The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

I'm not sure Trump ever thinks ahead, but he's facing a real dilemma soon. It seems all but certain that he'll be implicated in crimes either related to the campaign or his businesses. As long as he's president I don't think the DoJ will ignore past precedent, so it is unlikely that he'll be indicted, but he will face the risk of indictment as soon as he is no longer the president. At this point the chance of he or another Republican is not something he can count on. His best way out is a presidential pardon, ala Ford, but time is running out the longer he fights. Watergate came to a head two years before the next presidential election. Trump isn't going to have a lot of time to fight before he's run out of time for a pardon.

[JPhillips]

Why would Nancy Pelosi leave the Country with other Democrats on a seven day excursion when 800,000 great people are not getting paid. Also, could somebody please explain to Nancy & her “big donors” in wine country that people working on farms (grapes) will have easy access in!

So now he's also proposing a guest worker program of some sort? Who's in charge of coming up with the details of that?

(sorry for the paste, but for some reason I can't embed tweets anymore)

[PilotMan]

I'm honestly shocked he didn't put 'whine' country. He sucks.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

But like past presidents, no one is going to give a shit what he says after he leaves office

I wouldn’t count on it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

I wouldn’t count on it.

I agree. Unfortunately, I'll bet there's going to a large part of the 40% that will keep on listening to him.

[Thomkal]

So the Trump campaign sent out an email saying how Trump has come up with a brilliant idea to make Chuck and Nancy listen to Americans about the Wall.



If you donate $20 or more to the re-elect Trump campaign they will send a brick to Chuck and Nancy to prove that walls work! They have a goal of making $100,000 on this stunt.



Isn't that clever?

[Thomkal]

Dems going after Sec Nielsen now-asked the FBI to open a case on her for lying to Congress about not having a family separation policy. Senator Merkley says they have new proof she lied to Congress about this.

[Thomkal]

Ooooh-Trump making a major announcement tomorrow about humanitarian crisis at the border and the shutdown tomorrow at 3pm. I can hardly wait!

[bronconick]

90% of America don't want to think about politics on a (sometimes 3 day) weekend. Dope.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

If you donate $20 or more to the re-elect Trump campaign they will send a brick to Chuck and Nancy to prove that walls work! They have a goal of making $100,000 on this stunt.



Isn't that clever?

How does this stunt, if successful, not result in 5000 bricks delivered to the White House lawn with a note reading, "Okay, here's your wall materials. Now how about opening the government?"

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So the Trump campaign sent out an email saying how Trump has come up with a brilliant idea to make Chuck and Nancy listen to Americans about the Wall.



If you donate $20 or more to the re-elect Trump campaign they will send a brick to Chuck and Nancy to prove that walls work! They have a goal of making $100,000 on this stunt.



Isn't that clever?

Charlie Kirk or somebody was already running that grift. lol

[Edward64]

Well darn ... hold the presses.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...eed/index.html

Special counsel Robert Mueller's office disputed an explosive story from BuzzFeed News as "not accurate" Friday night, after the news outlet reported the President had directed his personal attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress, for which Cohen was later prosecuted.

"BuzzFeed's description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen's Congressional testimony are not accurate," said Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller's office, in a statement.

It's highly unusual for the special counsel's office to provide a statement to the media -- outside of court filings and judicial hearings -- about any of its ongoing investigative activities.

[Thomkal]

Yeah that's really strange that the special counsel would comment on this article with all the stuff that has been written about in the investigation. I don't get it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yeah that's really strange that the special counsel would comment on this article with all the stuff that has been written about in the investigation. I don't get it.

I'll admit it's at least entertaining to see people that were 100% against the Special Council suddenly accept what it says.

This would be a 4d chess move if Trump did something similar.

[Butter]

Fuckin Buzzfeed man.

[Edward64]

Sat 3pm, can't hardly wait.

Hopefully there will be some significant concessions for $5B Wall/Barrier funding. But my guess is it won't be enough.

