Magic The Gathering

[sterlingice]

True, and I liked a lot of cards in Tempest. But I don't have a sense of comparison

SI

[Toddzilla]

OMG I can't believe how expensive the multi-lands are. I've got dozens of those bad boys. I made a road trip to buy a case of Ice Age and traded boosters for multi-lands back in the day

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

OMG I can't believe how expensive the multi-lands are. I've got dozens of those bad boys. I made a road trip to buy a case of Ice Age and traded boosters for multi-lands back in the day

Like Plateau, Bayou, Tundra and other dual lands?

Or did you trade for the pain-land cycle from Ice Age with stuff like Adarkar Wastes and Karplusan Forest?


Just as an example, here is teh Ice Age version of the K Forest.

Karplusan Forest | CoolStuffInc.com online retailer of board games, mtg and many other collectible card games


Now, here's the Taiga - both are Green and Red lands:

Taiga | CoolStuffInc.com online retailer of board games, mtg and many other collectible card games

But one is worth $85 nm and the other is $1.50 nm.

If you have a ton of the Revised (or even earlier) duals, I recommend cashing out. They are just money in a bottle.

If you piece them out on a site like ebay, you'll get most of your money back. Or you could just package them and sell them. For how much?

Here's a buylist from a major store:

StarCityGames.com Buy List - Sell Your Magic Cards To Us!

[Toddzilla]

Yeah, Taiga, Underground River, those. From the 3rd edition (Unlimited?)

So you say they're as popular as they're gonna get?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Yeah, Taiga, Underground River, those. From the 3rd edition (Unlimited?)

So you say they're as popular as they're gonna get?

THird edition is referred to as Revised. If you have 2nd Edition Unlimited versions, they are even more expensive. For example, if your Plateau looks like this instead, then you have Unlimited:



Now the Plateau is worth a ton of money becuase of the chagnge in art to Revised. But other unlimited cards are also worth more. For example, Taiga in Unlimited pants?

$120 from the same store for a nm version. Obviously prices drop from there based on condition.



The major question about dual lands and other Legacy stapse is the huge popularity of Modern. About 2 years ago, WOTC stopped supporting an unpopular format called Extended and began to support a new one, called Modern, that reaches back to Mirrodin, when they changed the card border.

This format has been hugely popular. It was addressed in part to alleviate the financial problems of Legacy, which uses all cards from all sets ,but with a banned list for terribly troublesome stuff.

Legacy has gotten to the point where stapes were worth a ton of cash. IN about two years, the price of dual lands has risen from tens of dollars to a lot more. Then after Modern was introduced, it became the hot commodity. It was the new stuff..

And Modern cards did what Legacy had done too. You think what happened to dual lands is just that one cycle?

Fetch lands from Zendikar, a set released just three or four years ago, are worth $30 for the low end and up to $60 for the high end lands from that 5 card cycle. That means some Zendikar fetches are worth more than the low end dual lands from the early days. But there are a ton more fetches out there, so how can that be?

The demand is so high. Meanwhile, the most recent set, Khans of Tarkir, includes reprints of a similarly powered fetch land cycle that are worth, right now, for a set in print, $17 for one, and $20-21 for the other four.


So what's the point. The Zendikar fetches gained that money off the back of Modern, and Legacy as well. But it was really Modern that drove the prices. Other cards that are powerful in Modern but not commonly played in Legacy have swollen price tags as well.


Modern is the thing right now.

And Legacy singles have plateaued, and sometimes dipped a bit.

For example, Force of Will used to be $120. Now it's $100. Wasteland is back under $100 for the first time in a while.

Now, none of these cards are tanking permanently barring a reprinting. (Wasteland, as an uncommon, could be in te next set, it was never on the Reserve List).

Plus, Magic is getting more and more popular. Why would the best set of lands in the game, of all time, not continue to rise long term?

So the money is on a long term hold for these lands. But I don't think you'll see a lot of short-term movement on them. I think Legacy might take off again in popularity, and when it does, these cards are going to sing in value.


So, what do you want? Do you want to wait and find out? Or do you just want to cash out now and get the big money, since hte prices are unliekly to move much in the next bit.

