WW LXVII -- The Return of Divination Nation! (GAME OVER STUDENTS WIN!!!) - Page 19

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

1)this is not incorrect

2)this is not incorrect

3)he certainly did...numerous times...he offered himself, and offered zero resistance when he was placed on the "scan list"....you on the other hand, showed regret at the possibility of being scanned

4)no he didnt...he wanted people to vote for dodgerchick...the only reason he is voting for you is because no one wanted to follow him and more people were picking you without his, or anyone elses, encouragement.

nice defense...next time actually try having your facts straight....you keep saying you arent a wolf, but half-truths like this are the staples of wolves trying to get themselves off the hook

1+2) This is not incorrect? you mean I am correct? Trying to make me look worse by using a double negative?

3+4) He implicated me and dodgerchick...the reason why dodgerchick is implicated is because she DEFENDED me. If she defended me then that means I had to of already been accused. Second, those two words were brought up by Lathum *cough* wolf *cough*.

Saldana...and to a lesser extent claph. You will be looked at as a wolf when you kill me because I cleared both of you...and then you turn your back on me....if I were a wolf. I would have picked a non-wolf and scanned them as a wolf.

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

If they are wolf scans and I am a wolf...then why didnt I hop on board? You deny information by mere assumption that they are wolf scans...This is ridiculous. I hope you are sorry tonight at 10.

I don't think you understand what I was saying. You've been throwing around numbers about how many times a particular person has come up a wolf, but in aggregate that's a meaningless number. The value that the scans have is in telling us about the seers now (not the scanned), and the scanned only later, when we have some idea of the accuracy of our seers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

That seems a bit hyperbolic.

For today, it's true.

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I agree with you there, my main concern is that I think Lathum's had a lot of positive contributions in the short time that this game has been underway, and I'm not thrilled about losing him. In particular, I don't like the way that he's been maneuvered into being the "best information" candidate. I don't know that there's anything untoward there, but there's good cover for it.

What do you mean, "maneuvered"?

Passacaglia · 02-19-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I agree with you there, my main concern is that I think Lathum's had a lot of positive contributions in the short time that this game has been underway, and I'm not thrilled about losing him. In particular, I don't like the way that he's been maneuvered into being the "best information" candidate. I don't know that there's anything untoward there, but there's good cover for it.

Can you elaborate on that? What positive contributions has he brought?

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What do you mean, "maneuvered"?

Was Lathum put up as one of the proposed scan-ees on day 1, or did he just happen to catch more scans than anyone else?

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

First things first...I scanned Chief Rum. I am always leary of someone who is trying to be overly helpful, i feel that he is covering up for something. Chief came up as a student.

Next, let's not all jump on the lynching Lathum bandwagon just yet. Remember none of us really know our success rate, plus we are banking on everyone telling the truth. There is probably a wolf or two out there that has already lied and either told us that someone was a student when they weren't...or didn't tell us exactly who he/she scanned.

Scan away monterey (okay, that cracked me up earlier). I'll take as many scans as it takes.

And, yeah, ntndeacon and I pretty much came to the same conclusion about the worth of having two wolf scans on Lathum right now, and that was before two additional people (at the point of this post) had come out showing him as a villager.

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I don't think you understand what I was saying. You've been throwing around numbers about how many times a particular person has come up a wolf, but in aggregate that's a meaningless number. The value that the scans have is in telling us about the seers now (not the scanned), and the scanned only later, when we have some idea of the accuracy of our seers.

The only way for us to glean the accuracy is for people to turn up dead. Do you think the wolves are going to do us a favor and kill somebody with multiple scans on them?

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can you elaborate on that? What positive contributions has he brought?

I think the skepticism about nfg's grand plan was very well-founded, and it convinced me that I was probably better off working on my own as far as who I scanned. He at least appears to be thinking seriously about the best way for the villagers to play the game.

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The only way for us to glean the accuracy is for people to turn up dead. Do you think the wolves are going to do us a favor and kill somebody with multiple scans on them?

No...they will vote for me...

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Dola, which is not to say that I think other people haven't been thinking seriously. nfg's idea was certainly a reasonable one to propose initially, even though I don't think the negative points about it were ever adequately addressed.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

Chief just to clear things up...you scanned Lathum last night and he came up as a wolf. But back on post 113 you said you scanned him in N0 and he came up a student. Am I reading that correctly?

Yes, although, of course, I didn't actually choose Lathum on N0. I have also been adamant about the worth of N0 scans (put them in a bucket and what do you have? a bucket), so I put absolutely no meaning (good or bad) into that N0 scan of Lathum or of anyone on anyone else's.

