2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

The Warriors just won a championship without really tanking and by adding a piece or 2 every offseason. So did the Mavs in 2011.

I have sympathy for the 76ers in valuing high draft picks and not committing money to players now for the sake of avoiding controversy. But : there is treading water until you find a Franchise player or the right trade/Free Agent. (for example what the Wolves have done the last few years, who at least tried to set themselves up for success without damaging flexibility. And yes, they tanked towards the end of the season. But they did not tank in July)
And then there is whatever the hell the 76ers have been doing. Actually this years draft does not even fit that well with the narrative, taking Okafor is not as weird i would say (especially if Embiid is really out). Still: Even if you accept that being bad to get a "superstar" is a valid strategy, you also need to actually field 10 - 12 actual NBA players at some point and the 76ers have made it a point not to even try and identify players for those spots 4-12 in the last 2 seasons. They purposely refused to add talent and here are 2 problems with this.

1) You whiff on players all the time, it´s inevitable. In the Draft but also in Free Agency. There is no guarantee, that in the offseason you want to start winning you sign 5 guys and all are good fits. More likely than not, 3 of those 5 end up not a good fit.

2) Players and Agents have taken notice of what the 76ers have been doing. They also will be understandably weary joining a perennial looser based on "but now we want to win !"


So unless you think that the "franchise players" (and all 3 + Saric essentially play only 2 positions) and a bunch of fringe players can win 40 games next year or the year after, who will want to come in 2016 or 2017 ? Especially with the Cap rising, which means more money to go around and more flexibility even for the teams that are allready good now. Why would anyone take the max with the 76ers next offseason or in 2017 when they can also get it with a playoff team ?

The Warriors were 18-21 at the trade deadline of 2012 (2 games out of the 8 seed) and went 5-22 the rest of the way by trading their leading scorer for an injured player and shutting down Curry for the rest of the season. 100 percent tanking. That enabled them to keep the Harrison Barnes pick, and it's also likely that it moved them up enough in the draft order for Draymond Green to have been around for their 3rd pick.

The Wolves just sucked for many years in a row, so much so that one of their only non-bust lottery picks of the last 10 or so years wanted out, and it just so happened to be a year in which the team with the #1 pick was in win-now mode and willing to trade for less than it normally would have taken.

The Hawks, Wizards, Clippers, Mavericks, Blazers and just about every other team that's not a marquee free agent destination can all trace their current rosters back to a prolonged run of sucking. Those runs just didn't happen 2 years ago so nobody remembers it.

The Sixers played better this year than last (and played better after making some allegedly terrible tanking trades) and are pretty much guaranteed to play better in 15-16 even if Embiid is hurt the whole season and you preemptively rule out the possibility of them signing any free agents or making any trades.

Originally Posted by Arles

Elton Brand left the Clippers for Philly. I think the reason this strategy bothers me (in addition to how awful the product is) is the fact that Philly is completely ignoring two of the three ways to improve your team (free agency and trade). Philly refuses to trade for or sign better current players.

The flip side of that is that Elton Brand was getting paid $16 million to average 11 points and 7 rebounds in 2012, all for being part of a team that won one playoff series because the other team's two best players got injured. No matter how crappy the destination, you can overpay someone enough to get them to join your team. Philadelphia can have a pretty easy path to 35 wins this year by signing like DeMarre Carroll and Reggie Jackson to max deals if they really wanted to.

[stevew]

A few years ago everyone was mocking the Wizards for trading for aging vets like Ariza and Gortat. And Nene fits the same bill as well. Probably the Wizards will never win a title but their situation is something like Philly could be doing.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

A few years ago everyone was mocking the Wizards for trading for aging vets like Ariza and Gortat. And Nene fits the same bill as well. Probably the Wizards will never win a title but their situation is something like Philly could be doing.

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

Yeah, whoda thunk that Jan Vesely, Otto Porter and Javale McGee wouldn't work out!

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

The Wizards drafted 5th, 1st, 6th, 3rd, and 3rd in the 5 years prior to trading for Gortat, so the 76ers are certainly ahead of schedule in that regard.

Would it matter for the 76ers?

13 picks over the past 3 seasons and do you know how many mins they will get this year from those actual draft picks? Whatever Jerami Grant gets in playing time this year. They traded for Noel. That is either a great job of flipping talent or a horrible job drafting.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

People act like the NBA is this binary equation where it is Championship or bust. We don't look at the NFL that way, or MLB or even hockey.

