NFL Week 5 Discussion Thread: Randy Moss Traded to the Vikings - Page 8

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 10:32 PM

Just need the kicker to make a mistake one of these times, hopefully this is the time right here baby!

slip on your ass, son.. c'mon, goof it

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 10:36 PM

At least it's looking like a football game again instead of just a Jets Defense only game.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

He hasn't been perfect but his receivers and the weather haven't been helping him out. Not like the Vikings offense is showing how easy it is to move the ball in these conditions on the other side.

The last goalline stand was two obvious PI calls in the end zone (one where Sanchez threw the ball inch perfect and the receiver got hooked a little and gave up on the route) and then what I think was a pretty good pass to Keller which would probably have been caught in better conditions. And Keller just dropped another one right on the numbers on third and short inside the 20.

Sanchez isn't great (yet) and hasn't played as well as his numbers would suggest, but I don't think tonight is 100% his fault. Even the best offenses in the league would be struggling out there.

Well, Brett got his head out of his ass and just made about four perfect throws on third and long, so the conditions can't be so disastrous that it's impossible to complete a ten yard out.

Sanchez just got help from yet more teammates. He needs to find a way to punch this in the end zone here. I don't think I've ever seen a QB talked about so highly during a game he was 14-33. I'm sorry, he's not throwing the ball well at all. As I typed this, Sanchez threw into double coverage (and was lucky the ball wasn't tipped up) and threw a 6 yard out on 3rd and 8.)

Yet another chance wasted. In the second half, Sanchez is 2-6 for 3 yards and one should have been INT.

It may sound like I'm bashing him, but I'm not. I'm just pointing out he's played a poor game. His team will likely win it anyway, but I put the fault of them not scoring a TD squarely on him.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 10:39 PM

Do you go for 2 if the Vikes score.

MikeVic · 10-11-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Do you go for 2 if the Vikes score.

Yes.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:41 PM

Boom goes the dynamite.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:42 PM

I would kick it here. If the Jets score a TD and kick the extra point, you still have the chance to score a TD and go for two to tie. You miss here and a Jets TD ends the game.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 10:42 PM

Once Moss stopped playing ib New England, he lost his immunity to offensive pass interference calls.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:42 PM

Oh, and the Jets D is brutal on short yardage plays. I wouldn't take a chance on going for it.

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 10:42 PM

a timeout before an extra point? is chilly taking lessons from wandstead?

BishopMVP · 10-11-2010, 10:44 PM

I'm not the biggest Gregg Easterbrook fan, but he has a point here - Rex Ryan, stop sending blitzes that clear out one entire side on 3rd and 10+

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

a timeout before an extra point? is chilly taking lessons from wandstead?

Yup. Idiotic. And you make the wrong decision to boot.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I would kick it here. If the Jets score a TD and kick the extra point, you still have the chance to score a TD and go for two to tie. You miss here and a Jets TD ends the game.

They still have to get a 2 regardless. It would have been laughable if they kicked an XP here.

BishopMVP · 10-11-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I would kick it here. If the Jets score a TD and kick the extra point, you still have the chance to score a TD and go for two to tie. You miss here and a Jets TD ends the game.

This attitude makes no sense - you still have to make a 2-pt conversion at some point, and now you'll know whether you're one or two scores down before that possession.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm not the biggest Gregg Easterbrook fan, but he has a point here - Rex Ryan, stop sending blitzes that clear out one entire side on 3rd and 10+

Do you change your identity though? I mean, it took perfect throws on both third downs to beat em. I'm not saying you don't change, but the way the Jets play is pretty consistent.

By the way, the throw Sanchez made on first down was his best of the night.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 10:48 PM

Kicking an XP is idiotic Troy. They've tried to give the Jets 5 TDs already.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Kicking an XP is idiotic Troy. They've tried to give the Jets 5 TDs already.

I just don't like it. the way you are moving the ball, you'll get at least a FG. You miss the two and the Jets drive it down here, you lose the game.

Bigsmooth · 10-11-2010, 10:54 PM

Yeah it's official. Sanchez is really playing a shitty game.