[Fidatelo]

No dual lands for me. The kid I sold my good cards to must have recognized their usefulness or value even back then (95-96). Ah well.

[Toddzilla]

I'll probably just hold them for now...thanks, Abe!

[Abe Sargent]

This is what Chas Andres, an expert on Magic finance,had to say on a similar issue in a n article he published three weeks ago on SCG:

Originally Posted by scott

I have been away from the game for a few years and I have 1-2 playsets of every staple in Modern and Legacy. I just finished college and my collection has become something of a nest egg for me. What should I do with the cards now that I don't actively have time to play and maintain a collection anymore? I know the old adage is "never sell your collection," but it seems to me that older cards are in a bull market right now. Saying that any market is due to crash simply because it hasn't done so in a while is the gambler's fallacy, but I do want to be protected in case Wizards decides to scrap the reserved list or stops support for Legacy. Where do you see the market for these older cards heading?

Scott

"I don't think a major crash is coming to Magic any time soon, Scott. If you haven't been in the game for a while, I know it can seem like Underground Sea jumped from $50 to $350 overnight, but those prices actually make sense when you consider how many more people are playing right now. Magic probably is about nine times more popular now than it was when we had $50 Underground Seas, and WotC is not making any more of them. Both Legacy and Vintage are doing fine without WotC showing them much support, and there are many avid fans of both that are promoting a style of Magic play that simply cannot exist in the newer formats. Your reserved list cards are fine to hold and will be very hard to replace should you ever decide to do so.

Modern is slightly more difficult to predict. Assuming the format stays popular (I think that it will) a certain number of staples will spike each year while other cards tank in price thanks to reprints and decks falling out of favor. I expect this cycle to continue, though I do think that WotC is serious about making the format more affordable. If you're going to sell your Modern collection, do it in February, March, and April - those months generally mark the seasonal high for Eternal cards.

The decision to sell is both difficult and personal. On the one hand, a large Legacy and Modern collection can net you as much as a full year's worth of pay if you make the effort to part it out. That amount of money can be life changing. On the other hand, if you ever want to play those formats again, buying back in from scratch can be like staring up at an impenetrable brick wall, especially if card prices go up again after you sell. I'd take a long time (say, the three months between now and when selling makes sense) and think about what that money would mean to you - and also how you'd feel if the market does collapse and your collection drops in value by 50% or more. If you do decide to sell out, be sure to keep a couple of decks around and a small binder filled with your favorite cards. You'll be happy you held on to those no matter what happens. "



StarCityGames.com - The Khans Of Tarkir Finance Mailbag

[Toddzilla]

Thanks, pal!

[Abe Sargent]

This post is called...


How you folks helped me to write an article!


My Underground Sea Is Worth WHAT? by Abe Sargent | GatheringMagic.com - Magic: The Gathering Website

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Really?

The Rath Cycle Block has some of the most powerful, broken, and nasty cards ever printed in Magic after the first few years. Survival of the Fittest? Recurring Nightmare? Oath of Druids? Cursed Scroll? Wasteland is nasty expensive as an uncommon, and it features massive casual hits like Sliver Queen and Volrath;s Stronghold that are worth serious coinage.

I named the Stronghold as the best card for multiplayer of all time like a year ago in one of my columns.

So, dug up my cards to see what kind of "money cards" I have sitting around, things in the $50+ range. As I mentioned my main deck from back then has some money- it probably had $200+ put into it to build it back then but that was at something like $20 per dual land, $5 for Serra Angels, $10 for Deflections (ha!), etc. I was mostly on the mark with the money stuff: 4 revised Tundras and 2 Force of Wills (and I found another in my binder). It has a few things in the $5-$10 range (Maze of Ith, Antiquities Strip Mine) but nothing fancy. I like oddball lands and they were what I collected, along with a tendency towards blue and white, so I have some silly stuff like a Karoo or Svyelunite Temple. And then I stumbled across a card I had added just because, again, I like oddball lands: Karakas. I'm thinking that's in the stupid money range because of its use for Commander decks, if I understand them correctly.

