WW - The Princess Bride (Game Over - Wolves Win) - Page 23

JAG · 08-01-2011, 06:54 AM

Alright, the only wolf role listed that had a power that sounds like CF is describing is Vizzini, who can steal a power for a day. There would be no reason for the wolves to target him instead of Danny (full seer) or Telle (presumed BG) unless they were confident they could kill Danny, which obviously they were, which would indicate there's no BG in the game and Telle is lying about having her power disrupted. Color me shocked about no BG in game, though I guess Miracle Max had some BG-lite powers.

But now as a point of strategy, she has the iocane powder, so even though we've caught her in a lie, there's a 50-50 chance that lynching her would just lead to a villager lynch anyway. I suppose we can have the unknowns line up on her with Narcizo and CF abstaining from the vote so even if the powder protects her, we can eliminate an unknown rather than losing a cleared player.

Vote Telle

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 08:06 AM

I'm pretty certain you're barking up the wrong tree voting Telle. A Princess Bride game without Fezzik? Really?

I've been rereading the thread. Combine the people who chose the wheelbarrow with the people who can possibly be the Count and we narrow it down to two people - Autumn and mauboy. I've been re-reading

Autumn has been very active in a lot of areas but I don't see him make any mention about the wheelbarrow theory as I like to amusingly name it.

Also, straight after the day three lynch Autumn gets right into Danny's face about him switching from Chief to NTN at the last moment. Naturally Autumn expected NTN to come up village and to pin something on Danny/Chief. He's also been more than unusually questioning about roles - he questioned Telle or CF's story but not particularly vigorously. If he believes in voting early and voting often surely he should have voted like JAG did?

I know no-one's voting has been very good as we seem to have been hitting villagers all game long but Autumn's is a special kind of not good in my opinion.

Vote Autumn

My analysis has been all over this game so I concede that I'm probably not the best person to be setting the tone. But hey - Vote early and vote often. Right?

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 08:13 AM

Oh and why didn't I give the cloak to Danny?

1) My victory conditions require me to stay alive until I meet them. My own survival was paramount. If you want to make that seem like I'm in cahoots with the wolves bear in mind I didn't reveal that I had lost my seer ability in-thread until Danny revealed - despite it endangering my own life. Why do that if I solely care about meeting my main victory condition.
2) As I'm pretty certain the wolves have worked out, I used the cloak on myself before night three. (Fezzik couldn't have protected me because Jackal ascertained that he protected me night two). Because I used it before the night the wheelbarrow didn't stop it from protecting me.
3) I was planning to pretend to give the cloak to Danny but figured it would be pointless once it came out that Fezzik had protected me night two. And I thought Danny was bluffing about not having his self-protection ability used up. It possible that the wolves were told that I had used the cloak from the outset. Another area where Autumn hasn't been overly interested incidentally, whereas JAG - a similar, analytic type, has been asking questions about it.

Lathum · 08-01-2011, 08:32 AM

Yeah, I can't say I agree with Jag on the Telle vote. I haven't followed as close I I would have liked this game, but it seems we should go after the people without unchallenged reveals.

I think if it gets down to an endgame scenario we could revisit voting Telle, but for now it seems like a risky play.

I'll have to look closer at Mau and Autumn. One thing that has struck me about Mau is his quick trigger this game. I remember playing with some people who would get way more in someones face as a wolf then as a villager. I'm wondering if Mau is this type of player. I could live with a Mau-Autumn run off.

Getting my thoughts down because Mondays are typically busy for me dealing with all the morons who wrecked their cars over the weekend so I may have limited time today.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 08:55 AM

Lathum and Narc, if you don't agree with JAG about Telle, where do you think he's wrong? How is it that both CF And Telle had their abilities disrupted last night? This is a sincere question because I'm just not aware what it could be. We know Vizzini can steal one of htier abilities, but not both. Can the wheelbarrow be used more than once? Are we sure it's been used.

I guess what I need is a breakdown of which abilities are claimed or assumed to have been used when. This weekend was a bit crazy and I'm not feeling on top of things as I was before.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I'm pretty certain you're barking up the wrong tree voting Telle. A Princess Bride game without Fezzik? Really?

I've been rereading the thread. Combine the people who chose the wheelbarrow with the people who can possibly be the Count and we narrow it down to two people - Autumn and mauboy. I've been re-reading

Autumn has been very active in a lot of areas but I don't see him make any mention about the wheelbarrow theory as I like to amusingly name it.

Also, straight after the day three lynch Autumn gets right into Danny's face about him switching from Chief to NTN at the last moment. Naturally Autumn expected NTN to come up village and to pin something on Danny/Chief. He's also been more than unusually questioning about roles - he questioned Telle or CF's story but not particularly vigorously. If he believes in voting early and voting often surely he should have voted like JAG did?