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 10:54 PM

The Vikings made the right call going for two; no other choice in my opinion. None. You're still within field goal range to win so make the defense actually step it up and stop them before getting into field goal range and win that way.

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 10:57 PM

im a huge fan of taking the xtra point, but going for 2 there was the right call

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 10:59 PM

Man, sometimes Favre just needs to take a little bit off of it.

Missed again on a wide open slant.

BishopMVP · 10-11-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I just don't like it. the way you are moving the ball, you'll get at least a FG. You miss the two and the Jets drive it down here, you lose the game.

The only scenarios where 1/2 XP's help you is if the Jets kick 2 additional FG's (unlikely), the Jets miss an XP (very unlikely) or a safety either way. Your line of thinking seems to be that if the Jets drive down and score a TD you're better off being down 22-14 than 22-13. It looks that way on the surface, it prolongs the amount of time you are potentially within 1 score, but you still have to make that 2-pt conversion. Now if the Jets get that TD to go 22-13 you know you're down 2 scores and can adjust your playcalling and tempo accordingly. And all that assumes both teams score again - I know the Vikings looked good for 2 possessions there, but there's a pretty good chance neither team adds more than a FG for the rest of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Do you change your identity though? I mean, it took perfect throws on both third downs to beat em. I'm not saying you don't change, but the way the Jets play is pretty consistent.

You adjust to the game conditions.

Quote:

By the way, the throw Sanchez made on first down was his best of the night.

You didn't like the bullet at a 2-yd away Braylon Edwards sprinting back across the line of scrimmage?

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:02 PM

I think the Vikings may have just missed their best chance to win the game there. Moss has a step and is underthrown then Harvin missed twice where he was wide open. Vikings called the right plays, read the blitz correctly and didn't execute the play. Tough to win on the road when you do that.

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think the Vikings may have just missed their best chance to win the game there. Moss has a step and is underthrown then Harvin missed twice where he was wide open. Vikings called the right plays, read the blitz correctly and didn't execute the play. Tough to win on the road when you do that.

Yup Favre missed the two slants.. the deep one to Moss is still less than a 50% shot, so can't really do anything about that.

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 11:05 PM

well obviously they should have taken the xtra point now

Bigsmooth · 10-11-2010, 11:06 PM

That drive was beautiful. Championship teams make that drive to put a team away late.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:07 PM

If you kick the extra point, you still have a chance in this game. Now you have to have two scores within 4 and a half minutes. I think going for two was done far too early there. Yes, you need the two at some point. But missing early means the game is close to over late.

Sanchez had a decent last drive, but really this was about what it's been all night. By the way, Holding on Williams on the last run. The guy had him on the outside of the pads. Easy, obvious call missed.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:08 PM

Hey, at least Jaws agrees with me.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:10 PM

How can you miss that PI call? I mean, seriously. It was obvious in live action, it was obvious on the replay. That's just a horrible job of officiating there.

cmp · 10-11-2010, 11:10 PM

Pass Interference????

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:12 PM

Incredible catch. Incredible throw. That was an amazing play.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

Pass Interference????

Yeah, on the TE over the middle. It was obvious to everyone in the stadium, those watching on TV, the announcers and THEN they showed the replay where he was hit early. It was an obvious call and one that should be made by an NFL ref.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:15 PM

If I'm the Jets, I call a rollout pass here on second down. Vikings are going to be gunning for the run. Third and long is not something you want Sanchez doing. I think you call a pass right here, right now.

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:17 PM

And the completion. As an aside, if the first down running play gets under 3 yards, I throw on second down again. There is still plenty of time, even with no timeouts. The two minute warning will stop the clock anyway. Throw the ball here.

cmp · 10-11-2010, 11:18 PM

Wow, stupid play.

Ironhead · 10-11-2010, 11:18 PM

Some clock management blunders here.

cmp · 10-11-2010, 11:18 PM

Is Les Miles coaching?

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:19 PM

Sanchez makes two horrific throws there. Beyond horrible. Both high, both to wide open WR. Either one ends the game.