These other sports aren't comparable to the NBA. The better team wins a 7 game series in the NBA the vast majority of the time. The only NBA team to win a title as a 4 seed or lower in the past 50 years is the '95 rockets (who picked up Drexler at mid-season).

[stevew]

Lol about the Warriors not shamefully tanking. As mentioned earlier

[mckerney]

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by nol

The Warriors were 18-21 at the trade deadline of 2012 (2 games out of the 8 seed) and went 5-22 the rest of the way by trading their leading scorer for an injured player and shutting down Curry for the rest of the season. 100 percent tanking. That enabled them to keep the Harrison Barnes pick, and it's also likely that it moved them up enough in the draft order for Draymond Green to have been around for their 3rd pick.

While the Warriors very clearly tanked at the end of that season, I think none of the above are the reasons for it. Curry being hurt necessitated taking it easy on him (the budding young superstar that they were putting their faith in over Monte), and in a year where you're not going anywhere, that's hardly 'tanking.' Trading Monte Ellis for Andrew Bogut was somewhat defensible at the time (pretty sure I was happy as it happened, actually), and is now in retrospect (even before the title) completely and totally defensible.

They shamelessly tanked, however, at the end of the year when they started benching all the rest of their starters to ensure that they didn't lose the protected pick.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

While the Warriors very clearly tanked at the end of that season, I think none of the above are the reasons for it. Curry being hurt necessitated taking it easy on him (the budding young superstar that they were putting their faith in over Monte), and in a year where you're not going anywhere, that's hardly 'tanking.' Trading Monte Ellis for Andrew Bogut was somewhat defensible at the time (pretty sure I was happy as it happened, actually), and is now in retrospect (even before the title) completely and totally defensible.

They shamelessly tanked, however, at the end of the year when they started benching all the rest of their starters to ensure that they didn't lose the protected pick.

Right, everything's atrocious and tanking at the time but is forgotten as soon as the team's good (and it didn't even take a championship, most people probably forgot about that by the playoffs the following season).

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Would it matter for the 76ers?

13 picks over the past 3 seasons and do you know how many mins they will get this year from those actual draft picks? Whatever Jerami Grant gets in playing time this year. They traded for Noel. That is either a great job of flipping talent or a horrible job drafting.

The draft picks from 2013-15 have played 3 cumulative seasons and will have played 6 cumulative seasons this time next year, so anything about how the draft picks have developed is somewhat premature.

Here was the projected starting lineup core of the team when Hinkie took over: Holiday, Evan Turner, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes, and Andrew Bynum. Three of those guys are punch lines, Holiday got traded for Nerlens Noel, Saric, and a future first round pick from Orlando, and they were on track to get a lottery pick for Thad Young's expiring contract until Chris Bosh missed half the season and the Heat sat everyone at the end to keep the pick.

[bhlloy]

There's tanking and then there is deliberately taking players who either can't or aren't willing to play for you over a number of years to make sure you are awful for as long as possible.

[murrayyyyy]

All while giving up Vuc, harkless, turner, peyton and someone else I'm blanking on. And that's just first rounders. You think one of the past 8 2nd round picks could have made the roster still

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by nol

Right, everything's atrocious and tanking at the time but is forgotten as soon as the team's good (and it didn't even take a championship, most people probably forgot about that by the playoffs the following season).

I'm saying that the moves you are citing as "tanking" have motives that are not solely "make our draft pick higher."

[RainMaker]

Well they do have 3 Centers now although 1 may have a messed up foot. And I guess a stretch 4 is coming over in 2017 but won't be on a rookie scale contract.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'm saying that the moves you are citing as "tanking" have motives that are not solely "make our draft pick higher."

Golden State didn't want Curry to get hurt. Philly didn't want Embiid to get hurt. New York didn't wan't Carmelo to get hurt. Golden State wasn't going anywhere that year. Philly wasn't going anywhere this year. New York wasn't going anywhere this year. The exact same justifications work in literally every circumstance (and they're totally fine, but none of them are any different from one another).

Originally Posted by bhlloy

There's tanking and then there is deliberately taking players who either can't or aren't willing to play for you over a number of years to make sure you are awful for as long as possible.

