#CharlestonShooting

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You don't need to drag the entire nation with you, states and cities can ban guns or make them really hard to have. I'd start with Chicago...guns should probably be banned from that city.

Does trying to do something about rapes mean no one can have sex anymore?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I'd start with Chicago...guns should probably be banned from that city.

Didn't they try and the Supreme Court struck the law down?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Does trying to do something about rapes mean no one can have sex anymore?

Haha, um, what?

[cuervo72]

States rights and heritage!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVqvCuOwpZU

(Those silly rioting white people...)

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Didn't they try and the Supreme Court struck the law down?

Try again...it will save 300 lives per year. Good thing ya'll aren't racists...probably be closer to 310 per year.

[BillJasper]

Chicago Gun Ban Ruled Unconstitutional By Federal Judge

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

States rights and heritage!



James Meredith University of Mississippi 1962 Integration Riot Newsreel PublicDomainFootage.com - YouTube

(Those silly rioting white people...)

Good point, Baltimore!!!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Chicago Gun Ban Ruled Unconstitutional By Federal Judge

Too bad, try banning the Confederate flag, that should help.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Too bad, try banning the Confederate flag, that should help.

Nice try at misdirection. No one said it should be banned, only that it shouldn't be flown on government property. Bit of a difference there.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Good point, Baltimore!!!

(substituted out perhaps a better vid, that mentions shooting, molotov coctails, etc. from the rioters)

Well that's the thing. If you riot because you are protesting deaths at the hands of police, you are a bunch of thugs and animals. Rioting because you don't want blacks going to a school? Eh, you know - it's about a meddling Federal government trampling on the rights of the state.

Now, some might say "well, that was fifty years ago - blacks are doing that today." Yeah, no white folks would never pitch a fit today.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Good gracious. Regardless of what you might think of her politics, this is looking like she is pulling this one off masterfully. About 20 minutes ago, this happened.

Bipartisan group of Charleston-area politicians calls for lowering of Confederate flag - Post and Courier

(Yes, that's the freaking WHITE REPUBLICAN MAYOR OF NORTH CHARLESTON SPEAKING IN COHORTS WITH THE NAACP.)

I'm starting to wonder what SC's laws around Executive Orders are. By law, it can't come down until the legislature meets again. but with all this bipartisan stuff happening on the first day of the week, just minutes after she announces the presser, it's starting to seem orchestrated.

Linked from that article is one which shows Tim Scott at Haley's news conference in full support of the flag being taken down.

Gov. Nikki Haley joins call to remove Confederate flag - Post and Courier

also included is a quote from somebody from the Sons of Confederate Veterans and an actual state representative from Aiken who called it a non-issue being made an issue by certain groups to take advantage of a terrible situation," Gee I wonder if it will be a terrible situation when this causes him not to get re-elected? Another called it a Stalinist purge, I wonder how many people in his district know who Stalin was?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(substituted out perhaps a better vid, that mentions shooting, molotov coctails, etc. from the rioters)

Well that's the thing. If you riot because you are protesting deaths at the hands of police, you are a bunch of thugs and animals. Rioting because you don't want blacks going to a school? Eh, you know - it's about a meddling Federal government trampling on the rights of the state.

Now, some might say "well, that was fifty years ago - blacks are doing that today." Yeah, no white folks would never pitch a fit today.

Deadly Riots at Ol' Miss - YouTube

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Nice try at misdirection. No one said it should be banned, only that it shouldn't be flown on government property. Bit of a difference there.

Well something should be banned in Chicago...you pick.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Well something should be banned in Chicago...you pick.

Your posts are nonsensical at this point.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Well something should be banned in Chicago...you pick.

Jay Cutler

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Deadly Riots at Ol' Miss - YouTube

Black people riot after centuries of mistreatment, they're thugs. White people riot because a black person wants to go to school, they're just concerned about states' rights.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jay Cutler

Probably a good start. . I can see morale going up 12% on that move alone.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Well something should be banned in Chicago...you pick.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jay Cutler

+1

[cuervo72]

Non-dola. I actually have to admit that, embarrassingly, I had little to no knowledge about the Ole Miss riots (yeah, I'm not exactly up on my 30 for 30s; also, this is something that is at best given a cursory mention in HS history classes, or at least mine). I looked it up because my wife mentioned that her sister and husband went to Ole Miss, and probably quite happily waved confederate flags at football games. So I went to look more into the history of that. I figured I'd share because it's a good thing to know about.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Black people riot after centuries of mistreatment, they're thugs. White people riot because a black person wants to go to school, they're just concerned about states' rights.

I think people who riot in a civilized society are garbage regardless of race.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Black people riot after centuries of mistreatment, they're thugs. White people riot because a black person wants to go to school, they're just concerned about states' rights.

And you know why black people go to school there now?

