OOTP6 Updates

[Ksyrup]

I only rarely check in over at the OOTP Developments forum, but I figure that maybe those who check more frequently can post bits and pieces of info in one convenient spot, since the release should happen in less than a month.

This is from Marcus on 3/1:

"OK, I will soon code the new draft routines, and for that I need a little help. The generated players will include college and highschool stats. Now, I have no idea about college and highschool baseball, so I need some info:

How many games do college/HS play per year, and what are roughly the average stats? Also, how do great players perform relative to the average?

Thanks for the help!

Cheers,
Markus

PS: OOTP 6 screenshots later this week"


And then again on 3/3:

"One thing I'd like to mention: In OOTP 6, you'll be able to totally hide the ratings Basically, you can set scales for the basic ratings, the talent ratings and ratings like defense + speed. The scales are:
- None displayed
- 1 to 5
- 2 to 8
- 1 to 10
- 1 to 20
- 1 to 100

This way guys who like the real challenge, can turn the ratings off and just go by scouting reports and stats "


Has anyone else run across some nuggets o' info? There's something on the board about an OOTP convention in June. But it's in Ohio, and any self-respecting Michigander wouldn't step foot in Ohio...

[Draft Dodger]

it's been very, very quiet this year.

[Ksyrup]

Yes it has. And the fact that he's just getting around to recoding the draft at the beginning of March...? Not saying it can't be done, but it sounds like ITP put OOTP seriously behind last year's pace.

[kserra]

Has anyone here even played ITP? How well did this game do compared to OOTP?

Kevin

[Sweed]

I'd say a combination of ITP and the new ootp engine for v6. When the new engine was first announced I figured it would push the normal release time back, I've just been hoping it would be ready by opening day.

[Ksyrup]

Not in the same league. It was fun for awhile, but in an arcade game manner, not a true sim. Plus, there wasn't much to do other than sim and watch how you develop.

In fact, after playing ITP for awhile, I became concerned about the free agency process of OOTP, based on how I was being treated as a free agent. Does anyone know whether the OOTP free agency model was simply inserted into ITP, or whether it was modified? I played out two careers, and in each, I was nothing more than a marginal player, but every single time I was a free agent, I would get at least 3-5 4 year offers. It didn't matter what my age was or my previous performance, by the end of the 30 day process, I had a load of offers to choose from, none of which made financial sense for any of the teams.

I'm just wondering if this is how AI teams handle free agency in OOTP as well. I hadn't really looked that closely at it until I was the player going through the process. My hope is that he tweaked it so that you would be ableto play out a long, full career regardless of ability. But that resulted in me signing 3 4-year deals, and a 2-year deal at the end of my career, and in only one instance was I actually put in the rotation - twice I was sent directly to AAA, and once I made the team as a mop-up reliever. One time I got signed, sent to AAA, and released, all by the first weekend of April.

If that's how OOTP works, this game needs far more help than I ever imagined.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

"OK, I will soon code the new draft routines, and for that I need a little help. The generated players will include college and highschool stats. Now, I have no idea about college and highschool baseball, so I need some info:

How many games do college/HS play per year, and what are roughly the average stats? Also, how do great players perform relative to the average?

Am I the only person who is concerned about this?

[Vince]

*Raises his hand*

That seems like a rather large red flag to me...

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, definitly quiet this year for some reason. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

...there's not even a preview anywhere....


Todd

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Am I the only person who is concerned about this?

The thread I got that from has a bunch of people trying to explain that high school and college stats are not the predictors that minor league stats are. I'm not sure where he's going with this - on one hand, if it's a factor, I'm not sure it means much in real life and should factor in much in the game; on the other hand, if it's just window dressing, leave it for a patch/update months down the road.

It's times like these that I prefer Jim's approach better. Rather than come out with an "I'm redoing the draft and have no clue about high school and college baseball stats" out-of-the-blue post, wouldn't it be better for our confidence in the game for him to do some basic research himself, and come back with pointed questions later, or at least, ask his testers before opening it up to the board?

It's obvious that Marcus is a bright guy, but going from "I have no clue" to a solid understanding of the stats and how they might work in relation to his game in such a short period of time...that might test the limits of his brilliance.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Am I the only person who is concerned about this?

