Werewolf XXXIII: To Crown a King 2 (Game Over) - Page 4

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:21 PM

Brian, what is the right answer to this one? If I say it wasn't part of my code, then I'm lying to protect my membership, right?

That said, it was not part of my code. If it was part of someone's code today, they will probably be able to verify tomorrow that I'm not part of their faction. But if that is indeed a key part of one faction's code their leader should look for something a little tougher to pick out tomorrow.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Ok, so Hoopsguy believes that ellipses were the code for a faction, I get that.
Blade used the ellipses.
now I still don't understand the Anxiety thing.
Also, is hoops' point that Blade was using the ellipses incorrectly?
Also, why jail Blade, why not execute him if you think he is a baddie?

I'm still trying to understand everything. Because of my history with Blade, I really want to make sure I have a good reason before voting him to jail or death the first day.

You can't execute someone who isn't in jail.

Chief Rum · 09-26-2006, 03:23 PM

hoops, that seems quite a reach. Looking back at the posts, in your very first post on the new day, you used an ellipsis. But you are saying now that that is NOT a sign for your faction.

BrianD's response was odd in that he asked why the thread was so slow just an hour or so into things. It might have been just another check in post, or maybe he was trying to find an excuse to get a post in to get his ellipsis in.

Or it might have been nothing at all, and the ellipsis means nothing.

And if you aren't claiming the ellipsis as your own faction's signal, how do you know Blade and BrianD aren't on the same team but unknownst to each other? I have reason to believe there are at least three members to each faction (based on my simple math). What if neither Blade or Briad are their faction's leader? They would then know the leader but not each other. And an ellipsis isn't enough right now for Brian to throw out protection for Blade.

WVUFAN · 09-26-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

WVU, I really do not think today is an exercise in futility.

From Post #124:

You have a point in that there's people you know are safe, and hense won't vote to jail or kill them, but otherwise, it's honestly a crapshoot, even you have to admit that. The nature of this game will make votes have meaning quicker, but not the first round.

In other words, I'm picking your name out of a virtual hat, not because I necessarily think you're an Assassin.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:26 PM

Real, let me expand a little on your post:

Blade was a long way from the first person to include an ellipsis in his post. The first person posting in line with a code is near-cleared for me. Every person who follows is a little more suspect.

The Anxiety thing - Brian was asking me about Blade. Earlier, I had thought he might be part of a faction with Anxiety based on logic besides the ellipsis - I had not yet classified Brian. One of my posts had an ellipsis in it, but I'm not a member of that faction so I figured the same could be true of Brian.

So, I figured that BrianD believes he is aligned with either Blade or Anxiety. I figured I would give him an option of indicating which one he trusted - if he picked Blade then I would unvote Blade. But it was not meant as an either/or for my vote with regards to Anxiety.

I thought we had to jail first, then execute in this version of the game. I'll double-check the rules on this.

Chief Rum · 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Ok, so Hoopsguy believes that ellipses were the code for a faction, I get that.
Blade used the ellipses.
now I still don't understand the Anxiety thing.
Also, is hoops' point that Blade was using the ellipses incorrectly?
Also, why jail Blade, why not execute him if you think he is a baddie?

I'm still trying to understand everything. Because of my history with Blade, I really want to make sure I have a good reason before voting him to jail or death the first day.

Ditto on the Anxiety thing, too, REal DEal.

hoops can you explain that one?

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Brian, what is the right answer to this one? If I say it wasn't part of my code, then I'm lying to protect my membership, right?

That said, it was not part of my code. If it was part of someone's code today, they will probably be able to verify tomorrow that I'm not part of their faction. But if that is indeed a key part of one faction's code their leader should look for something a little tougher to pick out tomorrow.

There really isn't a right or wrong answer. The ellipses could be part of a code, but I'm going to guess it wasn't. The tricky part of using codes in messages is that you have to come up with something people wouldn't do accidentally, or in normal conversation. Lots of people use ellipses, so that wouldn't work so well as a code. It is true that there have been at least three variations so far today (words connected by 3 dots, words connected by 3 dots and a space, words connected by a space followed by 3 dots followed by a space), but that is still a dangerous thing to use since it is easy for people to use them without realizing it was a code.

