Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[Danny]

Overall, I'd place the odds about 50/50 on Abe being Batman or being a mobster with a night ability he wants to make sure he is able to use before being killed.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'll tell you what. Unvote me for today and I'll tell you all about my votes after the deadline.

Originally Posted by Lathum
Honestly I have been so busy it is hard to keep up. I pretty much have no clue what is going on.

As promised
__________________



this is all we get and you are actually complaining about abe? of course in your position what else are you going to do... claim you are police commissioner? lol

if the Joker doesn't disappear tonight then Abe goes tomorrow but with your "enlightening" response above i think the no brainer decision for today is for you to go.

[Danny]

Would Lathum really play this way as a wolf though. I'd have to think he would have more for us and be more involved. Maybe not though

[Lathum]

I'm not really getting your last post Chubby, it validates what I have been saying.

I never claimed I was going to make any kind of reveal. I said unvote me and I'll explain why I was voting the way I did. I delivered on that promise.

[mckerney]

Text Kill Lathum

[Danny]

Mckerney format is different for this one. I dont vote, but I'd vote Lathum if I could just to see what Abe has planned

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Danny

Overall, I'd place the odds about 50/50 on Abe being Batman or being a mobster with a night ability he wants to make sure he is able to use before being killed.

If Abe = Batman we certainly don't want to lynch him tomorrow.

If Abe = mobster with night kill ability we could lynch him but still don't have any answers for you that don't put Batman at risk. I don't think we're well served having you dictating kills (this is debatable) or accelerating the rate of kills in the long run. The latter reduces the amount of time our roled participants have to come up with information identifying the mobsters.

[Lathum]

I gotta be honest, while the Joker roll is cool, I think it is pretty over powered.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I gotta be honest, while the Joker roll is cool, I think it is pretty over powered.

But it's not really beneficial to one side over the other.

[Danny]

And according to Abe he can take me out anyway, so we shall see.

[Danny]

And it's too late now, but if I wasn't lynched, I would have been powerless.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

But it's not really beneficial to one side over the other.

I get that, but giving one player the power to narrow down who will be killed takes away a large aspect of the game. The point of werewolf is the collective group decides who will be lynched. A one time mechanic I understand, but IMO it is basically like you are playing a game with the rest of us as extras.

[Thomkal]

Hey Abe,

How do you feel about us doing the all-Batman reveal and lynching Joker on Monday?

Hey Lathum,

Abe is clearly hinting he is a roled citizen. Would you like to make a claim about your role?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I get that, but giving one player the power to narrow down who will be killed takes away a large aspect of the game. The point of werewolf is the collective group decides who will be lynched. A one time mechanic I understand, but IMO it is basically like you are playing a game with the rest of us as extras.

Well Batman has decided to hide like a coward this whole time. This could have been over long ago.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Hey Lathum,

Abe is clearly hinting he is a roled citizen. Would you like to make a claim about your role?

I never said I had a role

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I never said I had a role

You've never said much of anything this game. Being the subject of the Joker's game might make you want to make a claim, and I'd rather not wait till an hour before deadline to get a claim from you. So was just making sure nothing had changed there.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

You've never said much of anything this game. Being the subject of the Joker's game might make you want to make a claim, and I'd rather not wait till an hour before deadline to get a claim from you. So was just making sure nothing had changed there.

Interesting you are trying to get me to reveal some info that I may not need to or want to reveal.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Danny

Well Batman has decided to hide like a coward this whole time. This could have been over long ago.

I told you I was Batman, I haven't been hiding.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I told you I was Batman, I haven't been hiding.

Well then

Vote Danny

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Interesting you are trying to get me to reveal some info that I may not need to or want to reveal.

Lathum,

I am doing nothing of the sort. The Joker mechanic has put you and Abe potentially on the chopping block. As a citizen of Gotham, I and the others need all the information we can get on both of you so we don't pick the wrong person. J23 came forward when he was the subject of the Joker's game and said over and over he was a normal citizen of Gotham. If you are one as well, I see no reason why you would not say so early.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Hey Abe,

How do you feel about us doing the all-Batman reveal and lynching Joker on Monday?

Hey Lathum,

Abe is clearly hinting he is a roled citizen. Would you like to make a claim about your role?

I still think that's stupid, I can take him out at night, why vote him today? He's still immune, that's just wasted vote.

[Abe Sargent]

I meant to put a smily after the stupid comment to show I wasnt irritaed or anything, but forgot it, sorrys

[Darth Vilus]

Hmm, I'm not sure what to make of Abe's reveal yet. Sooo glad i have the whole weekend to ponder it. We can't afford another bad decision

[MrBug708]

Is there a vote tonight?

[Danny]

No next deadline is monday

[Danny]

but there is a lynch along with the joker kill

[mauchow]

I think I figured it out! Danny is the joker! Game over I ruined it for everyone.

[Danny]

Wow I had no idea, you just spoiled the game for me

[Zinto]

I am not super excited about today since our room for error is not that great. I am not sure what to make of Abe's reveal since the only role he could have is Batman(or that is what I am assuming) to be able to take out the Joker.

I almost think it would be in our best interest to play Joker's game and then vote no lynch because losing three villagers again will make it close to impossible to win.

[Danny]

Not really, right now it's probably either 11-3-1 or 10-4-1 so even with three villager kills, you're looking at 8-3-1 or 7-4-1

[Lathum]

well. I've been dwelling on this since Friday and unfortunantly I know how this goes. Mob mentality will take over and decide to give Abe one more day to prove his claim, so I suppose I need to come out.