I don't have a problem with this, if the numbers make a runoff including me make sense, then we'll have to do it. I have never had the wheelbarrow, I'm not sure if you're asking about something more than that when you say "wheelbarrow theory". As you can see above I've gotten hazy about some details.

I definitely called out Danny on that last second switch. I thought the evidence was showing the wolves happy with a NTN vote, so I thought it was either a real bad move, a wolf move, or Danny had figured something out I had missed entirely. Turns out it was none of hte above, just another villager/villager runoff. However, I would say that if my intention was as you say above, Narc, I would have voted Danny, right? Or at least pushed people to vote Danny. I'm not sure I ever mentioned it again.

I have been questioning role claims, mostly because I expect to see a fake. The wolves know a role not in the game, and so it would behoove them to claim it before they get a lot of heat, and then do some things to make the claim look legit. I don't want to lose the game because we ignored that possibility. There's no harm in making sure we're not getting hoodwinked.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 09:01 AM

Thing is - if you're a wolf then you know that Telle was blocked so you might highlight the descrepency as a point of interest hoping to get the information about what Crimson is saying but not vote for her because you know that an explanation is going to come. If you're a villager then you don't go digging for information - you assume, like JAG, that Telle has been caught in a lie and vote for her.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 09:09 AM

I've got all day to vote. And I just spent the last ten minutes putting together a list of roles in game to figure out if JAG is right. So I'm not sure I agree, or appreciate, the idea that a real villager would just vote first, think later.

Confirmed Roles
Inigo
Westley
Miracle Max
Dread Pirate Roberts
Prince Humperdink
Vizzini

Implied Roles
Princess Buttercup (Prince scans for her)
Count Rugen (Inigo scans for him)
Fezzik (Vizzini scans for him)

Not Necessary In Game Roles
The Albino
Grandpa
The Clergyman
ROUS

If we assume all confirmed and implied roles are in game:
3 wolves
5 roled villagers
1 neutral
7 vanilla villagers

In game now:
9 players: 1 neutral, 2 wolves, 3 roled villagers, 3 vanilla

This all seems reasonable to me, in the sense that I can believe Fezzik is in the game (though still a possibility not).

However, I haven't found any other reason yet for a scan or a BG not to go through.

I guess i'm hesitating because no one else seems to be balking at this. Is it not obvious that one of CF or Telle is lying?

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

Can the wheelbarrow be used more than once?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Wheelbarrow - One time use. Can be used as part of a ploy to frighten the target. The target will be unable to perform a night action that night or vote the following day. The target may still post and will be informed that the item was used against him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

Are we sure it's been used

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Ok, that's enough of that - someone used the wheelbarrow on me last night.

I'm definitely wondering myself how two people could have been stopped without someone lying, and since CF has proven his role..

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 09:14 AM

That also implies that Narcizo wasn't lying about the wheelbarrow being used on him, but I don't really see why he would.

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 09:20 AM

Like Narcizo, I am very hesitant to believe that Fezzik wouldn't be included in the game. On top of that it would be very powerful for the wolves to know that was a role not included. But I'm still struggling to see what happened last night.

Telle · 08-01-2011, 09:21 AM

I don't have any explanation as to how CF and I could have had our abilities blocked on the same night. It doesn't make any sense.

But do you honestly think the wolves are bumbling enough to claim to use the block power on one player and then actually use it on another? Don't you think that would be a little on the stupid side?

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 09:22 AM

Night 1
Narc scanned Pass
Bhlloy killed
Telle guarded self

Night 2
Packerfan killed
Telle guarded Narc

Night 3
No kill

Night 4
Telle's guard is disrupted
CF's scan is disrupted
Danny is killed

Which night did you get wheelbarrowed, narc? And when did the Dread Pirate visit you? Night 2?

please add stuff to this list guys, for my sake.

I have a theory about what happened with CF and Telle, so I'm now going to drop that discussion, as it's not a theory the wolves need to hear.

I'm going to look back at those possible Count Rugens. I wish we could have narrowed it down, but I still thinks it makes sense to vote from those.

Wait, why did someone say Mau and I re the only ones who could have had the wheelbarrow? It seems there's quite a few who could have got it.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Cleared villagers:
11) Narcizo (neutral but presumed on villager side)
13) CrimsonFox
15) Telle

Cannot be Count Rugen, but could be any remaining wolf:
10) Lathum
14) MrBug708

Could be any remaining wolf:
6) The Jackal
7) mauboy1
8) Autumn
16) JAG

Quoted for my benefit.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 09:24 AM

I now need to do some work, I'll be checking in occasionally.

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

Wait, why did someone say Mau and I re the only ones who could have had the wheelbarrow? It seems there's quite a few who could have got it.

