2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

James Young must be the best practice player on the planet to explain the positive buzz he gets from coaches despite never (from what I've seen) translating that to on-court performances.

I really thought Smart was a great pick for the Celtics, but unless he's 2x better this season, I think his NBA ceiling is probably a 3 & D guy rather than a ballhandler.

Or we're just trying to give him some semblance of trade value. The Celtics are much classier and better run when it comes to talking about guy in the media than, for example, the Red Sox. The only player I can really remember getting publicly criticized is Jared Sullinger, and that was followed by a summer of positive quotes and leaked stories. (Even though I'm pretty certain we've been looking to trade him for the right deal for about 2 years now.) Even most of the Rondo stuff was kept in-house, and there was clearly a loooooot of things behind the scenes that could've been used to assassinate his character.

I still like the Smart pick. Would've liked Julius Randle just as much, and was starting to get seduced by Exum's mystery potential, but didn't like the other rumored guys (Gordon, Vonleh), and I'm still not buying in on Elfrid Payton. I just like him as an off ball guard (a bigger, stronger Avery Bradley), which is fine if we have IT and Rozier, plus some other guys who can handle well for their positions in Evan Turner and a couple of the bigs. NBA is trending that way where guys who can do almost everything average or above are more valuable than guys who have a couple skills and some huge holes that smart teams can exploit. I still think Smart can be a max or near-max player if he can marginally upgrade finishing at the rim, and running the P&R (or even being the pick guy in the P&R), but it'll be as a perimeter version of Draymond Green rather than a traditional ball-dominant PG. I also hope he cuts down on the flopping in his game, but I think he's always going to be good for one bad one every few games.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by nol

Over/Unders by conference:

East
-----
Cavaliers 56.5
Bulls 49.5
Hawks 49.5
Heat 45.5
Raptors 45.5
Wizards 45.5
Bucks 43.5
Celtics 42.5
Pacers 42.5
Pistons 33.5
Hornets 32.5
Magic 32.5
Knicks 31.5
Nets 28.5
76ers 21.5

West
-----
Warriors 60.5
Spurs 58.5
Thunder 57.5
Clippers 56.5
Rockets 54.5
Grizzlies 50.5
Pelicans 47.5
Jazz 40.5
Mavericks 38.5
Suns 36.5
Kings 30.5
Lakers 29.5
Blazers 26.5
Nuggets 26.5
Wolves 25.5

Hmm, at first glance at Id have to think the wolves should be better than the worst team in the West. They actually have a nice mix of vets to help these youngers progress faster. Certainly not a 76ers style rebuild.

[Groundhog]

I expect the Wolves to be better than the Nuggets and probably Lakers. Blazers and Kings should be better, but I wouldn't be shocked to see either (or both) of them go down in flames.

Pistons and Pacers could surprise in the East.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Hmm, at first glance at Id have to think the wolves should be better than the worst team in the West. They actually have a nice mix of vets to help these youngers progress faster. Certainly not a 76ers style rebuild.

That could very well be true, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will win more than 25 games. The 76ers would be the team trying to avoid a Timberwolves-style rebuild, as that would entail missing the playoffs this season and for the next seven seasons after that to equal Minnesota's current stretch of futility.

[nol]

It's probably unsurprising enough to even be considered news, but Thabo Sefolosha was ruled not guilty on all charges today. That should open the door for a hefty lawsuit against the NYPD.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

It's probably unsurprising enough to even be considered news, but Thabo Sefolosha was ruled not guilty on all charges today. That should open the door for a hefty lawsuit against the NYPD.

That's not always so easy to call. I'm not familiar enough with the circumstances except to note that Sefalosha was hurt in the incident and he ended up not guilty. But I wouldn't assume a lawsuit is coming, since if the circumstances called for a strong police response (that was a reasonable call for police to make), you won't get paid if you're hurt during that, I don't think. If the police took extra, irresponsible actions that led directly to Sefalosha getting hurt, then maybe there is a lawsuit.

So, yeah, it opens the door, depending on the circumstances, but I don't know that that's a certainty (and not saying you are saying that either).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by nol

That should open the door for a hefty lawsuit against the NYPD.

In today's society I'm sure it will.

And Thabo is still a f'n moron for putting himself in that situation in the first place, no matter what a jury says.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's not always so easy to call. I'm not familiar enough with the circumstances except to note that Sefalosha was hurt in the incident and he ended up not guilty. But I wouldn't assume a lawsuit is coming, since if the circumstances called for a strong police response (that was a reasonable call for police to make), you won't get paid if you're hurt during that, I don't think. If the police took extra, irresponsible actions that led directly to Sefalosha getting hurt, then maybe there is a lawsuit.

