The Official 2012-13 NHL Offseason Thread

[bhlloy]

There seems to be an outpouring of sympathy and semi-anger on some blogs I've read and news articles over Mike Danton not getting a visa to play in the UK (the ECHL or other comparable league is also out because the US won't touch him either)

What the fuck am I missing here? If you try to hire somebody to kill somebody else and are actually serious about going through with it, you probably aren't getting a visa to work abroad in your life again. This is pretty cut and dried and I don't care how much of a stupid kid he was when he did it or how much of a changed man he is now. He's lucky he's out of jail and I doubt we'd shed many tears over a builder or a teacher in the same instance.

Somewhat random, but I've seen it at least two places with the general sentiment that it really sucks for him, and I don't get it at all.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

There seems to be an outpouring of sympathy and semi-anger on some blogs I've read and news articles over Mike Danton not getting a visa to play in the UK (the ECHL or other comparable league is also out because the US won't touch him either)

What the fuck am I missing here? If you try to hire somebody to kill somebody else and are actually serious about going through with it, you probably aren't getting a visa to work abroad in your life again. This is pretty cut and dried and I don't care how much of a stupid kid he was when he did it or how much of a changed man he is now. He's lucky he's out of jail and I doubt we'd shed many tears over a builder or a teacher in the same instance.

Somewhat random, but I've seen it at least two places with the general sentiment that it really sucks for him, and I don't get it at all.

Keep in mind who he was trying to kill and why.

[bhlloy]

Well yes, my comment wasn't meant to be flippant or ignorant about the original crime which it inevitably ended up being - Frost is scum and it's pretty clear that whatever really went down he was either behind or the target of.

I just don't get the media fueled surprise or outrage here. I know of people who aren't allowed into the US for two week vacations because of DUI's or because they didn't know about parking tickets they got on their previous visit 15 years ago. I don't think you can realistically say "oh I have murder conviction but I'm a changed man... can I haz visa to play hockey now?"

Anyway, he's appealed to the UK and the hockey world seems to be behind him, so let's see what happens.

[Ryan S]

[JPhillips]

There might be some translation issues, but this interview with Neuvirth is going to cause a lot of waves. He calls Holtby his weakest competition, says Semin didn't try every day, implies the same about Ovie and takes a shot at Hunter.

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...mpetition-yet/

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There might be some translation issues, but this interview with Neuvirth is going to cause a lot of waves. He calls Holtby his weakest competition, says Semin didn't try every day, implies the same about Ovie and takes a shot at Hunter.

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...mpetition-yet/

Hasn't the Semin thing been said by pretty much the entire league, most recently Matt Bradley, and for a few years running?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Hasn't the Semin thing been said by pretty much the entire league, most recently Matt Bradley, and for a few years running?

But Bradley got pressured into an apology. It doesn't matter as much now that Semin is gone, but combined with the remarks on Ovie it could cause a lot of problems in the locker room.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This seriously needs some love from downgoesbrown.com

[Draft Dodger]

Helix is still around? holy fuck

[Suburban Rhythm]

My tickets came in the mail yesterday.

I'm now the proud owner of about 5 pounds of worthless paper.

[JPhillips]

Bettman's comments yesterday sure sound like the owners are all in on breaking the union. Too bad there aren't enough willing tycoons in Canada to start a rival league during the lockout.

[Suburban Rhythm]

This whole thing is so ridiculous

In the last few days, Bruins extend Seguin for $5.5+ a year, Caps sign Troy Freaking Brouwer for $3.5+ per...

If they are so certain they are going to "win" this, what's the rush to sign guys still under contract?

They're crying broke, but can't wait to throw money at guys just before they try and change the way they'll be allowed to throw money at guys in the future.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Bettman's comments yesterday sure sound like the owners are all in on breaking the union. Too bad there aren't enough willing tycoons in Canada to start a rival league during the lockout.

I like how Ryan Miller basically has been saying what the fans have been saying for years about good old Gary:

HockeyBuzz.com - GARTH - Miller: Why Does Bettman Still Have a Job?

[bhlloy]

I agree with basically everything the players say there. The NHL is basically telling us "we have a huge problem with some of our small market teams", but we're not going to do anything at all on our side to fix it, you just have to give us a ton of your money back. Meanwhile, the big market owners who are making shit tons of cash are out there still throwing money at players and just making a mockery of the situation.

It's the ultimate case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too, and even though I'm generally pro-players in these kinds of situations this seems ridiculous even by other lockout standards

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I agree with basically everything the players say there. The NHL is basically telling us "we have a huge problem with some of our small market teams", but we're not going to do anything at all on our side to fix it, you just have to give us a ton of your money back. Meanwhile, the big market owners who are making shit tons of cash are out there still throwing money at players and just making a mockery of the situation.

