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Old 12-04-2020, 12:33 PM   #501
Edward64
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Originally Posted by Comey View Post
It doesn't add another stimulus check, which is a surprise.

True, does have extended unemployment so that helps.

Does anyone know what's in the proposed funding for schools/education? Don't think it's raises but maybe more ipads etc. for remote learning?

COVID-19 stimulus: Trump holds back on $908 billion compromise deal - Business Insider
Quote:
The two bills have some key differences:

The $908 billion stimulus package proposes support for small businesses, state and local governments, and schools, as well as funding for unemployment insurance, healthcare, and distribution of a COVID-19 vaccine.

McConnell's package is said to omit federal unemployment benefits but has provisions for education funding, small-business aid, and pandemic-related liability protections for businesses.

Neither bill includes another round of $1,200 checks, a popular measure from the pandemic stimulus law enacted in the spring.
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Old 12-04-2020, 12:57 PM   #502
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I'm glad to see the news about Fauci. The man deserves something for the work he put in this year in the face of Trump.
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:54 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
True, does have extended unemployment so that helps.

Does anyone know what's in the proposed funding for schools/education? Don't think it's raises but maybe more ipads etc. for remote learning?

COVID-19 stimulus: Trump holds back on $908 billion compromise deal - Business Insider

Maybe John Delany's proposal will get traction:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/1500...ould-work.html
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:18 PM   #504
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Maybe John Delany's proposal will get traction:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/1500...ould-work.html

"creating the incentive (e.g. checks) to get vaccinated".

If someone is in a group that is up for vaccination, and that person doesn't want to be vaccinated ... my take is that person goes to the back of the line.

According to Nov 17 Gallup poll, 58% would take it (an increase from a Sep poll where it was 50%). Dems are at 69% and Reps/Ind are at 49%.

Once everyone is vaccinated that wants to be vaccinated and enough time has passed, then tell those that get sick (the 42% unvaccinated) that treatment is no longer free.

FWIW, I think the poll understates willingness to take the vaccine. It should have asked are you willing to take it in the first month, second month etc. I bet many of the 42% unwilling would show up in the second or third month after they see there is no zombie apocalypse.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/325208/...d-vaccine.aspx
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:48 PM   #505
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Supposedly a breakthrough in Quantum computing and also planting a flag on the moon.

Biden, I sure hope you take the China threat seriously vs

Quote:
In 2016, he talked of hearing in the 1980s how “Japan was going to eat our lunch. . . . C’mon, man!” A few months ago, he played down the geopolitical threat posed by China. “China’s going to eat our lunch?” he asked a crowd in Iowa City. “C’mon, man!”

China is not Japan. And China has far surpassed Japan by now. Forget Russia, China is the #1 external threat to us (thanks Nixon & Kissinger).

Last edited by Edward64 : 12-04-2020 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:25 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
Maybe John Delany's proposal will get traction:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/1500...ould-work.html

While a seemingly good idea, I wonder how it would hold up constitutionally.
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:28 PM   #507
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While a seemingly good idea, I wonder how it would hold up constitutionally.

What's your reasoning?
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:40 PM   #508
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What's your reasoning?

6-3 conservative SCOTUS.
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Old 12-04-2020, 06:13 PM   #509
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While a seemingly good idea, I wonder how it would hold up constitutionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
6-3 conservative SCOTUS.

Quite honestly, isn't this similar logic to a clinical trial where people are reimbursed, but here you are incentivizing people to get vaccinated. It is still a choice though, not sure how the SCOTUS would intervene to strike it down.
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Old 12-04-2020, 07:35 PM   #510
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What's your reasoning?

Guessing anti-vaxxers and religious folks would claim it discriminates against them. The ACA arguments will probably be similar here.

Republicans have been more or less pro-virus and I don't see any reason to believe the courts would turn against them.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:02 AM   #511
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I'm sure many republicans will be encouraged to not take the vaccine so that Biden has to deal with Covid his entire term. It's under 50% nationally among republicans.
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Old 12-05-2020, 05:02 PM   #512
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A WP analysis on the demographics. Sorry, it's behind a paywall but I think one of the better breakout. It compares how Biden did vs Hillary and how Trump did in 2020 vs 2016.