There's allegedly security footage and cell phone video showing the officers bypassing Antic and other white people to target Sefolosha, there's documents from the arresting officers alleging that Antic was punching and assaulting the officers which put their side of the story even further into question, and most damningly it sounds like the police/aDA were arguing that Sefolosha's leg was already broken (despite playing in a game that night and spending time at the nightclub after) so they're not responsible for it.

I don't know if Sefolosha wants to keep going and he doesn't need the money, but it seems like a pretty easy win if he does. And if it was me I definitely would, not for the money, but to see those officers at least suspended and punished a little bit since it sounds like they were cleared by IA and kept on active duty.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's allegedly security footage and cell phone video showing the officers bypassing Antic and other white people to target Sefolosha, there's documents from the arresting officers alleging that Antic was punching and assaulting the officers which put their side of the story even further into question, and most damningly it sounds like the police/aDA were arguing that Sefolosha's leg was already broken (despite playing in a game that night and spending time at the nightclub after) so they're not responsible for it.

I don't know if Sefolosha wants to keep going and he doesn't need the money, but it seems like a pretty easy win if he does. And if it was me I definitely would, not for the money, but to see those officers at least suspended and punished a little bit since it sounds like they were cleared by IA and kept on active duty.

Yeah, if all that is true, then I could definitely see a lawsuit there.

[Logan]

Not a good few days for the NYPD. Yesterday a video was released of two cops holding down a guy arrested for theft, as the guy who he stole from (an EMS worker) was beating him.

[Atocep]

Nate Silver released 538's NBA player projection system for everyone to play with. Type a player's name in and you see their career projections and top 10 comps.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/

[Groundhog]

If Thabo's version of events is correct, I hope he takes them to the cleaners.

Porzingis looking good vs the Wizards.

[nol]

Lamar Odom was found unconscious and it looks like there's a real chance he might not make it. Not much to do but hope he pulls through, but damn, this guy has had some demons.

[stevew]

What is herbal viagara. Asking for a friend that wouldn't take 10.

Horny Goat Weed?

[stevew]

Dola

Checked out the whores he was partying with. Definitely meh.

Ryder Cherry is the lover of the month tho, I guess

[Suicane75]

Ryder Cherry, you say? Was Butternut Squash busy?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dola

Checked out the whores he was partying with. Definitely meh.

Ryder Cherry is the lover of the month tho, I guess

I'm probably going to hell on an express elevator for the number of jokes I've made about that name already so I might as well throw this little nugget in too.

It was the brothel owner's director of communications that placed the 911 call. His name is Richard Hunter.

That's right ladies & gentlemen, not only did Ryder Cherry find Odom but Dick Hunter called the ambulance.

edit to add: And just to lend evidence to the age old debate about nature vs nurture (or in this case maybe both), it was actually my son who wondered (after catching the "herbal viagra" part of the story) "Did he experience an erection lasting more than four hours so they called 911?"

[stevew]

The '99 draft was pretty strong. Only total flop in the top 10 was Johnathan Bender but he was hurt.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

What is herbal viagara. Asking for a friend that wouldn't take 10.

Horny Goat Weed?

I'm guessing the 'herbal viagara' was disposed of before or just after calling the paramedics....

[stevew]

6'10" people can't be airlifted? Please explain, is it unsafe to bend his legs to fit him on a helicopter?

[Suicane75]

Maybe the massive boner made it impossible to get him in the helicopter.

[nol]

Thompson finally signed a deal. 5 years $82 million. Rich Paul continues to work his magic.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

Thompson finally signed a deal. 5 years $82 million. Lebron continues to get whatever he wants.

.

[albionmoonlight]

It's an overpay, but the Cavs are in as much of a championship-or-bust mode as any team I can remember. It makes sense for them to overpay.

[stevew]

What does Mosgov get now? 3/60 with a 4th year non guaranteed? He's a better Center than Tristan

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

What does Mosgov get now? 3/60 with a 4th year non guaranteed? He's a better Center than Tristan

He's also far more important to the Cavs than Tristan. I think $20 mil per is close to what he ends up getting.

[Neon_Chaos]

DeMarcus Cousins on Twitter: "How much??? 😳"

[stevew]

Can't argue with Boogie.