I'm betting that would be a "No".

With such a short answer, I'll offer a follow-up question, just for kicks:

Am I the only person who isn't at all surprised by this?

[CraigSca]

I spoke with Markus about this earlier today - the stats are not a complete indicator of major league performance but may provide some value in the context they are created. They're part of the process that allows people who would turn all ratings off (like myself) to have additional insight on players besides a scouting a report or drafting blindly.

Regarding free agency - I don't have ITP, so I can't comment on that, nor do I have the free agency code.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

the stats are not a complete indicator of major league performance but may provide some value in the context they are created.

Now I am more concerned.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I dunno why but for some reason I haven't had the usual anticipation for OOTP this year even with the beginning of spring training. I think it has to do with the Rangers being eliminated in 2 weeks as opposed to their usual 1st week of May.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Now I am more concerned.

Why?

It isn't great to hear that things are lately developing, but frankly the draft doesn't concern me too much in baseball - this isn't football or basketball where the draft is everything. I'd like it to be better, but I can live without perfection in the draft.

As for high school or college stats, I'm not really concerned unless they actually do predict major league performance to a large degree. Most stats are impossible to gauge without a whole lot of context (and even that is probably imposible at the HS level). I'm not sure OOTP is ready for that much "context," so having them as eye candy that gives a little hint is fine with me.

Am I missing something?

[kingnebwsu]

Recoding the engine=good.

My issue with the actual results of the previous 3 games=still a major concern.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Relax, this little feature is something I wanted to build into the game since version 3. And it doesn't really take much time to do at all. The stats will not mean the world, especially HS stats when compiled while playing against easy competition (there are 5 levels of competition). But they may help people who like to play without displayed ratings and just want to pick their players based on scouting reports and college/HS stats.

By the way, ITP did delay the development a little, but the real reason why it has been relatively quiet is that I do not like to hype something anymore . The game will be in great shape when released, and although this time we didn't add as many 'bells and whistles' as in previous versions, it will be a big step forward. The new engine was really a huge project, and now works even better than I hoped it would. Along with lots of new AI code and tons of small but useful enhancements/tweaks, OOTP 6 will be well worth the wait.

Cheers

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

By the way, ITP did delay the development a little, but the real reason why it has been relatively quiet is that I do not like to hype something anymore

That is the best news I've heard about OOTP6. I think less hype is probably a good thing for the product and development. Hopefully, things turn out well and an enjoyable game is the result.

[AgPete]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Relax, this little feature is something I wanted to build into the game since version 3. And it doesn't really take much time to do at all. The stats will not mean the world, especially HS stats when compiled while playing against easy competition (there are 5 levels of competition). But they may help people who like to play without displayed ratings and just want to pick their players based on scouting reports and college/HS stats.

By the way, ITP did delay the development a little, but the real reason why it has been relatively quiet is that I do not like to hype something anymore . The game will be in great shape when released, and although this time we didn't add as many 'bells and whistles' as in previous versions, it will be a big step forward. The new engine was really a huge project, and now works even better than I hoped it would. Along with lots of new AI code and tons of small but useful enhancements/tweaks, OOTP 6 will be well worth the wait.

Cheers

I know I can always count on a fun baseball game from you guys. Hype or no hype, can't wait to play your newest version.

[Ksyrup]

Yes, despite my concerns, I'm still anxiously awaiting this game. I like the varying level of hiding talent ratings that you've added.

[rjolley]

Hey Markus, did you happen to add a field for Lehman(sp?) database location so you don't have to type it in every year for historical leagues?

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Now I am more concerned.

More concerned? If I were implementing something like this, it's exactly how I would do it myself. Basically I'm saying their statistical performance in H.S. or college will not have a 100% direct correlation to their performance in professional baseball. If a guy looks the same to the scouts, but one batted .500 vs another guy batting .450 at a Div 1 southern college it just provides a little context to perhaps give a little hint as to who would may be better. It's not to say the .450 guy isn't, but it's always good to be armed with as much info as you can.