It's pretty long so I'll summarize the graphics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ges-2016-2020/
  1. Independents. Biden +12, Trump -5
  2. ---
  3. Non-white. Biden -3, Trump +5
  4. Black. Biden -3, Trump +6
  5. Latino. Biden -1, Trump +4
  6. Asian. Biden -4, Trump +7
  7. ---
  8. Catholics. Biden +6, Trump -3
  9. Protestant/Other Christian. Biden +0, Trump +4
  10. No Religion. Biden -2, Trump +6
  11. White Evangelicals. Biden +8, Trump -4
  12. ---
  13. Males. Biden +4, Trump +1
  14. Women. Biden +3, Trump +1
  15. ---
  16. 18-29. Biden +5, Trump +0
  17. 30-44. Biden +1, Trump +5
  18. 45-64. Biden +5, Trump -2
  19. 65+. Biden +2, Trump +0
  20. ---
  21. Black Men. Biden -3, Trump +6
  22. Black Women. Biden -4, Trump +5
  23. Hispanic/Latino Men. Biden -4, Trump +4
  24. Hispanic/Latino Women. Biden +0, Trump +5
  25. ---
  26. College Graduates. Biden +3, Trump +1
  27. Some college or less. Biden +4, Trump -1
  28. ---
  29. Under $50K. Biden +2, Trump +3
  30. $50K - $100K. Biden +11, Trump -7
  31. $100K+. Biden -5, Trump +7

Last edited by Edward64 : 12-05-2020 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 12-05-2020, 05:17 PM   #513
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Trump made gains on (1) key minority blocks (2) increased the #17. 30-44 group only and (3) Trump increased the #31. $100K+.

I understand #31.

Puzzled about #17, it would seem they would fall in the #30. $50K - $100K group which went to Biden.

The reason for Blacks, Hispanic/Latinos and Asian increased isn't addressed in the article. Biden still won those groups by large margins but would like to understand why there was increased support for Trump.
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Old 12-05-2020, 06:23 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
Trump made gains on (1) key minority blocks (2) increased the #17. 30-44 group only and (3) Trump increased the #31. $100K+.

I understand #31.

Puzzled about #17, it would seem they would fall in the #30. $50K - $100K group which went to Biden.

The reason for Blacks, Hispanic/Latinos and Asian increased isn't addressed in the article. Biden still won those groups by large margins but would like to understand why there was increased support for Trump.

for cubans and (older) asians, it's because trump is anti-china.
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Old 12-06-2020, 07:58 AM   #515
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for cubans and (older) asians, it's because trump is anti-china.

Not sure I see the Cuban tie to anti-China? Maybe the more hardline (vs Obama) against Castro-regime.

But yeah, I can see Asians because of anti-China and can see south Asians (e.g. Indians) because of the strong Modi connection.

There wasn't an age breakdown between the Hispanics/Latinos, Asians and Blacks. If Trump's surprising strength in FL with Hispanics/Latinos was because of his harder stance on Castro-regime, I'm guessing it's with the older folks.

I do hope Biden goes the Obama path towards Cuba. I'd like to see an increased outreach, normalization & aid etc. and I would love to travel to Cuba to check it out.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:06 AM   #516
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I thought this was an interesting read. It's a FB post from 7:19pm yesterday. The writer is in his early 80s. I know him because he's the father of a good friend of mine from home, and was a donor to a ministry I led in my home town. He has been a delegate at the RNC multiple times, including 2016 and, I think, 2020, and is currently an active member of the local Republican Party. (Pretty sure he was the local Party chair at one point.)
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if you are mad, upset about this Nov election, prove it... go back to the polls and vote for the two Republicans running for the US Senate. if you don't we lose again. but this time it is America that loses again. do not allow the nay Sayers to convince you that not voting is the right thing to do. if the Republican majority in the Senate is not retained, everybody loses, the dems win, and win big... everything they have told us they would do, they will be able to do, come after our guns, open the borders, raise taxes, agree to the iran and their goal of a nuclear bomb, green deal, fossil fuel business goes away, jobs in those industries go away, don't let this happen, don't believe the dems and their fans, and stay away from voting, it is the way of destruction. vote in this runoff and vote for Perdue and Loeffler.. vote early to be sure you do get to the polls... early voting is easy and sure. don't think you will be able to vote on election day, what if your family has an emergency?? vote early, it as your life depends on it, and it does, your life as an American and your life and its freedoms..depend on your vote for the Republicans,