[JonInMiddleGA]

AmeriLeague founder tells operations manager his persona fake, Outside the Lines

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's an overpay, but the Cavs are in as much of a championship-or-bust mode as any team I can remember. It makes sense for them to overpay.

They're getting absolutely killed by the luxury tax they're in, but I guess Gilbert can just dig into the money he made off subprime mortgages. I wonder if he'll deny that he ever tried to get TT to sign for less too.

Originally Posted by stevew

Can't argue with Boogie.

Let's see if I can embed vines.

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

.

LeBron negotiated Eric Bledsoe's contract too? That's two straight years free agency's longest hold-out got a higher contract than the initial offer despite the fact that the market should have dried up, all without having to miss any games.

[stevew]

Rip flip saunders

[JonInMiddleGA]

Timberwolves say head coach Flip Saunders has died at 60 | FOX Sports

[nol]

It was just a day or two ago that the team announced Flip wouldn't be coaching this season. Hopefully it was something that had just been under wraps as opposed to the cancer progressing so rapidly that he wasn't able to say his goodbyes.

edit: this tribute from Stephon Marbury, of all people, floored me.

My heart and all of my love goes out to Flip Saunders Family as your leader leaves this earth in the flesh. His spirit lives in the present as we speak. In 1996 Flip became a father figure and my first #NBA coach. Wow how fast time blows by. Our conversations were so meaningful in ways that helped me understand the game of life by explaining the game of basketball. Your kind soul and loving ways helped me understand how to play the most important position in the sport of basketball. You gave me not only the chance to perform at a high level but a chance to communicate my thoughts on the game. You taught me how to play the pick and roll but you also taught me how to pick up and roll with the good and bad in the life. As a rookie we had so many conversations in such a short time period. You said "The point guard has to be the extension to the coach" These words lived inside of me as I've had my share of ups and downs with coaches. I guess when I left you I went on a journey to end up with a similar coach 7,000 miles away. I thank you for giving me my foundation in how to play the professional way. I thank you for giving me unconditional love as if I was your son when I was so young. It was so needed as KG and I needed all of it to get where we are now. What an impact you've had on so many humans on earth. What a father you've been to your children as I can remember Ryan aka RyeKnow when he was a little boy. We will miss you as a piece of your children's hearts have been taken but we will celebrate you forever. Thank God that love is the most powerful thing to give and receive. The love from all will be shared to help the healing process from the pain of your flesh not being present. I know you will RIP because you did all of what you did on earth in your lifeline. I say #FlipForever as we all grow from your teachings and messages. I LOVE YOU and I'll miss you until we meet again. #LoveisLove P.S As for your amazing Wife Debbie and girls Mindy, Rachel, and Kimberly thank you for sharing your dad with all the people who's lives your dad touched. I can feel your pain because I know your love for your dad. I pray for peace in your heart.

A photo posted by Stephon X. Marbury (@starburymarbury) on Oct 25, 2015 at 3:39pm PDT

[Chief Rum]

Yeah this is a real bummer. RIP Flip

[stevew]

Either they were seriously underplaying the extent of his illness or he took a dramatically worse turn. He's not very old

[nol]

Chris Paul is quietly having the best season of his career. Last night's game was against bad opposition (I think the 3rd time I've gone to see New Orleans only for Anthony Davis to be injured) but it was maybe the most dominant point guard performance I've ever seen in person. It's a cliche to say that someone 'put on a clinic,' but that really was a game you'd want to show to someone who was trying to play point guard at any level. 20 points, 20 assists, 0 turnovers, 5 rebounds, 3 steals. If he made a single pass that entire game that wasn't on time and on target, I don't remember seeing it.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Using the old def/offense theory you would have to consider Rudy Gobert a top 9 player in the NBA. Not happening...

Right now, Gobert is 17th in the league in box plus-minus and 16th in VORP. The Jazz are 15-10 even though their three next-best players (Hill, Hayward, and Favors) have missed a combined 35 games so far. Gobert is averaging 15, 13 and 3.5 blocks per game on 74% shooting over his last 10.

He'd be a clear All-Star starter in the East but is going to have a tough time getting in over Leonard, Durant, Green, Cousins, Davis, Gasol, and Griffin. Of course, he's younger than all of them except Davis and is certainly still on his way to reaching that level, as wrong as it must have sounded a couple years ago.

[miami_fan]

The T-Wolves week from hell lead me to revisit the 2015 draft. I fully acknowledge that it is still early but is there a chance that this draft is worse than the 2013 draft which is among the worst ever?