Out of curiosity, was I the first around here to use a code system a few games back? I'm wondering if I opened Pandora's Box with that one? I made the system fairly elaborate to prevent accidental inclusion...which is very easy to have happen.

Chief Rum · 09-26-2006, 03:28 PM

Oh hoops responded about ANxiety while I posted.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So, I figured that BrianD believes he is aligned with either Blade or Anxiety. I figured I would give him an option of indicating which one he trusted - if he picked Blade then I would unvote Blade. But it was not meant as an either/or for my vote with regards to Anxiety.

I don't know if I said this specifially before, but I have no reason to believe that I am in a faction with Blade or Anxiety. It is possible that I am, but I have no reason to believe that I am.

As far as the ellipses go...I use them a lot. I'm probably going to use them more now because it has become fun.

Quote:

I thought we had to jail first, then execute in this version of the game. I'll double-check the rules on this.

That is my understanding too.

WVUFAN · 09-26-2006, 03:33 PM

-.-. --- -.. . ... / .- .-. . / ..-. ..- -. / ..--.. /

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Let me come at this from another direction, Brian:

If you had to pick one person to defend at this point, would you go with Blade or Anxiety? We don't have a lot of posts from either of them yet ... but with the information we currently have I think Blade is making a play.

In fairness to Blade, he's always making a play.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Chief, I would agree it is a reach. I'm not saying I have drop-dead proof of Blade as a bad guy here. But it is a Day 1 theory and I ran with it. And I reserve the right to change my mind, depending on how much resistance I run into from other participants.

At the very least, I am trying to maximize the game rather than sitting back and saying "Day 1 is random" and throwing virtual darts for my vote.

As far as protecting a suspected teammate, I would definitely do it if I felt, based on their posts, that they part of my faction. If BrianD felt like Blade was a teammate, then he should try to help him even if he isn't 100% sure. If BrianD felt that Blade was his teammate because of an ellipsis, then I'm telling him to make sure it is legit.

Keep in mind that I was the first person to post today using an ellipsis:

Post #85 by Hoopsguy 7:26AM (CST)
Post #87 by BrianD 8:58AM (CST)
Post #97 by Dodgerchick with a couple of them
Post #98 by Blade

I put the vote out there at #100.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

-.-. --- -.. . ... / .- .-. . / ..-. ..- -. / ..--.. /

Not really.

ntndeacon · 09-26-2006, 03:36 PM

... I... don't...understand...why... using...ellipses...would...be...a...good...code...

(Ellipses ARE fun!)

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

There really isn't a right or wrong answer. The ellipses could be part of a code, but I'm going to guess it wasn't. The tricky part of using codes in messages is that you have to come up with something people wouldn't do accidentally, or in normal conversation. Lots of people use ellipses, so that wouldn't work so well as a code. It is true that there have been at least three variations so far today (words connected by 3 dots, words connected by 3 dots and a space, words connected by a space followed by 3 dots followed by a space), but that is still a dangerous thing to use since it is easy for people to use them without realizing it was a code.

Out of curiosity, was I the first around here to use a code system a few games back? I'm wondering if I opened Pandora's Box with that one? I made the system fairly elaborate to prevent accidental inclusion...which is very easy to have happen.

I came back to a fun discussion i see...2 things for now:

First of all, i didnt even know that dash was an elipse until you said it. It is not a code im trying to crack, it is merely how i express a random number in between two points.

Secondly, codes have been used before that many times. I believe WVUfan and i had an very complex code awhile ago that no one even even know we used(never mentioned it until right now) during one game. They key was we made it soo complex no one would accidently use it, but not too complex where it seems out of the ordinary. As well, it had to be too tough to crack as a bad guy, but not too hard for ourselves to use it in normal conversation. Elipses, to me, are far too likely to be used in conversation by random players. I know what my faction leader sent me in the message, and it had nothing to do with elipses.

Hoops, i just wanted to point out you picked two of the more experienced players and tried to make them the only two options on day 1. Usually when your bad you like to present ideas but vote as a follower on day one. So im leaning towards you being good right now. So work with me a little here, as as i did for you last game with my distrust

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Really stupid question here, but what exactly is "checking in"? Is it, "noble checking in", or something similar to that? Or is it simply posting in the thread?

