AFGM-->BTS (Francis Cole/OOTPDev Football Game Project)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

you asked for suggestions on articles . I would be very interested to see how gameplanning is handled. also would be interested in league customizability and stat customizability ie can different eras be replicated and is it possible to win with vastly different offensive and defensive strategies. I gotta say, all of this is looking great! very excited to see more screenshots etc

We should all be having this convo on the website to drive traffic there/increase the future profitability of the game for Francis.

[FLC28]

I bet this is something where if it went up on kickstarter you'd be flooded

As this is unlicensed (as most games of this ilk are) I'm kind of stuck in between not wanting it to be so famous EA/NFL shut it down. But obviously on the other hand I hope to make it my living, so need for it to be well known

Looking at games like OOTP, and even FOF here it seems that stats/player names can be used. Team names seem to be an issue a lot of people have talked about to me, but as far as I know OOTP/FOF/etc use real team names.
I think worst case scenario I would just have to call the team by the town name and miss off the nickname.

[FLC28]

I would be very interested to see how gameplanning is handled.

Great question, thank you.
If the user doesn't choose to call the plays, then the AI does. The AI calls the plays in the same way (though obviously calls the players based on the strengths of the team involved, Packers are going to pass more because they have Rodgers etc, a team facing a top RB is going to defend the run more than if they were playing a team with a rubbish RB etc).

Currently (and I think this will remain for the first version) there are no coaches in the game, so I can't say this team prefers a (e.g)west-coast type of offence as I don't have any data to support that.

When coaches enter the game they will have the stats to say what type of offence/defence they prefer and then I think I can expand extensive game planning a lot more.
I hope that answers your question

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by FLC28

As this is unlicensed (as most games of this ilk are) I'm kind of stuck in between not wanting it to be so famous EA/NFL shut it down. But obviously on the other hand I hope to make it my living, so need for it to be well known

Looking at games like OOTP, and even FOF here it seems that stats/player names can be used. Team names seem to be an issue a lot of people have talked about to me, but as far as I know OOTP/FOF/etc use real team names.
I think worst case scenario I would just have to call the team by the town name and miss of the nickname.

Yeah - if I recall (although I'm sure others will know better - talk to Gary Gorski of Wolverine or the OOTP guys), that's exactly it. Make a messed-up nickname and then just make the nickname files (and the graphics for logos etc) user-editable.

[FLC28]

and stat customizability ie can different eras be replicated

Another great question.

I have not thought a great deal on this, though the game was setup from the start so that if in the future I want to have historic seasons it's already kind of setup for that*

I think (I should say I hope), I can (mainly)achieve this by altering the attributes of the players/the ratio of plays called/the rules rather than the Match Engine/Fixture Engine internals it self.

I have done a few stuff on College already, and (forgetting the rule changes from NFL/NCAA) that can mainly be done by giving the players a lot lower attributes, rather than changing the engine itself.

Hopefully that makes some sense!

*Any data prior 2000 will need to be done for historical leagues before 2000, and the NFL divisions changed in 2002 (off the top of my head, due to the Houston expansion?), so I'd have to re-do the algorithm which creates schedules for a league prior 2002.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Thanks for answering the questions! Looking forward to this one.

[ColtCrazy]

Looks astounding. Between this and the upcoming FM, I foresee lots of late nights in my future.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - if I recall (although I'm sure others will know better - talk to Gary Gorski of Wolverine or the OOTP guys), that's exactly it. Make a messed-up nickname and then just make the nickname files (and the graphics for logos etc) user-editable.

"Wolverine Studios, in compliance with the federal Lanham Act, makes no claim of any endorsement of this product by any entity. Fair use of player names has been outlined in the judgment in the case of C.B.C. Distribution and Marketing Inc. v. Major League Baseball Advanced Media and Major League
Baseball Players’ Association, United States District Court, Eastern Division of Missouri, 2006."

This was WS legal notice that we used to show the relevant court case.
You can use a player name and/or city name but not a likeness or team name. "Dallas" is ok, "Dallas Cowboys" is not.

[FLC28]

I'll have to get in touch with Markus, as OOTP does use the full names (e.g. Texas Rangers), so I wonder how he does it

Thanks for all the comments all.

[Dutch]

Good luck, looks great.

Now about those pesky game engine designs, that was no doubt a lot of hard work at SI (is that still right to say?) by people that know football, so getting that level of detail in American Football will be extremely tough.

Things to consider that we Americans know intimately well.

