NFL 2019 Season Thread

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm not sure it's a bad matchup as much the Packers just aren't very good. They may be one of the least deserving 13-3 teams ever.

I can't really think of many (any?) games where Green Bay was impressive this year. Maybe against the Vikings late in the year, but Minnesota is a much different team with a healthy Dalvin Cook.

It's disappointing this is the regular season rematch we ended up with, rather than the Saints or even the Seahawks. At least Russell Wilson gives any team a chance, regardless of how injured they are.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Great run by nether Titans and Vrabel but in the end they one wore down and two the NFL made sure they did win. Good luck 49ers .

Twitter

I could be wrong, but that looks like an illegal formation to me, which the line judge would be responsible for calling (the umpire typically makes holding calls). I'm sure a hold was also called on the play, but the illegal formation would be why the flag was immediately thrown there.

[Edward64]

Watching the game now on Sling so not sure if same on your service.

I am noticing that sometimes the resolution is really good when they are showing the sideline but the resolution on the field during a play is pretty bad. I've got a 4K TV and know they are not showing this on 4K resolution but the difference between sidelines and on the field is pretty apparent to me.

Anyone else notice this?

[bronconick]

If Tennessee had won and played this San Fran team, the Super Bowl might have been only 2.5 hours long. All run, all the time.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bronconick

If Tennessee had won and played this San Fran team, the Super Bowl might have been only 2.5 hours long. All run, all the time.

Dave Gettleman porn

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I'm not sure it's a bad matchup as much the Packers just aren't very good. They may be one of the least deserving 13-3 teams ever.

I can't really think of many (any?) games where Green Bay was impressive this year. Maybe against the Vikings late in the year, but Minnesota is a much different team with a healthy Dalvin Cook.

It's disappointing this is the regular season rematch we ended up with, rather than the Saints or even the Seahawks. At least Russell Wilson gives any team a chance, regardless of how injured they are.

I didn't think the Packers were that good either, the rest of the league was just that bad. I didn't even think they'd make the playoffs before the year. GB played the weak NFC East and AFC West. Their game vs KC was without Mahomes and they still barely won. I thought the Packers and Patriots were very weak 12-13 win teams that racked up wins against bad teams. But the Saints and Seattle had their chance to be in this game and they blew it. Packers need more offensive weapons around Rodgers and better LB's. They made it a lot further than I thought they would but SF is a much better team.

[stevew]

He didn’t play the ball it’s automatically PI is a questionable interpretation of the rule, right? Thought the later PI in the Titans game was a bit iffy but likely had no impact on the game.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

He didn’t play the ball it’s automatically PI is a questionable interpretation of the rule, right? Thought the later PI in the Titans game was a bit iffy but likely had no impact on the game.

It's not just questionable, it's specifically not the rule since '05 when they clarified and cleaned up the pass interference rule. As long as there's no contact faceguarding is no longer a thing in the NFL or College.

It still gets called

[stevew]

There was no way the Chiefs guy makes that catch without Offensive PI should be enough to justify an overturn or no call.

[tucker rocky]

We know come next season, that 1 or both of the SB54 teams will have a let down season. Right??

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I could be wrong, but that looks like an illegal formation to me, which the line judge would be responsible for calling (the umpire typically makes holding calls). I'm sure a hold was also called on the play, but the illegal formation would be why the flag was immediately thrown there.

Just went back at watched the play. I think it was for illegal formation as well since the TE and WR are both on the line of scrimmage. Either they picked it up or just didn't announce the declined penalty for some reason. The referees did huddle for ~10-15 seconds and when the head referee walks away from the crowd to make the announcement, there's a second flag laying in the middle of the field, presumably the one that was thrown for holding.

[cartman]

Volvo Will Give Away $1 Million In Cars If There's A Safety In Next Super Bowl - Motor Illustrated

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Just went back at watched the play. I think it was for illegal formation as well since the TE and WR are both on the line of scrimmage. Either they picked it up or just didn't announce the declined penalty for some reason. The referees did huddle for ~10-15 seconds and when the head referee walks away from the crowd to make the announcement, there's a second flag laying in the middle of the field, presumably the one that was thrown for holding.

I love the concept that there's a referee who's actively fixing an AFC championship game, in what would be the biggest sports scandal in the world ever bar none, and yet he's such a moron that he throws a flag before the play has even started to blow the whole thing wide open. I mean, how far gone do you have to be to even believe that?

[Edward64]

Wait, Randy Moss has a son old enough to declare for the draft !!

How time flies ...

[jbergey22]

So Xavier Rhodes was named to the pro bowl as a replacement. Not only was he terrible if you watched the games, he was graded terrible on the more advanced methods available. Such a pointless game! I just found it laughable that the most overrated cornerback in the NFL was able to get in the pro bowl.