"Checking in" is basically an acknowledgement that you've received your role, whatever it may be. Most people make a fluff post claiming to be whatever the "red shirt" is in the game (nobles here), which is pretty pointless because we all know that some are lying.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:38 PM

Hoops, I admire the vigor. I don't know that I am coming with you on this one, but I applaud the effort.

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief, I would agree it is a reach. I'm not saying I have drop-dead proof of Blade as a bad guy here. But it is a Day 1 theory and I ran with it. And I reserve the right to change my mind, depending on how much resistance I run into from other participants.

At the very least, I am trying to maximize the game rather than sitting back and saying "Day 1 is random" and throwing virtual darts for my vote.

As far as protecting a suspected teammate, I would definitely do it if I felt, based on their posts, that they part of my faction. If BrianD felt like Blade was a teammate, then he should try to help him even if he isn't 100% sure. If BrianD felt that Blade was his teammate because of an ellipsis, then I'm telling him to make sure it is legit.

Keep in mind that I was the first person to post today using an ellipsis:

Post #85 by Hoopsguy 7:26AM (CST)
Post #87 by BrianD 8:58AM (CST)
Post #97 by Dodgerchick with a couple of them
Post #98 by Blade

I put the vote out there at #100.

Hoops, first of all i view this more as you trying to eliminate rival factions then assasins. I figure you think if i am bad, bonus. If not, im still not in your faction. From what you have said im fairly certain were not in the same faction, which is fine. But im good, and jailing me will only delay your own factions crowning due to points lost(esp. since you cast the first vote)

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:42 PM

And i have a VERY HARD time believing you are truly going to reveal your other faction members this early in the game, especially that you know the role of one, when your faction is your key to victory. So i have a hard time believing your claims about the code(which you hint at in your post # comments), and your claims that you will reveal your freinds tomorrow.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:43 PM

I'm not planning on giving out my own faction clue, nor any others that I think might be in play at the moment. But I have a couple of indicators that I'm pretty convinced are "faction tells" that I'm using to start my safe list today. Heck, one of them that I'm less sure on may pertain to Blade as well ...

Chief (and WVU), voting for me is not going to help your faction today. I know that you would expect that response from me no matter what side I'm playing on, but consider that I posted very early today and that my first post does in fact contain my faction code (no, not an ellipsis). That would be challenging to fake as an assassin.

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Can I guess? Was it...the ellipses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief, Brian already posted it ... see Post #140.

That's an... interesting... choice as a code, considering that some people (myself included) will tend to use ellipses while musing. I'd tend to think that I've done it on day 1 in the past, though I'm not sure.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And i have a VERY HARD time believing you are truly going to reveal your other faction members this early in the game, especially that you know the role of one, when your faction is your key to victory. So i have a hard time believing your claims about the code(which you hint at in your post # comments), and your claims that you will reveal your freinds tomorrow.

If he knows the identity of one of his faction members, maybe we should be scouring his posts to see if there is anything matching anyone else. I believe he and Chief Rum were the only ones to use a space-3dot-space ellipse. Maybe the current vote for Hoops is meant to throw people off after a later switch.

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not planning on giving out my own faction clue, nor any others that I think might be in play at the moment. But I have a couple of indicators that I'm pretty convinced are "faction tells" that I'm using to start my safe list today. Heck, one of them that I'm less sure on may pertain to Blade as well ...

Chief (and WVU), voting for me is not going to help your faction today. I know that you would expect that response from me no matter what side I'm playing on, but consider that I posted very early today and that my first post does in fact contain my faction code (no, not an ellipsis). That would be challenging to fake as an assassin.

SO you want me to believe you are too poor of a player to make such a ploy? I think highly of you hoops, you know that. Trying to say it would be too difficult to fake is not something ill buy from you

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not planning on giving out my own faction clue, nor any others that I think might be in play at the moment.

So what was the WHOLE deal with the elipses, the major reason you voted for me...or this post where you refer to yourself using the elipse?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Keep in mind that I was the first person to post today using an ellipsis:

Post #85 by Hoopsguy 7:26AM (CST)
Post #87 by BrianD 8:58AM (CST)
Post #97 by Dodgerchick with a couple of them
Post #98 by Blade

I put the vote out there at #100.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:48 PM

Blade, I have expressly said I won't reveal my own code. But if I saw one of my faction members in trouble I would back them indirectly/directly to try and keep them out of jail.