I also ran across a pair of Wastelands in my binder and saw what they go for. Did land destruction get really popular? And why are they so expensive but Strip Mines aren't? Is there some format that one is allowed in but the other is not? Also, dual lands are so interesting to me because there have been some lands that have come out that are more powerful and have great abilities. But, of course, pretty much all come out tapped so that first turn makes those duals worth so much more.

I found an old Scrye from 1997 and that has both some cautionary tales and some crazy inflation. It just really depends on the card. Alpha and Beta Black Lotus: $400, Beta Moxes: $200, Revised dual lands: $15, Force of Will: $3. On the other hand, Ali from Cairo: $95, Guardian Beast: $80, Revised Vesuvan Doppleganger: $21, Revised Shivan Dragon: $18, Jester's Cap: $25, Deflection: $15, Balduvian Horde $25, Grinning Totem: $20, Viashivan Dragon (a personal favorite, admittedly of limited play value): $15.

SI

[Thomkal]

Just a bump to ask if anyone else is playing the new Magic the Gathering: Arena now in open beta? I think they might have finally got the online experience "right". It is free to play with payment options if you want to buy the two online currencies, gold and gems. But so far, about a month in, I don't feel the need to buy anything. Right now at least they have it set up so you can win new packs and even decks pretty easily.


They have weekly or so goals or quests each week/new day, Things like cast so many creatures, cast a number of spells of one of two colors, win a certain number of matches, etc. The rewards are gold, sometime gems, a pack from one the sets in the current format, or of great benefit to me entire decks which are added to your collection. I've been playing Magic on and off (mostly off) since it was introduced (yes I am old), so there are a lot of mechanics and strategies that I am just not aware of/know how to build a deck around. These decks introduce/re-introduce them to me and have a been a big help.



And so far they have been easy to get. I recently completed a "kill 100 creatures" goal, and to my surprise was offered five decks to choose from or so I thought. Nope, I actually won those five decks, and have about 10 now above the five (one for each color) starting decks you get. Deckbuilding has always been a bit overwhelming to me, so having those available has let me explore them at my leisure.


You can construct your own decks from the cards in your collection, and if you have a few that you want to add, but don't have you start out with a number of wildcards, ones for common, uncommon, and rare, and you can use them to add the card you want to the deck you are building. You can get new wildcards in some decks you open, and after you've opened a certain number of packs.



There are tournaments you can enter for a certain number of gold or gems-constructed or sealed using the currents sets in the rotation. They last about a month, and the more you win the more of a reward you get. Right now its about three running at a time, and the cards are added to your collection if you join one. So its not difficult to add cards to your collection.


I'm not a Magic expert by any means, so I don't really pay attention to if the cards are acting "correctly" in the online format, and I couldn't quote you on what most cards do, but everything seems to work like they should, and there hasn't been any problems with lag, or bugs, etc that I can tell. I've rediscovered my love of Magic through this version of the online game, and since its free anybody can check it out. Here's a link to it:


Magic: The Gathering Arena | MAGIC: THE GATHERING


The Yogscast are big Magic lovers so they have been playing the beta as well. Here's an example if you want to check out how it plays:


GATHERING THE MAGIC! - MtG Arena! w/ Lewis & Ben - 9th October 2018 #AD - YouTube

[Lathum]

I was part of the beta test. HAted it.

I played MtG years and years ago, and enjoyed it. I really like Hearthstone. The problem with the MtG arena is that for me anyway it was way to complicated and geared towards people who already knew the game. Hearthstone is so much easier, and just as enjoyable.

[BYU 14]

It sounds like it was setup almost exactly like Eternal Card Game, which is a magic type clone, that was designed by people formerly involved with MTG and a bit easier to embrace. I have a ton of hours tied up in ECG and enjoy it quite a bit, easy to build competitive decks without the money sink.

[chesapeake]

Like Lathum, I was also part of the closed beta test. Unlike him, I loved it then and am playing a lot in the open beta. I suspect it has to do with keeping my Magic skills relatively up-to-date by playing some of the Magic: Duels games as they came out over the last few years. They kept me just familiar enough with the various different mechanisms they've added to the game in recent years that jumping into Arena has been easy.