Related to the "we lose again" bit, I just Googled him, and he is quoted on a news site from Columbus on November 8th as saying "...President Biden should be congratulated and I'm willing to do that..." He is later quoted on December 3rd, after the recount as saying he fully trusts the folks in charge of the election in Muscogee County, who had just certified that Biden won my home town by 19,000 votes.

I just think this is a fascinating juxtaposition of normalcy (full public acknowledgement that Biden won, full understanding that the vote isn't rigged and that Rs should vote in the ruoff) with what many here would consider to be fringe/crazy beliefs of conservatives about the liberal agenda.

(FWIW, this individual doesn't represent the Biblical conservative Christians from my home town that I've referenced previously. He's pretty much as theologically diametrically opposite of my closest friends and me as you can be and still be a Christian. Full-on Arminian, and dispensationalist to boot.)
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:29 AM   #517
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Fear is a powerful tool.
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:49 AM   #518
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Fear is a powerful tool.
And that's the thing. This isn't a guy with a huge following who is just being a demagogue. It's one thing when a politician says that stuff just to get votes. To me it's quite another when the rank and file are truly living in fear.

Related, my mother-in-law recently sent my wife a long, sad, doom-and-gloom text that was so over-the-top that she just texted back Philippians 4:8 and told her mom that she needs to stay away from all news for a while. Lowlights of the text included how powerful the Deep State is that it could cheat its way to victory, how Biden is nominating people who believe no one should live past 75, and that they're going to sell their condo in the mountains (a retreat that brings both of them true joy,) because it will lose so much of its value when Biden destroys the economy.
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:33 AM   #519
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... and that they're going to sell their condo in the mountains (a retreat that brings both of them true joy,) because it will lose so much of its value when Biden destroys the economy.

Let her know I'm looking for a good deal. Assume Blue Ridge/Appalachian Mtns?
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:39 AM   #520
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Fear is a powerful tool.

It's how we have a million different religions all fighting to dominate one another.
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:45 AM   #521
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And yet it seems somewhat reasonable compared to Trump's warnings that black people are going to come and steal white farms.
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Old 12-06-2020, 10:33 AM   #522
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Not sure I see the Cuban tie to anti-China? Maybe the more hardline (vs Obama) against Castro-regime.

But yeah, I can see Asians because of anti-China and can see south Asians (e.g. Indians) because of the strong Modi connection.

There wasn't an age breakdown between the Hispanics/Latinos, Asians and Blacks. If Trump's surprising strength in FL with Hispanics/Latinos was because of his harder stance on Castro-regime, I'm guessing it's with the older folks.

I do hope Biden goes the Obama path towards Cuba. I'd like to see an increased outreach, normalization & aid etc. and I would love to travel to Cuba to check it out.

It's the whole democrats = socialists/communists schtick

there's been a lot of pro-trump foreign propaganda on youtube and facebook that's been popping up within the last two years
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Old 12-06-2020, 11:10 AM   #523
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Another maddening aspect of it is normalizing the crazy and both-sides-ism. Like when the left screams things like "putting kids in cages", "killing people through pandemic ineptitude", "violently putting down protests", and "trying to steal an election" - that's happening in broad daylight. Like it's happened in the last year and/or is happening right now - there's not really debating that these are actually happening. Oh sure, someone might try to parse "pandemic ineptitude" (but other places have people dying, too!) or whatabout "Obama with kids in cages" (except, of course, it was only done for suspected child trafficking, etc, when it was thought the kid was in danger vs clearly as a matter of course now). But when we objectively look at it - these are fears because of what we are seeing happen right now.