As far as complex codes, the short message (12 words) does make it a little more difficult.

Blade, I'll work through this with you if you have any other theories to present. I think since the time I first posted the vote I said that I was willing to move it if someone came up with a good reason to not have it there.

Personally, I'm satisfied to have gotten some real Day 1 conversation flowing, although not too excited about attracting two votes in the process.

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, I have expressly said I won't reveal my own code. But if I saw one of my faction members in trouble I would back them indirectly/directly to try and keep them out of jail.

As far as complex codes, the short message (12 words) does make it a little more difficult.

Blade, I'll work through this with you if you have any other theories to present. I think since the time I first posted the vote I said that I was willing to move it if someone came up with a good reason to not have it there.

Personally, I'm satisfied to have gotten some real Day 1 conversation flowing, although not too excited about attracting two votes in the process.

While i do agree with you trying to get people to reveal information, you also know my views on that topic. I think it is far too early in the game for me to be telling you information that may allow bad guys to get in our groups or to kill my fellow faction members. You claimed a code, claimed i tried to latch onto it, then said you wont reveal your code or anyone elses you even suspect. And now you want me to give you ideas of what clues i see. Im sorry hoops, those chain of events do not look beneficial to the good cause.

VOTE JAIL HOOPSGUY

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Out of curiosity, was I the first around here to use a code system a few games back? I'm wondering if I opened Pandora's Box with that one? I made the system fairly elaborate to prevent accidental inclusion...which is very easy to have happen.

The code system was originally used in Barkeep's previous game, for exactly the same purpose Hoops is suggesting here -- for faction members to identify themselves to one another and to the leader. I would presume that it's something Barkeep planned for in setting this one up.

The benefit is that you have an early "circle of trust". The hazard is that if you lose a fast-talker, they've cracked your circle.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:53 PM

Blade, here is how I saw the chain of events prior to the vote:

1. You are in thread
2. You are not posting in thread for awhile - catching up on events
3. You drop a quick post and are out for a few hours
4. The post contains the ellipsis that I have seen as a recurring theme in posts today

Is the ellipsis really an indicator for a faction? Who knows - it isn't really important. What is important, as far as my theory goes, is that you saw multiple people incorporate them into short early-morning posts. So you looked at this as an opportunity to align yourself with a faction.

I guarantee that would be my play as a bad guy in this game. I think you are cagey enough to do the same - I'm pulling the Blade "compliment you as I vote for you" trick here

Again, if/when someone comes with an alternate theory that doesn't involve jailing me, I'm willing to listen. So far I have not heard one ...

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 03:54 PM

If it's hoops vs. blade, for today I'm going to side with hoops.

VOTE JAIL Blade6119

bulletsponge · 09-26-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And, a separate conversation piece - the following people have not posted since the start of Day 1:

Qwikshot
Lonestargirl
Bulletsponge
Bek
Greyroofoo
St. Cronin
Kingfc22
Chief Rum
WVUFan

i just got home from work, and im reading all the nutty paranioa

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 03:57 PM

Blade, I'm not sure I understand how I'm asking for information that may kill your fellow faction members. The assassins are going to try and kill people who are directly threatening them or who are on a team that is accumulating points too quickly (these are likely to coincide). If your team is going down the wrong path - you know, like voting for me - then you are not going to be accumulating points or threatening the assassins.

I'm willing to put out other theories on potential "noble tells" but I would find it interesting to see if anyone else has found anything at all up to this point. I've got four other possibilities (not including my own faction) for those tells and it would be reassuring to me to see someone independently validate one of them.

bulletsponge · 09-26-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

-.-. --- -.. . ... / .- .-. . / ..-. ..- -. / ..--.. /

that says you watch gay porn while washing the dog.

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, here is how I saw the chain of events prior to the vote:

1. You are in thread
2. You are not posting in thread for awhile - catching up on events
3. You drop a quick post and are out for a few hours
4. The post contains the ellipsis that I have seen as a recurring theme in posts today

Is the ellipsis really an indicator for a faction? Who knows - it isn't really important. What is important, as far as my theory goes, is that you saw multiple people incorporate them into short early-morning posts. So you looked at this as an opportunity to align yourself with a faction.

