kobe on the Clippers. That team wins 50+ games already.

Anthony · 07-10-2004, 10:34 AM

Kobe - big dominating Center = getting doubleteamed all nite.

i'd call Kobe on his bluff. teams can't have players dictating how they run business. especially players who are under trial for rape.

Alf · 07-10-2004, 10:46 AM

Let Kobe sign with the Clippers.

SonyLuang · 07-10-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_herd

Its being reported the Lakers have made 2 offers to the Heat and are waiting for a reply.

*Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and a 1st round pick in exchange for Shaq
or
*Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler

Its all up to the Heat.

There is no way in hell that the Heats will let go both Lamar Odom and Caron Butler.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 10:48 AM

I actually wouldn't be surprised. Kobe cares about legacy (along with the cash) and Imagine being a player who leads the Clippers to Glory? Talk about something more out of the question than that. Look at who he'll have no less. Kaman, Brand, Maggette, Kobe, and Livingston as a starting lineup in a few years. That'll make one heck of a team and a better on court product than the Lakers.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-10-2004, 11:44 AM

I know the chances of Kobe getting convicted are fairly low according to most of the media "experts." However, if I was the Lakers' GM, there is no way I would pay Kobe over 100 million knowing that the possibility of him going to jail for the life of that contract exists. I find the Laker's consideration of all of Kobe's demands particularly asinine in this context.

SFL Cat · 07-10-2004, 11:52 AM

I agree. If I'm running the Lakers, I tell Kobe to take his act to the Clippers and keep Shaq.

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

I agree. If I'm running the Lakers, I tell Kobe to take his act to the Clippers and keep Shaq.

Problem is...I think Shaq wants out, regardless. The Lakers are backed into a corner...I don't think it's wrong to trade Shaq, as his injury problems are probably going to get worse and worse if he doesn't get in shape. I see 1 or 2 good years left in him...we'll see.

I think the Odom/Butler combo would be nice! I just don't get why Miami wants to do this deal.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I know the chances of Kobe getting convicted are fairly low according to most of the media "experts." However, if I was the Lakers' GM, there is no way I would pay Kobe over 100 million knowing that the possibility of him going to jail for the life of that contract exists. I find the Laker's consideration of all of Kobe's demands particularly asinine in this context.

Perhaps, but every team is sending their "experts" to look at the Kobe trial and it seems the general thought is that he's going to get off, so that's why teams are making the risk.

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Perhaps, but every team is sending their "experts" to look at the Kobe trial and it seems the general thought is that he's going to get off, so that's why teams are making the risk.

Whether he did it or not, short of a videotape w/ audio of the incident that shows him rape her, he's going to get off.

SirFozzie · 07-10-2004, 04:03 PM

ESPNNews Reports: Shaq accepts trade to the Heat.

The trade: Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler for Shaq

(lakers turned down the first round pick)

SirFozzie · 07-10-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I know the chances of Kobe getting convicted are fairly low according to most of the media "experts." However, if I was the Lakers' GM, there is no way I would pay Kobe over 100 million knowing that the possibility of him going to jail for the life of that contract exists. I find the Laker's consideration of all of Kobe's demands particularly asinine in this context.

If Kobe goes to jail, the Lakers are not liable for Kobe's contract (Unable to perform)

Chubby · 07-10-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If Kobe goes to jail, the Lakers are not liable for Kobe's contract (Unable to perform)

Along with the standard decency clause (or whatever it's called these days)

Eaglesfan27 · 07-10-2004, 04:08 PM

That is IF Kobe accepts that clause

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

ESPNNews Reports: Shaq accepts trade to the Heat.

The trade: Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler for Shaq

(lakers turned down the first round pick)

I'm down with that.

SirFozzie · 07-10-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That is IF Kobe accepts that clause

No if. Standard league rules.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 04:29 PM

The radio stations here think that Lamar Odom will be shopped around himself for a post player. The Lakers want Butler to be their SG.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 04:35 PM

Quote:

According to the source, O'Neal likes how Riley used Kareem Abdul-Jabbar later in Abdul-Jabbar's career and believes a return to the Eastern Conference, with its relative lack of big men, will help extend his career.

Shaq is the biggest dumbass because Kareem took a back seat to Magic and they won a few more titles.

