Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[Autumn]

Gotham Latebreaking News

4 dzilla77 - hoopsguy (1096), zinto (1171), chief rum (1192), lathum (1204)
4 J23 - danny (1180), thomkal (1210), abe sargent (1215), The Jackal (1240)
3 lathum - tyrith (1186), dzilla77 (1202), chubby (1239)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm of the opinion that we won't be able to stop playing Joker's scenarios until we make "the moral" choice - I thought that yesterday's writeup condemned us for playing along with Joker in the vote, even if it turned out well for us.

What happens for Day 4 when we take out J23 tonight? Is that when we draw the line and say "no way, not playing" to Joker? If there is some sort of endgame here maybe I would feel a little differently about going along with it today.

So you think with a moral choice and random kill we wouldn't have to play one of his games tomorrow? It's an interesting leap of faith. But I also feel like Batman has the ability to stop this and/or will reveal eventually and we'll have a nightfall joker day. Though that could definitely be closer to endgame if Batman needs to stay quiet for his abilities to be more of a factor.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm of the opinion that we won't be able to stop playing Joker's scenarios until we make "the moral" choice - I thought that yesterday's writeup condemned us for playing along with Joker in the vote, even if it turned out well for us.

What happens for Day 4 when we take out J23 tonight? Is that when we draw the line and say "no way, not playing" to Joker? If there is some sort of endgame here maybe I would feel a little differently about going along with it today.

I only have the movie to go off of, the citizens don't play and batman arrests the joker. I have to assume there is a way for batman to take out the joker without revealing (again, from the movie)

i also worry about corruption and it being possible tied into playing along?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So you think with a moral choice and random kill we wouldn't have to play one of his games tomorrow? It's an interesting leap of faith. But I also feel like Batman has the ability to stop this and/or will reveal eventually and we'll have a nightfall joker day. Though that could definitely be closer to endgame if Batman needs to stay quiet for his abilities to be more of a factor.

i'm not convinced the random kill happens, certainly possible it will but it could be our equivelant of "the other boat has killers and thieves so you should blow them up before they blow you up"

[J23]

I have no role that the village will lose if that is your question Darth.

I really do think that following the Joker's game is what will satisfy his win condition. If I remember correctly there was a scene where the Joker put a bounty on a person much like he did on me today. Batman ends up having to escort him to safety as the people of the city randomly try to kill him.

In the movies, the Joker is trying to bring everyone down to his level. That was why he fixated on Batman, since he was a symbol of good & justice.

What the consequences of continuing to allow the Joker to dominate the game are, I don't know. I just can't believe that it is a good idea for the village (or even the mob potentially).

[The Jackal]

Alright, what's the fun of playing if you don't get drawn into morality!

UNVOTE J23
VOTE DZILLA

[Chubby]

with Danny not online that I see, his vote seems to be staying on J23...

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, I don't know how it will work but I don't think that Joker is going to get to continue to accelerate kills every day until Batman shows up. That just doesn't seem like the right game balance to me ... it feels like we "did something wrong" yesterday.

Does a role that gets unlimited extra kills, pending the Batman reveal, seem like it makes more sense to you? I have no idea at all how it will play out, but I worry about continuing to make morally ambiguous choices on a movie that played so heavily on contrasting "right" and "wrong".

[The Jackal]

I'm willing to press my luck (man i loved that gameshow) and hope that we get a good random kill result AND don't have to play the joker's game tomorrow. So I hope my feelings from before are wrong.

[The Jackal]

I'm taking the high road with you over my better werewolf instincts.

[Chubby]

i think danny def wants the games to continue as, to me, it muddies up trying to read votes/intentions

[J23]

Vote Dzilla

Putting the defensive vote out there early enough to allow responses.

[Chubby]

Lathum better stay online to "explain all" after the lynch as he appears to be safe

[J23]

I wouldn't expect an explanation until after the night actions myself.

[J23]

Hopefully right at 11:01, just in case

[The Jackal]

I do have to go now, unfortunately! I'll check back in before bed to see how things went.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm willing to press my luck (man i loved that gameshow) and hope that we get a good random kill result AND don't have to play the joker's game tomorrow. So I hope my feelings from before are wrong.

No Whammy!