I guarantee that would be my play as a bad guy in this game. I think you are cagey enough to do the same - I'm pulling the Blade "compliment you as I vote for you" trick here

Again, if/when someone comes with an alternate theory that doesn't involve jailing me, I'm willing to listen. So far I have not heard one ...

I know of 2 things today:
1.My leader and his message
2.You voting for me and calling me a bad guy

I will not discuss #1, no matter what...it is far too early in the game for that. #2, well i dont know how to respond to it really. I dont think your bad, but im not going to let myself be jailed on day one. You have presented no alternative to me getting lynched, so i must vote you. I hope you reconsider, as i dont think either outcome is beneficial for the villagers, but im prepared to take you on if need be to surive.

Oh, and -------------------------

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, I'm not sure I understand how I'm asking for information that may kill your fellow faction members. The assassins are going to try and kill people who are directly threatening them or who are on a team that is accumulating points too quickly (these are likely to coincide). If your team is going down the wrong path - you know, like voting for me - then you are not going to be accumulating points or threatening the assassins.

I'm willing to put out other theories on potential "noble tells" but I would find it interesting to see if anyone else has found anything at all up to this point. I've got four other possibilities (not including my own faction) for those tells and it would be reassuring to me to see someone independently validate one of them.

Like i said, i have one fact and that is who my leader is and what message he sent out. I have ideas off that fact, but any of them reveal or hint strongly at what the message was. I am not willing to compromise my fellow faction members just to give you food for thought.

Your asking me for theories, and i have one. That one is fact, and i will not share it. Are you asking me to try and find codes in other posts that might reveal other factions? I just think thats bad news. As for finding assasins, im not sure of the best course this early in the game. But i dont believe your current idea if i understand you properly is the best route.

Greyroofoo · 09-26-2006, 04:06 PM

Good Guy Checking in

And continuing to catch up....

bulletsponge · 09-26-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I know of 2 things today:
1.My leader and his message
2.You voting for me and calling me a bad guy

I will not discuss #1, no matter what...it is far too early in the game for that. #2, well i dont know how to respond to it really. I dont think your bad, but im not going to let myself be jailed on day one. You have presented no alternative to me getting lynched, so i must vote you. I hope you reconsider, as i dont think either outcome is beneficial for the villagers, but im prepared to take you on if need be to surive.

Oh, and -------------------------

people vote for you because your Blade, thats why. i for one like to keep you around because your good for 1 crazy moment each game. at least 1. i will vote for someone whom hasnt posted by tonight, i think we should put heat on nonposters

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The code system was originally used in Barkeep's previous game, for exactly the same purpose Hoops is suggesting here -- for faction members to identify themselves to one another and to the leader. I would presume that it's something Barkeep planned for in setting this one up.

The benefit is that you have an early "circle of trust". The hazard is that if you lose a fast-talker, they've cracked your circle.

Bummer. I'm not as cool as I thought I was.

st.cronin · 09-26-2006, 04:07 PM

Well ... this is interesting. And, strangely enough, day 1 is unfolding exactly the same way for me as in the last game hosted by Barkeep. Which, as I posted above, was a game I was completely bewildered by. I don't expect I'll be much help to anybody this game. I don't think I agree with hoops analysis yet, but I don't exactly DISagree, either, so I'll go in a different direction.

JAIL LONESTARGIRL

Nothing to go on, except as far as I can tell she's not in my faction. Whatever that means.

WVUFAN · 09-26-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

that says you watch gay porn while washing the dog.

Yeah, but only if I'm washing a St Bernard. Otherwise the gay porn has no meaning.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 04:09 PM

For what it is worth, I'm fine with a 1 vs 1 showdown with Blade under these rules. Loser get jail. When the points come out, if the totals are all negative then both Blade and I are essentially cleared. We lose a day in the process but two strong voices are added to the good guy list and it makes the decision process more challenging for the assassins going forward.

If someone knows that Blade is a member of their faction, based upon his posts, then I would love it if they would step forward to help avoid a noble vs noble showdown. But without that knowledge, I'm just fine being in any kind of 1 on 1 showdown, preferably with a tricky/good player that I already suspect.