It's the ultimate case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too, and even though I'm generally pro-players in these kinds of situations this seems ridiculous even by other lockout standards

I am usually pro-owner, but in this lockout/strike, I am more on the players' side. I just don't really trust the owners in this one. Not that I really ever do, but even more so now.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am usually pro-owner, but in this lockout/strike, I am more on the players' side. I just don't really trust the owners in this one. Not that I really ever do, but even more so now.

+1

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

This whole thing is so ridiculous

In the last few days, Bruins extend Seguin for $5.5+ a year, Caps sign Troy Freaking Brouwer for $3.5+ per...

If they are so certain they are going to "win" this, what's the rush to sign guys still under contract?

They're crying broke, but can't wait to throw money at guys just before they try and change the way they'll be allowed to throw money at guys in the future.

exactly. this rush to overpay young guys right now while crying broke...fuck that.

this sport is suddenly very hard to root for.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And the lockout is underway

NHL officially locks out players as CBA expires - ESPN

[JonInMiddleGA]

Evgeni Malkin, Sergei Gonchar to play in Russia's KHL, report says - ESPN

[Grover]

Le sigh.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Pyser

exactly. this rush to overpay young guys right now while crying broke...fuck that.

this sport is suddenly very hard to root for.

Guys were signing extensions hours before the 5p deadline to be accepted at the league office.

Lucic, Cam Fowler, Tyler Ennis, Evander Kane, Alex Burrows.

Does not compute.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Guys were signing extensions hours before the 5p deadline to be accepted at the league office.

Lucic, Cam Fowler, Tyler Ennis, Evander Kane, Alex Burrows.

Does not compute.

How does it not compute? the players know the expiring deal is better than any new deal they will sign

[spleen1015]

I feel for the hockey fans out there.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chubby

How does it not compute? the players know the expiring deal is better than any new deal they will sign

Sorry. Does not compute from the owner's perspective.

If the owners are certain they will (eventually) come out ahead in the new CBA, what's the incentive to sign guys under the old structure? If the old structure was solid enough at noon yesterday, why isn't it just as solid at noon today?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Sorry. Does not compute from the owner's perspective.

If the owners are certain they will (eventually) come out ahead in the new CBA, what's the incentive to sign guys under the old structure? If the old structure was solid enough at noon yesterday, why isn't it just as solid at noon today?

I haven't seen the details of the Ennis deal (or the others) but my 1st guess is they are long term deals for more years than a future CBA will allow.

[MizzouRah]

This is BS.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I haven't seen the details of the Ennis deal (or the others) but my 1st guess is they are long term deals for more years than a future CBA will allow.

Ennis' deal is two years.

I believe the longest of the recent deals was 5 years...and it actually is a good deal for the team. Kevin Klein got $14 over 5, for a guy who will be a top 4 defenseman.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Report: Pat LaFontaine looking into buying Islanders from Charles Wang - CBSSports.com

[sterlingice]

So, uh, no news is good news, right? Oh, yeah- crap

SI

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

So, uh, no news is good news, right? Oh, yeah- crap

SI

Just taking a cue from all the NFL fans who complain about preseason games every year. NHL is solving this problem by cancelling preseason games nobody wants.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Get your fix here!

KHL, ESPN Agree to US Broadcast Deal for 2012-13 Season with NHL Lockout Implications - PensBurgh

[sterlingice]

Sure, ESPN can't be bothered to have NHL hockey but KHL, sign them up! I'm sure it's dirt cheap and it's on ESPN3 so they won't have to interrupt important like their daily programming of "Angry Sportscasters Make Up Controversy by Shouting Past Each Other".

SI

[Suburban Rhythm]

I was just wondering the other day, what at Tim Tebow's thoughts on the NHL lockout?

Fortunately, I bet we'll find out within a week.

[sterlingice]

I think the thing that most frustrates me about this is that Donald Fehr is back to negotiating contracts. I believe he is singlehandedly the guy who led to the 1994 strike in baseball wiping out the entire World Series.

SI

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think the thing that most frustrates me about this is that Donald Fehr is back to negotiating contracts. I believe he is singlehandedly the guy who led to the 1994 strike in baseball wiping out the entire World Series.

SI

I agree completely. The day he signed on with the NHLPA I saw this coming. And I think the players must have, too. Given his history I can't see why you would hire him unless you were serious about going to the mattresses.

[Suburban Rhythm]

ROOT Sports Pittsburgh (formerly Fox) is re-showing games against who the opponent should be during the lockout.

Tomorrow night's "opener" is the game Crosby returned against the Islanders, last November. I guess the February 2011 brawl game didn't make the cut.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I agree completely. The day he signed on with the NHLPA I saw this coming. And I think the players must have, too. Given his history I can't see why you would hire him unless you were serious about going to the mattresses.