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Mr. W. that isnt a contribution. He only said I didnt have a plan that would work. He didnt propose one. We need to organize. Thats my plan.

Passacaglia · 02-19-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Was Lathum put up as one of the proposed scan-ees on day 1, or did he just happen to catch more scans than anyone else?

I think grey chose them, choosing the first four people to sign up for the game?

Passacaglia · 02-19-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I think the skepticism about nfg's grand plan was very well-founded, and it convinced me that I was probably better off working on my own as far as who I scanned. He at least appears to be thinking seriously about the best way for the villagers to play the game.

Do you mean grey's plan?

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think grey chose them, choosing the first four people to sign up for the game?

I think this is correct. The groups were done alphabetical, and the scan targets were in order of sign up. Seemed a reasonable solution.

Passacaglia · 02-19-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yes, although, of course, I didn't actually choose Lathum on N0. I have also been adamant about the worth of N0 scans (put them in a bucket and what do you have? a bucket), so I put absolutely no meaning (good or bad) into that N0 scan of Lathum or of anyone on anyone else's.

Chief, I already answered that like two minutes after he asked it! I got your back, dude. Uh, just don't worry about how my vote was on you most of the day...I got your back. Yeah.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yes, although, of course, I didn't actually choose Lathum on N0. I have also been adamant about the worth of N0 scans (put them in a bucket and what do you have? a bucket), so I put absolutely no meaning (good or bad) into that N0 scan of Lathum or of anyone on anyone else's.

I wasn't implicating you on anything, I just wasn't sure if I was reading it right or you were just clowning with me.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am now going to bow out of this game. I learned after the first one there is no point.

Once I return villager tonight look at DC and nfg22 as well as Render, NTN and ChiefRum.

I hope you're just being overly whiny and dramatic here. It would take more than three wolf scans for me to vote for you in a game like this. Thought you had more fight in you than this.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I meant I am not going to sink a ton of time and energy in my defense. Last incarnation of this game 2 people scanned me wolf the same night and I got lynched and I was a villager that game as well.

You know as well as I do what happens when mob mentality takes over. 3 people have claimed to have scanned me as a wolf, my odds of succesfully defending myself eventhough there is convincing evidence is slim to none. People are going to need an excuse to lynch someone.

Two people also scanned you as a villager. Man, it's like you're Tampa Devil Ray in May.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 07:02 PM

Chief, Lathum said that almost 11 hours ago. If you keep reading you will notice that he didn't bow out.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Everyone has some ability in this game and to be honest, I think a lot of these scans today are coming up wolf and statistically are balancing out the day 0 scans that peth sent out.

Bull. I don't know how the final numbers will come out when I catch up, but as of this post, it was 8 villager votes and 6 wolf votes. That's pretty close to what you would expect in a game where average accuracy is 50% and 25% of the field are wolves.

The N0 scans have nothing to do with today's scans. And unless you believe we rolled the lottery with the N0 scans, there was funny business going on that night. All scans came up villager--you have any idea how improbable that is?

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I hope you're just being overly whiny and dramatic here. It would take more than three wolf scans for me to vote for you in a game like this. Thought you had more fight in you than this.

And yet for the better part of the day the whine worked. Just saying...

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

Chief, Lathum said that almost 11 hours ago. If you keep reading you will notice that he didn't bow out.

Actually my response has nothing to do with his intent to bow out. It was with his crappy attitude. But thanks for letting me know.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

I wasn't implicating you on anything, I just wasn't sure if I was reading it right or you were just clowning with me.

lol, nope, no clowning. It just worked out with GRF's plan that I was to scan the same person I already had. Even if I accepted the N0 scans as legit, it is entirely likely to have those split scans by the same person of the same person.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The N0 scans have nothing to do with today's scans. And unless you believe we rolled the lottery with the N0 scans, there was funny business going on that night. All scans came up villager--you have any idea how improbable that is?

You are making one assumption that I am not sure we can make...we cannot be entirely sure that people were telling the truth with their N0 scans.

mauchow · 02-19-2008, 07:09 PM

Are we tied or does Lathum have one less vote than nfg?

Earlier I voted for nfg on a whim and now it'll look stupid if I vote for Lathum but it actually makes a little bit more sense to vote for him than nfg at this point. I'd like to stay out of this one because I don't really know about these two, but I think I'll go ahead and put a vote on Lathum.

unvote no lynch
vote lathum

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

no way.

Agreed. path wouldn't do something that obvious.