[albionmoonlight]

They should replace the Pro Bowl with a skills competition. I don't care about a football game where no one is trying. But I'd tune in to see Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and Allen in a "who can throw a football the farthest" contest.

[Scarecrow]

Best part of the Pro Bowl - Experiment with potential rule changes!!!


1) After a successful field goal or extra point try attempt, the scoring team will have options with no kickoff. The scoring team, Team A, may elect to take the ball at its own 25-yard line for a fourth-and-15 play. If Team A is successful in making a first down, Team A will maintain possession and a new series of downs will continue as normal. If Team A is unsuccessful in making a first down, the result will be a turnover on downs and Team B will take possession at the dead-ball spot.

2) It is not a false start if a flexed, eligible receiver in a two-point stance who flinches or picks up one foot, as long as his other foot remains partially on the ground and he resets for one second prior to the snap. A receiver who fits this exception is not considered to be "in motion" for the purposes of the Illegal Shift rules.

[bhlloy]

More trouble for AB... got to be getting to be a longshot he ever plays in the league again at this point? He seems to be going further and further off the deep end rather than coming back in.

[Lathum]

Eli Manning retires after 16 NFL seasons

He is a hall of famer and no one will convince me otherwise

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Eli Manning retires after 16 NFL seasons

He is a hall of famer and no one will convince me otherwise

My knee jerk reaction says, No, but, looking at Pro Football Reference and comparing his stats to other QBs, I'd have to say it's a Yes. Bradshaw, Griese, Montana & Kelly played in different eras though, so I could see an argument to be made regarding that. As much as it pains me, however, if Roethlisberger makes it to the HoF, then E. Manning should as well.

Career Comparison: Ben Roethlisberger, Warren Moon*, Terry Bradshaw*, John Hadl, Bob Griese*, Drew Bledsoe, Donovan McNabb, Joe Montana*, Carson Palmer, Jim Kelly*

[Carman Bulldog]

Ugh. I hope he doesn't get in but I assume that he one day will. Just such a mediocre career. When it comes to HOF quarterbacks, way too much emphasis is on Super Bowl wins.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Ugh. I hope he doesn't get in but I assume that he one day will. Just such a mediocre career. When it comes to HOF quarterbacks, way too much emphasis is on Super Bowl wins.

Eli 7th in passing yards all time, 7th in completions, 7th in TDs. Find me another player in sports who is top ten in such important statistical categories not in their respective HOF ( steroid guys don't count).

I will full on admit he threw too many picks, and he a number of average seasons, but when you look at the whole body of work I don't even think it is a question.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Eli 7th in passing yards all time, 7th in completions, 7th in TDs. Find me another player in sports who is top ten in such important statistical categories not in their respective HOF ( steroid guys don't count).

I will full on admit he threw too many picks, and he a number of average seasons, but when you look at the whole body of work I don't even think it is a question.

But a lot of this is due to the era he played in. How many years was he a top 3-5 QB in the league?

Did he compile stats? Over the course of 15 seasons, sure, but what type of numbers would a Warner or Marino put up over the same time frame?

[Atocep]

If Eli is a Hall of Famer then Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matthew Stafford are Hall of Famers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If Eli is a Hall of Famer then Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matthew Stafford are Hall of Famers.

So you completely discount the 2 superbowl wins where he was MVP?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So you completely discount the 2 superbowl wins where he was MVP?

I do because both wins were team wins. Sure the 2007 squad was led on a last minute drive, but the defense held the Pats to 14 points?

[jbergey22]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/23/gi...owvNDH12R-vRog

Above average over and very long period of time and he got the elusive two rings. I would never call him great but.... I have no issues with him in the HOF.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I do because both wins were team wins. Sure the 2007 squad was led on a last minute drive, but the defense held the Pats to 14 points?

That defense was awesome, but Eli led them to 3 consecutive road wins that playoffs without throwing a pick, including an OT win at GB. To say he doesn't deserve credit for that run is absurd.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/23/gi...owvNDH12R-vRog

Above average over and very long period of time and he got the elusive two rings. I would never call him great but.... I have no issues with him in the HOF.

Extremely accurate. I know when it comes to HOF the character of a person shouldn't matter, but we all know it does, otherwise Curt Schilling would be in with Jeter and Walker. There was no better human in the game than Eli.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So you completely discount the 2 superbowl wins where he was MVP?

Matt Ryan went 70 for 98 for 1,014yds 9tds and 0int in their run to the Super Bowl that they lost in OT to the Pats. His career playoff stats blow Eli's out of the water and his regular seasons stats will to when he retires. It's not his fault Falcons defenses have sucked. So I weigh Eli's 2 Super Bowl wins in his favor about as much as I hold Rivers, Ryan, and Stafford accountable for their front offices not putting better teams on the field.

