Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2020, 09:29 AM   #1
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I feel bad for me 4 years ago

So 4 years ago my local baseball league for my son was just odd. Weird trades were occurring. Weird practice situations. Weird rule interpretations midgame. Weird roster choices. Just weird and I always left perplexed every season why things were happening as they were.

This past summer I'd had enough and volunteered to be commissioner, in essence, usurping the commissioner that had been in place. Fast forward 8 months and now I feel bad for the me of 4 years ago and all of the other REC parents who don't understand the manipulative, conniving, backstabbing, shit that goes on.

Broadly the league looks like this:

AB Baseball is where the 12-14 best players who come out for evaluation go on this team and get extra practice, extra games, some extra tournaments, and extra reps.

The B Team are the players who just missed this AB team but are better then REC and want to get extra work to develop.

Rec is for beginners and those who are trying it out.


Well if you don't go out for the AB evaluations you cannot play AB or B, just REC. It's a qualifier.

This season we replaced the AB coach (who's a nice guy but was unknowingly being manipulated by a guy over him that we are starting to believe has some sort of ulterior motives) with a great coach. This apparently riles up parents of kids who were shoo-ins for the AB Team under the previous coach. They don't come out for evals...

The previous AB coach volunteers to coach a REC team. Thank you, that's a thankless job. However, there's now a sinking feeling that the kids that skipped the AB evaluations AND the Rec Evaluations [their parents] were conspiring to hide their kids from coaches who might not know who the kids are so that the former AB coach can snatch up a bunch of them at the draft (which he did) and run roughshod over the entire REC division. Now there's been trade requests for carpooling issues etc. The kids on other teams don't get to be with that coach which means less good coaching at the median. If it was dumb luck that'd been one thing but the preplanning I learned about at a kid's party last night tweaked me enough to write this.

We're starting to think that this REC coach intends to beat up on rec and then take the team and kids to another league somewhere around. Not sure but things feel weird.

My son was the 24th kid and tried out for AB. So he should be on the B team. Cool. Well, I'm not one of the parents in the clique so the coach decides that instead of taking the normal 12 he's only going to take 11. The board (I'm not on the board) is irritated but there's nothing in the rules that says he can't. He says he only wants to field 11 for games. I have no objection. It is totally his choice and my son left it in the judge's scorecards and didn't make the cut. I just throw out the idea that my son simply gets to practice and be a reserve and if a kid on the team goes on vacation or gets sick, my son will be ready to come in and play whatever role he wants. No expectations just really the practice reps and extra practice work would do any kid well. Actually some board members think he should have 3 or 4 kids extra at practices in roles like this. He says that he thinks that having 1 extra reserve is a good idea and the board tells him to call me and explain the role (which I already know about and think it's great). No call.... days, no call. The board members are flabbergasted he hasn't called yet. I just feel a ton of anxiety for my son because the B coach is very good and I think getting that practice time with him and his team would be awesome for him. Games are minor in this regard and so much less valuable than the practices to my son.

I look back on myself 4 years ago and am starting to see how this garbage is toxic bleeding going on in this age group.

Just venting this morning after a sleepless night.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL

Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 10:32 AM   #2
Lathum
Favored Bitch #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
My son has next to no interest in team sports and shit like this makes me glad he doesn't. Our town is a factory. State champs in football, youth development leagues, etc...Its all so stupid. The parents ruin it.

He does American Ninja Warrior and loves it. My daughter does gymnastics. They both do rec indoor soccer because we make them. People even suck with that. The rule is no travelling team kids. Last night my sons team played against a team where the kids were obviously WAY better fundamentally. It was 3-0 four minutes in. My buddy, whos son is on my team, pointed to the other teams sideline and there were a bunch of bags from a local travel team. I don't get the point of them being in the rec league. all they learn is it is ok to crush kids who arent as good as they are. My son was pretty discouraged after.
Lathum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 11:35 AM   #3
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I rattled the board members I know and they reached out and he finally called a few hours before the first practice. He laid out the expectations that he be a reserve player and not ready for game roster and I was agreeable if not ecstatic. I complimented him on his coaching that I've seen and mentioned that I've heard from others that he's a very good coach too. He was nice and I reiterated that there's no expectations beyond reps at practice and he said not to worry that he will get better. I was thankful and let him know that.