The position specific player development model from rookie to superstar to decline and then retirement.

The importance of each player of the field from QB to Punter.

The cause and effects of having an aggressive offensive gameplan or an aggressive defensive gameplan.

The differences between a 3-step, 5-step, and 7-step drop back by the quarterback....(short, quick pass; standard pro passing; more check-down or long ball opportunities).

The ability to have good lineman and tactics to pick up blitzes and allow QBs to scramble or step up in the pocket to gain additional time.

The value of a heavyweight tackling LB (MLB) vs a lightweight coverage/blitzing OLB. Too much weight and you start to open up the middle of the field passing lanes....too little weight and those big bruising RB's can start to wear out that defense.

There are just so many options to think about....I'm sure the same is said about football (soccer).

Anyway, pick some areas of the game to really tighten down and don't tackle it all at once and I think you'll be on to something one day.

I know Jim focuses on making sure the stats were legit and player development modeling and those two things sure make it realistic in appearance. But there really isn't a whole lot of "football strategy" in Jim's games which you might be able to lock down better.

[FLC28]

The only thing on that list which hasn't been done is the aggressive game plan stuff.

The 3-5-7 drop back (and how well the QB does it) was one if the very first things I did

[Dutch]

I look forward to it, no doubt.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by FLC28

I'll have to get in touch with Markus, as OOTP does use the full names (e.g. Texas Rangers), so I wonder how he does it

Thanks for all the comments all.

OOTP doesn't use them.. IE.. they have members do that as a "mod" which is legal.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by FLC28

A new (brief) article on the trouble between making the game as realistic as possible, and also making it fun for the user to play.

Football GM | The Development of the 'Football GM' Game

If anyone has any ideas for what they would like to read about in the future let me know. I'm not sure if I should go down a more technical route on how things are done or not.

Thanks everyone

I can appreciate that. I enjoy sims mostly for the career development aspect.

[FLC28]

A quick article on the different Color Schemes in Football GM.
Thanks everyone!

Color Schemes | Football GM

[bhlloy]

One of the fun things about football (moreso than any other sport I can think of) is the aspect of finding diamonds in the rough, some of which can become some of the biggest stars in the game. IMO it's something FOF never really modeled, even with random boom/bust. Are you hoping to model that with training camp and a large number of undrafted FA every year - the reason I ask is the Jets salary cap screenshot makes me hope you are (Vidal Hazelton sighting!)

[FLC28]

The offSeason roster size will be 90, allowing you (and the AI sides) to sign lots of UFA!

One of the main things I plan to help you in the regard of finding those "diamonds in the rough" is the scouting, namely that the attributes you see on a player's screen isn't actually his "proper" attributes (especially for players which are 'unknown'), it's your perception of him.

In game terms if you do no scouting on a college player, perhaps you just have a try-out, the attributes you think the player has could be very differently to a team which scouted the player lots and lots.

I'll talk about scouting lots more in a future article.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by FLC28

The offSeason roster size will be 90, allowing you (and the AI sides) to sign lots of UFA!

One of the main things I plan to help you in the regard of finding those "diamonds in the rough" is the scouting, namely that the attributes you see on a player's screen isn't actually his "proper" attributes (especially for players which are 'unknown'), it's your perception of him.

In game terms if you do no scouting on a college player, perhaps you just have a try-out, the attributes you think the player has could be very differently to a team which scouted the player lots and lots.

I'll talk about scouting lots more in a future article.

This sounds very exciting for me.

I have always had hopes of an FM style game, whether it be football or football if get what I mean, where first scouting tells you the obvious such as pace, strength, etc, and maybe a wide range for attributes like QB accuracy, catching, hole recognition etc. then as you scout more and more, these more subjective ratings get whittled down to a more accurate range/number. This sounds like it is pretty close to that.

Put me down as more interested all of a sudden

[SplitPersonality1]

Just found this. Looks great so far. In for testing as well.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by FLC28

The offSeason roster size will be 90, allowing you (and the AI sides) to sign lots of UFA!

One of the main things I plan to help you in the regard of finding those "diamonds in the rough" is the scouting, namely that the attributes you see on a player's screen isn't actually his "proper" attributes (especially for players which are 'unknown'), it's your perception of him.

In game terms if you do no scouting on a college player, perhaps you just have a try-out, the attributes you think the player has could be very differently to a team which scouted the player lots and lots.

I'll talk about scouting lots more in a future article.