2013
1. Cleveland: Anthony Bennett, F, UNLV
2. Orlando: Victor Oladipo, G, Indiana
3. Washington: Otto Porter, F, Georgetown
4. Charlotte: Cody Zeller, F, Indiana
5. Phoenix: Alex Len, C, Maryland
6. Philadelphia (from New Orleans): Nerlens Noel, C, Kentucky
7. Sacramento: Ben McLemore, G, Kansas
8. Detroit: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, G, Georgia
9. Utah (from Minnesota): Trey Burke, G, Michigan
10. Portland: C.J. McCollum, G, Lehigh
11. Philadelphia: Michael Carter-Williams, G, Syracuse
12. Oklahoma City (from Toronto via Houston): Steven Adams, C, Pittsburgh
13. Boston (from Dallas): Kelly Olynyk, C, Gonzaga
14. Minnesota (from Utah): Shabazz Muhammad, F, UCLA
15. Milwaukee: Giannis Adetokunbo, F, Greece
16. Atlanta (from Dallas via Boston): Lucas Nogueira, C, Brazil
17. Atlanta: Dennis Schroeder, G, Germany
18. Dallas (from Atlanta via Houston, Brooklyn): Shane Larkin, G, Miami
19. Cleveland (from Los Angeles Lakers): Sergey Karasev, F, Russia
20. Chicago: Tony Snell,G, New Mexico
21. Minnesota (from Utah via Golden State, Brooklyn): Gorgui Dieng, C, Louisville
22. Brooklyn: Mason Plumlee, C, Duke
23. Indiana: Solomon Hill, F, Arizona
24. New York: Tim Hardaway Jr., G, Michigan
25. Los Angeles Clippers: Reggie Bullock, F, UNC
26. Oklahoma City, (from Golden State via Memphis, Houston, Minnesota): Andre Roberson, F, Colorado
27. Utah (from Denver): Rudy Gobert, C, France
28. San Antonio: Livio Jean-Charles, F, France
29. Phoenix (from Golden State via Oklahoma City): Archie Goodwin, G, Kentucky
30. Golden State (from Phoenix via Miami, LAL, Cleveland): Nemanja Nedovic, G, Serbia

2015

1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Karl-Anthony Towns, Kentucky
2. Los Angeles Lakers - D'Angelo Russell, Ohio State
3. Philadelphia 76ers - Jahlil Okafor, Duke
4. New York Knicks - Kristaps Porzingis, Latvia
5. Orlando Magic - Mario Hezonja, Croatia
6. Sacramento Kings - Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky
7. Denver Nuggets - Emmanuel Mudiay, Congo
8. Detroit Pistons - Stanley Johnson, Arizona
9. Charlotte Hornets - Frank Kaminsky, Wisconsin
10. Miami Heat - Justise Winslow, Duke
11. Indiana Pacers - Myles Turner, Texas
12. Utah Jazz - Trey Lyles, Kentucky
13. Phoenix Suns - Devin Booker, Kentucky
14. Oklahoma City Thunder - Cameron Payne, Murray State
15. Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.) - Kelly Oubre Jr., Kansas
16. Boston Celtics - Terry Rozier, Louisville
17. Milwaukee Bucks - Rashad Vaughn, UNLV
18. Houston Rockets - Sam Dekker, Wisconsin
19. Washington Wizards (traded to New York Knicks) - Jerian Grant, Notre Dame
20. Toronto Raptors - Delon Wright, Utah
21. Dallas Mavericks - Justin Anderson, Virginia
22. Chicago Bulls - Bobby Portis, Arkansas
23. Portland Trail Blazers (traded with Steve Blake to Brooklyn Nets for Pat Connaughton, Mason Plumlee) - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Arizona
24. Cleveland Cavaliers (traded to Minnesota Timberwolves for Cedi Osman and Rakeem Christmas) - Tyus Jones, Duke
25. Memphis Grizzlies - Jarell Martin, LSU
26. San Antonio Spurs - Nikola Milutinov, Serbia
27. Los Angeles Lakers - Larry Nance Jr., Wyoming
28. Boston Celtics - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State
29. Brooklyn Nets - Chris McCullough, Syracuse
30. Golden State Warriors - Kevon Looney, UCLA

[Groundhog]

2015 at least had (so far) a number of solid picks, but it was a better year to be picking 10-30 than 1-9...

[stevew]

2013 has a bunch of great to good players. It was just ordered super incorrectly.