Russians Supporting Iraq

Tarkus · 03-23-2003, 06:45 PM

Fox News is reporting the US has filed a formal complaint with Russia because Russian arms contractors are violating UN sanctions by selling Iraq equipment on the banned list. There apparently also are Russians in Iraq showing them how to use the equipment. Guess this explains to some degree why Russia didn't want us going in. Also shows what a wonderful ally they are.

Tarkus

MrBug708 · 03-23-2003, 06:47 PM

Apparently the bed is big enough for the French, Russians, and Iraqi's

JonInMiddleGA · 03-23-2003, 07:02 PM

Not a real shocker.

mrskippy · 03-23-2003, 07:11 PM

But this would put Russia in direct violation of UN Resolutions themselves. It would put them in position of aiding the enemy and could even be considered an act of war.

Cringer · 03-23-2003, 07:12 PM

Ya, sure sucks. Good thing we have never sold/given any weapons to guys like Saddam, Bin Laden or any other of a hundred countries. It would be a terrible thing if American companies ever sold weapons or any other key items that would help one of our enemies, say Hitler or somebody like that. AND, AND i say, it would be HORRIBLE for anyone to go against the wishes of the U.N., good thing the U.S. and our allies England,Spain, Australia,etc....and although not in this war Isreal, would never go against the U.N.

Tarkus · 03-23-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cringer
Ya, sure sucks. Good thing we have never sold/given any weapons to guys like Saddam, Bin Laden or any other of a hundred countries. It would be a terrible thing if American companies ever sold weapons or any other key items that would help one of our enemies, say Hitler or somebody like that. AND, AND i say, it would be HORRIBLE for anyone to go against the wishes of the U.N., good thing the U.S. and our allies England,Spain, Australia,etc....and although not in this war Isreal, would never go against the U.N.

Yup, I can't even count the number of times the US as a member of the UN Security Council has violated the organizations sanctions and aided our allies enemies. Better give back my advanced mathematics degree.,

Tarkus

MrBug708 · 03-23-2003, 07:17 PM

The US has helped revolutionary groups overthrow regimes. Maybe too much support caused another regime to come out of the ashes of the former...

clintl · 03-23-2003, 07:48 PM

The report I heard said the US has known about it for a long time, too (like well over a year), and has chosen not to make it public until now.

Tarkus · 03-23-2003, 08:48 PM

I think seeing the Russians in Iraq helping the Iraqis put them over the edge.

Tarkus

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 09:32 PM

This is similar to what the French have likely been doing as well. Back in 1991 a large part of the 'huge' Iraqi army was using French equipment. They are the ones who hooked Saddam up with his nuclear facility back in the 80s, which Israel destroyed. Russia and France have a long history of buddying up to Saddam.

I don't think the Germans do, though, which makes me wonder what their motivation has been.

tucker342 · 03-23-2003, 09:36 PM

Don't forget who we gave money and weapons to back in the 80s, Osama Fuckin Bin Laden, the biggest dick head of them all. Ya what Russia is doing pisses me off, but we've done shit just as bad, if not worse.

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 09:43 PM

I don't know that we were giving money directly to Osama bin Laden, but rather supporting the mujahideen (sp) in general (of which he was a part of). At least that is my understanding of that situation.

Back in the 1980s the US government supported Iraq against Iran, as well. In my mind, these are both examples of poor foreign relations that resulted in more work for us later on. We have lost more lives, money, and resources due to those than we would have likely lost if Iran had beaten Iraq and if the Soviet Union had managed to keep control of Afghanistan.

Fritz · 03-23-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
It would put them in position of aiding the enemy and could even be considered an act of war.

please clarify

Qwikshot · 03-23-2003, 10:24 PM

The U.S. gave arms to the Germans and Allies during World War I and I believe even into World War 2.

It's called capitalism, as far as I know, Russia isn't part of the ally coalition nor they are part of any Iraq coalition, they are profiting from the war.

All the more reason to hit Iraq hard and quick.

Tekneek · 03-23-2003, 10:49 PM

Qwikshot - The problem comes from them possibly violating UN resolutions by doing so. If Russia did violate some, it certainly takes some shine off of their indignation about the actions of the US.

Craptacular · 03-23-2003, 11:56 PM

Russia and France don't want this war because their companies have agreed to huge contracts with Iraq to extract oil. If Saddam is ousted, their agreements will be worth sqaut. And I thought we were fighting this war because of oil.

mrskippy · 03-24-2003, 12:01 AM

Yeah Saddam was an ally against the Iranians. It is the old "our enemy is your enemy, so therefore ... " concept.

But I think that if the Russians are supporting Iraq ... nuke Moscow. Oh wait ... they have nukes to. On the second thought.

Qwikshot · 03-24-2003, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekneek
Qwikshot - The problem comes from them possibly violating UN resolutions by doing so. If Russia did violate some, it certainly takes some shine off of their indignation about the actions of the US.