I can see why the "tutorial" it starts out with would be entirely inadequate for new players and people that haven't played much in a long time. It makes the learning curve unnecessarily steep, in my opinion. The nice thing about Magic, though, is that there is wealth of material online that can teach you all the mechanisms. I suspect that is why WOTC skimped on the tutorial.


As a cheap bastard, I find Arena to be fantastic. I've spent a grand total of $5 on the game and find that I can be pretty competitive in the lesser constructed deck format. Sometimes I do get matched up against someone that simply outdecks me with a bunch of rares and mythics; but I've found that doesn't happen often enough to frustrate me too much. And I've found it to be an incredibly economical way to learn how to play limited formats--drafts and sealed decks.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I was part of the beta test. HAted it.

I played MtG years and years ago, and enjoyed it. I really like Hearthstone. The problem with the MtG arena is that for me anyway it was way to complicated and geared towards people who already knew the game. Hearthstone is so much easier, and just as enjoyable.

Sorry you had that experience with Magic Lathum. I do know where you are coming from with the complexity-I've lost a lot early on because of that. But even in losing you can complete some of the goals and get more cards. The only thing I've done to refresh my memory is to watch some let's plays of Arena on You Tube. The Wizards web site and Magic wiki are probably good places to go to help with that. Plus just playing the decks I've won has helped with the complexity. To each their own.

[Fidatelo]

I jumped in at the start of Open Beta, not having played Magic in about 20 years, and I've been really enjoying it. I've also opened the 10 duel-color decks in addition to the starting 5 and spent a good amount of time exploring them. The black/blue pirate deck is my favorite (and probably the best), with the black/green saproling deck being the runner-up. The blue/red one is also ok, and then the rest are all sort of interchangeable to me (except the blue/white artifact one... that deck is a stinker).

I also broke down and sunk the $5 in for the welcome package a couple nights ago. Given that I've probably played about 20 hours so far it seems like a reasonable investment. I'm currently hoarding the gems until I get a bit better, but I have done a couple draft events using gold I've collected F2P and those were an absolute blast. I finished 1-3 in each attempt.

Last night I discovered this article that shows how to create a budget mono-blue deck out of all the cards you get for free in those starter/reward decks. It works really well, and so I even began the process of upgrading it to the better version it guides you to. I had a couple of the better cards just from all the free packs I've opened, and then used a couple of the wildcards to get a couple more. I'm only a small way towards the end-state, but already can see the power. I think I went 10-3 with the deck last night and at least one of those losses was definitely pilot error.

If you love card games, I highly recommend.

[Draft Dodger]

yeah I was in the closed beta and have been playing it a ton. as a casual magic player for many, many years I've found it really has improved my game. I love seeing different deck ideas than I'm used to playing against.

as someone who played all of the duel of the planeswalkers games, one thing I really like about Arena is the deckbuilding. it's way easier to use than the one in the most recent DotP.

[tyketime]

Are Planeswalkers still OP? I rarely played MtG from a competitive perspective. Instead, I enjoyed playing Friday Night Magic events with my sons. But with the introduction of Planeswalkers, the scene became decidedly less informal & fun. More often, whoever drew a Planeswalker had a huge advantage and so I played less & less frequently until I stopped playing altogether.

I ask my boys if Planeswalkers are still in the game (Draft and/or Standard) and they said yes. I'd like to give MtG Arena a shot, but am afraid of running into the same issue again.

What has been your experience?

[chesapeake]

Planeswalkers are still very powerful and need to be addressed pretty quickly when your opponent plays one unless you've got a win condition right in hand. But, for the most part, I think they play like any bomb that comes out, which I think is the intended design.



Teferi is a particularly tough one to face in the current standard meta because he draws cards and untaps a couple of lands, meaning that your opponent can often protect him with a counterspell to your answer--even on the turn after he was cast. But other than him, I don't know that there is another planeswalker currently in standard that is quite so difficult to play against. Chandra was a key part of a mono red deck that just rotated out of standard and I don't know that the meta has caught up with the new planeswalkers that dropped with the new Guilds of Ravnica set.


You may as well give Arena a shot, as the only cost you really have at this point is your time. You should be able to get a good feel for what's in it without paying a dime.