I'm not a noble leader, I don't have any special role/powers that I know of, so the only thing I can bring to the game is my perspective. If having a run-off with Blade helps preserve special roles for a night, that is cool. I want my faction to win, but more importantly I want to see us take down the assassins and we will definitely learn something from a showdown today.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, I'm fine with a 1 vs 1 showdown with Blade under these rules. Loser get jail. When the points come out, if the totals are all negative then both Blade and I are essentially cleared. We lose a day in the process but two strong voices are added to the good guy list and it makes the decision process more challenging for the assassins going forward.

I don't believe it works this way. Points don't come out until thre is an execution. Just jailing someone won't update the point total.

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, I'm fine with a 1 vs 1 showdown with Blade under these rules. Loser get jail. When the points come out, if the totals are all negative then both Blade and I are essentially cleared. We lose a day in the process but two strong voices are added to the good guy list and it makes the decision process more challenging for the assassins going forward.

If someone knows that Blade is a member of their faction, based upon his posts, then I would love it if they would step forward to help avoid a noble vs noble showdown. But without that knowledge, I'm just fine being in any kind of 1 on 1 showdown, preferably with a tricky/good player that I already suspect.

I'm not a noble leader, I don't have any special role/powers that I know of, so the only thing I can bring to the game is my perspective. If having a run-off with Blade helps preserve special roles for a night, that is cool. I want my faction to win, but more importantly I want to see us take down the assassins and we will definitely learn something from a showdown today.

First of all, jailing one would clear that one. Not both "strong voices." if im jailed, you are in no ways cleared when the points come out negative.

And i repeat, i do not want my faction members to reveal. Just as many of hoops' team members have come forward to protect him as mine have to protect me(0). So stop calling for my faction to reveal to save me when yours has done nothing to clear you either

WVUFAN · 09-26-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, I'm fine with a 1 vs 1 showdown with Blade under these rules. Loser get jail. When the points come out, if the totals are all negative then both Blade and I are essentially cleared. We lose a day in the process but two strong voices are added to the good guy list and it makes the decision process more challenging for the assassins going forward.

If someone knows that Blade is a member of their faction, based upon his posts, then I would love it if they would step forward to help avoid a noble vs noble showdown. But without that knowledge, I'm just fine being in any kind of 1 on 1 showdown, preferably with a tricky/good player that I already suspect.

I'm not a noble leader, I don't have any special role/powers that I know of, so the only thing I can bring to the game is my perspective. If having a run-off with Blade helps preserve special roles for a night, that is cool. I want my faction to win, but more importantly I want to see us take down the assassins and we will definitely learn something from a showdown today.

I gotta say, you've got a BUNCH of good points on this. There's no downside to a 1-1 like this. I also like that you're the first to make mention of this and are willing to do it to get the assassins. (which is the true first intent of everyone who is a Noble).

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
JAIL BLADE

Blade6119 · 09-26-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

I also like that you're the first to make mention of this and are willing to do it to get the assassins. (which is the true first intent of everyone who is a Noble).

A major victory is achieved when your leader is crowned, not when the assasins are no longer free. The first true intent of this game is to get my faction leader crowned, and it should be yours as well

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And i repeat, i do not want my faction members to reveal. Just as many of hoops' team members have come forward to protect him as mine have to protect me(0). So stop calling for my faction to reveal to save me when yours has done nothing to clear you either

Now, that's a very interesting point.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't believe it works this way. Points don't come out until thre is an execution. Just jailing someone won't update the point total.

Upon further review, looks like this is correct. Points are accumulated for jail decisions, but not posted until execution.

With that in mind, I'm not as excited about a 1:1 showdown because it doesn't really gain us anything. While putting me in jail won't impact me - I don't know of any night abilities that I possess - it does keep us from putting an assassin in jail who we can later execute.

WVUFAN · 09-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

A major victory is achieved when your leader is crowned, not when the assasins are no longer free. The first true intent of this game is to get my faction leader crowned, and it should be yours as well

The first true intent of the game is to kill the assassins. Secondly is not to be killed yourself. THIRD is for your faction to win. Let's not confuse who the real enemy here is.

hoopsguy · 09-26-2006, 04:19 PM

Cronin, Post #188:

Quote:

Nothing to go on, except as far as I can tell she's not in my faction. Whatever that means

How do you know she is not in your faction when she has not posted since the start of the day?