A lot of anxiety the last 5 days awaiting that call. I'm sure from his perspective a parent having their kid be a 'practice squad' player can be a recipe for disaster in that the pare3nt applies undue pressure to lift the kid to regular roster. I can't let him know that that's not me with just words. It'll have to be shown.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 12:03 PM   #4
PilotMan
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
My stress level is so much lower that my kids really didn't have an interest in sports. Yeah, they played younger, gave them something to do, and see if they liked it, but when it came right down to it, they were happy just going on a day trip and family play in a park, than to deal with the formal games. I completely applaud your efforts, and attitude. It's the way that I approached my leadership in our HOA, even when other people were constantly trying to say what my 'ulterior motives' were, when there were none, just to make things better and right.



All that internal politicking is extra strain. If you've got a coach and parents who are pulling all that because they are loyal to a coach who got demoted, but things weren't on the up and up, then good riddance. Blast that all over town. I imagine that this is more the norm with sports now a days. If they can't see what was going on, and they want to support a corrupt system, then they get what they deserve.
__________________
Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

Need an FOFC Alternative? Try the forum over in the FOFC Steam group.
Direct link to the group above or Google FOFConSteam.

FOFC Steam has group chat available at all times.

PilotMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 12:06 PM   #5
Warhammer
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Agreed, as a 14 year coach of soccer, parents ruin sports for kids. I also maintain that the select and travel teams do as well.

My own grading system for my success was not wins (although that was nice), but were the kids playing better at the end of the year than the beginning (which mean they learned something), and how many of them played again the next year (which means they enjoyed it).
Warhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 12:33 PM   #6
spleen1015
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
I wish you lots of luck Flasch. I'm glad this worked out for your son.

I have lived this life with my daughter. First as the tournament director for our local travel softball program and now as the president of the softball booster club for my daughter's high school.

There are a lot of crazy parents out there.
__________________
Why choose failure when success is an option?
spleen1015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 07:51 PM   #7
Atocep
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tacoma
Out of curiosity, what age group?

I've gone through it all as my son came up through the local rec T-ball league into Pony, into select, and then into national level travel ball. I went from parent/assistant coach to coaching, to coaching and being the vice president of our Pony League, to coaching a select team, to saying "screw it" it's time for someone else to coach my kid. This is my son's senior year and this summer will be my 5th summer as a parent only. I've been asked multiple times about a return to coaching and I have absolutely zero interest in ever doing so.

By far the worst age group, from my experience is the 8-10 range. For 90% of these parents there's no convincing them that their kid isn't the next best thing because X select team offered their child a spot. What they don't realize is that select team needs someone that's going to pay their player fee without challenging the core talent for playing time. The biggest parent red flag in this age group is parents that bring their mitt out to the first practice and are throwing with their kid before that first practice. Make mental note of these parents. There's more than a 90% chance they're going to be a pain in the ass.

10-12 is much of the same, but not as bad. This is the age group where those that are good enough have moved on to select and those pain in the ass parents that can afford it have been sold on taking the 13th roster spot on a select team and become someone else's problem.

Your average select program is still a nightmare with many of the same issues. It wasn't until my son was on a nationally ranked travel team that most of the politics and BS was gone. The kids are hand selected with no tryout and everyone is good enough to play and therefore everyone plays. I believe last year's team had 1 problem parent and they're not back this year. At that level it doesn't matter how good your kid is, if you rock the boat too much they'll find someone else.

In all, I think I've seen just about everything there is to see. I've seen the disorganized board that I volunteered to join, I've seen the shady coaches, I've seen the teams that try to stack rosters and then take those players to select, I've seen the nightmare parents.

We moved into a relatively exclusive upper-middle class neighborhood when my son was in the 8th grade and I watched him get cut from the 8th grade team because he was an outsider. High school has been a bit better, but not much. He hit nearly .600 with a couple of homers and averaged over an extra base hit per game as a sophomore on JV and didn't get a Varsity AB for a team that was struggle to score runs. Last year as a Junior he started the year hitting cleanup and got a hit in each of the first 5 games before being benched for no reason until the last week of the regular season. As it stands he has about 30 varsity plate appearances but because of his time on the nationally ranked travel team he's been fortunate enough to receive a scholarship to continue playing in college.

Youth sports sucks at all levels. The youngest levels are the worst, but anyone that tells you that politics don't exist at the high school level because those coaches are paid to win and can be fired are full of shit.

