Werewolf XVII: Return of the Wolves

[RPI-Fan]

Wait just a minute here...

Originally Posted by The Rules

Witness - As a one-time skill, you may choose to view the killing of an innocent during the night. If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

Either, the rules are miswritten, or st.cronin is pulling one over on us.

No one was killed last night, so the view was wasted.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Since hes sooo new and you told him too, im inclined to believe him....either that or the rook plays a good rook...odd though is that usually the witness sees one of the attackers, not the victim...but neon does like to switch things up...either way

VOTE SNDVLS

I did see the attacker, I think. I saw no victim.

[Blade6119]

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

[SirFozzie]

Hmm..

Could it be that SNDVLS is not the cursed, but the attacker? Be it that way.. I gotta think about this, what happens here..

UNVOTE SNDVLS (butI'm still leaning heavy towards him)

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

For pointing out a legitimate question about the rules, Blade? what if he's good? SNDVLS could always be the cunning wolf..

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Interesting....very interesting....I say we kill sundvls, and if hes bad, RPI fan goes next

For now, I trust Neon_Chaos' rules more than st.cronin.

Either way, I think we make out alright tomorrow, since if N_C doesn't clear anything up, we know st.cronin is lying.

Neon_Chaos: Just want to confirm -- the rules are AS WRITTEN in the first post, right?

[RPI-Fan]

I don't see what the issue is right now. According to the rules, when there is no kill the witness is "wasted". I take that to mean no information was gained.

Some clarification from N_C on the role of the witness would be appreciated (and appropriate, I think).

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Wait just a minute here...



Either, the rules are miswritten, or st.cronin is pulling one over on us.

No one was killed last night, so the view was wasted.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE ST.CRONIN

That could imply that whoever was attacked was 'blessed' - since blessed is given 'a second chance at life.' The wording could imply a technical kill ... either way, it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do if I were a wolf, considering the way the rules are written.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

For pointing out a legitimate question about the rules, Blade? what if he's good? SNDVLS could always be the cunning wolf..

i mean if hes a wolf, he was already suspicious, and now someone claims to have witnessed a wolf and he tries to protect him with the rules....my bet is neon still treats it as a kill, just wording

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

i mean if hes a wolf, he was already suspicious, and now someone claims to have witnessed a wolf and he tries to protect him with the rules....my bet is neon still treats it as a kill, just wording

If that's the case, it's horrendously poor wording.

[SirFozzie]

The problem is, if Neon Chaos clarifies it, it will be seen as a tell for one side for the other.. I had the same issue in the X-Com game, mind you.

[Poli]

Vote Sndvls.

I'll go out on a limb and trust st.cronin. Don't let me down, Blue.

[Blade6119]

i know all too well, so he may not...i personally feel neon allowed thw witness to see an attack, it occured(be it blessed or cursed) and counted it as a kill and told the witness...my idea of the rule is he wont see anything if the herbalist protects that person, which isnt the case

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

i know all too well, so he may not...i personally feel neon allowed thw witness to see an attack, it occured(be it blessed or cursed) and counted it as a kill and told the witness...my idea of the rule is he wont see anything if the herbalist protects that person, which isnt the case

Or if, for some reason, the wolves don't attack. I thought the balance was that the wolves could stay hidden on a given night (to foil the witness one-time ability). Anyway, I'll *not* post the precise words I got in my pm.

[Blade6119]

DONT POST PMs!!!.....please dont!!!

[Blade6119]

Thats a big no-no...i didnt that in the past and got in trouble...please dont do it

[st.cronin]

Sorry ... edited

[Blade6119]

its all good, just know that in the future...i dont think it was mentioned here yet so you have no way of knowing....but ya, theres no way i cant believe you now

[st.cronin]

I didn't post that to make anybody believe me, because, you know, I could have easily written it myself. I was just looking to be more specific about what I "saw" because there was some question ... anyway, SnDvls changed into a wolf, and THEN there WAS an attack. It's just that, apparently, nobody was killed.

[Poli]

Well, like I said before, I trust Cronin. I'll be interested in seeing the arguments of A) Sndvls and B) anyone who challenges Cronin's vision, or whatever you call it.

[RPI-Fan]

UNVOTE ST.CRONIN

Looks like Neon was just far too vague in his wording...

Will leave my vote open, for now.

[st.cronin]

I am pretty sure that the only way the witness doesn't see something is if the wolves don't attack anybody. That was my understanding of the rules...