Mr. Wednesday · 09-26-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

A major victory is achieved when your leader is crowned, not when the assasins are no longer free. The first true intent of this game is to get my faction leader crowned, and it should be yours as well

A major victory is both no free assassins and one's own faction (not necessarily the leader) crowned king.

Getting one's own faction crowned will only result in a "normal" victory.

BrianD · 09-26-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

The first true intent of the game is to kill the assassins. Secondly is not to be killed yourself. THIRD is for your faction to win. Let's not confuse who the real enemy here is.

To be fair, you get your leader crowned (faction win) by killing assassins. Those goals aren't sequential, they are tied together.

09-26-2006, 03:23 PM	#153
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	hoops, that seems quite a reach. Looking back at the posts, in your very first post on the new day, you used an ellipsis. But you are saying now that that is NOT a sign for your faction. BrianD's response was odd in that he asked why the thread was so slow just an hour or so into things. It might have been just another check in post, or maybe he was trying to find an excuse to get a post in to get his ellipsis in. Or it might have been nothing at all, and the ellipsis means nothing. And if you aren't claiming the ellipsis as your own faction's signal, how do you know Blade and BrianD aren't on the same team but unknownst to each other? I have reason to believe there are at least three members to each faction (based on my simple math). What if neither Blade or Briad are their faction's leader? They would then know the leader but not each other. And an ellipsis isn't enough right now for Brian to throw out protection for Blade. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

09-26-2006, 03:28 PM	#158
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Oh hoops responded about ANxiety while I posted. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

09-26-2006, 03:33 PM	#160
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	-.-. --- -.. . ... / .- .-. . / ..-. ..- -. / ..--.. / __________________

09-26-2006, 03:42 PM	#169
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	And i have a VERY HARD time believing you are truly going to reveal your other faction members this early in the game, especially that you know the role of one, when your faction is your key to victory. So i have a hard time believing your claims about the code(which you hint at in your post # comments), and your claims that you will reveal your freinds tomorrow. __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

09-26-2006, 03:54 PM	#179
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	If it's hoops vs. blade, for today I'm going to side with hoops. VOTE JAIL Blade6119 __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

09-26-2006, 03:21 PM	#151
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Brian, what is the right answer to this one? If I say it wasn't part of my code, then I'm lying to protect my membership, right? That said, it was not part of my code. If it was part of someone's code today, they will probably be able to verify tomorrow that I'm not part of their faction. But if that is indeed a key part of one faction's code their leader should look for something a little tougher to pick out tomorrow.

09-26-2006, 03:26 PM	#155
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Real, let me expand a little on your post: Blade was a long way from the first person to include an ellipsis in his post. The first person posting in line with a code is near-cleared for me. Every person who follows is a little more suspect. The Anxiety thing - Brian was asking me about Blade. Earlier, I had thought he might be part of a faction with Anxiety based on logic besides the ellipsis - I had not yet classified Brian. One of my posts had an ellipsis in it, but I'm not a member of that faction so I figured the same could be true of Brian. So, I figured that BrianD believes he is aligned with either Blade or Anxiety. I figured I would give him an option of indicating which one he trusted - if he picked Blade then I would unvote Blade. But it was not meant as an either/or for my vote with regards to Anxiety. I thought we had to jail first, then execute in this version of the game. I'll double-check the rules on this.

09-26-2006, 03:36 PM	#162
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Chief, I would agree it is a reach. I'm not saying I have drop-dead proof of Blade as a bad guy here. But it is a Day 1 theory and I ran with it. And I reserve the right to change my mind, depending on how much resistance I run into from other participants. At the very least, I am trying to maximize the game rather than sitting back and saying "Day 1 is random" and throwing virtual darts for my vote. As far as protecting a suspected teammate, I would definitely do it if I felt, based on their posts, that they part of my faction. If BrianD felt like Blade was a teammate, then he should try to help him even if he isn't 100% sure. If BrianD felt that Blade was his teammate because of an ellipsis, then I'm telling him to make sure it is legit. Keep in mind that I was the first person to post today using an ellipsis: Post #85 by Hoopsguy 7:26AM (CST) Post #87 by BrianD 8:58AM (CST) Post #97 by Dodgerchick with a couple of them Post #98 by Blade I put the vote out there at #100.