And then there's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I could not look at anyone drafted no. 4 or later in 2014 and confidently say that he will score more points per game than Embiid this coming season. If you somehow made an armchair diagnosis that Embiid will be injured his entire career, then you're more qualified than any doctor who works with the NBA because the Magic (or some team that traded up) were ready to take him with the 4th pick. I'd almost say the same for Saric; Capela is the only guy taken after him who's looked particularly impressive and he's completely redundant with Noel.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

All while giving up Vuc, harkless, turner, peyton and someone else I'm blanking on. And that's just first rounders. You think one of the past 8 2nd round picks could have made the roster still

Once again, half of these guys (plus Andre Iguodala) were traded the year before Hinkie was hired as the Sixers made a 'win now' move to get Andrew Bynum. 3 of the 4 players play for a team that won 25 games this year, so I'm not sure how they would help the Sixers be competitive now. The other guy is Evan Turner, who has been a net negative for every team he's played for.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by nol

And then there's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I could not look at anyone drafted no. 4 or later in 2014 and confidently say that he will score more points per game than Embiid this coming season. If you somehow made an armchair diagnosis that Embiid will be injured his entire career, then you're more qualified than any doctor who works with the NBA because the Magic (or some team that traded up) were ready to take him with the 4th pick. I'd almost say the same for Saric; Capela is the only guy taken after him who's looked particularly impressive and he's completely redundant with Noel.

Well 2 teams ahead in the draft decided to pass on him because of medical concerns. 7 footer with a bad foot and low bone density made him a high risk selection.

I'd have taken him too because the reward is just too high but when you take the Philly approach to rebuilding, there's only so many times you can strike out on high picks.

[Atocep]

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

[nol]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well 2 teams ahead in the draft decided to pass on him because of medical concerns. 7 footer with a bad foot and low bone density made him a high risk selection.

I'd have taken him too because the reward is just too high but when you take the Philly approach to rebuilding, there's only so many times you can strike out on high picks.

Yeah, Wiggins and Parker were good enough that you could pass on him but nobody thus far is making you say, "Yep, they should have taken _____."

Odds are if the Sixers took Dante Exum or Aaron Gordon or someone, that player would be considered a bust right now (even though it's still too early in anyone's career to declare anything other than that Wiggins will be good) and people would be talking about Embiid like he's a colossus waiting to be unleashed.

[Arles]

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

Partly because the best player makes more of a difference than in other sports and partly because of the perception that basketball players are lazier than other athletes.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

The only team I can think of that was tanking hard and turned it into a big success is OKC. And even then it took some really good luck to have players fall into their lap at the right time.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I still struggle to understand why tanking is so terrible in basketball but ok (or not nearly as bad) in other sports.

because one player is 20% of your lineup at any time. And superstars win titles.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

Yes, which goes back to the fact that teams like Atlanta and Washington have spent many more years being terrible than Philadelphia has with this so-called tanking strategy, and Philadelphia was in one of the worst situations in recent NBA history with the combination of a losing team, high salaries, and a city that's not a free agent destination location.

For example, the Lakers would have drafted Okafor yesterday if not for the fact that a high-profile free agent is going to leave a better team to sign with them for no reason other than that they're the Lakers. If Russell had gone to the 76ers they'd have been a dark horse playoff team in the East this season.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, whoda thunk that Jan Vesely, Otto Porter and Javale McGee wouldn't work out!

Otto Porter has actually worked out very well. Still so pissed about Jan Vessley.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

Atleast teams like Golden State and OKC had talents like Westbrook/Durant/Harden or Curry/Thompson/Green 3 years into their "sucking".

In addition to the fact that GS did tank, look at those three - Steph Curry was not just considered injury prone by lazy sportswriters, but actually was injury prone enough that he signed a hilariously cheap extension because even he didn't know if he'd stay healthy. People were pretty aghast last summer that GS stuck with Klay Thompson and didn't trade him. And even Steve Kerr had Draymond penciled in for 10-15 minutes a game until injuries (and Green's breakout) forced his hand.

OKC is the extremely rare example where a team with 3 top 5 picks picked 3 eventual superstars who looked great from day one. Philly is like most where it's very uncertain and requires some luck - There's no guarantee any of them will pan out into a superstar, but that Noel/Embiid/Okafor trio looks at least as likely to produce 1-2 stars as the GS trio did as recently as like 2013.

Glad we agree on Johnson - the weight is another point in Johnson's favor I don't think Winslow is undersized, but he's a true SF that can occasionally play in the post off a P&R switch. Meanwhile ohnson could be a real 4 the way the league is progressing

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know, the Bucks, Hawks, Raptors and Wizards looked pretty hopeless 2-3 years ago and now all field fairly solid teams. You can "stink", but still collect legit NBA players and not be w complete embarrassment. And who knows, maybe like with Atlanta or Washington - you might end up with a real shot in the East one season.