HOWEVER - if it were implemented in a fashion where - the best hitter in college would be the best hitter in the next available draft class all the time - I think that would stink. Statistics can provide insight based on the context they were created. At that level, I would put much more credence into scouting reports and would put their statistical output way down on the list.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yes, despite my concerns, I'm still anxiously awaiting this game. I like the varying level of hiding talent ratings that you've added.

ditto.

and that talk about the development algorithms getting even better. I like the unpredictability stuff that was being mentioned.

(edit: wow, what a worthless post. that's how you get to 1,000 posts, kiddos.)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

More concerned? If I were implementing something like this, it's exactly how I would do it myself. Basically I'm saying their statistical performance in H.S. or college will not have a 100% direct correlation to their performance in professional baseball.

I was feeling ok when I thought that this might be window dressing that I could simply ignore. However, if there is any correlation between an area that Markus clearly doesn't understand, and the game itself, then that's a problem.

[korme]

Markus why don't you hook it up for my birthday and release screenshots for the upcoming version of my favorite game?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Relax, this little feature is something I wanted to build into the game since version 3. And it doesn't really take much time to do at all. The stats will not mean the world, especially HS stats when compiled while playing against easy competition (there are 5 levels of competition). But they may help people who like to play without displayed ratings and just want to pick their players based on scouting reports and college/HS stats.

Ok. I read Craig's post before I read this one. (Yeah, I know I was going backwards. ) This makes me feel a little better. So, if we used basic/limited ratings, we can just ignore the HS/college stats I reckon.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I was feeling ok when I thought that this might be window dressing that I could simply ignore. However, if there is any correlation between an area that Markus clearly doesn't understand, and the game itself, then that's a problem.

My bet is, for all intents and purposes, you could ignore even if you were playing with ratings "off". My understanding is their correlation to performance in professional baseball will be the same as in RL - very little.

-Craig

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Ok. I read Craig's post before I read this one. (Yeah, I know I was going backwards. ) This makes me feel a little better. So, if we used basic/limited ratings, we can just ignore the HS/college stats I reckon.

I never realized some people would not play on basic/limited ratings. I wonder why?

[Huckleberry]

I'm a sucker for baseball games. I'm looking forward to the release, Markus. And I've already pre-ordered DMB Version 9. Good luck with the finishing touches.

[dawgfan]

On the issue of stats for H.S./College performence for draft prospects:

I wouldn't be too concerned about Marcus' knowledge of these levels of baseball; if the stats are intended to give you slightly more info than you'd get off just the scouting report, but not be something that should be completely relied upon (much like the H.S. stats in TCY) then I think this is a nice addition. I'm assuming Marcus has some algorithm in mind to translate the actual playing ability of the prospect into statistical results, with modifiers in place to make sure the information isn't a direct predictor of future success (i.e. some guys with lesser stats could end up being sleepers, guys with monster stats could bust). By him asking for what constitutes average and great statistical performances at those levels, it sounds like he just wants a framework to figure out how what numbers his algorithm should produce, i.e. what the top performances should look like.

While obviously stats from those levels are less likely to predict future success, there is something valuable there; the A's and Billy Beane have been using college stats for some time now as part of their evaluation process. Obviously you have to make adjustments for players in less competitive conferences, but there is something of value to be gained there.

As a feature of the game that might enhance scouting, I think it's a good idea. People that are hard-core fans of H.S. and College baseball might frown at the stats the game generates and grumble about it, but I think so long as Marcus does a good job of making sure these stats don't reveal too much about the true ability level of the prospect, it will add to the game.

[Huckleberry]

dawgfan -

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but part of the Athletics' work with stats is that they have found that college stats are much better predictors than high school stats, is it not?

[dawgfan]

Yeah - I guess I didn't make that clarification in my post. I would hope that there would be a large difference in how accurate the stats would be between the H.S. players and the college players.

I would think that the H.S. stats should really be mostly window dressing, i.e. have enough variability in how accurate they are as to be mostly worthless, while the college stats should have some value, though not quite as much as low-level minor league performance.

[CentralMassHokie]

Leaving aside the fact of Marcus knowing how much HS/College stats correlate to major league performance, this is exactly the type of stuff I want to see in a baseball game.

A limited set of ratings (like the 5 tools that scouts use) combined with college/HS stats would make this game as close to being a GM as possible.