[Thomkal]

what he said

[Fidatelo]

Planeswalkers do feel pretty OP to me. I still play in the very low levels, though, and it's sort of a two-sided coin I feel. On the one side, I don't see them played in many of my games because most of us low-level chumps don't have them (or at least enough to see them reliably). But the other side is that when they do come out they can be pretty tilting.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

You may as well give Arena a shot, as the only cost you really have at this point is your time. You should be able to get a good feel for what's in it without paying a dime.

I did download the game last night and played through the Tutorials. Thanks for the push.

[chesapeake]

Planeswalkers are typically 4+ mana mythic rares, so they should have a big effect on the board. When I slap my shiny new Doom Whisperer onto the battlefield, which is also 5 mana mythic rare, my opponent better have an answer soon or I'm probably going to win.

[Toddzilla]

I kinda like MTGA. It's going to take a decade to get a decent collection of cards, but otherwise it seems solid.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by tyketime

I did download the game last night and played through the Tutorials. Thanks for the push.

Update - I've played a number of games using the five basic mono-colored decks that were given to me. The daily rewards seem fair & straight-forward, and so I've earned three of the dual-colored decks. I'm back & forth around the Bronze Tier 3 rank. It seems like a couple of wins gets me very close to the next level, but then one loss bounces me back to the beginning of that level.

So far I have enjoyed playing just to get back into it. I've run across a few new mechanics I have to brush up on. I've also earned a number of free cards and several free packs, so that's cool. I also think the $5 starter pack looks like a good purchase and I suspect I will do that soon.

I wish I could play against my son, but I'm sure a Friends List is coming along with the possibility of unranked play so I can "test" out my decks without penalty. I know that was my main weakness was not being able to build a good deck on my own (without consulting online decks, databases, meta).

[cubboyroy1826]

Very happy to see the ability to play friends/family is being added in November. Really loving the little rewards to get you to come back and play everyday. I also like the experience level matchups so I don't go in and play some superstar randomly. I think this weekend I will take a swing at playing a booster draft. While I don't think my Magic skills are anywhere near where they probably need to be I always had fun with drafts back in the day. I must admit having roped in three other players in the house we are all having a blast so far.

[Toddzilla]

Go for it - the ROI is better than just buying cards, even if you lose all your matches.

[Izulde]

I didn't realize so many FOFCers played. I might actually jump in on Arena at some point, though I prefer to play in person.

[JAG]

I joined up as well, thanks for pointing this out. I haven’t played a ton vs other people previously, most of my experience is having fun in the old Shandalar game. I find it fun so far, interface a bit clunky, got crushed by my two opponents, but I’ll come back for some more beatings.

[cubboyroy1826]

Had a good 5 game winning streak last night which was fun and help me hit the 5 wins in one day and 15 wins in the week to get a free pack for each. Having a very good time so far. I probably should start playing around with building a deck soon.

[Thomkal]

Glad to see so many of you enjoying the game.

[Toddzilla]

I'm trying to make a deck built around gaining life, doing damage when I gain life, and drawing enough cards to keep it going. I've started with:

Fountain of Renewal
Dawn of Hope
Ajani's Welcome
+
Epicure of Blood
maybe some Call to the Feast

but I don't think I'll be able to keep the cards coming

[Toddzilla]

Is there a card that deals damage whenever I draw?

[Warhammer]

Just downloaded it....

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I'm trying to make a deck built around gaining life, doing damage when I gain life, and drawing enough cards to keep it going. I've started with:

Fountain of Renewal
Dawn of Hope
Ajani's Welcome
+
Epicure of Blood
maybe some Call to the Feast

but I don't think I'll be able to keep the cards coming

Oh so you're the guy who'd run that irritating Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood combo in EDH.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Is there a card that deals damage whenever I draw?

There is some expensive legendary red-blue guy that I believe did that to me this morning, Niv-Mizzet or something like that.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JAG

There is some expensive legendary red-blue guy that I believe did that to me this morning, Niv-Mizzet or something like that.

Screw that smug dragon. Every time someone plays him against me in Limited, I lose, no matter how far ahead I was.

[Fidatelo]

I am still loving the game, but there are two decks that I've learned I just hate to play against, even in games I win:

- Black/Blue control with that stupid combo of Disinformation Campaign and Thought Erasure. After the first 4 turns it is basically like watching someone else play a game of solitaire.