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Yes, which goes back to the fact that teams like Atlanta and Washington have spent many more years being terrible than Philadelphia has with this so-called tanking strategy, and Philadelphia was in one of the worst situations in recent NBA history with the combination of a losing team, high salaries, and a city that's not a free agent destination location.

No, Philly has put themselves in the wrong situation by trying to circumvent the salary cap with a GM who has a business degree. He figured out the loop hole in the CBA with regards to cap floor and contract formats. The 76ers stayed below the 90% cap floor for most of the season until the trade deadline. He's making the owner a shit ton of money. He won't get fired for this. This is the major reason that they can't sign a talented free agent.

Also Hinkie says they traded MCW (ROY the year before) to get a 1st round pick because he wasn't developing. Well no shit. You surround him with players who should be in the D-League that can't run an offensive set or guard anyone and guess what, your best young player won't develop. Everyone wants to jump on Noel for having no offensive game his first few years... well, who the hell is getting him the ball? Scrubs?

MCW was traded after 41 games and finished 3rd on the 76ers in 2P FGM. And MCW was 2 times as high as any other 76ers in assists on the year. 2nd? Wroten who played 30 games because of injuries. That's right, the highest player for them that played in more than half the games was Noel at 1.7 a game.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.

Yeah, but "pretty hopeless" and "#4 Eastern Conference playoff seed" mean the same thing.

[Brian Swartz]

On the other hand, the Hawks weren't the #4 seed this year. For quite a while they were serious contenders for the best record in the league and won 60 games, easily making them the East's top seed.

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

This is the major reason that they can't sign a talented free agent.

Also Hinkie says they traded MCW (ROY the year before) to get a 1st round pick because he wasn't developing. Well no shit. You surround him with players who should be in the D-League that can't run an offensive set or guard anyone and guess what, your best young player won't develop. Everyone wants to jump on Noel for having no offensive game his first few years... well, who the hell is getting him the ball? Scrubs?

MCW was traded after 41 games and finished 3rd on the 76ers in 2P FGM. And MCW was 2 times as high as any other 76ers in assists on the year. 2nd? Wroten who played 30 games because of injuries. That's right, the highest player for them that played in more than half the games was Noel at 1.7 a game.

I'd estimate over half the league has not attracted a talented free agent from another team over the past two offseasons, and this is even being charitable and counting teams like Detroit and Charlotte as having signed someone when those turned to be really bad decisions like Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson.

As someone who had Noel on his fantasy team, I can tell you those scrubs like Ish Smith (6 assists per game) did a better job of getting him the ball than Carter-Williams was doing; March was Noel's highest-scoring and highest field goal percentage month. The 76ers can definitely guard people better than the average team, which is impressive in its own right for how young everyone is.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I know no one watches the Hawks but they've made the playoffs for 8 straight years.

They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

I'd estimate over half the league has not attracted a talented free agent from another team over the past two offseasons, and this is even being charitable and counting teams like Detroit and Charlotte as having signed someone when those turned to be really bad decisions like Josh Smith and Lance Stephenson.

100% incorrect. The 76ers are easily the only NBA franchise who has not signed a free agent over the past 2 seasons from another team. It's not even close. Their UFA's were resigning Jason Richardson (2014) and Kwame Brown (2013). The 76ers are the NBA version of a ponzi scheme and anyone who pays to watch them pay deserves to lose their money.

Charlotte got Jefferson, Maxiell, B Roberts, Stephenson and Mar Williams

Detroit got Augustin, Martin, Butler, Gray, Meeks, Jennings, Billups, J Smooth

76ers got 0 because that's how much effort they are putting into it. I can take those free agents for the Hornets and Pistons and beat the 76ers by 20 5 nights a week.

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (2013)

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (2014)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

Josh Smith and Joe Johnson were not the Hawks best players. Both were considered an albatross because of their contracts. Al Horford was their best player when healthy. Josh Smith in his last season with the Hawks probably doesn't crack the top 3 and Joe Johnson was making $18 mil per year to be a high usage, above average player. Horford, Korver, and Teague were better players which is backed up by Win Shares.