Whereas if we look back to the Obama administration just 4 years ago, where Biden was VP, gun control got looser, taxes went up only if you were among the richest (and they're going up in 2021 for everyone because of how Trump/GOP structured their BS tax cut by design), the Dems can't get their own caucus to agree on a Green New Deal much less get it across the aisle, and the Iran deal was not "GOP wants Iran to not have the bomb while the Dems want them to" - it was (still is) a disagreement over how best to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons. Maybe one or two of those things change. But, man, if Obama was half the liberal he was made out to be, the liberals would like him a lot more as a President than they do as a person and a symbol.

SI
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Last edited by sterlingice : 12-06-2020 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-07-2020, 12:22 PM   #524
Edward64
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Still too close to call (or be comfortable), but according the 538 polling both Dems are ahead.

(But who really trusts polls anymore)

Latest Polls Of The Georgia Senate Runoff Elections | FiveThirtyEight
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Old 12-07-2020, 12:43 PM   #525
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Still too close to call (or be comfortable), but according the 538 polling both Dems are ahead.

(But who really trusts polls anymore)

Latest Polls Of The Georgia Senate Runoff Elections | FiveThirtyEight

Nobody and hopefully Dems get out and vote. In any other time I would not mind a republican senate with a Dem Whitehouse, but that ship has sailed and I think at least one of them HAS to win, with the hope that Biden can influence 1 or 2 of the more moderate republicans to cross the aisle on important votes.

Of course both winning would be ideal as it would force McConnell to play nice and Biden will not exploit an advantage as much as much as this admin has tried to.
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:30 PM   #526
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The problem with McConnell as majority leader is that he can just keep bills from getting debate. That and the filibuster would make it impossible for any coalition to pass bills without Mitch's personal approval.
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:48 PM   #527
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Still too close to call (or be comfortable), but according the 538 polling both Dems are ahead.

(But who really trusts polls anymore)

Latest Polls Of The Georgia Senate Runoff Elections | FiveThirtyEight


Yeah, I just about read that as both Republicans are up by 3. The thing that throws a monkey wrench in that is the turn-out question. Whereas in the past Dem turn out in special elections in Georgia sucks, and the GOP has the most consistent voters, I don't know if we might see the norms stand on their heads here. Dems smell blood in the water, and are highly motivated. The Republicans feel their votes didn't count in the general.
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:19 PM   #528
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The recent Athens(?) DA race showed good GOP turnout.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:34 PM   #529
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The recent Athens(?) DA race showed good GOP turnout.
The progressive Democrat won. I can't find turn out percentages, but it didn't look like a surprise. Athens is very blue.
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:35 PM   #530
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Yeah, Des won, but the GOP turnout was good.
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:12 AM   #531
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Don't know anything about Austin but apparently Biden has worked with him before as VP. Good that he is adding so much diversity to his cabinet.

Tradition (?) says he should be adding a Rep to his cabinet. Wonder who and what position that'll be.

Quote:
President-elect Joe Biden has selected Retired Gen. Lloyd Austin to serve as secretary of defense, according to three people with knowledge of the decision. If confirmed, Austin would be the first Black person to lead the Pentagon.

In picking Austin, Biden has chosen a barrier-breaking former four-star officer who was the first Black general to command an Army division in combat and the first to oversee an entire theater of operations. Austinís announcement could come as soon as Tuesday morning, people familiar with the plans said Monday.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:00 AM   #532
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Don't know anything about Austin but apparently Biden has worked with him before as VP. Good that he is adding so much diversity to his cabinet.

Tradition (?) says he should be adding a Rep to his cabinet. Wonder who and what position that'll be.