Last edited by Atocep : 01-19-2020 at 07:52 PM.
Atocep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 09:58 PM   #8
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atocep View Post
anyone that tells you that politics don't exist at the high school level because those coaches are paid to win and can be fired are full of shit.

Or they're part of the politics and don't even realize they're who represent the problem.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 12:16 AM   #9
MrBug708
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
My son is about to start T-Ball and the local league is promising "free registration". The fine print is selling $200 dollars in raffle tickets at 10 dollars a pop. Can I just pay for registration instead?
__________________
Richard Karstark - Ruler of Karhold - Bannerman of House Stark

KKiTTLeS21: UCLA r0x d00d, #1
MrBug708 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 09:34 AM   #10
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atocep View Post
Out of curiosity, what age group?

I've gone through it all as my son came up through the local rec T-ball league into Pony, into select, and then into national level travel ball. I went from parent/assistant coach to coaching, to coaching and being the vice president of our Pony League, to coaching a select team, to saying "screw it" it's time for someone else to coach my kid. This is my son's senior year and this summer will be my 5th summer as a parent only. I've been asked multiple times about a return to coaching and I have absolutely zero interest in ever doing so.

By far the worst age group, from my experience is the 8-10 range. For 90% of these parents there's no convincing them that their kid isn't the next best thing because X select team offered their child a spot. What they don't realize is that select team needs someone that's going to pay their player fee without challenging the core talent for playing time. The biggest parent red flag in this age group is parents that bring their mitt out to the first practice and are throwing with their kid before that first practice. Make mental note of these parents. There's more than a 90% chance they're going to be a pain in the ass.

10-12 is much of the same, but not as bad. This is the age group where those that are good enough have moved on to select and those pain in the ass parents that can afford it have been sold on taking the 13th roster spot on a select team and become someone else's problem.

Your average select program is still a nightmare with many of the same issues. It wasn't until my son was on a nationally ranked travel team that most of the politics and BS was gone. The kids are hand selected with no tryout and everyone is good enough to play and therefore everyone plays. I believe last year's team had 1 problem parent and they're not back this year. At that level it doesn't matter how good your kid is, if you rock the boat too much they'll find someone else.

In all, I think I've seen just about everything there is to see. I've seen the disorganized board that I volunteered to join, I've seen the shady coaches, I've seen the teams that try to stack rosters and then take those players to select, I've seen the nightmare parents.

We moved into a relatively exclusive upper-middle class neighborhood when my son was in the 8th grade and I watched him get cut from the 8th grade team because he was an outsider. High school has been a bit better, but not much. He hit nearly .600 with a couple of homers and averaged over an extra base hit per game as a sophomore on JV and didn't get a Varsity AB for a team that was struggle to score runs. Last year as a Junior he started the year hitting cleanup and got a hit in each of the first 5 games before being benched for no reason until the last week of the regular season. As it stands he has about 30 varsity plate appearances but because of his time on the nationally ranked travel team he's been fortunate enough to receive a scholarship to continue playing in college.

Youth sports sucks at all levels. The youngest levels are the worst, but anyone that tells you that politics don't exist at the high school level because those coaches are paid to win and can be fired are full of shit.

It's 10U

We have a weird dynamic in here. There was a guy at 11U ahead of me who is addicted to the baseball field. Everyone bowed to him which is what the last 10U AB coach did and while the team lost (no big deal to me) he also got too many emails of bad feedback. When we interviewed for a new AB coach this fall even the guy's asst. coach, during his interview threw the AB coach under the bus. That asst is now my son's head coach for the B team. The AB coach is the one who's now pulling strings and conspiring on a REC team in my division I'm commissioner of. The Addict melted down this spring after a histroy of mini meltdowns. This spring, he disappeared with the player evals while everyone needed them to process the team selections, then he didnt show for his rec draft where he is a coach as required and his answer to texts chasing him down was, "I was busy." So they took all responsibility away from him other than his AB team and they're going to show him the door at the end of the season.

Mind you the coach I brought back to interview for the AB job that he got at 10U is one of the best coaches in the area. He is a great coach and connects with kids. The problem is he's a bit of a hothead with Umps AND he doesn't put up with other coaches garbage (like I saw time and again) and he calls people out. So he once got into a heated argument with the commissioner of the position I'm now in and left the league because at that time that commissioner hadn't exposed himself to the board and they believed his BS. The first thing I did, day 1 was call that coach and beg him to come back and that things would be different. Almost within 10 minutes of me calling him, the previous commissioner called me to throw his support to me and let me know that he's here to help me any way he can. Oh, and one thing to never ever do is bring back that coach that left. Ha.