The only player the Sixers had that would crack that top 3 would have been Thaddeus Young. His game deteriorated in 2014 and the Sixers rightfully moved him as he's only gotten worse since. Their next best player would have been Spencer Hawes or Jrue Holiday. Holiday is another player Hinkie was smart to move as his 2nd season in the NBA is still his best. If Spencer Hawes is your 3rd best player it's time rebuild.

3 of the Hawks 4 best players this year were Horford, Teague, and Korver. Guys who were already on the roster. Out of the "core" players on that 2013 Sixers roster none have played better since leaving Philly.

The Hawks were in position to tweak their roster, although it would be interesting to see how they would have done this year had their attempts to land Carmelo succeeded.

Philly needed a full scale rebuild. They're doing the same thing the Cubs and Astros have been doing and the same thing the Marlins do every other year. Fans aren't buying tickets for Sixers games thinking they're going to see a team trying to win right now.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by mckerney

This is too funny for words.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Arles

They were 38-44 last year (one game ahead of the Knicks and snuck in for the 8 seed). They had lost their two best players over the prior 2 years (Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) and were not thought to be a very competitive team. However, instead of hitting the reboot like Philly, they made some shrewd signings (Lou Williams, Paul Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Thabo), spent a little money, drafted a few players to actually contribute (Schroder, Mike Scott,..) and ended up with a pretty strong team.

There is no reason why Philly couldn't have taken a similar approach after the 2013 season. Instead, they went after players who were injured (Noel, Embiid), in Europe (Saric and a bunch of 2nds) and didn't make any effort to add NBA talent via FA/trade.

True but the 76ers have 1 season over .500 in the past 10 years and that was during the lockout year. They've won 37 games in 2 seasons. The last time the Hawks didn't win at least 37 games in 1 season is 2006.

The only thing I can think of comparing the mess in Philly to is when Silas let his son coach some games while he just sat in his chair the entire game in Charlotte during the lockout season.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

This is too funny for words.

That was funny, but man the NBA needs to beef up their security if a tall guy is all you need to get close to NBA players and fans.

[Young Drachma]

He might have had a press pass handy and didn't tell us that part. He was being trailed by a camera the whole time, so..seems like they would've been able to figure something out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

The last time the Hawks didn't win at least 37 games in 1 season is 2006.

But until very recently, mediocrity was quite acceptable in the organization.

There was nothing there in most of those seasons for anyone to particular hang their hat on, that 37 wins streak says a lot more about the rest of the league frankly.

[stevew]

The plumlee Brooklyn traded is the good one, right? I know deadspin touched on it, but it truly looks awful

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

100% incorrect. The 76ers are easily the only NBA franchise who has not signed a free agent over the past 2 seasons from another team. It's not even close. Their UFA's were resigning Jason Richardson (2014) and Kwame Brown (2013). The 76ers are the NBA version of a ponzi scheme and anyone who pays to watch them pay deserves to lose their money.

Charlotte got Jefferson, Maxiell, B Roberts, Stephenson and Mar Williams

Detroit got Augustin, Martin, Butler, Gray, Meeks, Jennings, Billups, J Smooth

76ers got 0 because that's how much effort they are putting into it. I can take those free agents for the Hornets and Pistons and beat the 76ers by 20 5 nights a week.

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (2013)

Free Agent Tracker | NBA.com (2014)

Yeah but he said talented FA.

My view is skewed because of playing text-sim games and seeing just how well tanking works in the fictional FOBL (though I think there are plenty of real-world examples where it has been just peachy). I'd rather see the Sixers win 18 than 32-33 as the Pistons/Hornets did. At least as someone who doesn't care about actually watching them. The NBA is built on stars, not serviceable journeyman free agents.

[nol]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yeah but he said talented FA.

My view is skewed because of playing text-sim games and seeing just how well tanking works in the fictional FOBL (though I think there are plenty of real-world examples where it has been just peachy). I'd rather see the Sixers win 18 than 32-33 as the Pistons/Hornets did. At least as someone who doesn't care about actually watching them. The NBA is built on stars, not serviceable journeyman free agents.

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by stevew

The plumlee Brooklyn traded is the good one, right? I know deadspin touched on it, but it truly looks awful

He's the one that plays with team USA so yes. Lionel Hollins hates him. Well, I mean the direct quote that started it was: “I’d rather [Plumlee] never shoot a jump shot.”