VPI97 · 07-10-2004, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Shaq is the biggest dumbass because Kareem took a back seat to Magic and they won a few more titles.

You didn't just equate Kobe to Magic, did you?

LOL

Chubby · 07-10-2004, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Shaq is the biggest dumbass because Kareem took a back seat to Magic and they won a few more titles.

Kobe is no Magic. Very different players. Shaq is also more dominant than Kareem was IMO.

It doesn't matter if Shaq would take a backseat anyways, it's Kobe's ego that wants him to be "the man". He won't go back to the Lakers if Shaq's still there.

MikeVic · 07-10-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Shaq is the biggest dumbass because Kareem took a back seat to Magic and they won a few more titles.

Shaq handed you guys what... three titles? And this is the thanks he gets?

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

You didn't just equate Kobe to Magic, did you?

LOL

Um, no. Why the hell would I do that? Shaq likes what Kareem did during those years? He took a back seat and let someone else run the team and just do his job. Kobe is playing the part of Magic in this case. No one compared them as players.

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

You didn't just equate Kobe to Magic, did you?

LOL

Magic was one of the greatest ever...who says Kobe can't be? He's not there yet...but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Shaq handed you guys what... three titles? And this is the thanks he gets?

Los Angeles allowed him to be the player he is now and this is the thanks we get? Way to honor your contract.

Chubby · 07-10-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Los Angeles allowed him to be the player he is now and this is the thanks we get? Way to honor your contract.

He's being disrespected by a management group that is bowing to Kobe's every whim. Shaq led them to those titles, not Kobe. Kobe opted out of his contract and is holding that over the franchise to get everything he wants. The Lakers could have won without Kobe, they could NOT have won without Shaq.

Noop · 07-10-2004, 05:00 PM

Miami got the raw deal... If Shaq can come to Miami in shape... I could see Miami atleast in the Eastern Conference Finals... They have Eddie Jones, Dewayne Wade and Shaq all they really need is 15-20 points from the other losers.... I mean backups and they could win the title.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 05:01 PM

Chubby, if Shaq felt he is being underpaid, do you agree that he shouldn't have signed his current contract extension, which he has yet to start?

No doubt the Lakers favor Kobe, but Mitch said he'd listen to offers for Shaq, I doubt anyone would try to have traded for Shaq and Mitch probably wouldn't be trading him currently. Shaq has himself only to blame for this whole mess.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Miami got the raw deal... If Shaq can come to Miami in shape... I could see Miami atleast in the Eastern Conference Finals... They have Eddie Jones, Dewayne Wade and Shaq all they really is 15-20 points from the other losers.... I mean backups and they could win the title.

That's how the Lakers won 3 titles. The past 2 years is because the 15-20 points from the rest of the crew never came.

Noop · 07-10-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That's how the Lakers won 3 titles. The past 2 years is because the 15-20 points from the rest of the crew never came.

Well if it means another championship for the city of Miami... I'll take it.

Chubby · 07-10-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Chubby, if Shaq felt he is being underpaid, do you agree that he shouldn't have signed his current contract extension, which he has yet to start?

No doubt the Lakers favor Kobe, but Mitch said he'd listen to offers for Shaq, I doubt anyone would try to have traded for Shaq and Mitch probably wouldn't be trading him currently. Shaq has himself only to blame for this whole mess.

It's not about the money with Shaq. He never has said he's wants out for more money. It's about handing the franchise over to Kobe. Kobe doesn't want Shaq there and won't resign if he is. Shaq doesn't think the Lakers are committed to winning so he wants out.

This whole mess is Buss' fault plain and simple. He gave Kobe all the power he has now and has forced out Phil and shortly Shaq as well. F Kobe, let him leave. I know Buss is thinking about the future but I don't see a Kobe led team with so-so talent aroound him being a threat in the West.

A Shaq-led team with so-so talent around him IS a threat in the West. Look at when he was with the Magic.

Tex Schramm · 07-10-2004, 05:11 PM

As a Mavericks fan I'm thoroughly disappointed in Mark Cuban for letting this one slip.

I think that Cuban's reputation around the league as a go-getter, blockbuster-deal swinger is undeserved. While he has had some success moving bad contracts to other teams, he rarely makes trades where he isn't also accepting another bad contract in return. When you look at all the trades Cuban has made since he took over in Dallas, Antawn Jamison is really the only targeted acquisition that ever really worked out for them. And now he isn't even playing there anymore.

