College Rivalries, and where they come from

[CraigSca]

As part of my annual, "Going insane waiting for NCAA 200X to be released", I've been doing some research into some of the traditional NCAA football rivalries. Living in the northeast/mid-atlantic the majority of my life, I have (obviously) lived away from some of the major rivalries in the nation. I know of them (most of them, anyway), but I know little of why they are so contested.

For instance, last year I went to Salt Lake City for a business trip and learned there that Utah fan absolutely HATE BYU. I had no idea. From what I understand, Utah fans consider BYU fans stuck-up. Recently I picked up a book on the Alabama-Auburn rivalry and in the book it mentioned that Alabama is where the bankers and businessmen come from, while Auburn has always been considered the "farmer" school, at least from the Alabama "elite". Obviously, a natural rivalry.

So...if any of you have an opinion on some other rivalries and where they come from, I'd appreciate it. Something more than the typical "they're in our backyard", as a lot of these games seem to have a lot more riding on them than just proximity.

Thanks!

[HerRealName]

Michigan and Ohio State.

Michigan and Ohio tried to fight a war over Toledo in the early 1800's. Each state sent an army to the Toledo area but the armies couldn't find each other and no shots were fired. If I recall correctly, Congress stepped in and gave Toledo to Ohio making Michigan the winner of the war.

[VPI97]

We tend to hate UVA people because they're all assholes.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Recently I picked up a book on the Alabama-Auburn rivalry and in the book it mentioned that Alabama is where the bankers and businessmen come from, while Auburn has always been considered the "farmer" school, at least from the Alabama "elite". Obviously, a natural rivalry.

I think you'll find most have some variation on this Culture vs. Agriculture theme.

[Franklinnoble]

Arizona State - Arizona

It's mostly geographic. But Tucson (Arizona) has always had an inferiority complex with Phoenix (Arizona State).

Another thing that adds to the rivalry is that ASU generally draws better recruits from So Cal... most of the guys at UA are the in-state kids that were rejected by ASU, so they always have an axe to grind...

[Buzzbee]

As digamma mentioned, culture vs. agriculture tends to come into play a bit in the Georgia Tech vs. Georgia rivalry. Tech, being an engineering school tends to think of itself as being the more intellectual, big city school compared to UGA which is typically veiwed as an agricultural type school. There is the natural disdain because of proximity, but there is also a history simply because they have being playing for so long (this year will be the 100th meeting in football).

I'm not sure if the Alabama-Auburn book you mentioned was by Bill Cromartie, but if it was you might be interested in the book "Clean old-fashioned hate" which he wrote.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&st=books

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

I'm not sure if the Alabama-Auburn book you mentioned was by Bill Cromartie, but if it was you might be interested in the book "Clean old-fashioned hate" which he wrote.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&st=books

Thanks - the book I got was by Ivan Maisel.

[Chas in Cinti]

Originally Posted by digamma

I think you'll find most have some variation on this Culture vs. Agriculture theme.

Indiana and Purdue share this theme. Purdue is the Agro school in this scenario...

-Chas
IU, Class of '96

[Wolfpack]

State-Carolina is another Land Grant Ag-and-Tech vs. Limp-wristed, wine-and-brie, stuck-up, my-parents-bought-me-everything school rivalry. You can kinda guess which one I graduated from.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

State-Carolina is another Land Grant Ag-and-Tech vs. Limp-wristed, wine-and-brie, stuck-up, my-parents-bought-me-everything school rivalry. You can kinda guess which one I graduated from.

So, what kind of wine you like?

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by VPI97

We tend to hate UVA people because they're all assholes.

I went to a Penn State game at UVA. The cool thing to do is to get dressed up in a shirt and tie. Whenever they get a first down (which I think is Auld Lang Syne) they put their arms around each other and sway back and forth like they are singing kumbaya. The whole experience made me feel like I had been castrated.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Chas in Cinti

Indiana and Purdue share this theme. Purdue is the Agro school in this scenario...

-Chas
IU, Class of '96

Probably so. Thank goodness things have turned around.

-NM
Purdue, MFA '03

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

So, what kind of wine you like?

Shut up, you!

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

If I recall correctly, Congress stepped in and gave Toledo to Ohio making Michigan the winner of the war.

That is what I was thinking.

Toledo = Detroit South

[dawgfan]

Doesn't get much more big-city vs. small town agri-school than Washington & Washington State. The state itself has a dual personality, with the Cascade Mountains providing a natural dividing line between the wet, mild weather, water-dominated, generally liberal west side with the urban centers, relatively high population density, Microsoft, Boeing & Starbucks vs. the hot in summer, cold in winter, mostly arid, inland and generally conservative east side with the heavy dependence on agri-business (wheat, apples, vinyards, hops).