- Blue/White with that Teferri planeswalker guy. Similar feeling to above, just feels totally locked down once that guy hits the table.

Otherwise the game is super fun, and I've been playing it a tonne. I've been using mtgarena.pro to track my collection and progress, and I added up my wins and losses the other day. Turns out I've played 260 matches since Oct 16 when I started using the tracker! I think I might have a problem...

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I am still loving the game, but there are two decks that I've learned I just hate to play against, even in games I win:

- Black/Blue control with that stupid combo of Disinformation Campaign and Thought Erasure. After the first 4 turns it is basically like watching someone else play a game of solitaire.

- Blue/White with that Teferri planeswalker guy. Similar feeling to above, just feels totally locked down once that guy hits the table.

Yep...with that fucking Dimir Spybug. If I'm not playing competitive and I see either of those decks - or the GODDAMN MERFOLK - I bail. Nobody got time for that.

Oh, and my Life/Death deck is super-fun....

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I am still loving the game, but there are two decks that I've learned I just hate to play against, even in games I win:

- Black/Blue control with that stupid combo of Disinformation Campaign and Thought Erasure. After the first 4 turns it is basically like watching someone else play a game of solitaire.

- Blue/White with that Teferri planeswalker guy. Similar feeling to above, just feels totally locked down once that guy hits the table.

Otherwise the game is super fun, and I've been playing it a tonne. I've been using mtgarena.pro to track my collection and progress, and I added up my wins and losses the other day. Turns out I've played 260 matches since Oct 16 when I started using the tracker! I think I might have a problem...

Well Teferi is one of the best planeswalkers they've ever printed so no shame in losing to it.

[Toddzilla]

Someone just dropped a Famished Paladin + Sorcerer's Wand + Lifelink combo on me (while I was up 44-2 in life). Oof.

[JAG]

I built a mono blue budget deck and I’m having fun with it. This morning was the first time I got to seven wins in the best of one constructed event.

EDIT: That also included my first win vs mono red aggro which made me happy (after it had crushed me 5-6 times or so).

[JAG]

dola

Any suggestions for drafting? I haven’t done that yet, but it’s on my to-do list at some point.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JAG

dola

Any suggestions for drafting? I haven’t done that yet, but it’s on my to-do list at some point.

Don't go into it expecting to draft certain colors. Draft to the strength of what the random draw gives you. Be aware of the environment you are drafting in. What colors work better together in whatever expansion you are drafting in. What "extras" (like undergrowth, trample) have a lot of cards in the set in there-so you can be on the lookout for them in the draft. Look too to see if the expansion has a "work together" mechanic-like pirates, knights, magicians-be on the lookout early for the legendaries/rares that fuel such a deck and go all out if you get one or two. Expect you will end up making a deck with two colors and maybe three.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JAG

dola

Any suggestions for drafting? I haven’t done that yet, but it’s on my to-do list at some point.

BREAD

Bombs
Removal
Evasion
Aggro
Duds

should be your general priority early, unless you're focusing heavily on the aggro plan. I tend to favor Evasion (Flying/Unblockable) when I can get it. Most people forget the importance of Removal. Bombs are what give you gas, but I would avoid anything higher than a 6 drop, unless you're drafting something specific for your collection.

Keep within 2-3 colors as much as possible, but don't be afraid to change midstream if you have to, and don't discount the value in hate drafting (ie blocking other players' presumed prime picks).

Draft is my most successful competitive format FWIW - and where I've gotten the most wins.

[Toddzilla]

Also, it's not a true "draft". You aren't drafting cards with other users, you draft against the AI which removes a card from the pool each round. It's not very good, imo, except as a way to get cards cheaply.

[Thomkal]

The ability to directly challenge your friends in Arena is coming Nov 15th. That's the day after my birthday, so for a present I ask you all lose horribly to me


You Can Finally Challenge Friends In MTG Arena Nov. 15 - MMO Bomb

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

The ability to directly challenge your friends in Arena is coming Nov 15th. ]

Yessss!

[Warhammer]

How do you add friends?

Also, how do the wildcards work? You get so many to start, use them and they replenish?