For the record, I don't think any of them are HoF caliber players. Eli is the perfect candidate for the Hall of Very Good. He had a career that deserves recognition, but not enshrinement.

[Racer]

I say put him in ahead of guys like Philip Rivers or Matt Ryan.

Granted I'm a Colts homer and a Patriots hater but those Super Bowl wins are among the most memorable Super Bowl victories of the last 20 years in my opinion. That's got to count for quite a bit.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Racer

I say put him in ahead of guys like Philip Rivers or Matt Ryan.

Granted I'm a Colts homer and a Patriots hater but those Super Bowl wins are among the most memorable Super Bowl victories of the last 20 years in my opinion. That's got to count for quite a bit.

The original argument on his behalf was his career stats. If that's the bar then those 3 guys are or will very likely finish with better career numbers.

How many years was Eli a top 5 QB? His best year was probably 2011 and that year he clearly finished behind Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Romo and I'd say behind Ryan and Stafford as well.

Do 2 Super Bowls outweigh never really being a great QB in his era?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The original argument on his behalf was his career stats. If that's the bar then those 3 guys are or will very likely finish with better career numbers.

How many years was Eli a top 5 QB? His best year was probably 2011 and that year he clearly finished behind Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Romo and I'd say behind Ryan and Stafford as well.

Do 2 Super Bowls outweigh never really being a great QB in his era?

He was great, was he all pro, most years no, but the 2 Superbowls certainly mean a lot and his consistency and ability to compile those stats should also mean something.

Had he only won 1 Superbowl I could concede, but once you win 2, and make some monster plays in doing so, I think you deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[jbergey22]

My guess is that Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers end up in the Hall of Fame as well.

I mean Troy Aikman made the Hall of Fame...so Super Bowls wins do matter to the voters.

[bhlloy]

It pains me to say this as there are very few players I dislike more, but he's a hall of famer, despite being average way more often than you'd typically think for a HOFer in his career. Two Super Bowl MVPs (deserved or not) puts him above Rivers and Ryan, and even with the passer explosion he's around the top 20-50 in whatever career value metric Football Outsiders has.

If Jim Kelly and Warren Moon are in with no titles, Eli is easily in with 2 and both of them as MVP. Just look at Aikman.

Even as a kinda Chargers fan I'll die on the hill that Phillip Rivers should be nowhere near the HOF, but I suspect I'll lose that one.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

It pains me to say this as there are very few players I dislike more, .

Really curious why you dislike him. I have never heard anyone say a bad word about him. He is a great teammate, great in the community, and handled himself as well as anyone ever could have expected this year.

[bhlloy]

Because of the way he entered the league, maybe?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

It pains me to say this as there are very few players I dislike more, but he's a hall of famer, despite being average way more often than you'd typically think for a HOFer in his career. Two Super Bowl MVPs (deserved or not) puts him above Rivers and Ryan, and even with the passer explosion he's around the top 20-50 in whatever career value metric Football Outsiders has.

If Jim Kelly and Warren Moon are in with no titles, Eli is easily in with 2 and both of them as MVP. Just look at Aikman.

Even as a kinda Chargers fan I'll die on the hill that Phillip Rivers should be nowhere near the HOF, but I suspect I'll lose that one.

He's basically the NFL's Jack Morris. As of right now I'd say it's likely he gets in. We'll see what 5 years of perspective and other QBs putting up numbers does though.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Because of the way he entered the league, maybe?

Ok. I can see that but I always looked at it as a young kid listening to his fathers advice. I do think after all he has done outside of football at this point it’s a bit petty to hold that against him considering there are a lot worse guys in the league.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He was great, was he all pro, most years no, but the 2 Superbowls certainly mean a lot and his consistency and ability to compile those stats should also mean something.

Had he only won 1 Superbowl I could concede, but once you win 2, and make some monster plays in doing so, I think you deserve the benefit of the doubt.

You just described Hines Ward.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

You just described Hines Ward.

I would have him in too. Wars was awesome.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

He's basically the NFL's Jack Morris. As of right now I'd say it's likely he gets in. We'll see what 5 years of perspective and other QBs putting up numbers does though.

You don't even need to look outside of the NFL. He's got better numbers than Aikman and Kelly, especially as Aikman basically played a lot of his career on an all-star offense and only one the one Super Bowl MVP and Kelly didn't even win the game in four tries.

[molson]

Almost every modern QB that lasts a few years has better numbers than Aikman and Kelly. Andy Dalton does. Derek Carr does. Matthew Stafford does. Jim Kelly averaged 15 interceptions a year.