That is a great pick for Sec of Def. I would assume he will pick a rep for a low profile cabinet pick so not AG but who knows.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:28 AM   #533
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I wish we weren't going back to a recently retired General for Sec Def.
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:00 AM   #534
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:11 AM   #535
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I fear we're eroding the concept of civilian control of the military. We don't need back to back administrations with the military running itself.
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Old 12-08-2020, 11:11 AM   #536
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I fear we're eroding the concept of civilian control of the military. We don't need back to back administrations with the military running itself.

Considering the damage Trump did, Biden is gonna have a lot of fires to put out.

Plus considering Trump put all his cronies in the budgeting committee, I think a military person would have no challenge gutting them whereas a private citizen would be construed as political.
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Old 12-08-2020, 01:42 PM   #537
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Looking like Doug Jones, losing Alabama Senator gets the "Lucky Loser" prize-leading candidate to be Attorney General
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Old 12-08-2020, 01:51 PM   #538
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Considering the damage Trump did, Biden is gonna have a lot of fires to put out.

Plus considering Trump put all his cronies in the budgeting committee, I think a military person would have no challenge gutting them whereas a private citizen would be construed as political.

To me, that's the big problem. The Pentagon can't have veto power over decisions if made by a civilian.
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Old 12-08-2020, 04:04 PM   #539
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To me, that's the big problem. The Pentagon can't have veto power over decisions if made by a civilian.


He is going to have to get a waiver from both the House and Senate to even be able to face nomination. I think he might not get that waiver. Dems that stood against Mathis are already saying they are not going to agree to give Austin a waiver. I think his nomination was a mistake.
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Old 12-08-2020, 04:49 PM   #540
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I guess we are back to the game of chicken part deux. McConnell seems to be punting liability protection to next year as well as state & local government support. Don't know who has the upper hand right now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/coro...greements.html
Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday backed off his demand for businesses to get coronavirus-related liability protections as part of a year-end rescue package.

The Kentucky Republican urged Congress to pass an aid bill that contains neither legal immunity nor state and local government support, two roadblocks to lawmakers striking a relief deal.

“What I recommend is we set aside liability and set aside state and local, and pass those things that we can agree on knowing full well we’ll be back at this after the 1st of the year” during the transition to President-elect Joe Biden’s administration, McConnell told reporters on Tuesday.
Quote:
In proposing to abandon both contentious issues, McConnell specifically mentioned a handful of areas where Republicans and Democrats have found consensus: Paycheck Protection Program small business loans, money for Covid-19 vaccine distribution and aid for health-care providers, among “a variety of other things that are not controversial.” He did not say where he currently stands on direct payments to Americans.

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Old 12-08-2020, 05:41 PM   #541
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:20 PM   #542
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I like Yang but it creeps me out that so many white nationalist types seem to be his biggest cheerleaders. Is there a reason beyond UBI and his interviews with Rogan and other like minded "centrists"?

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Old 12-08-2020, 06:51 PM   #543
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I've come to the opinion that about the only thing that matters for the NYC mayor is if the police union will work with you.
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:03 PM   #544
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I like Yang but it creeps me out that so many white nationalist types seem to be his biggest cheerleaders. Is there a reason beyond UBI and his interviews with Rogan and other like minded "centrists"?


Rogan and Tucker led to his explosion on 4chan, who then went through his tweet history and latched onto anything the felt was a secret nod to the white nationalist movement.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:30 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
I've come to the opinion that about the only thing that matters for the NYC mayor is if the police union will work with you.

NYPD runs the city and it would be a waste for him to be Mayor.
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:24 AM   #546
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Mayor Pete for Ambassador to China? That is unexpected.
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:26 AM   #547
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He speaks Chinese, right? (He probably speaks Chinese. Or if he doesn't, will by next month.)
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:47 AM   #548
ISiddiqui
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Buttigieg does not speak Mandarin (or any other Chinese languages).
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:02 AM   #549
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Was mostly joking, but wouldn't have been surprised.
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:51 AM   #550
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Ted Cruz to Axios: "As long as there's litigation ongoing, and the election result is disputed, I do not think you will see the Senate act to confirm any nominee"

Dems aren't allowed to govern.
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