I like he is trying to reach out to a broader base (some) and reinforcing his existing, almost seems "presidential". I don't think Pelosi has unlimited timeline though, longer it goes, the more shared blame there will be when more and more people get fed up.

Lost opportunity in his first 2 years.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...own/index.html

The official told CNN that Trump's idea is to put something on the table to get Democrats to engage with negotiations. Trump is not expected to back down from his demand for a border wall, but the plan will seek to entice Democrats by offering other concessions.

However, this plan is not based on negotiations with Democrats and White House officials are pessimistic that it will change much in stalled talks, because Democrats have previously refused to counter the White House's proposal. Instead they have insisted that the President reopen the government, then engage in negotiations over border security.

The official added that discussions about a national emergency are ongoing in the administration and the President is not expected to announce a decision on that during Saturday's speech. However, nothing is definite until it's announced by the President.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

How does this stunt, if successful, not result in 5000 bricks delivered to the White House lawn with a note reading, "Okay, here's your wall materials. Now how about opening the government?"

Both clever. It would be great!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sat 3pm, can't hardly wait.

Hopefully there will be some significant concessions for $5B Wall/Barrier funding. But my guess is it won't be enough.

I like he is trying to reach out to a broader base (some) and reinforcing his existing, almost seems "presidential". I don't think Pelosi has unlimited timeline though, longer it goes, the more shared blame there will be when more and more people get fed up.

Lost opportunity in his first 2 years.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...own/index.html

He thinks has something that will make people's opinion shift and start blaming the dems. Let's see if he is right.

[bronconick]

Sounds like he's offering DACA and Bridge Act protection (currently tied up in courts already) for his $5.7 billion. Must be doing this on Saturday before Ann and Rush tell him no.

[QuikSand]

Holy cow, George Will...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.5102bd518967

Worth cuddling up with the ol' Websters and working your way through it. It's not exactly new, but in his usual way, his precision here is awfully impressive.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Sounds like he's offering DACA and Bridge Act protection (currently tied up in courts already) for his $5.7 billion. Must be doing this on Saturday before Ann and Rush tell him no.

I am reading not DACA, just the Bridge Act. That is a big difference. Bridge only protects people that qualify for DACA for 3 years, and doesn't give a path to citizenship. So he gives the appearance of giving something, while not really giving much.

[bronconick]

And that took a month. Let's not elect non-politicians from now on. We could have reached this stage in 6 hours.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I am reading not DACA, just the Bridge Act. That is a big difference. Bridge only protects people that qualify for DACA for 3 years, and doesn't give a path to citizenship. So he gives the appearance of giving something, while not really giving much.

If that's the case, it's a pretty savvy political move.

[JPhillips]

Well, that didn't work out as planned.

Army’s post mortem on Iraq war: “an emboldened and expansionist Iran appears to be the only victor”

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...r-future-wars/

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Holy cow, George Will...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.5102bd518967

Worth cuddling up with the ol' Websters and working your way through it. It's not exactly new, but in his usual way, his precision here is awfully impressive.

It's good, but this line is funny in the context of Will's writings on Trump:

They, however, have sunk to his level of insufferable self-satisfaction by preening about their superiority to someone they consider morally horrifying and intellectually cretinous.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well, that didn't work out as planned.



https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...r-future-wars/

Make no mistake, Mr Bolton won't be quenched until he gets his war with Iran.

[Thomkal]

So in advance of his big announcement, the white house is trying to soften up the crowd by issuing statements that are in no way ever uttered by Trump:

1. @realDonaldTrump: The beauty and majesty of citizenship is that draws no distinctions of race, or class, or faith, or gender or background. No matter where our story begins – whether we are 1st generation or 10th generation – we are all equal!
   
   493 replies 806 retweets 2,559 likes
2. 
   The White House‏Verified account @WhiteHouse 19m19 minutes ago
   
   
   .@realDonaldTrump: As Americans Citizens, we are bound together in love, loyalty, friendship and affection. We must look out for each other, care for each other, and always act in the best interests of our nation – and all citizens living here today.