Times change...meanwhile in St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore...Los Angeles, Oakland...those white Democrats givin those boys the business.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Jay Cutler

Finally something we can all agree on.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Non-dola. I actually have to admit that, embarrassingly, I had little to no knowledge about the Ole Miss riots (yeah, I'm not exactly up on my 30 for 30s; also, this is something that is at best given a cursory mention in HS history classes, or at least mine). I looked it up because my wife mentioned that her sister and husband went to Ole Miss, and probably quite happily waved confederate flags at football games. So I went to look more into the history of that. I figured I'd share because it's a good thing to know about.

Schools tend to gloss over America's errors. To put it nicely.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think people who riot in a civilized society are garbage regardless of race.

We wouldn't be here as a nation without riots.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Non-dola. I actually have to admit that, embarrassingly, I had little to no knowledge about the Ole Miss riots (yeah, I'm not exactly up on my 30 for 30s; also, this is something that is at best given a cursory mention in HS history classes, or at least mine). I looked it up because my wife mentioned that her sister and husband went to Ole Miss, and probably quite happily waved confederate flags at football games. So I went to look more into the history of that. I figured I'd share because it's a good thing to know about.

When they waved those flags were they thinking about racism or football?

I grew up in Bulldog territory, so this isn't hitting me too hard.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by molson

Finally something we can all agree on.

That is hilarious...its like two dudes arguing and then a hot chick walks by...*pause*....okay, back to fighting.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'd agree with that, but it seems like it's human nature to require major incidents to spur change. That's so much a part of us that I'm not going to criticize a good act because of timing.

So do we give credit to Dylan Roof for creating the environment that led us to this good act?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

When they waved those flags were they thinking about racism or football?

I'd say both?

In 1962, the state agency in charge of universities and colleges, the Institutions of Higher Learning, appointed Barnett the registrar in order to oppose James Meredith's efforts to desegregate Barnett's alma mater, the University of Mississippi. With the accreditation of the state's medical school and other universities in jeopardy due to the political interventions, the IHL board reversed their action after the riots on the campus.[6] Barnett was fined $10,000 and sentenced to jail for contempt but never paid the fine or served a day in jail.[4] This was because the charges were terminated (civil) and dismissed (criminal) by the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals because of "substantial compliance with orders of the court," and "in view of changed circumstances and conditions." Only two Mississippi legislators opposed Barnett's efforts to defy the federal authorities, Joe Wroten and Karl Wiesenburg.

On the night before the Ole Miss riot of 1962 protesting Meredith's entry to the university, Barnett gave his famous sixteen-word "I Love Mississippi" speech at the University of Mississippi football game in Jackson. The Ole Miss Rebels were playing the Kentucky Wildcats. 41,000 fans cheered at the stadium waving thousands of Confederate flags. At halftime, a gigantic Confederate flag was unveiled on the field. The crowd shouted "We want Ross!". Barnett went to the field, grabbed the microphone at the 50-yard line and said to an enthusiastic crowd:

"I love Mississippi! I love her people! Our customs. I love and I respect our heritage."[7]

Barnett sounded like a heck of a guy, btw.

Shortly after he left office, Barnett's looming presence was evident at the first jury trial of white supremacist Byron De La Beckwith in February 1964.[13] De La Beckwith was on trial for the murder of African American civil rights activist Medgar Evers, but an all-white jury was unable to agree on a verdict in both this and a subsequent re-trial. In the second subsequent re-trial, former Governor Ross Barnett interrupted the proceedings, while Myrlie Evers was testifying, to shake hands with Beckwith.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Too bad, try banning the Confederate flag, that should help.

I don't think banning the flag will stop murders. I don't think it'll end racism (heck if anything it'll stoke the fires a bit in the short term). And I think it's really weird how society is taking it's political cues from a comedian on Comedy Central.

With that said, it should have been gone a long time ago. It's a battle flag from a group that attacked America. How can any patriotic American defend that? And on top of that, it was only used by the state as a middle finger to people who wanted desegregation.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think banning the flag will stop murders. I don't think it'll end racism (heck if anything it'll stoke the fires a bit in the short term). And I think it's really weird how society is taking it's political cues from a comedian on Comedy Central.

With that said, it should have been gone a long time ago. It's a battle flag from a group that attacked America. How can any patriotic American defend that? And on top of that, it was only used by the state as a middle finger to people who wanted desegregation.

How's desegregation working up in Chicago? Not 1950's....I mean, today.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Haha, um, what?

So why does doing something about gun violence have to go straight to banning guns?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

We wouldn't be here as a nation without riots.

I don't know if I'd compare the political motives behind the Revolutionary War to those of the people looting a T-Mobile. Nor do I think comparing the position of colonists who had no representation to anyone in this country who has every right to vote on their representation.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

So why does doing something about gun violence have to go straight to banning guns?

It shouldn't, in most situations.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

How's desegregation working up in Chicago? Not 1950's....I mean, today.

I think pretty well. 6th in the world in GDP, better pizza than everyone, and generally a pretty cool place to live with lots of things to do.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know if I'd compare the political motives behind the Revolutionary War to those of the people looting a T-Mobile. Nor do I think comparing the position of colonists who had no representation to anyone in this country who has every right to vote on their representation.