I can't include the Raef LaFrentz-Nick Van Exel deal in that list, because Cuban never set out to acquire Van Exel. He was after LaFrentz, but the Nuggets would not part with him unless we would take on Van Exel's huge contract. Even after it was obvious that Van Exel was the better part of what we got in the deal, Cuban handed out a $90 million contract extension to LaFrentz.

Cuban was lauded for being able to move LaFrentz's outrageous contract to Boston in the Antoine Walker deal, but again, things didn't pan out very well. Now the Mavericks are stuck with another outrageous contract in Walker ($14 million/year).

While I believe Cuban made the right decision not to match Phoenix's offer to Steve Nash, one does have to wonder why Nash wasn't worth the extra money to Cuban when players like Shawn Bradley, Raef LaFrentz, and Michael Finley were all awarded extensions for amounts way above what they would command in the open market.

With the Shaq deal, I saw a golden opportunity for Cuban to make his first big acquisition. Let's not forget that the Mavericks have yet to sign a marquee free agent during Cuban's tenure, and that the big three (Nowitzki, Nash, and Finley) were all in Dallas before he bought the team.

Is Shaq getting old? Sure...but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing at a high level for another three or four years. Team him up with one or two star players, and he can be the ultimate complementary player. He doesn't have to necessarily be the dominant force every night.

Why gut your roster for one player? You wouldn't, but you also wouldn't have to to get Shaq. Remember that Shaq won't OK a deal that guts his new team's roster, and no team will trade for Shaq if he doesn't want to play there. Everybody knows the Lakers are desperate to get rid of Shaq, especially now that Kobe apparently says it must happen before he re-signs with them. So you don't have to trade away equal value for Shaq - you only have to outbid everyone else. Nobody is going to offer equal value when everyone knows the Lakers have no choice but to trade Shaq, and quickly at that.

The Mavericks, even minus Steve Nash, still have just as many talented young players and big contracts necessary to get a deal done as anyone in the league. If you have a shot at acquiring one of the most dominant players ever, you take it and the chance at a quick title. I'd take that over 7 or 8 more years of watching hopeless attempts at making smallball work in the playoffs. If the Mavs have to part with some key pieces, so be it. Just as long as there are enough players still here to win a title with Shaq now. There just isn't any sense in talking about not disturbing the core of your roster when that core won't likely ever get you to the finals - and one-third of that core is already gone anyway, with no compensation.

When I how relatively little the Heat have to give up for Shaq, I wonder why the Mavericks couldn't outbid them. You don't have to include Dirk Nowitzki, and you could still put together a package with more young talent than Miami is offering. Caron Butler is the only young talent in that bunch - and he's pretty much unproven - I guess Lamar Odom is young too, but he's a troublemaker and doesn't really play up to his potential.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-10-2004, 05:14 PM

I really liked Kobe as a basketball player before this power trip of his. Now, I can't wait to see the Lakers fall on their face.

Neuqua · 07-10-2004, 05:24 PM

I just can't wait to see what Shaq does in his games against the Lakers.

Tex Schramm · 07-10-2004, 05:26 PM

Yeah, Kobe's attitude has really surprised me. I think it has to be embarrassing for the Lakers. They've offered him everything a player could ever possibly want, including more money than anyone else. He's made so much noise about how he wants the Lakers to be his team - now he can have de facto control over one of the great franchises in pro sports, and yet he's still looking elsewhere.

I think Kobe could be such a great player, but he just doesn't have the right attitude. He works hard and he's clutch, but he doesn't have that leadership capability that Jordan and others had...I can't see him willing a team to win.

MikeVic · 07-10-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neuqua

I just can't wait to see what Shaq does in his games against the Lakers.

Imagine Kobe driving in while Shaq is in the paint... I'd have the paramedics on stand-by.

Not saying I want to see Shaq clobber him or anything, but I could see a hard foul or two coming..

stevew · 07-10-2004, 05:32 PM

Caron Butler shot less than 40% from the field last year. Is he really all that "special?"

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 05:37 PM

Shaq's scoring was down 6 points from last year.

Kobe said he was going to test the waters last year in FA. Shaq said he would opt out of his contract if the Lakers didn't give him the 80 million dollar 2 year extension.