This is exactly what I'd hoped to hear, very excited about this

[Markus Heinsohn]

Good luck with the project Fran Greetings from Germany!

Cheers,
Markus

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by FLC28

The offSeason roster size will be 90, allowing you (and the AI sides) to sign lots of UFA!

One of the main things I plan to help you in the regard of finding those "diamonds in the rough" is the scouting, namely that the attributes you see on a player's screen isn't actually his "proper" attributes (especially for players which are 'unknown'), it's your perception of him.

In game terms if you do no scouting on a college player, perhaps you just have a try-out, the attributes you think the player has could be very differently to a team which scouted the player lots and lots.

I'll talk about scouting lots more in a future article.

Are you planning to have coach ability impact player ceiling?

[FLC28]

Are you planning to have coach ability impact player ceiling?

Currently (due to time) I don't plan to have coaches in the first version. However when are in they should do something like this.

Now, if a coach can (on a technical low level basis) adjust the ceiling of a player, or simply allow the player to reach a level that no-one could have seen considering where the players started is a matter which needs careful consideration. There are pros and cons for each argument.

[FLC28]

I've had a few PMs and emails about this, so I just want to let everyone know that this is still on going, I have not given up, and it certainly is coming out.

A few people seemed to think it had been abandoned, it hasn't!

After all, no news is good (amazing) news right?

I'd start to pay attention sometime early 2014

[DaddyTorgo]

WOO!!!

Have you thought about doing Steam Greenlight and/or Kickstarter or something to amp up the visibility and get some pre-sales and buzz?

[FLC28]

Apologies, but I'm really not allowed to talk about it at this moment in time.

I wanted to say at least something though incase you all thought it had been abandoned!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by FLC28

Apologies, but I'm really not allowed to talk about it at this moment in time.

I wanted to say at least something though incase you all thought it had been abandoned!

Interesting - I like the sound of that!!

I know what I'm thinking, but obviously you can't comment. It seems like it'd be a natural fit though.

[Karim]

Missed this the first time around. The prospects are tantalizing and would be a dream come true if pulled off. An FM-style game for the NFL is what many of us have dreamed about.

I've never supported a KickStarter project but definitely would if that the direction it goes.

[djsatu]

Will we be able to load team logos, player photo's easily like in FM?

[FLC28]

Will we be able to load team logos, player photo's easily like in FM?

That would be pretty great wouldn't it.

[FLC28]

1/31

[DaddyTorgo]

is when we'll be hearing more news from you?

[Julio Riddols]

I have to wait til the 1st of Jantobuary? I don't even have a 31 month calendar handy to see how long it is until then.

[FLC28]

fixed that for you

[PilotMan]

Sweetness, can't wait.

[Julio Riddols]

Between this and FOF 7 I am going to lose my football mind. I like it.

[chelm123456789]

I typically just lurk forums reading and getting a feel for how things are progressing. Thanks to Julio I heard about this. I'm a big fan of SI's Football Manager and hopefully this can have some of the same feel except for it being American Football.

[FLC28]

I hope so too, and thank you to Julio for spreading the word.
Stay tuned next week!

(end of Jan next week, where has the month gone?!)

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Getting more excited!!!

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3633501

[FLC28]

me too.....

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by FLC28

me too.....

Tease...

[EagleFan]

Though I will warn you...

If BTS stands for Beer Tent Simulator there will be a revolt...

[Julio Riddols]

I just hope the S doesn't stand for Saga.

[SirBlurton]

I've been really excited to read more about this game but have to admit the potential OOTP Developments connection worries me. OOTP is a great product, but the FHM release was an abomination...

I know this would be a different programmer, so hopefully a different result too! Everything I've seen so far in regard this this game is exciting - so really hope that continues!

Looking forward to the announcement!

[Toddzilla]

I didn't know OOTP was working on an American pro football simulation, but they posted something on Facebook expressing dismay that "proprietary materials" was "stolen" from their "offices".

They then link to an Operation Sports page that has a short video and a preliminary feature list.

I'm not going to repost the info or link here in the *tineiest of miniscule, microscopic chances* that it's an actual leak.

However, it looks good

[vex]

Writing an (American) Football Management Game - by Francis Cole - Front Office Football Central

[FLC28]

It's okay Toddzilla. You won't get into trouble

[Berger]

Getting excited

[Toddzilla]

sigh - deleting thread.....dammit!

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I wouldn't delete it, I'm sure people who didn't click on the first thread would be interested.