[Autumn]

Gotham Late Night News

6 dzilla77 - hoopsguy (1096), zinto (1171), chief rum (1192), lathum (1204), The Jackal (1256), J23 (1262)
3 J23 - danny (1180), thomkal (1210), abe sargent (1215)
3 lathum - tyrith (1186), dzilla77 (1202), chubby (1239)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Lathum better stay online to "explain all" after the lynch as he appears to be safe

I agree. And he knows we'd lynch him in a heartflash if he doesn;t. My guess is he's still busy with work.

[Darth Vilus]

vote j23

sorry bro

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I agree. And he knows we'd lynch him in a heartflash if he doesn;t. My guess is he's still busy with work.

heh, he was in the thread... until I posted

[Darth Vilus]

i really dont think we can afford 2 lynches. i encourage peole to switch

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

i really dont think we can afford 2 lynches. i encourage peole to switch

I encourage you to have faith

[J23]

I have no idea if there will be 2 lynches or not. I hope not, but I also don't think we should continue to play the Joker's games. If I had a better solution, I'd give you one.

[Thomkal]

even though I'm not voting for him, I hope you guys are right that this will help open up the corruption mechanic for us. I'm just not ready yet to risk losing Batman or a roled citizen to a random die roll.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by J23

I have no idea if there will be 2 lynches or not. I hope not, but I also don't think we should continue to play the Joker's games. If I had a better solution, I'd give you one.

+1

mind you, this doesn't mean I think you are village. i'm still not sure, but i've thought best bet all along was to not play the joker's games

[J23]

You're welcome to lynch me if you think it's the best choice. I'd just rather it be done on the villagers' terms, not the Joker's.

[J23]

Guess we'll find out shortly.

[Chubby]

hopefully we get the double bonus of dzilla being in the mob /crosses fingers

[Lathum]

I wish I could talk myself out of a lynch so easily as a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

even though I'm not voting for him, I hope you guys are right that this will help open up the corruption mechanic for us. I'm just not ready yet to risk losing Batman or a roled citizen to a random die roll.

I'm not sure I understand this logic - wasn't JAG night-killed the same day that Joker came into being? Before we faced any of the Joker challenges?

I have no idea how to assess "corruption" in this game. It doesn't look like conversion, since JAG was not shown as converted. But beyond that, I just don't know what to make of it and haven't thought deeply about it. In our ideal world, one of the roles knows something about it and can provide insight at some point in the game.

[Autumn]

Gotham Court Report

6 dzilla77 - hoopsguy (1096), zinto (1171), chief rum (1192), lathum (1204), The Jackal (1256), J23 (1262)
4 J23 - danny (1180), thomkal (1210), abe sargent (1215), darth vilus (1270)
3 lathum - tyrith (1186), dzilla77 (1202), chubby (1239)

Deadline

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not sure I understand this logic - wasn't JAG night-killed the same day that Joker came into being? Before we faced any of the Joker challenges?

I have no idea how to assess "corruption" in this game. It doesn't look like conversion, since JAG was not shown as converted. But beyond that, I just don't know what to make of it and haven't thought deeply about it. In our ideal world, one of the roles knows something about it and can provide insight at some point in the game.

If I were to create a corruption mechanic for a game like this, in which many are corrupted and don;t know it, I would make it so their votes could be changed by a bribery power but not the others. I'd give the wolves a list of the corrupted people and let them choose which votes o move.

[Autumn]

News rolls in today from Gotham City Police Department. There are no leads on the location of the man known only as J23, the target of The Joker's most recent threat. However, police have made an arrest, a suspect in the mob hits of the past two nights. A man known only as dzilla77 has been arrested and brought to Gotham Courthouse.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not sure I understand this logic - wasn't JAG night-killed the same day that Joker came into being? Before we faced any of the Joker challenges?

I have no idea how to assess "corruption" in this game. It doesn't look like conversion, since JAG was not shown as converted. But beyond that, I just don't know what to make of it and haven't thought deeply about it. In our ideal world, one of the roles knows something about it and can provide insight at some point in the game.

You guys have been talking about morality choices, I'm taking that to mean these choices we are making with the Joker's games are connected to the corruption mechanic in some way not something seperate. I believe (would have to go recheck the rules), some citizens start out as corrupted-thus that's why JAG showed up as corrupted, I could be wrong.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If I were to create a corruption mechanic for a game like this, in which many are corrupted and don;t know it, I would make it so their votes could be changed by a bribery power but not the others. I'd give the wolves a list of the corrupted people and let them choose which votes o move.