Understood but it doesn't make it any more surprising...

RoastDuck · 03-24-2003, 01:38 AM

A distinction should be drawn between a Russian company illegally supplying Iraq and wholesale Russian support for the Iraqi regime. It is perfectly possible that a company can export goods without the knowledge of their government. I am not saying the Putin government did not know about the jamming devices, merely suggesting it is a possibility. This goes on all the time.

A similar situation seems to have been revealed when Iraqi gas masks were found yesterday.

Where were they made? Germany.

Who supplied them? It seems an invoice in one of the boxes containing the masks points to a UK company – just 18 months ago.

There are rogue companies around the world who will do anything for a dollar.

03-23-2003, 07:02 PM	#3
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Not a real shocker. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-23-2003, 07:12 PM	#5
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Ya, sure sucks. Good thing we have never sold/given any weapons to guys like Saddam, Bin Laden or any other of a hundred countries. It would be a terrible thing if American companies ever sold weapons or any other key items that would help one of our enemies, say Hitler or somebody like that. AND, AND i say, it would be HORRIBLE for anyone to go against the wishes of the U.N., good thing the U.S. and our allies England,Spain, Australia,etc....and although not in this war Isreal, would never go against the U.N. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

03-23-2003, 08:48 PM	#9
Tarkus High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001	I think seeing the Russians in Iraq helping the Iraqis put them over the edge. Tarkus __________________ Winning may not be everything, but losing isn't anything.

03-23-2003, 10:24 PM	#14
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	The U.S. gave arms to the Germans and Allies during World War I and I believe even into World War 2. It's called capitalism, as far as I know, Russia isn't part of the ally coalition nor they are part of any Iraq coalition, they are profiting from the war. All the more reason to hit Iraq hard and quick. __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

03-23-2003, 06:47 PM	#2
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Apparently the bed is big enough for the French, Russians, and Iraqi's

03-23-2003, 07:11 PM	#4
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	But this would put Russia in direct violation of UN Resolutions themselves. It would put them in position of aiding the enemy and could even be considered an act of war.

03-23-2003, 07:17 PM	#7
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	The US has helped revolutionary groups overthrow regimes. Maybe too much support caused another regime to come out of the ashes of the former...

03-23-2003, 07:48 PM	#8
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	The report I heard said the US has known about it for a long time, too (like well over a year), and has chosen not to make it public until now.

03-23-2003, 09:32 PM	#10
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	This is similar to what the French have likely been doing as well. Back in 1991 a large part of the 'huge' Iraqi army was using French equipment. They are the ones who hooked Saddam up with his nuclear facility back in the 80s, which Israel destroyed. Russia and France have a long history of buddying up to Saddam. I don't think the Germans do, though, which makes me wonder what their motivation has been.

03-23-2003, 09:36 PM	#11
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	Don't forget who we gave money and weapons to back in the 80s, Osama Fuckin Bin Laden, the biggest dick head of them all. Ya what Russia is doing pisses me off, but we've done shit just as bad, if not worse.

03-23-2003, 09:43 PM	#12
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	I don't know that we were giving money directly to Osama bin Laden, but rather supporting the mujahideen (sp) in general (of which he was a part of). At least that is my understanding of that situation. Back in the 1980s the US government supported Iraq against Iran, as well. In my mind, these are both examples of poor foreign relations that resulted in more work for us later on. We have lost more lives, money, and resources due to those than we would have likely lost if Iran had beaten Iraq and if the Soviet Union had managed to keep control of Afghanistan.

03-23-2003, 10:49 PM	#15
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Qwikshot - The problem comes from them possibly violating UN resolutions by doing so. If Russia did violate some, it certainly takes some shine off of their indignation about the actions of the US.

03-23-2003, 11:56 PM	#16
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	Russia and France don't want this war because their companies have agreed to huge contracts with Iraq to extract oil. If Saddam is ousted, their agreements will be worth sqaut. And I thought we were fighting this war because of oil.

03-24-2003, 12:01 AM	#17
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Yeah Saddam was an ally against the Iranians. It is the old "our enemy is your enemy, so therefore ... " concept. But I think that if the Russians are supporting Iraq ... nuke Moscow. Oh wait ... they have nukes to. On the second thought.

03-24-2003, 01:38 AM	#19
RoastDuck Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000	A distinction should be drawn between a Russian company illegally supplying Iraq and wholesale Russian support for the Iraqi regime. It is perfectly possible that a company can export goods without the knowledge of their government. I am not saying the Putin government did not know about the jamming devices, merely suggesting it is a possibility. This goes on all the time. A similar situation seems to have been revealed when Iraqi gas masks were found yesterday. Where were they made? Germany. Who supplied them? It seems an invoice in one of the boxes containing the masks points to a UK company – just 18 months ago. There are rogue companies around the world who will do anything for a dollar.

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