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View Poll Results: If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next
Normal transition of power. He meets with Biden, stays until 1/20, comes to inauguration, etc. 5 5.56%
He doesn't fight the result, but resigns prior to the inauguration. 2 2.22%
He fights the result but gives up shortly before the inauguration (let's define "shortly" as "some time after the EC meets on 12/14") 30 33.33%
He fights the result all the way to January 20th. Has to be physically removed. 12 13.33%
He fights the result for a short time, but gives up and resigns before the inauguration 6 6.67%
He fights the result for a short time, but gives up an then we have a normal transition as per option 1. 30 33.33%
Other. (You know you gotta specify this one.) 5 5.56%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-21-2021, 12:55 PM   #3401
bronconick
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That was the plan all along.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:23 PM   #3402
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For 8 years of Obama, the Dems tried to reach out and compromise. They negotiated against themselves and took less than they wanted in order to reach out in a real bipartisan way.

And they got called radical and socialist and partisan and overly political.

So, having learned that no matter what they do, the GOP will call them radical (and the media will dutifully repeat the line), the Dems have (it seems) decided to start doing what they think will result in the best policy outcomes.

The GOP brought this on themselves. They have somehow managed to make the Democrats--the Democrats--into semi-competent politicians.

Had they been willing to throw the Black President half of a bone now and then, they'd have the Dems as the GOP-lite party. But they couldn't even do that.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:40 PM   #3403
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The GOP is now saying they won't support a debt limit increase.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:45 PM   #3404
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Nobody should be supporting a debt limit increase without immediately cutting the deficit.
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:57 PM   #3405
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We should get rid of the debt limit.

If we don't want debt, we should tax more and spend less.

Requiring a post-hoc vote to raise the limit *after* we've cut taxes and increased spending does nothing to raise taxes or decrease spending. It just makes our bonds slightly more risky. Which ends up increasing the deficit by increasing the cost of borrowing.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:00 PM   #3406
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lol. Being reported McCarthy pulled all his nominations for the committee. What a bitch.

If you're putting Gym Jordan on a panel, you aren't taking the process serious in the first place.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:09 PM   #3407
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This is the guy that smashed the window Ashli Babbitt tried to climb through. Still insane he didn't get a felony murder charge but not surprising based on his skin color.

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Old 07-21-2021, 02:19 PM   #3408
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Pretty sure that has more to do with what they think they can reasonably secure conviction on, it's not always about skin color. But, yeah, he is a douchebag and deserves pretty much the maximum of whatever he gets charged with and should be held in contempt.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:19 PM   #3409
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The level of privilege these people think they are entitled to is staggering. Saying the prosecutor isn't doing her job by not offering a deal. Unreal.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:22 PM   #3410
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The level of privilege these people think they are entitled to is staggering. Saying the prosecutor isn't doing her job by not offering a deal. Unreal.

Yeah, this guy is broken and will always be a menace, he learned absolutely nothing from this.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:49 PM   #3411
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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
For 8 years of Obama, the Dems tried to reach out and compromise. They negotiated against themselves and took less than they wanted in order to reach out in a real bipartisan way.

And they got called radical and socialist and partisan and overly political.

So, having learned that no matter what they do, the GOP will call them radical (and the media will dutifully repeat the line), the Dems have (it seems) decided to start doing what they think will result in the best policy outcomes.

The GOP brought this on themselves. They have somehow managed to make the Democrats--the Democrats--into semi-competent politicians.

Had they been willing to throw the Black President half of a bone now and then, they'd have the Dems as the GOP-lite party. But they couldn't even do that.

I think this is all spot on. No matter who the Democrats line up, whether Biden or Bernie or Marx or they will be labeled a communist, socialist, and Antifa (still not sure why being anti-fascist is seen a bad thing, but here we are). The Democrats best pathway to retaining and growing their majority and their value is to demonstrate that government can still function. Today's Republicans seem like their top priority is to break the government so that they can say that the government is dysfunctional and does not work. I think Sherrod Brown, a few months ago, said that the best way to regain the goodwill of the people is to govern well. Most of the Republicans currently in power are not interested in seeing that happen right now.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:19 PM   #3412
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Pretty sure that has more to do with what they think they can reasonably secure conviction on, it's not always about skin color. But, yeah, he is a douchebag and deserves pretty much the maximum of whatever he gets charged with and should be held in contempt.

They use felony murder charges all the time when someone dies during a crime. Store owner shoots a robber and the getaway driver gets charged with felony murder.

This guy was literally breaking the window and helping her through it when she was killed. There is no better example of felony murder than what took place.

Like I said, felony murder is only used against certain criminals.
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Old 07-21-2021, 04:03 PM   #3413
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I think this is an interesting article on that subject.

