Straight from the Puresim Forum.

dickysty · 07-01-2006, 12:29 PM

Interesting Read I would Say.

Well, gather round boys and girls and I'll tell ya a little story about the way things went down and why they are the way they are. Believe it, don't believe, don't matter to me. This is for the historical record. I'll post here once, I will not post again.

BACK BEFORE DOGS WERE INVENTED ..

There was a game called FPSBBPRO98. Shaun wrote killer utilities for it. Fabulous utilities. This was the end all game, basically, for the mainstream crowd of sim baseball.

So, Shaun decided, in his spare time, from the Southeastern portion of the US (and we'll leave that obscure) .. that he would .. try. Try to make a game.

Now, about this time, along comes TWO fellas .. one from Tennessee .. Steve .. and one from GERMANY, Markus.

I was in the position to know all of this because I was The General Manager of a Sports Network of sites that numbered about 250 for the sixth largest Internet company in the world. So, both these individuals were supported by me, giving them a lot of press. *I*, personally, took an interest in both these games. In an interview, back before Columbus landed in The Bahamas, I actually got Shaun to commit to a date of release. It was merely rumours before then and betas. This was the first time he actually mentioned a release of a full version.

The same time, Markus (which changes from 'k' to 'c' on occassion, can't figure out why) .. was after me to take a look at his game. So, I did.

I told him: Here's the deal ..

You're gonna make your money off of MULTIPLAYER. Leagues that can play the game. You'll get 30 buys a pop. So, he says "How do I do this?" and we go in to this 3 month .. thing .. of me sending ideas and him sending me a build and I say "No .. no ..no ..like this." The reason I was so well versed in this was that I ran a legendary league on the web that involved the Lead Designer of FPSBBPRO98 and many members of Sierra's team and also the Sports Editor of PC Gamer, TONS of gaming press members, The Ultimate Big Stakes Ego League .. The King of All Leagues of All Time. It was unreal, the competition. Simply unreal. OOTP's Multiplayer was derived DIRECTLY FROM THIS LEAGUE. Every league that uses OOTP uses this league as their prototype because THAT'S what it was designed around. All we were ALL trying to do, the Sierra guys, the guys from other companies that played there, the gaming press guys, EVERYBODY ... all we were trying to do was make a better baseball game to play our league with. And we got this schmuck in Germany to code it for us so we didn't have to do it.

This legendary league was known simply as: "Sundown".

We were also the very first to use Brian's basketball engine, FastBreak, for an online league and was instrumental in his programming. That's another story.

So, if you look closely at the manual to OOTP3, you'll see that I was credited with the design of the on-line portion of OOTP. Not entirely true. I advised with all the other people, some which were part of the design team of FPSBBPRO98 (and other games). It was a lot of time involved.

Meanwhile, and I still have the e-mail, Shaun, I told Shaun the same thing and Shaun said, quote: "I could never foresee the day that PureSim is an on-line experience". I still liked PureSim more and I believe it to be a FAR, FAR superior simulation of baseball.

Why?

Because I was on the INSIDE when both these games were being birthed.

Why is OOTP all screwed up and ALWAYS WILL BE? Because it's not soccer.

Think what you want of Markus, and I love the guy myself, but .. I saw it time and again .. you can't grow up in a place where there is no baseball and then make a game that simulates it.

Shaun played baseball. Shaun is an American. What do you want me to tell you? You want me to lie and tell you the politically correct thing? Sorry, it's not the facts. OOTP will never be "right". There will always be something intristically "wrong" with it and it is very hard to put your finger on it. When these games were first being made .. I saw it. Markus just never "got" it. And there's no way to rewind his life and put him in a Little League uniform and understand what a squeeze play is. You can't read it and learn it. The subtelty that is baseball has to lived, day in and day out, watching 140 Braves games a year (sorry, Shaun) for 35 years. That subtelty soaks through and that's what you see in "PureSim".

Now, why is OOTP so much bigger and more active? MULTIPLAYER. Markus got the leagues when they were changing from FPSBBPRO98 and all the people who thought all the people running those leagues were idiots and they could do it better and it grew. TIMES 30. TIMES 30 again. AND .. don't discount that Steve was a VERY SMART COOKIE. He played the press well and was a great "face" stateside for OOTP. Shaun had.... his kids (who have to be close to graduating now). It was just Shaun.