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

I'd expect more from a team still charging 6k for tickets that aren't front row or center court personally. If you want to be a cheap team that sucks I should be getting cheaper NBA tickets. I could watch Memphis for the same seats as the 76ers and pay 1200 less for season tickets.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by nol

From a financial standpoint I'd rather have an owner who says "If we're gonna suck, we're gonna suck on the leanest budget in the league" than one who tries to stay around the cap regardless of how good the team is. Brian Roberts probably makes more money this season than just about everyone who played for the Sixers except Noel, and I do not have any memory of seeing him play this season.

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

from a financial standpoint, i´d rather have an owner who uses the savings to lower ticket prices, pays his regular employes more money or at least does not stoop to shortchanging low salary guys with legal but still kinda despicable moves and pressuring their 2nd rounders into a corner. (Hint: They did neither of those things). Otherwise, why would a fan or "bystander" care ?

And i am not at all blaming it on the players or say they do not deserve some recognition even. They played hard and were also incredibly coachable and did an downright admirable job. But no one is saying the mailed it in, thats not the point.

Yes, the Warriors tanked late in seasons and yes, other teams also suck and/or tanked. But again: They pick up players on the FA market and in trades. And some of those pickups sucked. But the 76ers don´t try there and expect that they can magically fill out there roster with 5 - 8 well fitting players whenever they feel like it. But that is not how it works. Again, look at the Warriors who essentially picked up 1 or 2 of their current rotation per season. Also, do you think that after 3,4,5 seasons of loosing basketball their current crop of "young stars" will definitely sign an extension ? Or be actually ready for a big role on a winning team ?
It somewhat worked like that for the Cavs, but they also had LeBron James.
And again, with the rising cap the 76ers seem doomed as far as attracting good role players to complement their "stars" even if they develop. They have a reputation now and its not a good one...

[whomario]

Bjelica reportedly signing for 3/12 with the Wolves, would be surprisingly low.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by nol

From an entertainment standpoint I'd rather watch a bunch of 20-22 year old kids play hard and try to figure stuff out on the way to 18 wins than some mediocre veteran team that wins 25-30 games going through the motions.

Yeah, there is that too. For any moribund MLB team (oh hai, Phillies!) it's more fun to watch young guys than the 30yo veteran washouts who make the rounds (sorry, Jeff Francoer). Of course in their case, it makes sense for the organization to keep them down so their clocks don't start ticking.

At least where I am I get to see the Nats and O's play...

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I'd expect more from a team still charging 6k for tickets that aren't front row or center court personally. If you want to be a cheap team that sucks I should be getting cheaper NBA tickets. I could watch Memphis for the same seats as the 76ers and pay 1200 less for season tickets.

Admittedly, my opinions are from someone who will gladly spend $0 to watch or not watch on his couch.

[stevew]

Someone broke down the math on that McGhee trade, right? Basically he bypassed 10-12m in $$ that got split amongst the 15man roster to assume a 12M salary that was already 75% paid for. Meaning they spent 3M on a late pick and saved a bunch of money via accounting.

Sixers organization=pieces of shit.

I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the move if they had gotten more for taking on Javelle

[stevew]

Also what's the prognosis on Embiid? If he can't go all season I wonder if it's even worth picking up his 3rd year option. They'll be so far under the cap that they can still make a nice offer for him if his medicald check out.

Likewise in the option department, Anthony Bennett should be the first #1 overall to have a 4th year option declined. Just two consecutive bad situations for that kid and Maybe he just flat out sucks.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

from a financial standpoint, i´d rather have an owner who uses the savings to lower ticket prices, pays his regular employes more money or at least does not stoop to shortchanging low salary guys with legal but still kinda despicable moves and pressuring their 2nd rounders into a corner. (Hint: They did neither of those things). Otherwise, why would a fan or "bystander" care ?

A 2nd round pick is by definition backed into a corner; there are 450 spots in the NBA and those guys weren't even deemed one of the best 30 players coming into the league. Most of them play overseas or don't get signed and try the D League. The Sixers type of offer is the happy medium between taking more money overseas and playing somewhere in full view of NBA scouts. The players make the same amount of money a late first-rounder gets in exchange for not having a guaranteed contract in years 3 and 4.

As KJ McDaniels showed, players are 100 percent free to negotiate for a better deal (just as fans are 100 percent free to not spend thousands of dollars on season tickets). I'm positive the Sixers spend more than any other team on infrastructure like an analytics department, training facilities, and scouting, so it's definitely not some scheme to line the owners' pockets.