Right, that was the beginning of an insurgency with aims of revolution. Stealing a 12 pack of ginger ale and some Boones Farm is not advancing ones cause nor actually having a cause...other than..."I ain't doing nothing else tonight, lets go get some free stuff. Hey, save the game before we roll out!"

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think pretty well. 6th in the world in GDP, better pizza than everyone, and generally a pretty cool place to live with lots of things to do.

You must live in the "no shooting" section.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(substituted out perhaps a better vid, that mentions shooting, molotov coctails, etc. from the rioters)

Well that's the thing. If you riot because you are protesting deaths at the hands of police, you are a bunch of thugs and animals. Rioting because you don't want blacks going to a school? Eh, you know - it's about a meddling Federal government trampling on the rights of the state.

Now, some might say "well, that was fifty years ago - blacks are doing that today." Yeah, no white folks would never pitch a fit today.

Seriously? Get over yourself.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You must live in the "no shooting" section.

And I don't belong in a gang which accounts for 80% of the homicides.

I know the headlines are bad, but if you aren't involved with gangs, it's pretty safe.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Seriously? Get over yourself.

Seriously? Pound sand. Plenty of folks here and elsewhere ripped the rioters. Hell, some compare them to monkeys, or dogs, or whatever. Well guess what? We all have that in us. Whites have rioted and done plenty worse. Nobody's any better than anyone else. I may not sway anyone with my arguments, but shove off if you think I'll stop making them because they piss somebody off.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Seriously? Pound sand. Plenty of folks here and elsewhere ripped the rioters. Hell, some compare them to monkeys, or dogs, or whatever. Well guess what? We all have that in us. Whites have rioted and done plenty worse. Nobody's any better than anyone else. I may not sway anyone with my arguments, but shove off if you think I'll stop making them because they piss somebody off.

Can't we all just get along?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And I don't belong in a gang which accounts for 80% of the homicides.

I know the headlines are bad, but if you aren't involved with gangs, it's pretty safe.

Charleston is probably the same way. I know the headlines are bad, but if you aren't randomly gunned down by a crazed lunatic every 20 years or so...it's pretty safe.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Can't we all just get along?

Hey, I'd like that. But I think we all need to take a look at reasons why that's not happening. Sometimes that's a little uncomfortable.

[BillJasper]

Call to change Mississippi state flag...

Petition seeks to change Mississippi flag amid Confederate debate

[Dutch]

You better hit all the southern states while you are at it....they are all based loosely on Dixie designs.

[BillJasper]

While I don't normally like Mike Florio, I thought this was a well written article...

The failed rebellion against the United States should not be remembered with honor | ProFootballTalk

I’ve seen some justify the ongoing embrace of the symbol of the failed rebellion against the United States by pointing to the fact that their ancestors fought and died in the failed rebellion against the United States. I can’t relate to that concept, because my ancestors were living in Italy at the time.

But there’s a very good chance I had some lingering relatives who were on the wrong side of World War II. I have zero inclination to honor any of them. Today, 150 years after it ended, why don’t we feel the same way about the wrong side of the Civil War?

[Easy Mac]

According to the Fox Carolina poll at 10 pm, 37% of the respondents were for the flag coming down, 67% against, and 2% undecided. People in South Carolina can't even do simple math, actually taking action on the flag is probably too difficult for them.

As someone who has lived here for 25 years, I would be quite surprised if they vote to bring the flag down. There's too many legislators from the further reaches of the state where a vote to remove it would be detrimental to their reelection.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You better hit all the southern states while you are at it....they are all based loosely on Dixie designs.

One of the people calling for it is the State Speaker of the House. Republican Phillip Gunn...

"We must always remember our past, but that does not mean we must let it define us," [House Speaker Philip] Gunn, a Clinton Republican, said in a statement. "As a Christian, I believe our state's flag has become a point of offense that needs to be removed. We need to begin having conversations about changing Mississippi's flag."

[Dutch]

Nobody asked, but the Mississippi flag should be changed. Will it be okay if its still related to the south?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Your posts are nonsensical at this point.

Seriously. It's like the desperate posts by someone who has no rational reason for anything he says.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Seriously. It's like the desperate posts by someone who has no rational reason for anything he says.

I'm still here. What do you need clarification on?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

According to the Fox Carolina poll at 10 pm, 37% of the respondents were for the flag coming down, 67% against, and 2% undecided. People in South Carolina can't even do simple math, actually taking action on the flag is probably too difficult for them.

As someone who has lived here for 25 years, I would be quite surprised if they vote to bring the flag down. There's too many legislators from the further reaches of the state where a vote to remove it would be detrimental to their reelection.

Merely "detrimental?????" I'm thinking more like "political-career suicide." My assumption is that most rural legislators will either vote no or have some pressing family matter to attend to when the vote is taken. Failing that, there will be no shortage of "I would have voted to keep the flag" candidates in rural SC's upcoming election cycles.