[Thomkal]

And before he can even talk about it, Pelosi has a response:


Pelosi Statement on Trump Speech - Speaker Nancy Pelosi

[SackAttack]

Be funny if that was a subtle attempt to nudge him into going "I'll show HER. HA!" and proposing an actual DACA solution just to make her look bad.

"Well, okay, egg on my face, but it made him do the thing I wanted him to do in the first place, soooo..."

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Be funny if that was a subtle attempt to nudge him into going "I'll show HER. HA!" and proposing an actual DACA solution just to make her look bad.

"Well, okay, egg on my face, but it made him do the thing I wanted him to do in the first place, soooo..."

Yeah given you are never quite sure what's going to come out of Trump's mouth until he says it, that was a risk to get in there first.

[cartman]

So basically the concessions he is offering are things the courts are going to make him do anyway.

[albionmoonlight]

MAGA 1: "We have a problem. Apparently some ostensibly serious people out there are STILL contending that 'Build the Wall' has something to do with border security and isn't just distilled unalloyed racism."

MAGA 2: "Really? I mean, yeah, that's our 'defense,' but people weren't supposed to actually believe it. It's going to dilute our message if people start getting confused about what 'The Wall' means. Any ideas on how to really get our point across?"

MAGA 1: "Maybe we could have some Hitler Youth start screaming it at Native Americans? I mean, people couldn't keep thinking that it has anything to do with border security after that, could they?"

MAGA 2: "I guess we'll see."

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by cartman

So basically the concessions he is offering are things the courts are going to make him do anyway.

..and done through the executive branch, so Miller can be the Lucy to the Dems and pull the agreement after Trump has his money.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by cartman

So basically the concessions he is offering are things the courts are going to make him do anyway.

And he didn't budge on the Wall, or ask for less money-some compromise eh?

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And he didn't budge on the Wall, or ask for less money-some compromise eh?

He also didn't offer anything new. He offered the same things a month ago, and was told no. So it makes sense for Pelosi to have a response already.

[albionmoonlight]

What I get from the offer (which I think was a smart move politically):

The GOP Senators (at least the ones in purple states up for 2020 election) are getting a decent amount of pressure from their voters to Do Something.

The GOP Leadership and Trump are not ready for this to end.

So they made a non-starter offer which McConnell will put up for a vote early next week and the GOP senators will vote for (and probably a few Dem senators from red states).

DACA is confusing. And if you really look at the offer here, it is laughably one-sided. But the sound bite is going to be "GOP offered DAVA concessions in exchange for the Wall, and Pelosi called it a 'non-starter.'"

That's a good GOP sound-bite. And if they can keep Trump away from Twitter and from a TV camera for 48 hours, it might actually stick.

Overall, I am distressed, though, because the Dems have no incentive to take this offer, and the fact that the GOP made it means that they are still more interested in the fight than in ending it.

And the clock ticks for 800,000 Americans who's only sin was wanting to serve their country.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So in advance of his big announcement, the white house is trying to soften up the crowd by issuing statements that are in no way ever uttered by Trump:

1. @realDonaldTrump: The beauty and majesty of citizenship is that draws no distinctions of race, or class, or faith, or gender or background. No matter where our story begins – whether we are 1st generation or 10th generation – we are all equal!
   
   493 replies 806 retweets 2,559 likes
2. 
   The White House‏Verified account @WhiteHouse 19m19 minutes ago
   
   
   .@realDonaldTrump: As Americans Citizens, we are bound together in love, loyalty, friendship and affection. We must look out for each other, care for each other, and always act in the best interests of our nation – and all citizens living here today.

Interesting way of clouding the issue since his offer does not include a pathway to citizenship, which was included in the 25 billion dollar offer made a month ago.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

What I get from the offer (which I think was a smart move politically):

The GOP Senators (at least the ones in purple states up for 2020 election) are getting a decent amount of pressure from their voters to Do Something.