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 07:11 PM

I think its tied now.

nfg22 - 7 - Pumpy Tudors(598), Bsak16(628), MikeVic (757), claphamsa (770), Lathum (830), oliegirl (865), saldana (866)
Lathum - 7 - nfg22 (787), Barkeep49 (791), DodgerChick (800), Passacaglia (880), st.cronin (882), RendeR (887), mauboy1 (926)
No Lynch - 2 - The Jackal (736), SnDvls (762)
Passacaglia - 1 - ntndeacon(738)
Dodgerchick - 1 - jeheinz72 (764)

No vote: Chief Rum, Mr. Wednesday

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 07:11 PM

Wasnt I the one who also promoted throwing those scans out, even though they help the wolves? Didn't I also help with some minor statistics at the beggining? The one thing I did wrong, was sa the words "even though". Because of those two words, I am not ahead of Lathum who could help us the most and looks just as suspicious as me. Basically someone show me what I did.

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Are we tied or does Lathum have one less vote than nfg?

Earlier I voted for nfg on a whim and now it'll look stupid if I vote for Lathum but it actually makes a little bit more sense to vote for him than nfg at this point. I'd like to stay out of this one because I don't really know about these two, but I think I'll go ahead and put a vote on Lathum.

unvote no lynch
vote lathum

I don't follow. I don't think changing one's mind is stupid. It's just that I'm not sure what has changed your mind.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 07:13 PM

When Lathum gets lynched and comes up clean...there are going to be a lot of people with a lot explaining to do.

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

Wasnt I the one who also promoted throwing those scans out, even though they help the wolves? Didn't I also help with some minor statistics at the beggining? The one thing I did wrong, was sa the words "even though". Because of those two words, I am not ahead of Lathum who could help us the most and looks just as suspicious as me. Basically someone show me what I did.

The even though woman is voting for the other person. Don't get too hung up on those words having doomed you.

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

When Lathum gets lynched and comes up clean...there are going to be a lot of people with a lot explaining to do.

Really? Why?

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

Im not sold on NFG22 he seems like a n00b who is just playing poorly.... but thats just me. someone has to go....

Perhaps this has been illustrated further along, but this doesn't make sense to me at this point. I think nfg22 has been playing pretty well and been helpful. When I was putting up numbers and suggestions Sunday night, he was the one who I was bouncing them off of, and his POV seemed entirely reasonable. I didn't read anything yesterday (or thus far today) that makes me think otherwise.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I trust my scan that nfg22 is a wolf, but maybe more info will come out.

You shouldn't. I certainly don't trust my scan.

There is only one group that should trust their "scans" at this point, and that's wolves because they already know who the wolves are (path's "generally" aside).

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Perhaps this has been illustrated further along, but this doesn't make sense to me at this point. I think nfg22 has been playing pretty well and been helpful. When I was putting up numbers and suggestions Sunday night, he was the one who I was bouncing them off of, and his POV seemed entirely reasonable. I didn't read anything yesterday (or thus far today) that makes me think otherwise.

I would second this. I don't think nfg played like a newbie at all. I think he played in a way I'm not going to completely understand (as I think he was very much trying to draw attention to himself and I'm still not sure why) but I think he presented intelligence and reason behind the moves he made.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Really? Why?

I am keeping an eye on these late voters....the swing ones that will make the outcome.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

there has to be more then that out there still

No, he was right. There had been 14 scans announced, GRF is dead and mauboy1 and jeheinz were not able to participate in N1 scans. That's 17 of 21 original players, leaving 4 (the above four) unanswered for.

saldana · 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

1+2) This is not incorrect? you mean I am correct? Trying to make me look worse by using a double negative?

3+4) He implicated me and dodgerchick...the reason why dodgerchick is implicated is because she DEFENDED me. If she defended me then that means I had to of already been accused. Second, those two words were brought up by Lathum *cough* wolf *cough*.

Saldana...and to a lesser extent claph. You will be looked at as a wolf when you kill me because I cleared both of you...and then you turn your back on me....if I were a wolf. I would have picked a non-wolf and scanned them as a wolf.

i am not trying to do anything except point out that 2 of your 4 points were wrong

i said you were not incorrect because that is the accurate description of your points...if you would prefer to say they are correct, thats fine.

as far as your counter to 3 and 4, you are changin your story...you said lathum told us to vote for you...now you have not only been proven wrong, but you are avoiding the fact that you have been proven wrong by creating a different story.

and if those two words hadnt been brought up by lathum, they would have been brought up by me..if you notice, i was right there with him the entire time last night in questioning you and DC

as far as your "if i were a wolf, i would have picked a villager and given the wrong scan information as a means of gaining trust", are you nuts...how in the blue hell would that have gained you trust...that may actually be the worst counter argument i have ever seen.

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

When Lathum gets lynched and comes up clean...there are going to be a lot of people with a lot explaining to do.