I do think Super Bowl wins count for a lot. That excuses him from ever being say, a top 2-3 QB in the league, but was he ever top 5? I know that's tough to measure.

[stevew]

I think we would agree that Brees and obv Brady deserve it more. Manning and Big Ben are likely on a similar tier and both are ahead of Rivers.

Is Manning a 1st ballot guy though? If he’s not, then there is potentially some sort of pecking order that could push him back several years. I know they can put 2 QBs into the same class. But if you don’t, Brees and Brady probably retire over the next two seasons followed closely by Ben. And Aaron Rodgers was drafted the year after Manning/Ben/Rivers. So maybe it takes 5-6 ballots for him to get in

[spleen1015]

There's too much emphasis on SB wins for any player's consideration into the HoF. This is a team game and 1 play can change the entire discussion around someone's career.

If SD had some kickers that could make some FG, we're talking about Rivers' career differently.

If Scott Norwood makes a kick we're talking about Jim Kelly differently.

If Adam Vinitieri misses a couple of kicks we're talking about Brady's career differently.

If Hank Baskett can catch an onside kick we're talking about Peyton & Brees differently.

If Malcolm Butler doesn't pay attention during film study, we're talking about Russel Wilson differently.

If Rodney Harrison reacts differently to a play and knocks that ball of Tyree's helmet, we're talking about Eli & Brady differently.

It is a team sport. You need the whole team to win a SB and a lot of luck.

Eli Manning is going into the HoF because his SB winning teams had good defenses and a lot of fucking luck.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Eli Manning is going into the HoF because his SB winning teams had good defenses and a lot of fucking luck.

I hear this argument all the time and frankly I don't buy it. Yes, the defense was amazing, but Eli made plays to get them home. There was nothing lucky about the Tyree play. Eli did an amazing job keeping that play alive then fired a missile between defenders to get the ball there. He engineered an amazing final drive to give the Giants the lead against the Pats.

You can throw luck into a lot of things. Was Brady lucky about the Tuck rule? Was he lucky Seattle didn't run the ball? Was he lucky Quinn and Shannahan called maybe the worst second half in superbowl history?

[revrew]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Do 2 Super Bowls outweigh never really being a great QB in his era?

Heck, even one will, if it's memorable. Exhibit A: Joe Namath.

I think the distinct difference between the NFL Hall of Fame and other Halls, is that it IS more of a Hall of "Fame." The famous players get in. Not necessarily the best, not necessarily the most talented, and definitely not the most statistically accomplished. Take a look at Namath's stats - he'd be booed out of the league, not just now, but even as far back as the 80s. He was an awful quarterback. Or look at Lynn Swann. He was a SuperBowl MVP, but his career stats are a career yawn.

This Hall is about Fame (and the opposite is true as well - the complete shutout of Broncos in the Hall prior to Elway is further evidence that it isn't about talent but about Fame).

And being the QB of the New York Giants is fame. Winning two SuperBowls is fame. Winning two SuperBowl MVPs? Beating the undefeated Patriots on one of the most memorable plays/drives in NFL history? Manning doesn't have to be great to make the Hall. He's famous enough to be a lock.*

*Maybe not on first ballot, when he's compared to his peers. Maybe not even in his first few tries. But eventually, a veteran's committee at least will send him in. He's too famous not to make it.

[Swiso]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

There's too much emphasis on SB wins for any player's consideration into the HoF. This is a team game and 1 play can change the entire discussion around someone's career.

If SD had some kickers that could make some FG, we're talking about Rivers' career differently.

If Scott Norwood makes a kick we're talking about Jim Kelly differently.

If Adam Vinitieri misses a couple of kicks we're talking about Brady's career differently.

If Hank Baskett can catch an onside kick we're talking about Peyton & Brees differently.

If Malcolm Butler doesn't pay attention during film study, we're talking about Russel Wilson differently.

If Rodney Harrison reacts differently to a play and knocks that ball of Tyree's helmet, we're talking about Eli & Brady differently.

It is a team sport. You need the whole team to win a SB and a lot of luck.

Eli Manning is going into the HoF because his SB winning teams had good defenses and a lot of fucking luck.

If Greg Roman/ Jim Harbaugh call a dfferent play ( i.e Gore run) we're talking about Colin Kaepernick differently.

[jbergey22]

Lets not forget while football is a team game. The quarterback position is arguably the most important position is sports especially in todays NFL with the insane amount of passing.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

More trouble for AB... got to be getting to be a longshot he ever plays in the league again at this point? He seems to be going further and further off the deep end rather than coming back in.

Is AB broke or is he just frugal? There is always some element of him not wanting to pay people in all of these stories.