09-26-2006, 03:36 PM	#164
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	... I... don't...understand...why... using...ellipses...would...be...a...good...code... (Ellipses ARE fun!)

09-26-2006, 03:38 PM	#167
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Hoops, I admire the vigor. I don't know that I am coming with you on this one, but I applaud the effort.

09-26-2006, 03:43 PM	#170
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm not planning on giving out my own faction clue, nor any others that I think might be in play at the moment. But I have a couple of indicators that I'm pretty convinced are "faction tells" that I'm using to start my safe list today. Heck, one of them that I'm less sure on may pertain to Blade as well ... Chief (and WVU), voting for me is not going to help your faction today. I know that you would expect that response from me no matter what side I'm playing on, but consider that I posted very early today and that my first post does in fact contain my faction code (no, not an ellipsis). That would be challenging to fake as an assassin.

09-26-2006, 03:48 PM	#175
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Blade, I have expressly said I won't reveal my own code. But if I saw one of my faction members in trouble I would back them indirectly/directly to try and keep them out of jail. As far as complex codes, the short message (12 words) does make it a little more difficult. Blade, I'll work through this with you if you have any other theories to present. I think since the time I first posted the vote I said that I was willing to move it if someone came up with a good reason to not have it there. Personally, I'm satisfied to have gotten some real Day 1 conversation flowing, although not too excited about attracting two votes in the process.

09-26-2006, 03:53 PM	#178
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Blade, here is how I saw the chain of events prior to the vote: 1. You are in thread 2. You are not posting in thread for awhile - catching up on events 3. You drop a quick post and are out for a few hours 4. The post contains the ellipsis that I have seen as a recurring theme in posts today Is the ellipsis really an indicator for a faction? Who knows - it isn't really important. What is important, as far as my theory goes, is that you saw multiple people incorporate them into short early-morning posts. So you looked at this as an opportunity to align yourself with a faction. I guarantee that would be my play as a bad guy in this game. I think you are cagey enough to do the same - I'm pulling the Blade "compliment you as I vote for you" trick here Again, if/when someone comes with an alternate theory that doesn't involve jailing me, I'm willing to listen. So far I have not heard one ...

09-26-2006, 03:57 PM	#181
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Blade, I'm not sure I understand how I'm asking for information that may kill your fellow faction members. The assassins are going to try and kill people who are directly threatening them or who are on a team that is accumulating points too quickly (these are likely to coincide). If your team is going down the wrong path - you know, like voting for me - then you are not going to be accumulating points or threatening the assassins. I'm willing to put out other theories on potential "noble tells" but I would find it interesting to see if anyone else has found anything at all up to this point. I've got four other possibilities (not including my own faction) for those tells and it would be reassuring to me to see someone independently validate one of them.

09-26-2006, 04:06 PM	#185
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Good Guy Checking in And continuing to catch up....

09-26-2006, 04:07 PM	#188
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Well ... this is interesting. And, strangely enough, day 1 is unfolding exactly the same way for me as in the last game hosted by Barkeep. Which, as I posted above, was a game I was completely bewildered by. I don't expect I'll be much help to anybody this game. I don't think I agree with hoops analysis yet, but I don't exactly DISagree, either, so I'll go in a different direction. JAIL LONESTARGIRL Nothing to go on, except as far as I can tell she's not in my faction. Whatever that means. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-26-2006, 04:09 PM	#190
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	For what it is worth, I'm fine with a 1 vs 1 showdown with Blade under these rules. Loser get jail. When the points come out, if the totals are all negative then both Blade and I are essentially cleared. We lose a day in the process but two strong voices are added to the good guy list and it makes the decision process more challenging for the assassins going forward. If someone knows that Blade is a member of their faction, based upon his posts, then I would love it if they would step forward to help avoid a noble vs noble showdown. But without that knowledge, I'm just fine being in any kind of 1 on 1 showdown, preferably with a tricky/good player that I already suspect. I'm not a noble leader, I don't have any special role/powers that I know of, so the only thing I can bring to the game is my perspective. If having a run-off with Blade helps preserve special roles for a night, that is cool. I want my faction to win, but more importantly I want to see us take down the assassins and we will definitely learn something from a showdown today.

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