One school (Washington) is located in the western half in Seattle, the biggest city in the state and the center of all things urban and cultured in the state, while the other (Washington State) is in the extreme eastern edge of the state (just a few miles from Idaho) in a small town called Pullman in the middle of wheat farming land.

Washington developed into one of the leading research universities in the country and one of the top public universities, while Washington State's strong work in agriculture has helped put Washington in the forefront of fruit and wine production, and has developed a strong broadcasting school (Edward R. Murrow, Keith Jackson being notables).

The nature of the rivalry has taken on a big-brother/little-brother tone as well, as Washington has a strong edge both in the rivalry and in general football success. That, combined with the extreme contrasts in location and style, make it one of the most clearly deliniated rivalries in all of the country.

[MrBug708]

UCLA and USC have a variety of dislikes for each other. USC seems to be the elitest culture of being a private school and UCLA is the state school. The only problem? The state school has a better overall academic program (though the gap is nearly gone) and both share the same city. USC is the football school while UCLA is THE Basketball program. USC was also THE program in Track and Baseball, but that was back before anyone here was alive, but they still have good programs.

It's a whole climate and it's very complicated because you always work in an office with people who went to one school or the other or even both.

They do fight over this stupid bell called the victory bell but it only gets handed over after a football win and it's changed hands once since 1992 so it's lost a lot of luster.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I tried to get a rivalry going between New Orleans and Nicholls State, but I only know one person who went to NSU, and he didn't even graduate. Then I tried to get a rivalry going between New Orleans and Delgado, but then I remembered that Delgado is a community college. I went on to try to start a rivalry between New Orleans and Southeastern Louisiana, and things were going pretty well when I attended a women's basketball game between the two teams, but by the end of the game, so many SLU players had fouled out that they had to finish the game with only four players on the floor, and one of them had four fouls. A rivalry just wouldn't be fair to SLU or to the 40 UNO fans who were at the game, so I just called it quits.

-PT
UNO, Class of '02

[Radii]

The Georgia Tech/UGA rivalry would be better, but your average UGA student(much less your average UGA fan) can't read all the bad things the Tech fans write about them, so it kind of dampens things a bit.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

State-Carolina is another Land Grant Ag-and-Tech vs. Limp-wristed, wine-and-brie, stuck-up, my-parents-bought-me-everything school rivalry. You can kinda guess which one I graduated from.

Classic NC State nonsense. The funny thing is, NC State has a major inferiority complex regarding North Carolina. But I don't know many UNC fans who even think we have a rivalry with State, our rivalry is with Duke. But NC State continues to play their part in the non-existent rivalry.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I went on to try to start a rivalry between New Orleans and Southeastern Louisiana, and things were going pretty well when I attended a women's basketball game between the two teams, but by the end of the game, so many SLU players had fouled out that they had to finish the game with only four players on the floor, and one of them had four fouls. A rivalry just wouldn't be fair to SLU or to the 40 UNO fans who were at the game, so I just called it quits.

Dude, I think I was at that game. But come on, you know we hate UL Lafayette most of all! That's a "redneck vs. sin-filled freak city" dynamic. Although UNO not having any fans lessens the rivalry somewhat.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Dude, I think I was at that game. But come on, you know we hate UL Lafayette most of all! That's a "redneck vs. sin-filled freak city" dynamic. Although UNO not having any fans lessens the rivalry somewhat.

I hate the Cajuns just because we can't ever seem to beat them when it counts.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by VPI97

We tend to hate UVA people because they're all assholes.

Ditto for how William and Mary feels about UVA.

[scooper]

Notre Dame and USC made no sense, especially considering the travel restrictions in the 1920's. But Mrs. Rockne wanted to visit Cali, and Knute and USC's AD thought the exposure would be good for both schools and the rivaly was born.

The rivaly has no obvious roots in geography, though the clash in style and image has always lended some heat to the contest. But the biggest reason this rivalry has flourished is success. While both schools have had their ups and downs (USC's 10 years before Carroll were worse than ND's last decade, FWIW), this series pits two of the winningest programs in history. No combined rivalry offers more national champions, Heisman winners or all-Americans. There have been a few seasons where both teams were national title contenders, with the winner essentially earning the spot.

[scooper]

The University of Cincinnati and Miami University played the first college football game in Ohio in 1888. The rivalry is the oldest west of the Alleghany Mountains. It's the fifth most played game of all time. They play for a travelling trophy-the Victory Bell, which is painted on opposite sides in the teams's respective colors and logos with their victories in the series listed. The schools are roughly 45 minutes apart.