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

It's not about the money with Shaq.

Uhhh....HUH? Do you not know why Buss and Shaq have a strained relationship? It has to do with Shaq screaming "PAY ME!" at Buss during a pre-season game.

Shaq also wants $30+ mil/year for something ridiculous.

Shaq isn't 100% at fault here, but don't act like this isn't about money.

rexallllsc · 07-10-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Yeah, Kobe's attitude has really surprised me. I think it has to be embarrassing for the Lakers. They've offered him everything a player could ever possibly want, including more money than anyone else. He's made so much noise about how he wants the Lakers to be his team - now he can have de facto control over one of the great franchises in pro sports, and yet he's still looking elsewhere.

I think Kobe could be such a great player, but he just doesn't have the right attitude. He works hard and he's clutch, but he doesn't have that leadership capability that Jordan and others had...I can't see him willing a team to win.

I think Kobe has been pretty embarrassing, too. But let's not develop a case of revisionist history re: Jordan. He would constantly degrade his teammates.

Tex Schramm · 07-10-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

It's not about the money with Shaq. He never has said he's wants out for more money. It's about handing the franchise over to Kobe. Kobe doesn't want Shaq there and won't resign if he is. Shaq doesn't think the Lakers are committed to winning so he wants out.

Chubby I think you're wrong about that. I think that this has everything to do with Shaq's extension. Whatever issues existed between Kobe and Shaq about whose team the Lakers were, etc., are magnified by the fact that the Lakers have refused to extend Shaq's existing deal, and have committed financially to Kobe with as much money as they can throw at him.

Look at it from Shaq's perspective: he's 32 years old, and if he stays with the Lakers, he plays for two more years and then becomes a free agent. At that point, if his numbers have declined, then he will command less dollars on the free agent market. If he's traded now to a team that's willing to acquire him and give him an extension now, he gets at least four more guaranteed years at $20+ million per season. No matter how fat and out of shape he gets, he still gets paid top dollar until he's 36 or 37.

People criticize athletes for being "all about the money". I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find many athletes who aren't, and I really don't have a problem with that. Why do athletes have to be more honorable than the rest of us? If it were you, wouldn't you take guaranteed money over the uncertainties of aging and free agency? I personally love my line of work, but if Microsoft offered me an $80,000+/year developer position, I'd take it in a heartbeat. If you were Steve Nash, would you stay with the Mavericks just because of loyalty, or would you go take an extra guaranteed $20 million with Phoenix?

Sure, Shaq is already making ridiculous money. But everyone knows that the richer you get, the more money you want. It'd be nice to be offered a job where I could make a lot of money for years to come, regardless of my job performance. In that vein, Shaq's right when he says the Lakers aren't "committed to winning". If they truly were, they'd pay the most dominant player in the game whatever he wants. But just like the rest of us, Jerry Buss wants to get his money's worth.

duckman · 07-10-2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

I think Kobe has been pretty embarrassing, too. But let's not develop a case of revisionist history re: Jordan. He would constantly degrade his teammates.

Larry Bird was not a people person either. He is famous for jumping down teammates throats throughout his career.

The_herd · 07-10-2004, 07:40 PM

There's a difference between being hard on teammates and threatening to take your ball and go play elsewhere if you don't get things exactly the way you want them.

Also, if I'm Clippers, I pull my offer off the table. He's using them as leverage and has no intention of signing with them.

MrBug708 · 07-10-2004, 08:16 PM

I wouldn't be so sure Herd. I'm willing to bet that the contract the Clips offer has a player option sooner rather than later, which Kobe would probably use to get a fact extension.

Kobe has never said said that he can't play with Shaq. Shaq doesn't want to play with Kobe. Kobe probably prefers to be away from Shaq, otherwise he wouldn't even be considering the Lakers right now and Shaq would be staying.

07-10-2004, 04:41 AM	#7
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	Man.. If i was the heat i'd try to find a way to keep Butler.. Butler/wade/shaq would be scary.. But i think the real hold up in the deal is Odom.. Last edited by Ragone : 07-10-2004 at 04:42 AM.

07-10-2004, 10:34 AM	#9
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	Kobe - big dominating Center = getting doubleteamed all nite. i'd call Kobe on his bluff. teams can't have players dictating how they run business. especially players who are under trial for rape. Last edited by Anthony : 07-10-2004 at 10:34 AM.