When looking at these players, you won't pay attention to BA or RBIs, you'll pay attention to walk rate, OBP, etc. Those are the things that tend to correlate very well with major league performance.

Perfect instance: you're looking for a leadoff hitter who plays the OF. Your scout finds 2 guys who he rates something like (on a scale from 20 to 80):

Hit: 50
Power: 30
Run: 70
Field: 70
Throw 60

They're both college seniors batting somewhere around .450. One has an OBP of ~.500, the other's is pretty much his BA.

That's where these stats will come in handy. Plus, it'll give you a chance to play Billy Beane and weigh college stats more than scouting opinion, or play Dan Evans and look solely at the scout's opinion.

When I heard Total Pro Baseball was going to have something similar, I immediately wrote Shaun and said I would buy his game the moment it came out.

Now I might have to upgrade OOTP5->OOTP6, as well. Kudos, Marcus (just do it right! )

[Vince]

The first thing I thought of when I read that HS/College stats would be implemented (aside from the "Wow, he doesn't know anything about it and is putting it in a month before release?") was that I hoped there would be higher correlation with certain statistics (OBP/Walk Rate) than others (BA/Power). Good point, CentralMassHokie.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Why?

I'd like it to be better, but I can live without perfection in the draft.

As for high school or college stats, I'm not really concerned unless they actually do predict major league performance to a large degree. Most stats are impossible to gauge without a whole lot of context (and even that is probably imposible at the HS level). I'm not sure OOTP is ready for that much "context," so having them as eye candy that gives a little hint is fine with me.

Am I missing something?

The thing I would like to see most improved is the draft combined with players moving through the minors. Of course, I'm sure I'm in the minority in this respect, as I take the day off from work to follow the first day of the MLB draft on the internet......

I'm not quite sure what the right balance between fun & work is for the game with regards to drafting. I do know that the way the draft is now is not really fun or interesting at all.

I'd really much rather see at least 5 levels of minors and more players who have huge ceilings who just never get anywhere near their projections as they move to wooden bat professional leagues.

One thing I've never seen mentioned is this. Why not build an academy aspect into the game. You pour x millions into your international academies and based on how much you spend you have 17-18 year old kids show up in your minors in rookie ball. They would (to steal a term) boom/bust or their ages would inflate during some offseason....

[CentralMassHokie]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I'm not quite sure what the right balance between fun & work is for the game with regards to drafting. I do know that the way the draft is now is not really fun or interesting at all.

I'd really much rather see at least 5 levels of minors and more players who have huge ceilings who just never get anywhere near their projections as they move to wooden bat professional leagues.

The way minor leaguers are handled in OOTP is one of my major gripes with the game.

First, you don't know enough about the players to draft anything more than "take the highest power guy", "take the highest K guy", etc. As it stands today, the draft is the worst part of the game.

Secondly, with only 3 levels of minor leagues, you have to limit the number of players you draft. Since the baseball draft is much more of a crapshoot than in any other profession, you don't get enough chances to offset the times that guys don't develop. It's simply draft and pray.

Guys don't seem to develop in according to the way they do in real life. You end up seeing pitchers out of college who are still gaining experience in AAA at 25-26. Part of the problem is that age doesn't seem to have any influence on development other than as a starting point. The other portion of the problem is that there's no way for guys to move around the minors. With no option years, no Rule 5 draft, and no minor league free agency, potentially talented guys get stuck behind other potentially talented guys and simply don't develop.

I'm not sure how to get around this other than having more levels of minor league ball, expanding the draft, a Rule 5 draft, a 40 man roster, and options. Options are a must.

There's just not enough player movement for OOTP to be a fun GM game. It's great from a macroscopic level - I draft some guys, put them in the minors, shift guys around, rinse, repeat. There's very little reason to scout other teams other than the top prospects.

Honestly, what I want out of a baseball sim (and this is probably where I differ from a lot of people) is to be a GM. I want to hire a manager who'll set the lineups and rotations. If he plays smallball after I built a team based around the longball, I want to fire him (with the potenial drop in chemistry/happiness/X Factor of your choice).

I want to spend my time scouring the low minors for players who I can take a flyer on in the Rule 5 draft.