[wade moore]

William and Mary vs. University of Richmond (a real rivalry only UVA vs. W&M) fits in that same mold. Called the "Oldest Rivalry in the South".. We have played 114 times.. I do not know where that ranks in total, but I think it is probably in the top 5...

[General Mike]

Syracuse University is full of douchebags.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Classic NC State nonsense. The funny thing is, NC State has a major inferiority complex regarding North Carolina. But I don't know many UNC fans who even think we have a rivalry with State, our rivalry is with Duke. But NC State continues to play their part in the non-existent rivalry.

Bite me, Hole-boy!

Yes, UNC likes to think of Duke as their rival, but that's only been in the last 15 years or so, with the rise of K and his national champ teams in basketball. Before that, even in basketball, it was always State-Carolina. And yes, I do think we have to some extent an inferiority complex. The 1990s when State was sucking it up in basketball and from about 1994-1997 in football, combined with Smack Brownie's "powerhouses" in football at the same time K's run of titles in 91 and 92 and then UNC in 93, allowing Dick Vitale to suck the air out of any other building in the country for the rest of the decade with Duke/UNC talk have not helped matters at all.

Honestly, in any other sport outside basketball, who does UNC look to scrap with more, State or Duke? (Yes, football is the only other one most people care about, but even so....)

And, if you want to get really picky about rivals, we can turn around and say we have a better rivalry with Florida State than you in football.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Yes, UNC likes to think of Duke as their rival, but that's only been in the last 15 years or so, with the rise of K and his national champ teams in basketball. Before that, even in basketball, it was always State-Carolina. And yes, I do think we have to some extent an inferiority complex.

I have no stake in this argument, but I think that sells the Duke-Carolina rivalry a bit short. What about the brawl in the 1960s? The slow down game against Gminski and Spanarkel? Eight points in 17 seconds? The "Lebo likes boys" chants of the 1980s?

The rivalry may have moved to a different level in the 90s when State was down, but Duke and Carolina have hated each other for a while.

[CraigSca]

Great read guys - living in other parts of the country doesn't get me exposed to this stuff. Had no idea that Georgia is considered a hick school, that UVA fans are uh...jerks , and I had no idea the UNC would even have a rival in football.

I know MD has a semi-rivalry with West Virginia, but frankly the program hasn't been good enough, long enough to really form a great rivalry. I'm glad they're playing Navy this year, even though I'm afraid they may lose .

Only teams I've always disliked were Penn State (at the top of my list) - those "If God isn't a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue?" bumper stickers make me throw up in my mouth - and Syracuse.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Radii

The Georgia Tech/UGA rivalry would be better, but your average UGA student(much less your average UGA fan) can't read all the bad things the Tech fans write about them, so it kind of dampens things a bit.

Those are fighting words! You better be prepared to sleep on the couch tonight!!!!

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I hate the Cajuns just because we can't ever seem to beat them when it counts.

As an LSU alum/fan I don't like SLI, excuse me USL, excuse me ULALA, because they are a small school with supporters that have lots of big penis envy and delusions that they are greater than they are(institutionally, academically, and athletically). Its a shame too, because I know a lot of great people that went there and go there today, but it seems like today it has become a university lifejacket for those west of the Atchafalaya who want to feel better about themselves(compared to anyone else anywhere else in the state.)

Its their regional University, so they should be proud of it, but don't pretend that it is any more than it is right now, a regional University.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by digamma

I have no stake in this argument, but I think that sells the Duke-Carolina rivalry a bit short. What about the brawl in the 1960s? The slow down game against Gminski and Spanarkel? Eight points in 17 seconds? The "Lebo likes boys" chants of the 1980s?

The rivalry may have moved to a different level in the 90s when State was down, but Duke and Carolina have hated each other for a while.

Fair points, but among the locals in North Carolina, it has always been UNC-State, particularly from the league's formation to about 1990. UNC fans outnumber everybody in NC, while State is usually second choice. Duke and Wake are distant trailers in terms of in-state support, perhaps reflecting a bias against Duke, which is seen as packed with Yankee invaders who couldn't afford to go to a northeastern private school.

Duke has been good in stretches under Vic Bubas and Foster in the 60s and 70s, but State had Case, Press Maravich for a year, then Sloan, followed by Jimmy V, while the Evil Empire was being run by Dean. It was only under K's leadership that Duke has achieved the year-in-year-out prominence that Carolina and State both achieved for a good long while. It really took a lot to devolve State from that standing (even with all our suffering, we still rank something like 22nd in wins or win percentage all-time or something like that). As noted before, it didn't help that Duke came up the same time State was busy burning everything down and in that time ESPN would become the pre-eminent sports programming entity. Duke-Carolina made ESPN, but at the same time, ESPN made Duke-Carolina. If State hadn't imploded, I think State-Carolina would have been up there (especially if V was still coaching, or someone like him who had a personality that TV absolutely loves).