To the personal story, Aiden went out to the B team practice and had the practice of his life. Not an A team like practice BUT showed the coaches that he could play on that team or at least be there to step in if a kid gets sick etc. He did it all right even his attitude was great. Afterward, the asst I know complimented Aiden's play with a He did great and the coaches were overwhelmingly effusive about his play at their coach's meeting after practice. The HC is very good. Very good and while he has orbited the bad guys the last few years you can tell he was around them because he had to because his son is very good and he's a very good coach. He's no-nonsense. Yes Sir no, sir. While he has a chip on his shoulder because his son was left off A team by one spot, he's going to really help the B team a lot my son on it or not.

It just sucks that there's so much politicking and conspiring going on behind the scenes that over the last 3-4 years has hurt the league and the reputation of the league suffered. Now we're building it back and adding that coach was a huge boon. This coach is a boon. We've added to the rep by boxing in the bad apple and I feel like it's turning around. I just wished I'd known what was actually happening 4 years ago but I was so naive. I just didnt know that this would go on in rec baseball.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL

Last edited by Flasch186 : 01-20-2020 at 09:36 AM.
Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 10:54 AM   #11
Arles
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
I've been the VP of Operations for our local Little League for two years. Working with the president, we've setup a pretty good set of procedures and rules that everyone seems to be following (to prevent that kind of chaos). I will be off the board in the fall, and my hope is the next guy just follows what we have.

I've been involved with both Little league and Pony and think Little League is far superior. It may just be a result of our area, but there's such a better national infrastructure there. We are joining a Brazilian soccer team/league as well this spring and I will see how that goes. Youth sports is a minefield and the corruption/shadiness is pretty prevalent. Outside of joining a board or coaching yourself, I'm not really sure how you avoid it.
__________________
Developer of Bowl Bound College Football
http://www.greydogsoftware.com
Arles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 03:04 PM   #12
Atocep
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tacoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arles View Post
I've been the VP of Operations for our local Little League for two years. Working with the president, we've setup a pretty good set of procedures and rules that everyone seems to be following (to prevent that kind of chaos). I will be off the board in the fall, and my hope is the next guy just follows what we have.

I've been involved with both Little league and Pony and think Little League is far superior. It may just be a result of our area, but there's such a better national infrastructure there. We are joining a Brazilian soccer team/league as well this spring and I will see how that goes. Youth sports is a minefield and the corruption/shadiness is pretty prevalent. Outside of joining a board or coaching yourself, I'm not really sure how you avoid it.

Little league has died off here a few years ago and every attempt to bring it back has failed except on the north end of Tacoma where they keep it rather exclusive. I like the organization that Little League brings, but parents in this area tend to want something more competitive. Tacoma PONY died off 5-6 years ago when their President was indicted for using the league as a personal bank account.

The PONY league I was VP of went from the brink of death to expanding and thriving before the local sports director at the city's parks and rec department decided he was going to create a competitive baseball league. Rather than work with the other leagues in the area he tried to undercut prices and leverage his access to city fields. He gutted our league, ran his league for 3 years, and his league was folded last year when he was promoted out of his sports director position and the guy that replaced him had no interest in maintaining a competitive baseball league.

What we're left with at this point is Rec level baseball in Tacoma (pop:215k) and Lakewood (pop: 60k) through 12u. After 12u your only real option is highly competitive select baseball based out of Seattle.
Atocep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 03:25 PM   #13
Atocep
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tacoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flasch186 View Post
It's 10U

We have a weird dynamic in here. There was a guy at 11U ahead of me who is addicted to the baseball field. Everyone bowed to him which is what the last 10U AB coach did and while the team lost (no big deal to me) he also got too many emails of bad feedback. When we interviewed for a new AB coach this fall even the guy's asst. coach, during his interview threw the AB coach under the bus. That asst is now my son's head coach for the B team. The AB coach is the one who's now pulling strings and conspiring on a REC team in my division I'm commissioner of. The Addict melted down this spring after a histroy of mini meltdowns. This spring, he disappeared with the player evals while everyone needed them to process the team selections, then he didnt show for his rec draft where he is a coach as required and his answer to texts chasing him down was, "I was busy." So they took all responsibility away from him other than his AB team and they're going to show him the door at the end of the season.