When I was in a position to, I helped both these games with extensive press coverage .. and got Smoke to do it to in print .. we both did.

One went one way.

The other took the long way home.

.. and I wouldn't buy OOTP ON A BET ..

It ain't even close.

And it never will be.

This ain't soccer.

Sorry if that's politically incorrect.

It's just the way it is.

End of storytime.

Have a nice life.

Shaun Sullivan · 07-01-2006, 12:38 PM

To be clear, I had nothing to do with that message. In fact I can barely follow it.

- Shaun

SackAttack · 07-01-2006, 12:38 PM

Dollars to donuts that man is Dave Dial.

MizzouRah · 07-01-2006, 12:41 PM

*Yawn*

Sounds like someone with an agenda to me. Who cares? I really like ootp 6.51 and that's all that matters to me. This guy is full of himself isn't he?

Young Drachma · 07-01-2006, 12:42 PM

This saga is starting to become like the Star Jones v. The View mess. Only worse, because its just a bunch of dorks trying to stir up crap.

Easy Mac · 07-01-2006, 12:43 PM

i think i saw that same post on this board like 2 years ago. someone search

st.cronin · 07-01-2006, 12:44 PM

Dogs were invented?

Easy Mac · 07-01-2006, 12:45 PM

seems so

hxxp://www.tarazet.com/mt/archives/000130.html

DanGarion · 07-01-2006, 12:46 PM

stop causing problems

JonInMiddleGA · 07-01-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Dollars to donuts that man is Dave Dial.

Good catch.
A quick Google turned up one reference to the "Sundown League"

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/Cyclones/Listings.html
Sundown Baseball League (SBL)
Commissioner: Dave Dial

We have been in existence since 1997. Always considered a bastion for elite players of fantasy baseball, we have counted among our members Doug Johnson, Lead Developer of FPS:BBPRO98 for several years, many, many Dynamix game developers, Jeff Downey, owner of Operation Sports, Paul Rosano, Assistant Sports Editor at The Hartford Courant and widely published internet sports game reviewer, etc. Also, the league was founded by Rob Smolka, Senior Editor at PC Gamer and sports columnist of that publication and the General Manager of the old GA Sports Network, which at the time was the largest sports network of gaming sites in the world. Most of the original core owners from 1997 remain. We currently use the OOTP3 engine and have just reformatted the league for this engine. We are in our third week of competition with OOTP though in our tenth season of existence..

DanGarion · 07-01-2006, 12:50 PM

According to an old post he says his name is Richard "Dick" St**

Swaggs · 07-01-2006, 12:50 PM

The Earth revolves around Dave Dial.

SackAttack · 07-01-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Good catch.
A quick Google turned up one reference to the "Sundown League"

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/Cyclones/Listings.html
Sundown Baseball League (SBL)
Commissioner: Dave Dial

We have been in existence since 1997. Always considered a bastion for elite players of fantasy baseball, we have counted among our members Doug Johnson, Lead Developer of FPS:BBPRO98 for several years, many, many Dynamix game developers, Jeff Downey, owner of Operation Sports, Paul Rosano, Assistant Sports Editor at The Hartford Courant and widely published internet sports game reviewer, etc. Also, the league was founded by Rob Smolka, Senior Editor at PC Gamer and sports columnist of that publication and the General Manager of the old GA Sports Network, which at the time was the largest sports network of gaming sites in the world. Most of the original core owners from 1997 remain. We currently use the OOTP3 engine and have just reformatted the league for this engine. We are in our third week of competition with OOTP though in our tenth season of existence..

Sundown was a tipoff, Jon, but not the only one.

Remember, I used to work with Tony and Dave at GA-Sports. I remember the backstabbing that went on with Dave getting Tony fired and taking his job as GM. I remember that he ran Sundown.

Maybe most importantly, I remember his mannerisms of..."speech" isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. I know how he converses via the internet, and that little diatribe up there just screams of Dave Dial, even if he hadn't mentioned the Sundown league. That was just the most obvious tip-off.

Franklinnoble · 07-01-2006, 12:54 PM

You know what multiplayer games need? Integrated updates. I hate having to manually e-mail or FTP or web upload an update file. Why can't I just log into my league from within the game, take my turn, and hit a "finish turn" button that sends the update into the ether somewhere for me?

Draft Dodger · 07-01-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickysty

Think what you want of Markus, and I love the guy myself, but .. I saw it time and again .. you can't grow up in a place where there is no baseball and then make a game that simulates it.