Bigsmooth · 10-11-2010, 11:19 PM

Unreal. Pretty much a given Favre gets them in FG range?

BishopMVP · 10-11-2010, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

If you kick the extra point, you still have a chance in this game. Now you have to have two scores within 4 and a half minutes. I think going for two was done far too early there. Yes, you need the two at some point. But missing early means the game is close to over late.

This isn't a complicated concept. We assume that Minnesota runs the same play/has the same result on the 2-pt conversion whether they attempt it with 10 minutes left or 2 minutes left. Knowing that they missed it and were down 2 scores allowed them to increase their tempo on that last drive and score with more time than they otherwise would have if they were down 8 and theoretically "1" score down (EDIT - and now get the ball back for a potential game winning FG with time left). Yes, the XP crowd makes sense early when different scoring combinations can still occur, but the entire line of thinking behind not going for 2 tonight at 15-13 relies on the outcome of the 2-pt conversion being different if they had waited until later in the game. That makes no logical sense, and it would have only increased the amount of time the Vikings appeared to be within one score, rather than their chance to win.

kingfc22 · 10-11-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

Is Les Miles coaching?

LMAO!

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 11:20 PM

throwing on 2nd down was smart cause the 2 min warning would stop the clock. not snaping the ball till the last second was the stupid thing. snapped to early and threw to fast

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:20 PM

By the way, when I said throw the ball on second down, it needed to be a rollout that took it to the two minute warning, not a slant pass that uses two seconds off of the clock. Still, the play was there, the QB made a poor throw.

mauchow · 10-11-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigsmooth

Unreal. Pretty much a given Favre gets them in FG range?

Yep, just like the NFC Championship game......

Fuck..

Lets go Favre, we need this win with Dallas, GB and Patriots coming up in the next three games.

Bigsmooth · 10-11-2010, 11:21 PM

I bet we see a pass interference soon...

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 11:23 PM

knowing Favre, and INT

TroyF · 10-11-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

This isn't a complicated concept. We assume that Minnesota runs the same play/has the same result on the 2-pt conversion whether they attempt it with 10 minutes left or 2 minutes left. Knowing that they missed it and were down 2 scores allowed them to increase their tempo on that last drive and score with more time than they otherwise would have if they were down 8 and theoretically "1" score down (EDIT - and now get the ball back for a potential game winning FG with time left). Yes, the XP crowd makes sense early when different scoring combinations can still occur, but the entire line of thinking behind not going for 2 tonight at 15-13 relies on the outcome of the 2-pt conversion being different if they had waited until later in the game. That makes no logical sense, and it would have only increased the amount of time the Vikings appeared to be within one score, rather than their chance to win.

It isn't complicated. If you are down 8, you still go up tempo, just in case the two point conversion farils.

Bigsmooth · 10-11-2010, 11:24 PM

Rexxy is crazy.

bulletsponge · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

god i knew it

MikeVic · 10-11-2010, 11:25 PM

10-11-2010, 10:32 PM	#351
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Just need the kicker to make a mistake one of these times, hopefully this is the time right here baby! slip on your ass, son.. c'mon, goof it Last edited by mauchow : 10-11-2010 at 10:32 PM.

10-11-2010, 10:59 PM	#371
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Man, sometimes Favre just needs to take a little bit off of it. Missed again on a wide open slant. Last edited by mauchow : 10-11-2010 at 10:59 PM.

10-11-2010, 11:25 PM	#400
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	LOL.

10-11-2010, 10:36 PM	#352
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	At least it's looking like a football game again instead of just a Jets Defense only game.

10-11-2010, 10:39 PM	#354
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Do you go for 2 if the Vikes score.

10-11-2010, 10:41 PM	#356
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Boom goes the dynamite.

10-11-2010, 10:42 PM	#357
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I would kick it here. If the Jets score a TD and kick the extra point, you still have the chance to score a TD and go for two to tie. You miss here and a Jets TD ends the game.

10-11-2010, 10:42 PM	#358
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Once Moss stopped playing ib New England, he lost his immunity to offensive pass interference calls.