Felony Murder and the Storming of the Capitol - Lawfare
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:06 PM   #3414
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https://mobile.twitter.com/RealCanda...86513651568648

They always come this close, then apparently their system reboots.
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:07 PM   #3415
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They use felony murder charges all the time when someone dies during a crime. Store owner shoots a robber and the getaway driver gets charged with felony murder.

This guy was literally breaking the window and helping her through it when she was killed. There is no better example of felony murder than what took place.

Like I said, felony murder is only used against certain criminals.

I know how it works my friend, but they also as a practice won't apply a charge that likely won't stick regardless of what the criminal looks like, you can't broad brush everything, it doesn't represent the full picture. He broke the window, but it would be hard to tie her actions, in trying to enter, to what he did. Again, the guy is a POS and hopefully gets every years of his 40 year max sentence after his behavior, but I really doubt they would have gotten felony murder to stick.
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:00 PM   #3416
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Nobody should be supporting a debt limit increase without immediately cutting the deficit.

OK Boomer...That mindset was jettisoned in the 80's, it's just that the world didn't realize it yet and only kept it around to sound smart. That argument also lost any sort of validity the moment that the previous congress and administration passed that tax overhaul that gave away a trillion a year in good times. We saw the economy collapse and the only out was more spending. It only amplified the concept as stated above, that deficits don't matter and won't ever again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BYU 14 View Post
I know how it works my friend, but they also as a practice won't apply a charge that likely won't stick regardless of what the criminal looks like, you can't broad brush everything, it doesn't represent the full picture. He broke the window, but it would be hard to tie her actions, in trying to enter, to what he did. Again, the guy is a POS and hopefully gets every years of his 40 year max sentence after his behavior, but I really doubt they would have gotten felony murder to stick.

Just wait until the next trump-like president blanket pardons every. single. one.
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:01 PM   #3417
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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
For 8 years of Obama, the Dems tried to reach out and compromise. They negotiated against themselves and took less than they wanted in order to reach out in a real bipartisan way.

And they got called radical and socialist and partisan and overly political.

So, having learned that no matter what they do, the GOP will call them radical (and the media will dutifully repeat the line), the Dems have (it seems) decided to start doing what they think will result in the best policy outcomes.

The GOP brought this on themselves. They have somehow managed to make the Democrats--the Democrats--into semi-competent politicians.

Had they been willing to throw the Black President half of a bone now and then, they'd have the Dems as the GOP-lite party. But they couldn't even do that.

Talk to me when the filibuster is altered in such a way they actually DO something.
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:22 PM   #3418
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OK Boomer...That mindset was jettisoned in the 80's, it's just that the world didn't realize it yet and only kept it around to sound smart. That argument also lost any sort of validity the moment that the previous congress and administration passed that tax overhaul that gave away a trillion a year in good times. We saw the economy collapse and the only out was more spending. It only amplified the concept as stated above, that deficits don't matter and won't ever again.

Ok Dick Cheney. Deficits don't matter. Runaway debt never hurt any government, ever. And if the last administration increased the deficit then it was good policy right? Because that's the one thing everyone associates with the Trump Presidency, that they had good policy right?
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:48 PM   #3419
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You're arguing against the bipartisan decisions of the US government for the last 40 years. Arguably, the shit went from eh, we can manage, to fuck it and forget it, but still, it's the policy of the country. No other country is comparable in that regard to the US, because no other country is as successful as the US economically past or present and therefore comparisons are somewhat moot.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:44 PM   #3420
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Nobody should be supporting a debt limit increase without immediately cutting the deficit.

No, the debt limit should be automatically increased depending on the yearly budget. Deficit fights should take place then, not when the country is voting on whether or not to pay the bills.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:07 PM   #3421
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Ok Dick Cheney. Deficits don't matter. Runaway debt never hurt any government, ever. And if the last administration increased the deficit then it was good policy right? Because that's the one thing everyone associates with the Trump Presidency, that they had good policy right?
And can you tell me exactly what the deep cratering of the US economy (much less the world's) would do to help the deficit once the US doesn't pass the debt ceiling increase and defaults on its debts?
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Old 07-22-2021, 01:46 AM   #3422
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I know how it works my friend, but they also as a practice won't apply a charge that likely won't stick regardless of what the criminal looks like, you can't broad brush everything, it doesn't represent the full picture. He broke the window, but it would be hard to tie her actions, in trying to enter, to what he did. Again, the guy is a POS and hopefully gets every years of his 40 year max sentence after his behavior, but I really doubt they would have gotten felony murder to stick.