[Wolfpack]

As an NC State alum/fan I don't like ECTC, excuse me ECU, because they are a small school with supporters that have lots of big penis envy and delusions that they are greater than they are(institutionally, academically, and athletically). Its a shame too, because I know a lot of great people that went there and go there today, but it seems like today it has become a university lifejacket for those east of I-95 who want to feel better about themselves(compared to anyone else anywhere else in the state.)

Its their regional University, so they should be proud of it, but don't pretend that it is any more than it is right now, a regional University.

It's eerie how similar this could be applied to a school in my home state.

Anyone else have these "little brother"-type things where the prominent state institution(s) are poked and prodded by a smaller state campus with delusions of grandeur?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Radii

The Georgia Tech/UGA rivalry would be better, but your average UGA student(much less your average UGA fan) can't read all the bad things the Tech fans write about them, so it kind of dampens things a bit.

That's ok... they make up for it by kicking the stuffing out of Tech .

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That's ok... they make up for it by kicking the stuffing out of Tech .

I'm sorree, but yankeez arnt aloud ta cheer for UGA. Pleez take yer yankee transplantid ass back north uv tha mayson dickson line. Heheheh. I said dick. Heh. Ownlee sutherners kin cheer fer tha bulldawgs.

yers trulee,
Hairy Dawg

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

They do fight over this stupid bell called the victory bell but it only gets handed over after a football win and it's changed hands once since 1992 so it's lost a lot of luster.

So you admit that UCLA doesn't care anymore? They are giving up?

[sterlingice]

Kansas-Missouri goes all the way back to the free state-slave state thing but I'm not sure that's still a valid excuse. I bet if you asked each student body, more than 50% wouldn't know which was the slave state and which was the free state.

Kansas-Kansas State is definitely one of those snobs vs ag school ones. We're the gay, pot smoking, rich, gay, hippie, elitist, and did we mention gay school to their animal screwing, inbred, corn growing student body to the west.

SI

[st.cronin]

Minnesota-Wisconsin have played more football games than any other rivalry. They have a very silly trophy they play for.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by VPI97

We tend to hate UVA people because they're all assholes.

All dirt roads lead to Tech.

[mrsimperless]

Living in Indianapolis, the Purdue - Notre Dame rivalry has far surpassed the Purdue - IU rivalry IMO. The latter just doesn't seem to be a game anymore, as the IU program has been a joke for years now. Granted, they do turn it up a notch for the old oaken bucket game sometimes, but it's just not the same.

[DeToxRox]

Best legend of Michigan/Ohio State

OSU legend Woody Hayes hated Michigan so much that when his car broke down near the Ohio border, Woody decided to push his car into Ohio rather then spend any of his money in Michigan getting it fixed.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Best legend of Michigan/Ohio State

OSU legend Woody Hayes hated Michigan so much that when his car broke down near the Ohio border, Woody decided to push his car into Ohio rather then spend any of his money in Michigan getting it fixed.

Bo Schembechler tells this story: In 1968, Bump Elliott's last year as Michigan head coach, Ohio State is winning the final game of the year 48-14 when Woody goes for 2 to make it an even 50.

The next year, Michigan's new head coach is a former assistant of Woody Hayes' named Bo Schembechler. Before the first game of the year Bo puts up the number 50 everywhere and anywhere the eye can see all around the locker-room and elsewhere. The final game of the year Woody Hayes is looking at an undefeated season when Michigan puts the first and only L on them ruining a perfect season.

Years later, at an awards ceremony Bo is at the podium and mentions something about that game when Woody, seated along the head table, erupts in anger with veins bulging shouting out "Damn you Bo! You'll never beat a better team!" This is hands down the hottest rivalry in football.

[Izulde]

Minnesota-Wisconsin has always had major bad blood going. I'm from Wisconsin and went to Minnesota for a year. The rivalry was so vicious and heated that for orientation they gave us free T-shirts that said "Friends Don't Let Friends Attend The University of Wisconsin."

Where exactly it stems from, I'm not sure. Maybe because they were both really heavy logging states back in the day and were contesting each for the biggest lumber producer way back when? Geography has something to do with it as well, since the Missippi divides us.

The student populations don't differ much, though. They're both left-leaning, potsmoking party campuses.

Wyoming, where I may end up going to next fall, has a big rivalry with Colorado State. Coming out of high school when I visited the campus, my guide was talking about the football program and how the stadium's high altitude causes trouble for visiting teams who aren't used to that altitude.

"So who's your biggest rival?" I asked him.

He spit on the ground and said, "Fucking Colorado State. We hate those bastards and want to kick their asses every year."

I never did find out the source of the rivalry, though.