I want to pick up a player who slipped through waivers because his team had a string of injuries and burned his option years.

If there was a game that did that stuff in a fun way, I'd probably lose my job.

[MizzouRah]

Gimme some screenies baby!


Todd

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

The way minor leaguers are handled in OOTP is one of my major gripes with the game.

Secondly, with only 3 levels of minor leagues, you have to limit the number of players you draft. Since the baseball draft is much more of a crapshoot than in any other profession, you don't get enough chances to offset the times that guys don't develop. It's simply draft and pray.

Part of the problem is that age doesn't seem to have any influence on development other than as a starting point. The other portion of the problem is that there's no way for guys to move around the minors. With no option years, no Rule 5 draft, and no minor league free agency, potentially talented guys get stuck behind other potentially talented guys and simply don't develop.

I'll talk to Markus about the player development issue regarding age as a start point. Oh, and OOTP5 may be the last iteration where 40-man rosters, rule 5 draft, free agent compensation, etc., aren't part of the equation .

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

rule 5 draft

I know awhile ago, I had posted on the OOTP boards inquiring about this Rule V draft...since I'm pretty much clueless as to what it is. Someone had posted a link for me to follow...but it was a bit too wordy for me - probably a bit too detailed in what it encompasses. Anyone care to break it down in layman's terms? That is, if it is possible.

[Carligula]

Originally Posted by hukarez

I know awhile ago, I had posted on the OOTP boards inquiring about this Rule V draft...since I'm pretty much clueless as to what it is. Someone had posted a link for me to follow...but it was a bit too wordy for me - probably a bit too detailed in what it encompasses. Anyone care to break it down in layman's terms? That is, if it is possible.

Basically, every December there is a draft in which teams, picking in the next season's draft order (reverse order of standings), can select players from other organizations who have 3 seasons of minor-league experience and are not on the 40-man roster. The selecting team has to keep that player on its major-league roster (or major-league disabled list) for the entire following season, or else offer the player back to his original club. Once he's spent a full year on the major-league roster, they can treat him like any other player - send him back to the minors if he has options, etc.

George Bell (if you remember him from the '80s) is probably the best player to come out of Rule 5, but most teams don't use it much any more. Jose Guillen is one of the best examples of a hot prospect whose career was really messed up by being forced to play in the majors before he was quite ready... that's basically it.

[Marmel]

Besides the fact that it has good multiplayer capabilities, OOTP is total crap.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Besides the fact that it has good multiplayer capabilities, OOTP is total crap.

I don't know about crap, but I think Marmel is on the right track here. Don't get me wrong; I love what Markus has done with the series.

But, really, what would it take to get someone with an innate understanding of the game and simulating a basic physics model and incorproating all of the different facets of modern baseball to step in here? I see a diamond opportunity. I think after six versions, it's clear that there are limitations for Markus and his sense with the game. He didn't grow up with it. It would be like me being the head developer of a soccer or rugby sim.

I am definitely keeping an eye on Shaun Sullivan's new game. That might eb the next best hope for a truly intuitive baseball experience.

Chief Rum

[Cecil Fielder]

besides the fact that he is a good commish, Marmel is total crap.

Hey he even runs a team called the Crap.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't know about crap, but I think Marmel is on the right track here. Don't get me wrong; I love what Markus has done with the series.

But, really, what would it take to get someone with an innate understanding of the game and simulating a basic physics model and incorproating all of the different facets of modern baseball to step in here? I see a diamond opportunity. I think after six versions, it's clear that there are limitations for Markus and his sense with the game. He didn't grow up with it. It would be like me being the head developer of a soccer or rugby sim.
.

Chief Rum

I think that's a ridiculous statement to make, especially the idea that him not growing up with it somehow limits his understanding of the game. Im Indian, and I didn't really get to watch baseball with any regularity until I was 17- and I feel confident I know more about the sport than any average Joe American. Without delving further into the national identity bits, I thinks the physics modelling is interesting, but probably more suited to a graphical- for a text-based game, modelling the statistical probabilities to produce results in line with sabremetric research is pretty cutting edge. I don't want a DMB, where the fun aspect goes to hell- I want a game that can simulate baseball and an intruging environment, and I think that OOTP is on the right path to that.