But do you see any reason to associate that power with the stuff Joker is doing? Perhaps allowing additional people to fall under the corruption/bribery power as a result of their choices?

Maybe that connection is there, but from what little we've seen it feels like a stretch to me. I still think it is likely a long-term bad play to keep feeding into the Joker's games, but not out of fear of corruption.

[Autumn]

This is Gotham at Night, we have a caller. What do you think about the Joker's threat? Will he do what he says?

"Oooooh hoooo hoooo. HhaaaHaa Haaa. I'm sorry, did you say something? I was just thinking of a joke I know. I happen to know just what this joker is going to do. And what he's going to do is punish you for not playing his game. It's very upsetting to me, I mean him. He went out and found you a nice person to kill. What do you know? It might have been another mob boss. Didn't I deliver last night? Didn't I help you out? I've done more for you than that Batman, haven't I?

"I mean the Joker has, ha haha ha hah. Silly me. But that's fine, you don't want to play. You want to be 'morally upright'. It just means you chose to kill someone else. Killing is a choice, and you've made yours. Now time to make mine. Hmmm, which of these buses do you think I should pick? So many numbers ..."

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But do you see any reason to associate that power with the stuff Joker is doing? Perhaps allowing additional people to fall under the corruption/bribery power as a result of their choices?

Maybe that connection is there, but from what little we've seen it feels like a stretch to me. I still think it is likely a long-term bad play to keep feeding into the Joker's games, but not out of fear of corruption.

This game feels like one with a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on. All we can do is vote and hope.

[Autumn]

News in from Gotham Courthouse. The man known as dzilla77, apparently his stage name, has been arrested and will stand trial for murder one. A rapper with a large following in Gotham, Dave Ziller will face possible consecutive life sentences. A tragic end for a noted artist.

Dzilla77 was a Citizen.

[Autumn]

This is Gotham Live. We have reports of an explosion on the Wayne Bridge. Eyewitnesses report that a city bus has exploded. Police are rushing to the scene. This explosion is most likely related to the Joker's threat, the Joker reportedly just speaking on a rival call-in show to report his plan to detonate a bus bomb. Citizens are cautioned to stay indoors and do not panic. Initial reports suggest that the bus contained a group of Arkham Asylum doctors heading to a conference, including noted Multiple Personality Disorder expert, PackerFanatic (aka Schmidty).

PackerFanatic/Schmidty was killed by the Joker. He was a Citizen.

[Abe Sargent]

Bad news on the double villager kill, good news is we don't have to look at PF/S tomorrow.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Autumn

News in from Gotham Courthouse. The man known as dzilla77, apparently his stage name, has been arrested and will stand trial for murder one. A rapper with a large following in Gotham, Dave Ziller will face possible consecutive life sentences. A tragic end for a noted artist.

Dzilla77 was a Citizen.

a vanilla citizen, sucks he wasn't mob but could have been worse.

just saw PF/schmidty was whacked, again not the worst as they haven't beenonline at all and would have ended up being a waste of time for debate tomorrow. we've gotten lucky and gotten help from the joker twice now.

[Autumn]

Night action deadline at 11 p.m.

The next voting deadline will be Monday at 10 p.m. I know I won't be around this weekend enough to do anything.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Night action deadline at 11 p.m.

The next voting deadline will be Monday at 10 p.m. I know I won't be around this weekend enough to do anything.

Could we Nightfall and end early?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Honestly I have been so busy it is hard to keep up. I pretty much have no clue what is going on.

As promised

[Chubby]

time for another vanilla citizen to get killed, me!

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Could we Nightfall and end early?

You're certainly welcome to nightfall whenever you want. However it's very possible I won't be able to process any results until Monday morning. I should be around plenty on Monday.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

News in from Gotham Courthouse. The man known as dzilla77, apparently his stage name, has been arrested and will stand trial for murder one. A rapper with a large following in Gotham, Dave Ziller will face possible consecutive life sentences. A tragic end for a noted artist.

Dzilla77 was a Citizen.

I blame Tupac.

[The Jackal]

Well, I guess we'll find out what kind of joker mechanic we get (if any) after the NK. I was afraid we'd lose two villagers, but at least they were normal citizens. Monday should be an interesting day.

[The Jackal]

Solid random choice though, will save us one angle of analysis that would've led multiple people astray, it seems.