I am Lt Gordon, basically I am a bodyguard. I have three officers on my squad and they protect the target I choose on a rotating basis. The catch is, if one of the officers has been corrupted the target will be killed. I have no knowledge of who the officers actually are, and actually the officers don't even know they are officers.

N1 I guarded NTN Deacon since he had taken some heat early, I thought he would be a good target for a set up kill. N2 I guarded myself, N3 I guarded Hoops since he is a good villager and night kill target.

That is my role and info, it is up to you guys to decide if you want to believe me or take a gamble with Abe.

[Thomkal]

Thank you Lathum for giving us a role claim. That means, unless there's another unknown role out there, Abe has to be either Dawes or Batman I believe. I will believe your claim unless someone else comes out claiming the same thing of course. That kinda sucks that you don't even know your own officers.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I still think that's stupid, I can take him out at night, why vote him today? He's still immune, that's just wasted vote.

No offense taken at the comment Abe. Why vote him today? Because several of us (or at least I did) believed his claim that he had a power that would help the ciitzens of Gotham if he was lynched. You are basically asking us to do the same here. Believe that you have an unknown power that will take out Joker. What's that saying? Fool me once...

voting to lynch him right now is the only sure bit of knowledge we citizens have-as the mod said the Joker becomes lynchable if the Batman reveals. So unless I get more information from you Abe, I think the best way to play this is to do just that-all reveal as Batman and vote Danny.

[hoopsguy]

My worry on this is that only Batman is going to have (near?) complete information on what the risks/rewards are with his reveal. From a comic-book perspective, it probably isn't a good thing for him to reveal his secret identity.

I just don't know what value Batman has in this game - we have yet to see anything in the game indicating that Batman is actively helping us while we continue to see the Joker publicly dictating the flow of the game. I'm sure it is a powerful role, so I've tried to take the stance that Batman will make good decisions about his role and not try to force his hand. This is in contrast to something like a seer role, where I understand what it does and don't think there is much harm in suggesting "Scan player x".

Bottom line - I think it is easy for us to tell Batman what to do, but we're making assumptions when we take that path. Assumptions that Batman may know are not optimal play.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I believe Lathum's reveal - it is entirely consistent with how I see the role description in the rules and it gives us some insight into how corruption might work. The only part that has me a little twitchy is the three officers, when we haven't seen any officers dead up to this point.

Figure we have the following left in the game:
3 officers
3-4 mobsters
Batman
Joker
Gordon

That's 9-10 of the remaining players, and that still leaves Dawes, Judge, and the Commish. Assuming all those roles are left in the game, that doesn't leave a lot of room for regular citizens at this point considering that we've seen 4 citizens (one corrupted) go down already.

[Lathum]

Hoops, the officers don't even know they are officers, so I'm not sure we would be told upon death they were officers.

[Lathum]

I'm wondering if today is the day we go with no kill to test the morality issue

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm wondering if today is the day we go with no kill to test the morality issue

Wow, you really are not paying attention to the game

[Danny]

Lathum, you guys tested that yesterday, it didn't work. Further, no kill isn't even an option today really as if you go that route, you'll both be killed. So yes, I say you guys go no kill

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I am not super excited about today since our room for error is not that great. I am not sure what to make of Abe's reveal since the only role he could have is Batman(or that is what I am assuming) to be able to take out the Joker.

I almost think it would be in our best interest to play Joker's game and then vote no lynch because losing three villagers again will make it close to impossible to win.

Abe is either Batman or a mobster. Probably a mobster with a convert ability, but could be batman.

[Danny]

I'm pretty happy with my choices for today's contestants. We have someone claiming to be batman and them being able to take me out and we have someone claiming to be the BG. Oh what fun we'll have.

[Danny]

Any chance there is a wolf like seer ability and Abe knew Lathum was the BG and would have to try something early to have a chance at survival? Or was he really just excited and made a bad decision with his cryptic reveal?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Lathum, you guys tested that yesterday, it didn't work. Further, no kill isn't even an option today really as if you go that route, you'll both be killed. So yes, I say you guys go no kill

In that case I say we kill Abe

[Danny]

What I still don't get is why Abe pleaded to not vote him today. If he is Batman, I can't kill him anyway.

[Zinto]

It looks like Abe is the choice today in Joker's game unless he comes out with something more concrete so that we can weigh the pros and cons of lynching him or Lathum.

[Danny]

I think the real lesson here is you guys should have killed J23 yesterday

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, I believe Lathum's reveal - it is entirely consistent with how I see the role description in the rules and it gives us some insight into how corruption might work. The only part that has me a little twitchy is the three officers, when we haven't seen any officers dead up to this point.

Figure we have the following left in the game:
3 officers
3-4 mobsters
Batman
Joker
Gordon

That's 9-10 of the remaining players, and that still leaves Dawes, Judge, and the Commish. Assuming all those roles are left in the game, that doesn't leave a lot of room for regular citizens at this point considering that we've seen 4 citizens (one corrupted) go down already.

More then likely the Judge, the officers, and the commish all got the same vanilla role PM. Autumn said that the unnamed roles would not get a different one and the people who had those roles would not know if they did or not.

[Danny]

I take that back, the main thing we have learned is that Batman is a coward

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

voting to lynch him right now is the only sure bit of knowledge we citizens have-as the mod said the Joker becomes lynchable if the Batman reveals. So unless I get more information from you Abe, I think the best way to play this is to do just that-all reveal as Batman and vote Danny.

I am also not on board with the all reveal as Batman plan. I think Autumn will probably make a post the same way as he did for the Joker saying "Johny is Batman". When Batman feels that he should come out then he should choose to.

[Chubby]

So let's say I believe both Abe and Lathum (as Abe is representing Batman), wouldn't the choice still be Lathum to die?