[Chief Rum]

It's taken six versions to get some things into the game that should have been in right away. Full minor league stats took five versions. We still don't have spring training or a Rule V draft or waivers. There remains no rhyme nor reason for the talent bumps and drops in the game, and the finances still get screwy (try watching merchandising revenue some time). Markus still has an engine in place that determines outs and then determines the type of out, rather than running a play and seeing what happens (with an out occuring as it occurs naturally). I'm sure there's ton of other stuff people can tell you. SkyDog's quest for the properly utilized fifth starter logic is infamous around here, for instance.

OOTP does a lot of nice things, and I applaud what Markus has done, especially given his initial limitations (top computer programmer, yes, but not initially too savvy with baseball itself). He has given me what amounts to full days of enjoyment (end-to-end) via both single player and multiplayer experience, especially the latter.

But there are just times when I see how OOTP does stuff and it makes me think that someone with a more intuitive initial knowledge of the sport would have had certain things in palce from the very beginning.

Feel free to disagree, but I have been with OOTP since OOTP2, so I am pretty familiar with what the man has put out, and I have been a baseball fan all my life.

CR

[cincyreds]

I have enjoyed OOTP, escpecially the last version.

BUT!

I think the draft needs to be improved a bunch. I think there just isn't enough talent in the draft. I have to lower the draft to 5 rds because after that there just isn't enough talent that is even worth drafting.

I hope Markus really blows us away with his game this year, but right now I am a bit hesitant about it.

[The_herd]

One of the big problems I see with player development in the minors is I never feel like have any control over his progression through the system. All I do is wait until I see the arrows pointing to the next level and move him up accordingly. All my experiences in moving players before the scouts recommend it have ended pretty badly. I would like to see this portion of the game out of the mostly in my hands, with maybe the opinion of the scout thrown in. The thing with it now is the scouts seem to always know the perfect time to call a guy up.

It also aggravates me to see players with good hitting ability batting .125 with 1HR and 5RBI's or solid pitching prospects with an ERA over 6.00 after their 1st 20 or so games at a new level. Good players are going to play better than that, even at a new level in minors.

Another thing is I never see guys with high contact ratings developed anywhere near as much as the guys with high power ratings. I usually see guys arrive at A ball with 0 or 1 in contact, while good power guys can come out of the draft at a 5 or 6.

[MizzouRah]

You point is well taken CR, but until Shawn shows me a fun game, what else is there?

I'm honestly excited about MVP, ASB, and ESPN baseball on the consoles this year. Ootp has taken many, many hours of my time, but I'm not pumped this year for some reason. Maybe it's because I'm slowly losing interest in baseball, maybe it's becuase I have two other sports sims occupying my time (FOF, FBCB)... or maybe it's because the lid is closed tight on ootp6?? Whatever the factor(s), I think ootp6 has to have some innovation this year or it might not be a purchase for me. (Did I say that? )

Markus has done one hell of a job with the series though and I'm really wondering what he has in store for v6. Also, I'm hoping Shawn can "woo" me with his sim.


Todd

[Lucky Jim]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. The draft/minors are probably the most frustrating parts of any text sim I play regularly. Prospects simply aren't treated the way prospects are treated in the real world. It's one of those things where I have to turn off logic and use "game logic." It bothers me knowing that my scout is right to tell me to move a guy up from double A who's hitting .240 when there are guys hitting .338 with 15 bombs and monster OPS numbers. Stats should matter more, and they should be the key indicator on moving guys up. And there needs to be more of a boom/bust variable. Something like the "volatility" rating from FOF is desperately in need. It sounds like Markus understands the spirit of this with what I've heard about about skill vs. tool prospects for the new game, but I'll be waiting and seeing. Really I just never get immersed in OOTP. If the game handled "news" more like CM it would be a vastly improved experience. I never go to the newspaper screen. Just some thoughts

[Alan T]

I still long for the Rule V draft, 40 man rosters, Waiver wires, waiver trading, compensational picks, etc... I also long for the engine to be a bit more realistic to real life baseball, so you don't have to learn a brand new game so to speak to find the secret to success.

With that said, I can't think of any game I have played more than OOTP over the last 5? years (however long its been)..