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

Schmidty · 07-01-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

st.cronin · 07-01-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

brilliant!

DanGarion · 07-01-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

Quote of the day!!!!

Franklinnoble · 07-01-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

Unfortunately, there just isn't a decent elvish compiler on the market...

twothree · 07-01-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickysty

End of storytime.

Have a nice life.

Now hold on a minute.

*puts on wizard's hat*

*summons rhino*

Wana cyber?

Dutch · 07-01-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

*crack*

"No question about that one. It's a homer to the seats in left!"

Dutch · 07-01-2006, 01:24 PM

Of course, when it's all said and done, I'm playing Tony LaRussa 3...errr....Baseball Mogul 2007.

Raiders Army · 07-01-2006, 01:59 PM

Man, Dave Dial's name hasn't been mentioned in a while...ah, the memories...

Glengoyne · 07-01-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

*Yawn*

Sounds like someone with an agenda to me. Who cares? I really like ootp 6.51 and that's all that matters to me. This guy is full of himself isn't he?

An agenda, and an incredibly big head.

That said. Why have I heard of Dave Dial?

Barkeep49 · 07-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

An agenda, and an incredibly big head.

That said. Why have I heard of Dave Dial?

We need a board wiki to answer questions like this. And what a dola is. And what cocky and funny is, etc

DanGarion · 07-01-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

We need a board wiki to answer questions like this. And what a dola is. And what cocky and funny is, etc

I could make one. If someone wants...

Dutch · 07-01-2006, 02:39 PM

wiki - Front Office Football Central. Needs to be done.

Buccaneer · 07-01-2006, 03:01 PM

I stopped reading that piece of garbage about halfway through. I know Dialgate was several years ago but even if this was written a couple of years ago, he hasn't gotten any less retarded.

Barkeep49 · 07-01-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

wiki - Front Office Football Central. Needs to be done.

I brought it up, since at this point I think it might be more useful then the reference thread considering how much info is in there already.

Flasch186 · 07-01-2006, 03:24 PM

lightning bolt

Vince · 07-01-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

this is why I have vowed to NEVER play another RPG until one comes out that is written by gnomes or elves.

This is the best single post I've read in months.

Passacaglia · 07-01-2006, 04:58 PM

I know this is obvious to all, but it needs to be said: I can't believe that he doesn't mention a damn thing about either game, but still tells which one is better, without question.

Marc Duffy · 07-01-2006, 05:06 PM

Next you'll be telling me that you coded all these games, you are the master and that you deserve royalties on all game sales?

There is room for Puresim and OOTP in the marketplace, those guys (Shaun and Markus) have put an incredible amount of time and dedication into their work. It matters not where they were born, where they were raised ... whats important is that their games are playable and enjoyable.

Shaun Sullivan · 07-01-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

There is room for Puresim and OOTP in the marketplace, those guys (Shaun and Markus) have put an incredible amount of time and dedication into their work. It matters not where they were born, where they were raised ... whats important is that their games are playable and enjoyable.

Agreed, lets move on -- I don't like the tone of the original post one bit.

VPI97 · 07-01-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickysty

Stuff

STFU, jackass.

Bearcat729 · 07-01-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickysty

The other took the long way home.

.. and I wouldn't buy OOTP ON A BET ..

It ain't even close.

ScottVib · 07-01-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twothree

Now hold on a minute.

*puts on wizard's hat*

*summons rhino*

Wana cyber?

There is nothing more serious then a rhino about to charge your ass.

spleen1015 · 07-02-2006, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottVib

There is nothing more serious then a rhino about to charge your ass.

What about a Fritz that's about to charge your ass?

johneh · 07-02-2006, 09:49 AM

Maybe Sportsdigs will set up an exclusive interview with this guy.... they do seem to have all the breaking news before everyone else

Celeval · 07-02-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

You know what multiplayer games need? Integrated updates. I hate having to manually e-mail or FTP or web upload an update file. Why can't I just log into my league from within the game, take my turn, and hit a "finish turn" button that sends the update into the ether somewhere for me?

For the sake of saying so... didn't OOTP have this? It was still FTP, and the commish had to have things set up in a particular way, but you could just jump to a section and hit "FTP File to Server" or some such.

astrosfan64 · 07-02-2006, 10:55 AM

Ok, I'll bite. Who or what is Dave Dial? What did he do that makes him so infamous? I think I heard the name before, but I must admit I can't place the drama associated with him.