The GOP Leadership and Trump are not ready for this to end.

So they made a non-starter offer which McConnell will put up for a vote early next week and the GOP senators will vote for (and probably a few Dem senators from red states).

DACA is confusing. And if you really look at the offer here, it is laughably one-sided. But the sound bite is going to be "GOP offered DAVA concessions in exchange for the Wall, and Pelosi called it a 'non-starter.'"

That's a good GOP sound-bite. And if they can keep Trump away from Twitter and from a TV camera for 48 hours, it might actually stick.

Overall, I am distressed, though, because the Dems have no incentive to take this offer, and the fact that the GOP made it means that they are still more interested in the fight than in ending it.

And the clock ticks for 800,000 Americans who's only sin was wanting to serve their country.

I do think Trump's decided to make this announcement on a Saturday afternoon of a long weekend hurts the ability of the narrative to take hold outside of the base. By the time people pay attention, the value of any sound bite will be diminished for all but the base.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

MAGA 1: "Maybe we could have some Hitler Youth start screaming it at Native Americans? I mean, people couldn't keep thinking that it has anything to do with border security after that, could they?"

Apparently it was the black Muslims that made them do it.

That incident wasn't really touched on here outside of this comment, but one of the moms' response explains that situation entirely.

“Did you hear the names of the people were calling these boys? It was shameful. Did you witness the black Muslims yelling profanities and video taping to get something to further your narrative of hatred??

[JPhillips]

Not Muslims. They are part of the wacky Black Israelites cult. They have a similar business model as Westboro Baptist.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Not Muslims. They are part of the wacky Black Israelites cult. They have a similar business model as Westboro Baptist.

Wait, seriously? That's lol stupid.

[JPhillips]

Look them up. They're every bit as batshit as Westboro, and they seem to survive largely on provoking people to violence and then suing.

[thesloppy]

I have been largely ignoring that story, as I think it would just make me mad for one reason or another.....but as I now understand it, the three groups involved were: a group of protesting Black Israelites, a group of vacationing catholic school boys wearing MAGA gear, and a traditional native american elder.

These truly are absurd times.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have been largely ignoring that story, as I think it would just make me mad for one reason or another.....but as I now understand it, the three groups involved were: a group of protesting Black Israelites, a group of vacationing catholic school boys wearing MAGA gear, and a traditional native american elder.

These truly are absurd times.

Now, according to conservatives, the presence of the Black Isrealites excuses the maga kids for the bizarre stare down, the tomahawk chopping, the war chants, and other disrespectful behavior. I shouldn't be surprised, everything has to be a partisan issue. I'm sure the centrists will be along to shake their head disapprovingly with their 'both sides' takes and the cycle will be complete.

[PilotMan]

Anything to muddle the conversation, or avoid holding anyone accountable.

[thesloppy]

If nothing else, it is 100% American.

[Edward64]

I do think there is some jumping to conclusions re: the MAGA hat kid(s). Per below, some additional context on the incident. Here's from the kid's point of view.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/ma...deo/index.html

A video that shows white high school students in Make America Great Again hats and shirts mocking a Native American elder shocked the country, leading to widespread denunciations of the teens' behavior.

It was a moment in a bigger story that is still unfolding.
:
"A student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group," Sandmann said in his statement. "The chants are commonly used at sporting events. They are all positive in nature and sound like what you would hear at any high school," he said.

A student jumps in front of the group, rips his shirt off and leads the group in a chant and dance. He retreats and the students bounce up and down as they continue to chant, attracting onlookers.

Soon enough, the sound of a drum builds offscreen. Phillips, surrounded by several people with drums and cameras, enters the frame. The video captures Phillips as he walks into the crowd of bobbing teens.

"He came to the rescue," a voice is heard on the video.

People follow him, blocking the camera from what happens next.

Kaya Taitano, who shot the viral video, said the teens were chanting "Build the wall" and "Trump 2020." Those chants were not audible in videos reviewed by CNN.