07-10-2004, 10:46 AM	#10
Alf Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rennes, France	Let Kobe sign with the Clippers. __________________ FOFL - GML - IHOF - FranceStats

07-10-2004, 11:44 AM	#13
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I know the chances of Kobe getting convicted are fairly low according to most of the media "experts." However, if I was the Lakers' GM, there is no way I would pay Kobe over 100 million knowing that the possibility of him going to jail for the life of that contract exists. I find the Laker's consideration of all of Kobe's demands particularly asinine in this context. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-10-2004, 04:03 PM	#18
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	ESPNNews Reports: Shaq accepts trade to the Heat. The trade: Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and Caron Butler for Shaq (lakers turned down the first round pick) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-10-2004, 01:08 AM	#2
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	The rumors over here are that the Heat offered the first trade and the Lakers countered with the second trade, only it also has the first round pick. Wade and Shaq make it to the second round in the East no problems.

07-10-2004, 01:52 AM	#4
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Its pretty odd how Riley and Odom had some sort of "mutual love affair" thingy going on, and now Odom is getting traded. This puts the Heat into the title hunt, at least for the east, but unless Shaq's gonna stay healthy and play 75% of the games the next 2 seasons, i wouldnt trade for him.

07-10-2004, 02:00 AM	#6
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Thats part of the reason for wanting Caron Butler, the first round pick isn't expected to be that great anyways....

07-10-2004, 10:20 AM	#8
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	From what I heard, Kobe told the Lakers he would sign with the Clippers if Shaq was not traded by this weekend. I cant find an exact source offhand tho. Imagine Kobe on the Clippers. That team wins 50+ games already.

07-10-2004, 10:48 AM	#12
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I actually wouldn't be surprised. Kobe cares about legacy (along with the cash) and Imagine being a player who leads the Clippers to Glory? Talk about something more out of the question than that. Look at who he'll have no less. Kaman, Brand, Maggette, Kobe, and Livingston as a starting lineup in a few years. That'll make one heck of a team and a better on court product than the Lakers.

07-10-2004, 11:52 AM	#14
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	I agree. If I'm running the Lakers, I tell Kobe to take his act to the Clippers and keep Shaq.

07-10-2004, 04:08 PM	#21
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	That is IF Kobe accepts that clause __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-10-2004, 04:29 PM	#24
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	The radio stations here think that Lamar Odom will be shopped around himself for a post player. The Lakers want Butler to be their SG.

07-10-2004, 05:00 PM	#33
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Miami got the raw deal... If Shaq can come to Miami in shape... I could see Miami atleast in the Eastern Conference Finals... They have Eddie Jones, Dewayne Wade and Shaq all they really need is 15-20 points from the other losers.... I mean backups and they could win the title. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater. Last edited by Noop : 07-10-2004 at 05:06 PM.

07-10-2004, 05:01 PM	#34
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Chubby, if Shaq felt he is being underpaid, do you agree that he shouldn't have signed his current contract extension, which he has yet to start? No doubt the Lakers favor Kobe, but Mitch said he'd listen to offers for Shaq, I doubt anyone would try to have traded for Shaq and Mitch probably wouldn't be trading him currently. Shaq has himself only to blame for this whole mess.