10-11-2010, 10:42 PM	#359
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Oh, and the Jets D is brutal on short yardage plays. I wouldn't take a chance on going for it.

10-11-2010, 10:42 PM	#360
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	a timeout before an extra point? is chilly taking lessons from wandstead?

10-11-2010, 10:44 PM	#361
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	I'm not the biggest Gregg Easterbrook fan, but he has a point here - Rex Ryan, stop sending blitzes that clear out one entire side on 3rd and 10+

10-11-2010, 10:48 PM	#366
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Kicking an XP is idiotic Troy. They've tried to give the Jets 5 TDs already.

10-11-2010, 10:54 PM	#368
Bigsmooth College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006	Yeah it's official. Sanchez is really playing a shitty game.

10-11-2010, 10:54 PM	#369
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	The Vikings made the right call going for two; no other choice in my opinion. None. You're still within field goal range to win so make the defense actually step it up and stop them before getting into field goal range and win that way.

10-11-2010, 10:57 PM	#370
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	im a huge fan of taking the xtra point, but going for 2 there was the right call

10-11-2010, 11:02 PM	#373
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I think the Vikings may have just missed their best chance to win the game there. Moss has a step and is underthrown then Harvin missed twice where he was wide open. Vikings called the right plays, read the blitz correctly and didn't execute the play. Tough to win on the road when you do that.

10-11-2010, 11:05 PM	#375
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	well obviously they should have taken the xtra point now

10-11-2010, 11:06 PM	#376
Bigsmooth College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006	That drive was beautiful. Championship teams make that drive to put a team away late.

10-11-2010, 11:07 PM	#377
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	If you kick the extra point, you still have a chance in this game. Now you have to have two scores within 4 and a half minutes. I think going for two was done far too early there. Yes, you need the two at some point. But missing early means the game is close to over late. Sanchez had a decent last drive, but really this was about what it's been all night. By the way, Holding on Williams on the last run. The guy had him on the outside of the pads. Easy, obvious call missed.

10-11-2010, 11:08 PM	#378
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Hey, at least Jaws agrees with me.

10-11-2010, 11:10 PM	#379
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	How can you miss that PI call? I mean, seriously. It was obvious in live action, it was obvious on the replay. That's just a horrible job of officiating there.

10-11-2010, 11:10 PM	#380
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Pass Interference????

10-11-2010, 11:12 PM	#381
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Incredible catch. Incredible throw. That was an amazing play.

10-11-2010, 11:15 PM	#383
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	If I'm the Jets, I call a rollout pass here on second down. Vikings are going to be gunning for the run. Third and long is not something you want Sanchez doing. I think you call a pass right here, right now.

10-11-2010, 11:17 PM	#384
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	And the completion. As an aside, if the first down running play gets under 3 yards, I throw on second down again. There is still plenty of time, even with no timeouts. The two minute warning will stop the clock anyway. Throw the ball here.

10-11-2010, 11:18 PM	#385
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Wow, stupid play.

10-11-2010, 11:18 PM	#386
Ironhead College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Barnegat, NJ	Some clock management blunders here.

10-11-2010, 11:18 PM	#387
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Is Les Miles coaching?

10-11-2010, 11:19 PM	#388
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Sanchez makes two horrific throws there. Beyond horrible. Both high, both to wide open WR. Either one ends the game.

10-11-2010, 11:19 PM	#389
Bigsmooth College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006	Unreal. Pretty much a given Favre gets them in FG range?

10-11-2010, 11:20 PM	#392
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	throwing on 2nd down was smart cause the 2 min warning would stop the clock. not snaping the ball till the last second was the stupid thing. snapped to early and threw to fast

10-11-2010, 11:20 PM	#393
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	By the way, when I said throw the ball on second down, it needed to be a rollout that took it to the two minute warning, not a slant pass that uses two seconds off of the clock. Still, the play was there, the QB made a poor throw.

10-11-2010, 11:21 PM	#395
Bigsmooth College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006	I bet we see a pass interference soon...