Sorry but this is horseshit. The federal government goes with heavy handed charges all the time. People who were merely in the vicinity of people causing trouble during the inauguration faced 60 years in prison.

J20 protests: All you need to know about the nearly 200 people facing 60 years in jail for protesting Trump | The Independent | The Independent

If these were Muslims or black protestors, not only would a lot of them be dead, but every person who stepped into the Capitol would have been charged with felony murder.

The DOJ went soft on these people, including the organizers who have not faced any legal consequences. Five people died, others were injured, millions in damages, and pipebombs found. Next to no serious charges filed and I doubt any suspects see more than a couple years behind bars.
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Old 07-22-2021, 01:51 AM   #3423
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You don't have to go back far to see the disparity.

America's protest crackdown: five months after George Floyd, hundreds face trials and prison | Arizona | The Guardian
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Old 07-22-2021, 12:20 PM   #3424
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Imagine a Muslim man violently stormed the Capitol, had extremist views on social media, a pipebomb in his residence, and ordered over 30 guns AFTER being arrested and is still out on bond. The dude would be at Guantanamo.

FBI Found IED Components in Thomas Robertson's Home: Report
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:59 AM   #3425
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:05 AM   #3426
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He said the loud thing out loud.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:22 AM   #3427
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Can you really say the blatantly obvious, in an anymore blatantly obvious fashion? They don't care about election integrity, it's about subverting democracy for power.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:56 AM   #3428
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Every county in Oklahoma went red and some in the Senate there are pushing for an audit.
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:10 PM   #3429
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Will be very interesting to see if he just runs off to the Middle East.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/polit...ing/index.html
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:18 PM   #3430
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Will be very interesting to see if he just runs off to the Middle East.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/polit...ing/index.html

Someone with enough resources to secure a 5 million bond payment is definitely worthy of being considered a flight risk.
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Old 07-23-2021, 06:04 PM   #3431
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Barrack had to put up $250 million! I'd say that's enough to keep you in the country, but the guy is 74 facing prison for the rest of his life. Plus he's worth over a billion and has made a lot of friends in the Middle East. I'd be shocked if he didn't bolt.
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Old 07-23-2021, 06:33 PM   #3432
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Sort of sounds like Gaetz might skate.

Gaetz case takes bizarre tabloid turn
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:55 PM   #3433
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Sort of sounds like Gaetz might skate.

Gaetz case takes bizarre tabloid turn

Sounds like somebody got the expected payoff, that fucker is such a slimeball
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:30 AM   #3434
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It appears that we have an opportunity to turn the tide on the Trump-related anti-vaxxers (although personally I think too many of them are too far gone to budge from their positions), but looking back, it still amazes me that knowing what another shutdown would do to the economy, the GOP play wasn't to simply declare victory for Trump on the vaccine and urge everyone to get it.

I guess the "do the opposite of what your sworn enemy wants" urge was too hard to resist, since the only policy positions the GOP run on now are outrage at what the other side wants, guns, abortion, and white culture.
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Old 07-25-2021, 11:06 AM   #3435
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It used to be conservatism is the opposite of liberalism, updated daily. Now I think the updates are hourly.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:20 AM   #3436
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The crazy thing is, in an alternate universe where Trump actually wins the election, I think he continues pushing the vaccine - if for no other reason than he can claim total credit for the entire thing if it's successful. And judging by the way his administration handled pandemic funding, not only would his followers have willingly gotten the vaccine, they probably would have been first in line when they prioritized the red states over blue states. Instead, here we are now on the brink of another masked up fall as school and flu season begins.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:28 AM   #3437
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it still amazes me that knowing what another shutdown would do to the economy, the GOP play wasn't to simply declare victory for Trump on the vaccine and urge everyone to get it.

The theory I heard is that b/c Trump's initial approach was "the virus isn't that bad," the GOP was committed to that approach throughout the campaign.

That never made sense to me. It isn't like the the truth has stopped them before. I would have expected a "We've always been at war with Eastasia" pivot along the lines of "Trump has always been committed to stopping the China Virus. It's the Democrats who want to keep everyone sick." followed by a huge "Real MAGAs wear Masks!" campaign.

He'd be President Trump right now if they'd made that play. I'd love to be the fly on the wall to understand why they never did.

Last edited by albionmoonlight : 07-26-2021 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:41 AM   #3438
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You have a good point there.

His followers are going to go along with anything he says or does. So, why not go with what gets you the most support?

I am dumbfounded by this BS where they're against the vaccine just because it would be perceived as a Biden victory. You push the vaccine, claiming it is because of you that it happened and beat him somewhere else if you have to.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:53 AM   #3439
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Because they know if they push the vaccine and we get to herd immunity it is a Biden win and a big one. The economy would get rolling again, jobs would be up, schools open, people can go see grandma for Xmas, etc....