07-10-2004, 05:11 PM	#38
Tex Schramm n00b Join Date: Aug 2003	As a Mavericks fan I'm thoroughly disappointed in Mark Cuban for letting this one slip. I think that Cuban's reputation around the league as a go-getter, blockbuster-deal swinger is undeserved. While he has had some success moving bad contracts to other teams, he rarely makes trades where he isn't also accepting another bad contract in return. When you look at all the trades Cuban has made since he took over in Dallas, Antawn Jamison is really the only targeted acquisition that ever really worked out for them. And now he isn't even playing there anymore. I can't include the Raef LaFrentz-Nick Van Exel deal in that list, because Cuban never set out to acquire Van Exel. He was after LaFrentz, but the Nuggets would not part with him unless we would take on Van Exel's huge contract. Even after it was obvious that Van Exel was the better part of what we got in the deal, Cuban handed out a $90 million contract extension to LaFrentz. Cuban was lauded for being able to move LaFrentz's outrageous contract to Boston in the Antoine Walker deal, but again, things didn't pan out very well. Now the Mavericks are stuck with another outrageous contract in Walker ($14 million/year). While I believe Cuban made the right decision not to match Phoenix's offer to Steve Nash, one does have to wonder why Nash wasn't worth the extra money to Cuban when players like Shawn Bradley, Raef LaFrentz, and Michael Finley were all awarded extensions for amounts way above what they would command in the open market. With the Shaq deal, I saw a golden opportunity for Cuban to make his first big acquisition. Let's not forget that the Mavericks have yet to sign a marquee free agent during Cuban's tenure, and that the big three (Nowitzki, Nash, and Finley) were all in Dallas before he bought the team. Is Shaq getting old? Sure...but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing at a high level for another three or four years. Team him up with one or two star players, and he can be the ultimate complementary player. He doesn't have to necessarily be the dominant force every night. Why gut your roster for one player? You wouldn't, but you also wouldn't have to to get Shaq. Remember that Shaq won't OK a deal that guts his new team's roster, and no team will trade for Shaq if he doesn't want to play there. Everybody knows the Lakers are desperate to get rid of Shaq, especially now that Kobe apparently says it must happen before he re-signs with them. So you don't have to trade away equal value for Shaq - you only have to outbid everyone else. Nobody is going to offer equal value when everyone knows the Lakers have no choice but to trade Shaq, and quickly at that. The Mavericks, even minus Steve Nash, still have just as many talented young players and big contracts necessary to get a deal done as anyone in the league. If you have a shot at acquiring one of the most dominant players ever, you take it and the chance at a quick title. I'd take that over 7 or 8 more years of watching hopeless attempts at making smallball work in the playoffs. If the Mavs have to part with some key pieces, so be it. Just as long as there are enough players still here to win a title with Shaq now. There just isn't any sense in talking about not disturbing the core of your roster when that core won't likely ever get you to the finals - and one-third of that core is already gone anyway, with no compensation. When I how relatively little the Heat have to give up for Shaq, I wonder why the Mavericks couldn't outbid them. You don't have to include Dirk Nowitzki, and you could still put together a package with more young talent than Miami is offering. Caron Butler is the only young talent in that bunch - and he's pretty much unproven - I guess Lamar Odom is young too, but he's a troublemaker and doesn't really play up to his potential.

07-10-2004, 05:14 PM	#39
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I really liked Kobe as a basketball player before this power trip of his. Now, I can't wait to see the Lakers fall on their face. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-10-2004, 05:24 PM	#40
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	I just can't wait to see what Shaq does in his games against the Lakers. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

07-10-2004, 05:26 PM	#41
Tex Schramm n00b Join Date: Aug 2003	Yeah, Kobe's attitude has really surprised me. I think it has to be embarrassing for the Lakers. They've offered him everything a player could ever possibly want, including more money than anyone else. He's made so much noise about how he wants the Lakers to be his team - now he can have de facto control over one of the great franchises in pro sports, and yet he's still looking elsewhere. I think Kobe could be such a great player, but he just doesn't have the right attitude. He works hard and he's clutch, but he doesn't have that leadership capability that Jordan and others had...I can't see him willing a team to win.

07-10-2004, 05:32 PM	#43
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Caron Butler shot less than 40% from the field last year. Is he really all that "special?"

07-10-2004, 05:37 PM	#44
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Shaq's scoring was down 6 points from last year. Kobe said he was going to test the waters last year in FA. Shaq said he would opt out of his contract if the Lakers didn't give him the 80 million dollar 2 year extension.

07-10-2004, 07:40 PM	#49
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	There's a difference between being hard on teammates and threatening to take your ball and go play elsewhere if you don't get things exactly the way you want them. Also, if I'm Clippers, I pull my offer off the table. He's using them as leverage and has no intention of signing with them. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

07-10-2004, 08:16 PM	#50
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I wouldn't be so sure Herd. I'm willing to bet that the contract the Clips offer has a player option sooner rather than later, which Kobe would probably use to get a fact extension. Kobe has never said said that he can't play with Shaq. Shaq doesn't want to play with Kobe. Kobe probably prefers to be away from Shaq, otherwise he wouldn't even be considering the Lakers right now and Shaq would be staying.

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