Are you saying the argument for lynching Lathum doesn't make any sense? Because I think its quite compelling. If he comes up villager, we at least have a lot more data as to seer capability.

On the other hand, if nfg gets lynched and comes up clean, then I guess I agree with you. The case for him seems quite weak, especially when compared to the other choices.

Chief Rum · 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I forgot about MAu and Jheinze.

Oh, okay, ignore above.

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The even though woman is voting for the other person. Don't get too hung up on those words having doomed you.

BK...I dont know who the "even though" woman is, I assume you mean DC.

The situation with "even though" is that I said " I am down with that plan, even though I will be on the list"

Lathum then said I was a wolf because I didn't want to be on the list. Yet I didnt want to be on the list because of how inaccurate these scans are.

claphamsa · 02-19-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfg22

Yeah...well why would I clear you and claph if I were a wolf?

gotta say something....

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 07:19 PM

How many people have looked at nfg so far?

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 07:20 PM

Heck, I think even Lathum would concede that lynching Lathum makes sense.

Dr. Sak · 02-19-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Are you saying the argument for lynching Lathum doesn't make any sense? Because I think its quite compelling. If he comes up villager, we at least have a lot more data as to seer capability.

We might have more data, but it will be at the expense of another villager. But I guess if you are a wolf, you wouldn't care about this.

Barkeep49 · 02-19-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

We might have more data, but it will be at the expense of another villager. But I guess if you are a wolf, you wouldn't care about this.

So you're THAT convinced that one of Lathum or bsak is a wolf? Cause if both are wolves or neither are wolves lynching Lathum gives us the most and best information. Now if one but not the other is a wolf, I'd agree we should lynch the wolf over the non-wolf. But otherwise we're better off with more information rather than less.

Mr. Wednesday · 02-19-2008, 07:22 PM

We need information, and it will inevitably come at the expense of villagers.

st.cronin · 02-19-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

We might have more data, but it will be at the expense of another villager. But I guess if you are a wolf, you wouldn't care about this.

So, it seems like you think its much more likely that nfg is a wolf than Lathum. Please explain.

nfg22 · 02-19-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Heck, I think even Lathum would concede that lynching Lathum makes sense.

Lol...my bias aside...This is funny

02-19-2008, 06:53 PM	#910
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Dola, which is not to say that I think other people haven't been thinking seriously. nfg's idea was certainly a reasonable one to propose initially, even though I don't think the negative points about it were ever adequately addressed. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

02-19-2008, 07:11 PM	#928
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I think its tied now. nfg22 - 7 - Pumpy Tudors(598), Bsak16(628), MikeVic (757), claphamsa (770), Lathum (830), oliegirl (865), saldana (866) Lathum - 7 - nfg22 (787), Barkeep49 (791), DodgerChick (800), Passacaglia (880), st.cronin (882), RendeR (887), mauboy1 (926) No Lynch - 2 - The Jackal (736), SnDvls (762) Passacaglia - 1 - ntndeacon(738) Dodgerchick - 1 - jeheinz72 (764) No vote: Chief Rum, Mr. Wednesday __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

02-19-2008, 07:19 PM	#944
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	How many people have looked at nfg so far? __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

02-19-2008, 07:20 PM	#945
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Heck, I think even Lathum would concede that lynching Lathum makes sense. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

02-19-2008, 07:22 PM	#948
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	We need information, and it will inevitably come at the expense of villagers. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

02-19-2008, 06:54 PM	#912
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Mr. W. that isnt a contribution. He only said I didnt have a plan that would work. He didnt propose one. We need to organize. Thats my plan.

02-19-2008, 07:02 PM	#920
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Chief, Lathum said that almost 11 hours ago. If you keep reading you will notice that he didn't bow out.

02-19-2008, 07:09 PM	#926
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Are we tied or does Lathum have one less vote than nfg? Earlier I voted for nfg on a whim and now it'll look stupid if I vote for Lathum but it actually makes a little bit more sense to vote for him than nfg at this point. I'd like to stay out of this one because I don't really know about these two, but I think I'll go ahead and put a vote on Lathum. unvote no lynch vote lathum

02-19-2008, 07:11 PM	#929
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Wasnt I the one who also promoted throwing those scans out, even though they help the wolves? Didn't I also help with some minor statistics at the beggining? The one thing I did wrong, was sa the words "even though". Because of those two words, I am not ahead of Lathum who could help us the most and looks just as suspicious as me. Basically someone show me what I did.

02-19-2008, 07:13 PM	#931
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	When Lathum gets lynched and comes up clean...there are going to be a lot of people with a lot explaining to do.

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