The situation was starting to grow calm until Sandmann got in Phillips' face, Taitano said. Phillips kept chanting and beating his drum as other boys circled around, "mocking him and mocking the chant," Taitano said.

Phillips said the teen blocked his path as he tried to keep moving.

"I was scared," Phillips told CNN's Sara Sidner. "I don't like the word 'hate.' I don't like even saying it, but it was hate unbridled. It was like a storm."

Sandmann denied that he blocked Phillips' path and insisted that Phillips was the one who "locked eyes" with him. He also denied that anyone said "build that wall" or anything hateful.

"I was not intentionally making faces at the protestor. I did smile at one point because I wanted him to know that I was not going to become angry, intimidated or be provoked into a larger confrontation," Sandmann said in his statement.

So there are 3 groups - Hebrew Israelites, Native American Indians, and School kids. My guess is

1. Hebrew Israelites starts confrontation by name calling etc.
2. Kids back away and come back later with their school/haka chants/dance (I read haka dance from somewhere)
3. American Indian(s) come into the space to try to make peace
4. Kids think its more of the same from the American Indian(s) with their drum beating

The picture of the smirking kid is not good but somewhat understandable if no. 4 is correct.

I can also understand the American Indians thinking the school/haka chants/dance was mocking them.

Although denied (and not heard on the video), I can easily believe there were some kids that chanted Build the Wall and Trump 2020. However, likely not the entire group.

One big mess but I do think its too soon to condemn the MAGA kid (or rest of them) yet. There's enough uncertainty IMO.

EDIT: Here's sampling of the video. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/19/us/te...rnd/index.html


.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have been largely ignoring that story, as I think it would just make me mad for one reason or another.....but as I now understand it, the three groups involved were: a group of protesting Black Israelites, a group of vacationing catholic school boys wearing MAGA gear, and a traditional native american elder.

These truly are absurd times.

Yes on the absurd but probably not much different than (insert year) The one difference being the video cameras and social media. 30 years ago they probably would have gotten their asses kicked. Much like the mass shooting stuff I try to deflect too much from the personal responsibility of the principal actors but also wonder why as a public we choose to get wrapped up into these media generated controversies. (Mass shootings not as much the act but the obsession on making the people involved infamous)

Best to ignore as these stories serve only one real purpose... division.

[Thomkal]

Shocking-Trump has no events scheduled today for MLK Day.
Equally Shocking Pence compares Trump to King in the most sickening suck-up yet.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I do think there is some jumping to conclusions re: the MAGA hat kid(s). Per below, some additional context on the incident. Here's from the kid's point of view.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/ma...deo/index.html


So there are 3 groups - Hebrew Israelites, Native American Indians, and School kids. My guess is

1. Hebrew Israelites starts confrontation by name calling etc.
2. Kids back away and come back later with their school/haka chants/dance (I read haka dance from somewhere)
3. American Indian(s) come into the space to try to make peace
4. Kids think its more of the same from the American Indian(s) with their drum beating

The picture of the smirking kid is not good but somewhat understandable if no. 4 is correct.

I can also understand the American Indians thinking the school/haka chants/dance was mocking them.

Although denied (and not heard on the video), I can easily believe there were some kids that chanted Build the Wall and Trump 2020. However, likely not the entire group.

One big mess but I do think its too soon to condemn the MAGA kid (or rest of them) yet. There's enough uncertainty IMO.

EDIT: Here's sampling of the video. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/19/us/te...rnd/index.html


.

A couple main thoughts from this:
1: Why all the attention from the media? And why the quick rush to judgement to condemn a bunch of high schoolers?

2: I thought the kid handled himself pretty well. If some guy marched up to me and started banging a drum in my face (and this was after another group was hurling vile hateful rhetoric for some time) I probably would've done something less media friendly then stand there and smile.

3: Why is there not more attention on the Black Israelites. What they said and did was far worse than anything the high schoolers are said to have done. For example one guy with a microphone can be heard saying "You have 'In God We Trust' on the dollar bill but you still give rights to f******".