They need to keep this rolling through 2022 to try and make Biden look as bad as possible. It is a hail mary but it is really all they have. Other than some verbal miscues, CRT, transgenders in sports, and faux outrage about the border they have nothing to pin on Biden.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:57 AM   #3440
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You guys know this, but that is just plain stupid.

Trump took credit for the vaccine being created as quickly as it did. So, keep taking credit for it. More people will be on board and support you than what you have now.

This is why I try really hard not to pay attention to politics. This shit is maddening.

Back to not paying attention...
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:58 AM   #3441
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Literally 40% of voters choose their platform to be whatever FOX News, OAN, etc...tells them to be angry about that day. Lately it is Bidens gestapo going door to door holding people down and injecting them.
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Old 07-26-2021, 11:24 AM   #3442
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Trump took credit for the vaccine being created as quickly as it did. So, keep taking credit for it. More people will be on board and support you than what you have now.
Honestly, Trump could have one press conference where he claimed credit for the vaccines, reminded everyone that he got it on day one, and told all his followers to get it today. Then when the rates went way up, he could point to that graph and say (somewhat truthfully) "I did more to make the numbers go up in five minutes than Biden could do in the last three months".

I've given up on the Trump-ified GOP ever doing anything for any reason beyond grievance and his ego and owning the libs, but this checks all those boxes. It's right there for them.
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Old 07-26-2021, 12:16 PM   #3443
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Honestly, Trump could have one press conference where he claimed credit for the vaccines, reminded everyone that he got it on day one, and told all his followers to get it today. Then when the rates went way up, he could point to that graph and say (somewhat truthfully) "I did more to make the numbers go up in five minutes than Biden could do in the last three months".

I've given up on the Trump-ified GOP ever doing anything for any reason beyond grievance and his ego and owning the libs, but this checks all those boxes. It's right there for them.

He should also, just to keep his sycophants scared, pick a random GOP pol or pundit who is anti-vax and call him out individually. "Look at this guy? He's worse than the Democrat politicians! He's trying to get you killed! Why is he against my vaccine?" Every GOP pol and media member would become the most pro-vaccine people imaginable.
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Old 07-26-2021, 01:34 PM   #3444
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Yep. And he'd tie the media into pretzels trying to find some anti-Trump angle on the whole thing ("He should have done this sooner!"), which then plays right into his hands about the media witch hunt against him even when he does something good. It's win-win.
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Old 07-26-2021, 04:59 PM   #3445
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Honestly, Trump could have one press conference where he claimed credit for the vaccines, reminded everyone that he got it on day one, and told all his followers to get it today. Then when the rates went way up, he could point to that graph and say (somewhat truthfully) "I did more to make the numbers go up in five minutes than Biden could do in the last three months".

I've given up on the Trump-ified GOP ever doing anything for any reason beyond grievance and his ego and owning the libs, but this checks all those boxes. It's right there for them.

There is definitely a cultish vibe with Trump and his minions, but I don't know if he has that kind of pull. Part of his allure is he has a "populist" message with them. He tears the mask off and makes it acceptable to be a racist, criminal, and sex pest.

The vaccine is now part of the culture war and there is not much he can say or do to change that. And if anything, I think it would hurt his support if he came out with different messaging on vaccines.

These are people who craved validation on their previously held beliefs. He gives it to them. The minute he stops, he loses control over them.
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Old 07-26-2021, 05:04 PM   #3446
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I should add that it is a problem all Republicans have now. The messaging they need to win elections is not popular with their base. That's why they've made such a dramatic shift toward an autocratic government.
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:53 AM   #3447
Ksyrup
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So the pivot is complete - Trump bore some responsibility for January 6th, to nothing happened on January 6th, to Pelosi is responsible for what happened on January 6th. Meanwhile, no one who supports these people questions the inconsistency or shifting of these positions. It's like the virus/vaccine thing, all over again - the virus is a hoax or overblown but Trump deserves all the credit for getting us a vaccine so fast that I won't take because the virus is a hoax or overblown and it's Biden's fault Trump supporters won't get the vaccine.
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:00 AM   #3448
albionmoonlight
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Kettle logic - Wikipedia
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Old 07-27-2021, 10:16 AM   #3449
Ksyrup
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Tyler Perry is involved in the conspiracy! I should have known.

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Old 07-27-2021, 12:34 PM   #3450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup View Post
Tyler Perry is involved in the conspiracy! I should have known.



I really don't get this theory. It's been going around for months. They think Biden is the pretend president and Trump is the real president while at the same time blaming the fake Biden administration for all the bad things such as the door to door forced injections.
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