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am pretty sure that the only way the witness doesn't see something is if the wolves don't attack anybody. That was my understanding of the rules...

Well, the time would be rare when the wolves don't attack anyone (in fact, I think you'd have to be an idiot like me to do so!).

I do agree that it appears the only time the witness does no good is when the herbalist is active.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Well, the time would be rare when the wolves don't attack anyone (in fact, I think you'd have to be an idiot like me to do so!).

I think its safe to say looking back that I PWNED you that game.

[SirFozzie]

ok.. my suspicions are somewhat allayed by the recent discussion.. enought to reinstate my vote.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Kill me if you want. Passacaglia made a play screaming wolf, so as a villager our best play was to go get him.

Um, no. He made a play screaming "you idiots are going to off the herbalist before he can do anything", and you proceeded to ignore the evidence as to why it was a good idea to leave him alive for at least one more day. Nice going.

[Mr. Wednesday]

ardent, your vote is not valid, it needs to be bold and all caps.

At this time, as much as any, one-for-one trades work to our benefit. If st. cronin is lying, then he's gone tomorrow.

VOTE SNDVLS

[McSweeny]

well since we've sorted out the rules bit

VOTE SNDVLS

[SackAttack]

VOTE RPI-FAN

Seems like you all have SnDvls targeted pretty well, but I still don't get a good vibe about RPI. With Passacaglia being the herbalist, and with RPI being pretty vehement at one point, referring to Pass as "you and your wolf buddies," I just gotta think he was being a little too ardent (sorry, AE!) to be anything but a wolf.

My two cents.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Um, no. He made a play screaming "you idiots are going to off the herbalist before he can do anything", and you proceeded to ignore the evidence as to why it was a good idea to leave him alive for at least one more day. Nice going.

He had a couple random first-day votes thrown on him, and he came out swinging, which was a very strange response. He could have been a lot more subtle and probably had things work out alright.

[Mr. Wednesday]

At the point he came out swinging, it wasn't "a couple random first-day votes", it was a full-fledged first-day bandwagon. It's all well and good to say that he could have been more subtle, but not everyone is blessed with the skill to make the subtle play. In hindsight, maybe it would have been better to try to talk people out of it quicker without pulling out the herbalist info until later, but it's really easy to get caught up in the "you idiots are screwing everything up" emotion and jump the gun.

[kingfc22]

What a wild first day. I'm going to go along with the SnDvls crowd and obviously if he is a villager then st. cronin is the next to go.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Poli]

VOTE SNDVLS


Thanks, Mr. W.

[dubb93]

IJ'm drunkm and assee sn0onty rason to chnge my vote

VOTE MCSEENY

[Neon_Chaos]

Did we get our very first drunken WW post?

[Raiders Army]

Holy cow, a lot of stuff happened since yesterday. I think it will take me the morning to figure out what happened.

[Poli]

I'll be at work most of the day, and I'll be lucky if I can even browse the discussion. Don't take my silence in a bad way.

[Barkeep49]

I'm really torn here.

On the one hand I think the witness using his ability the first night is almost always the correct play. Even if it takes two nights and requires a 1 for 1 trade when things are so tilted towards the villagers that is worth it.

On the other hand the rules state pretty clearly

Originally Posted by The Rules

As a one-time skill, you may choose to view the killing of an innocent during the night. If noone is killed, then you waste your view.

No one was killed last night so how could this be true?

On the otherhand, there is no reason to make this play if a wolf wasn't spotted last night. It doesn't make sense for the wolves since unless they somehow know that SnDvls is the Seer why would they sacrifice one of their own so early on? Since there is no indication in the rules that the wolves can find the seer, then either SnDvls or St. Cronin has to be the witness with other being a wolf.

Based on what's been posted I'm leaning towards believing St. Cronin. However, I learned my lesson a couple games back not to vote before both sides have been heard so I am holding off my vote until we hear from SnDvls.

[Raiders Army]

Well, a lot has happened, and at this point the only thing I know is that we have a two-horse race today with St. Cronin and SnDvls.

Barkeep brings up a good point, but then again I'm always suspicious of everything.

[SnDvls]

Wow a lot has gone on since last nigth.