Come on, this isn't about the players. The owners see a chance to destroy the union. The players, even with Fehr, would make some small concessions tomorrow and play under a deal that is less generous than the previous agreement.

[sterlingice]

Do you think the NHL can continue to function financially with some small concessions from the players? I see this more as a need for a bit more than that: not nearly as much as last time but something where the revenue scales go back towards 50-50 not 60-40.

It's funny (tragic) as this is the same as baseball. Ultimately, the deal wasn't that different than one that could have been done from the start if both parties just negotiated in good faith and put their true opening gambits on the table instead of the stupid we see now.

SI

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Come on, this isn't about the players. The owners see a chance to destroy the union. The players, even with Fehr, would make some small concessions tomorrow and play under a deal that is less generous than the previous agreement.

Really? Because right now their only 'concession' as far as I can see has been to assume continued unprecedented growth of 7% annually such that they can concede percentage of revenue while still guaranteeing themselves a raise.

[Logan]

I was originally worried that my wedding/honeymoon next June would prohibit me from watching a (hopefully) Cup run by the Rangers. If only that were the biggest problem now...

[JPhillips]

I just don't see the players demanding anything other than more revenue sharing amongst the teams. They aren't asking to abolish the cap. They aren't asking for easier access to FA. They aren't asking for a greater proportion of revenues. If the owners asked for small modifications rather than a second complete overhaul I think they'd get a deal. The problem is the owners want to crush the union and figure, probably rightly, that they'll get almost everything they want eventually.

[bhlloy]

Why shouldn't they continue to get raises? Because a small proportion of the teams in the league are in markets they shouldn't be and are losing money and the rich owners won't consider any form of revenue sharing?

I wonder how many people here would be delighted to take a roll back or freeze on their salary to pay for a mismanaged franchise in their company when the company as a whole was making record profits

[sterlingice]

Been there, done that, own the home game. Worked there for 5 years.

SI

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Do you think the NHL can continue to function financially with some small concessions from the players?

The NHL can continue to function financially without any concessions at all from the players. The league is more profitable now than ever before in its history.The fact that the players have offered significant concessions, even with seven straight years of record revenues, is extraordinary. But they want the contracts they signed honored, and so the owners are going to throw away a season.

This lockout is about owner greed and nothing else. Anyone who sides with the owners in all of this isn't paying attention.

[Logan]

Yeah I tend to fall pro-owner in these sports labor battles, but the owners are being complete shitheads in this. Fuck em.

[Fidatelo]

I don't disagree with you guys that the owners are being douches, but so are the players. I see this as 50/50; they all suck.

I do disagree that some sort of changes aren't necessary. It's not just a couple of under-performing franchises. The top 3-5 teams in the league bring in something like 35% of the revenue. Probably a third or almost half the teams in the league are either losing money or struggling not to. You can't just move 10 teams in a league to better cities, and you also can't expect 3-5 teams to completely fund the other 25.

So, do we need more revenue sharing? Absolutely. But we also need a cap that makes sense, based more on mean per-team revenue than an absolute average of the total. And most of all we need two sides that are actually willing to bargain, not just draw ridiculous lines in the sand miles away from any kind of reasonable middle ground and then stand there and call the other guys douches.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I wonder how many people here would be delighted to take a roll back or freeze on their salary to pay for a mismanaged franchise in their company when the company as a whole was making record profits

I also want to address this quote separately. I don't really see this as being a valid comparison. I think the minute we accept the concept of a salary cap and player drafts and restricted free agency and all the other crazy rules in sports we have to throw out any comparisons to Joe Lunchbox. The North American professional sports world is in it's own little vacuum and has very little to do with the free market economy that the rest of us operate under. And until guys start quitting the NHL to go work some desk job in an insurance company I'm not going to feel too bad about how the big mean owners are treating them.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I wonder how many people here would be delighted to take a roll back or freeze on their salary to pay for a mismanaged franchise in their company when the company as a whole was making record profits

When my office pays its employees 57% of revenue for 7 years, I will gladly take a roll back to 50%.

Seriously, what kind of business pays 23 employees 57% of revenues? And people wonder why sports have a broken business model where owners demand cities pay for arenas/stadiums or they will move.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by chrisj

When my office pays its employees 57% of revenue for 7 years, I will gladly take a roll back to 50%.

Seriously, what kind of business pays 23 employees 57% of revenues? And people wonder why sports have a broken business model where owners demand cities pay for arenas/stadiums or they will move.

First, the total last year was closer to 51%. Second, "revenue" doesn't equal revenue. The owners aren't including everything they make in the pool they share with the players.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by chrisj

Seriously, what kind of business pays 23 employees 57% of revenues?

Smart-ass answer: One with record-setting billion-dollar revenues.

Real answer: One where the employees are also the product.

And remember, the players have already offered to accept a deal where they get 54% dropping to 52%. The 57% number is already dead. It's just that the owners want more more more...