Mind you the coach I brought back to interview for the AB job that he got at 10U is one of the best coaches in the area. He is a great coach and connects with kids. The problem is he's a bit of a hothead with Umps AND he doesn't put up with other coaches garbage (like I saw time and again) and he calls people out. So he once got into a heated argument with the commissioner of the position I'm now in and left the league because at that time that commissioner hadn't exposed himself to the board and they believed his BS. The first thing I did, day 1 was call that coach and beg him to come back and that things would be different. Almost within 10 minutes of me calling him, the previous commissioner called me to throw his support to me and let me know that he's here to help me any way he can. Oh, and one thing to never ever do is bring back that coach that left. Ha.

To the personal story, Aiden went out to the B team practice and had the practice of his life. Not an A team like practice BUT showed the coaches that he could play on that team or at least be there to step in if a kid gets sick etc. He did it all right even his attitude was great. Afterward, the asst I know complimented Aiden's play with a He did great and the coaches were overwhelmingly effusive about his play at their coach's meeting after practice. The HC is very good. Very good and while he has orbited the bad guys the last few years you can tell he was around them because he had to because his son is very good and he's a very good coach. He's no-nonsense. Yes Sir no, sir. While he has a chip on his shoulder because his son was left off A team by one spot, he's going to really help the B team a lot my son on it or not.

It just sucks that there's so much politicking and conspiring going on behind the scenes that over the last 3-4 years has hurt the league and the reputation of the league suffered. Now we're building it back and adding that coach was a huge boon. This coach is a boon. We've added to the rep by boxing in the bad apple and I feel like it's turning around. I just wished I'd known what was actually happening 4 years ago but I was so naive. I just didnt know that this would go on in rec baseball.


It sounds like things are working out for your kid and you're doing what you can to improve the league. You're doing what an incredibly small percentage of people are willing to do.

As for conspiring and politicking, I mentioned the Tacoma PONY president in the post above:

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/...e32689899.html

So it could be far worse. What's frustrating reading that article is Ken Hawkins speaks about the damage that was caused to baseball in Tacoma.
Myself and our board President had a meeting with him prior to the shit hitting the fan because the (later indicted) Tacoma PONY President filed a complaint on our league because we refused to play his teams. Everyone knew what was going on, but regional PONY didn't care at the time because he had just taken a team to PONY nationals the year before. We were scolded and told to do a better job working with his league.
Atocep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2020, 08:48 PM   #14
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I feel bad for me 4 years ago

Side note, we combined 9u & 10u this year

My son, a big 10 yr old, was drafted by a guy that only knew 9u kids and drafted almost exclusively 9u outside of my son and one other so our team is going to get throttled. It’ll be good for him. He’ll get to understand losing lessons and then get the extra reps with the B team and their really good coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL

Last edited by Flasch186 : 01-21-2020 at 08:49 PM.
Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 06:36 PM   #15
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Aiden continues to put together good practices including winning the coach's top 3 award for today's practice.

The feedback about the A coach and the B coach has been great. The changes wer made to the league's coaching staff at 10U seems to be paying dividends for everyone in the league. I don't know where the MIA meltdown guy is but he seems to not be doing anything at the moment.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 08:23 PM   #16
miami_fan
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flasch186 View Post
Side note, we combined 9u & 10u this year

My son, a big 10 yr old, was drafted by a guy that only knew 9u kids and drafted almost exclusively 9u outside of my son and one other so our team is going to get throttled. It’ll be good for him. He’ll get to understand losing lessons and then get the extra reps with the B team and their really good coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My son went through this process in the fall. The team he ended up only won one game. He was extremely frustrated on the rides home but he did learn a great deal about being a leader around the team.
__________________
I introduce to you the 2018-2019 NBA champion, Jeremy Lin!
miami_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2020, 07:57 AM   #17
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I called my friend on the board to update him on how good this B coach is. He’s great. His practices are awesome and he really runs a tight ship that the kids live up to. When I was done the board member asked if I’d heard from the coach. I hadn’t. He told me not to say anything but about an hour before my call the coach has emailed him about Aiden...

Aiden, he says in his email that the coaches have determined, is in the middle tier of talent on the team and they intend to officially add him to the roster and make him available in games!

Those lowered expectations gave him some breathing room to exceed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2020, 12:50 AM   #18
Chief Rum
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Where Hip Hop lives
That's awesome. Way to go Aiden!
__________________
.
.

I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.
Chief Rum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.