St. Cronin, good play, but not correct. I was attacked last night, as you stated, but I was blessed. And therefor saved. I must have ruffeled some feathers or should I say fur when I said Pass & RPI were good, and looks like I was right there too. Again you all are barking up the wrong tree and losing another villager who can help get the wolves to come out is a bad move. I hope I'm not too late in stopping this wrongly started band wagon. I just wish St. Cronin would have waited until I said something before accusing me so quickly.

[SnDvls]

I was given permission by Neon to pharaphrase a PM from him last night, since st. cronin has already done so for my defense. It when something like this..again I'm phraphrasing and putting this in my own words per Neon's approval and permission.

While out at night you feel like someone is following you. Suddenly you are attacked and left for dead. You are lucky tonight as you are Blessed and get a second chance at life.

[Barkeep49]

Well I remain unconvinced. Perhaps today's discussion will change this, but for now I VOTE SNDVLS

Off to work for me now. Will be back a few hours before lynch. I hope to see the kind of good discussion we had yesterday.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I was given permission by Neon to pharaphrase a PM from him last night, since st. cronin has already done so for my defense. It when something like this..again I'm phraphrasing and putting this in my own words per Neon's approval and permission.

While out at night you feel like someone is following you. Suddenly you are attacked and left for dead. You are lucky tonight as you are Blessed and get a second chance at life.

Hmpf. At first I thought it would be easy to discount this if someone else came forward to say that they were blessed and then it would be st. cronin and that person against SnDvls' word....but then I remembered that the blessed doesn't know if he is blessed. Doh.

I'll go with st. cronin, but if he's wrong, he's out. VOTE SNDVLS

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Hmpf. At first I thought it would be easy to discount this if someone else came forward to say that they were blessed and then it would be st. cronin and that person against SnDvls' word....but then I remembered that the blessed doesn't know if he is blessed. Doh.

I'll go with st. cronin, but if he's wrong, he's out. VOTE SNDVLS

I don't know I'm blessed until I'm attacked that's the point. I'm given a second chance at life. I'm telling you St. C did see me get attacked I'm not disputting that. I'm saying you are going after the wrong person. Have you noticed I haven't thrown St. C under the bus? I believe he is who he says he is because I was attacked last night. Like I said I pissed off some wolves last night in what I did or said, probally because Pass was innocent. I guess I have to again go with my gut and vote who I thought was bad on day 1.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[RPI-Fan]

I don't think this has to be an either-or scenario. I think we were cut some slack by the poor wording in the rules (N_C letting people post summaries of their PM's indicates this), and we might have two people we can consider "safe".

I'm going to go with SnDvls here, as SirFozzie was semi-defending Pass yesterday, and then trying to push things my way today.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I don't think this has to be an either-or scenario. I think we were cut some slack by the poor wording in the rules (N_C letting people post summaries of their PM's indicates this), and we might have two people we can consider "safe".

I'm going to go with SnDvls here, as SirFozzie was semi-defending Pass yesterday, and then trying to push things my way today.

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

Whoooooa. This is completely out of left field. Why would you think that SirFozzie is a wolf when he was defending a known villager? (who incidentally was telling the truth...sorry about voting for you, Pass!)

I gave you benefit of the doubt yesterday when you were pushing hard for Pass, but now this just seems like you're trying to save SnDvls by voting for someone who's not even on the chopping block.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, I also don't get how you don't get it's an either or scenario. Either st. cronin is telling the truth or SnDvls is telling the truth. It can't be both.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Dola, I also don't get how you don't get it's an either or scenario. Either st. cronin is telling the truth or SnDvls is telling the truth. It can't be both.

Doh! Really tired this morning... I was thinking st.cronin had ONLY said SnDvls was attacked (not that he actually became a wolf).

Re-reading what he says...

UNVOTE SIRFOZZIE

[Mr. Wednesday]

OK, this is turning into a mess, and if it turns out that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls the blessed, we're liable to have a complete train wreck here. We really need to nail a wolf on this one or we're seriously behind the 8-ball.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

OK, this is turning into a mess, and if it turns out that st. cronin is the witness and SnDvls the blessed, we're liable to have a complete train wreck here. We really need to nail a wolf on this one or we're seriously behind the 8-ball.

Dang. Alot to read through and alot has gone on since I last signed in. I'm kinda following this train of thought as well. I think that St. C did see SnDvls get attacked, but I'm also leaning towards thinking SnDvls was the blessed as well. I think we are barking up the wrong tree here because both are potentially villagers. I'm not POSITIVE on this however.