Honolulu_Blue · 07-02-2006, 11:06 AM

Well, I went ahead and took the plunge. I figured $15 was worth taking a flier on the game.

WVUFAN · 07-02-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

We need a board wiki to answer questions like this. And what a dola is. And what cocky and funny is, etc

What's a dola?

WVUFAN · 07-02-2006, 11:19 AM

dola -- I know a dwarf. He's funny.

Franklinnoble · 07-02-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johneh

Maybe Sportsdigs will set up an exclusive interview with this guy.... they do seem to have all the breaking news before everyone else

Do I even know you?

SackAttack · 07-02-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Do I even know you?

Please stop causing problems.

07-01-2006, 12:42 PM	#5
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	This saga is starting to become like the Star Jones v. The View mess. Only worse, because its just a bunch of dorks trying to stir up crap. __________________ Current dynasty: OOTP25 Blitz: RTS meets Moneyball \| OOTP Mod: GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

07-01-2006, 12:44 PM	#7
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Dogs were invented? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-01-2006, 12:46 PM	#9
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	stop causing problems __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

07-01-2006, 12:50 PM	#11
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	According to an old post he says his name is Richard "Dick" St** __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

07-01-2006, 12:50 PM	#12
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	The Earth revolves around Dave Dial. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-01-2006, 12:38 PM	#2
Shaun Sullivan PureSim Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mount Pleasant, SC	To be clear, I had nothing to do with that message. In fact I can barely follow it. - Shaun

07-01-2006, 12:38 PM	#3
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Dollars to donuts that man is Dave Dial.

07-01-2006, 12:41 PM	#4
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Yawn Sounds like someone with an agenda to me. Who cares? I really like ootp 6.51 and that's all that matters to me. This guy is full of himself isn't he?

07-01-2006, 12:43 PM	#6
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	i think i saw that same post on this board like 2 years ago. someone search

07-01-2006, 12:45 PM	#8
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	seems so hxxp://www.tarazet.com/mt/archives/000130.html

07-01-2006, 12:54 PM	#14
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	You know what multiplayer games need? Integrated updates. I hate having to manually e-mail or FTP or web upload an update file. Why can't I just log into my league from within the game, take my turn, and hit a "finish turn" button that sends the update into the ether somewhere for me?

07-01-2006, 01:24 PM	#22
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Of course, when it's all said and done, I'm playing Tony LaRussa 3...errr....Baseball Mogul 2007.

07-01-2006, 01:59 PM	#23
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Man, Dave Dial's name hasn't been mentioned in a while...ah, the memories...

07-01-2006, 02:39 PM	#27
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	wiki - Front Office Football Central. Needs to be done.

07-01-2006, 03:01 PM	#28
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I stopped reading that piece of garbage about halfway through. I know Dialgate was several years ago but even if this was written a couple of years ago, he hasn't gotten any less retarded.

07-01-2006, 03:24 PM	#30
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	lightning bolt __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

07-01-2006, 04:58 PM	#32
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I know this is obvious to all, but it needs to be said: I can't believe that he doesn't mention a damn thing about either game, but still tells which one is better, without question.

07-01-2006, 05:06 PM	#33
Marc Duffy SI Games Join Date: Oct 2005	Next you'll be telling me that you coded all these games, you are the master and that you deserve royalties on all game sales? There is room for Puresim and OOTP in the marketplace, those guys (Shaun and Markus) have put an incredible amount of time and dedication into their work. It matters not where they were born, where they were raised ... whats important is that their games are playable and enjoyable.

07-02-2006, 09:49 AM	#39
johneh Mascot Join Date: Jul 2004	Maybe Sportsdigs will set up an exclusive interview with this guy.... they do seem to have all the breaking news before everyone else

07-02-2006, 10:55 AM	#41
astrosfan64 College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2004	Ok, I'll bite. Who or what is Dave Dial? What did he do that makes him so infamous? I think I heard the name before, but I must admit I can't place the drama associated with him.

07-02-2006, 11:06 AM	#42
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Well, I went ahead and took the plunge. I figured $15 was worth taking a flier on the game. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

07-02-2006, 11:19 AM	#44
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	dola -- I know a dwarf. He's funny. __________________

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)