You are the only two that chose the wheelbarrow -and- could be Count Rugen.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

You are the only two that chose the wheelbarrow -and- could be Count Rugen.

Oh, right. Well ... that doesn't mean much, right? Vizzini could just as easily have the wheelbarrow. Or they might be able to pass it, in which case Pass passed it.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 10:02 AM

A possible theory is that the wolves realised that trying to take the powder would make them look suspicious so they avoided it and worked out that getting the wheelbarrow was actually more useful for them anyway and all selected it to try and get it through sheer numbers.

Anyway, Danny switched roles with me night two, after I revealed. Wheelbarrow was used on me night three. Danny self-protected night three, I used the cloak before night three (protecting me night three/day four), Danny's scan was blocked night three, presumably by Vizzini.

I presumed Danny was lying about having used his self-protect because I thought Vizzini would block all his abilities, including that of self-protection.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 10:30 AM

Thanks Narc, I should add CF's scans as well. When did CF reveal?

Night 1
Narc scanned Pass
Bhlloy killed
Telle guarded self

--Narc reveals as Westley-

Night 2
Packerfan killed
Telle guarded Narc
Danny switches with Narc

Night 3
No kill
Wheelbarrow used on Narc
Danny protects self
Narc uses cloak
Danny's can is blocked

--Telle reveals she has Iocane--
--Telle reveals as Fezzik--

Night 4
Telle's guard is disrupted
CF's scan is disrupted
Danny is killed

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

. One thing that has struck me about Mau is his quick trigger this game. I remember playing with some people who would get way more in someones face as a wolf then as a villager. I'm wondering if Mau is this type of player.

I don't think Mau gets like that when he's a wolf. I prefer to ignore the incident altogether and not let it influence me one way or the other. Leaving mau with very little input to the village cause.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 12:37 PM

Dunno how much I'm going to be able to be around tonight. Neither Telle or CF are lying. Well OK there's a remote possibility that Fezzik isn't in the game but all evidence I have says that Telle is telling the truth, and it is pretty much as you'd expect - Vizzini cancels her block so the hit on Danny can go ahead. CF isn't lying either - his blocked scan is an unfortunate by-product of my victory conditions - it isn't going to happen again (pwomise).

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 12:43 PM

Stupid Dread Pirate Roberts keeps messing with us

JAG · 08-01-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Dunno how much I'm going to be able to be around tonight. Neither Telle or CF are lying. Well OK there's a remote possibility that Fezzik isn't in the game but all evidence I have says that Telle is telling the truth, and it is pretty much as you'd expect - Vizzini cancels her block so the hit on Danny can go ahead. CF isn't lying either - his blocked scan is an unfortunate by-product of my victory conditions - it isn't going to happen again (pwomise).

I really don't see why you would hold out on that info Narc. But unless CF has something to contradict you, I'll concede that Telle is likely telling the truth if the wolves weren't involved in CF's scan fail.

Unvote Telle

Lathum · 08-01-2011, 12:52 PM

JAckal has seemingly gotten little to no attention this game and I am starting to wonder why. Is there some key vote or something I am missing that elevates his level of trust?

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 12:59 PM

vote mauboy

MrBug708 · 08-01-2011, 01:01 PM

I can't, for the life of me, find the last complete vote history

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 01:01 PM

I don't know of anything re: Jackal, lathum. He's on my list of three I'll be voting today but I don't have anything other than that on him.

Narc's revelation cements a sentiment I was going to post, that I'm wary of trusting what he is posting without knowing his victory conditions or abilities. We don't know either of those truly, and have reason now to think he won't be straight with them if he does reveal.

JAG · 08-01-2011, 01:03 PM

I'll be back in a couple hrs for break, doesn't seem like I'll miss out on much in the meanwhile.

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

JAckal has seemingly gotten little to no attention this game and I am starting to wonder why. Is there some key vote or something I am missing that elevates his level of trust?

I haven't really done much. I moved my vote from bhlloy to DV D1 when the vote was tied to lead the final push on DV, and if I was a wolf I probably don't do that when I can just stay put knowing bhlloy and DV are both good.

I really thought NTN was a wolf, so I'm pretty stuck now in terms of where I want to go. We can't target the neutral at this point but I'm getting annoyed with that role interfering with the game. I know that's its intended purpose, but damn.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:05 PM

This is where our votes should be. If you do not vote in this group, I'm guessing you are a wolf.

6) The Jackal
7) mauboy1
8) Autumn
16) JAG

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:05 PM

And to add to that I don't think Jackal is a wolf. That is not from any scans or anything.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:05 PM

JAG voting for telle makes me again think he's guilty.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 01:10 PM

I agree that's a good list to vote from, CF, but it's a bit much to suggest only a wolf wouldn't. The only reason for that list is good odds to catch one of the wolves. There's no reason to limit ourselves to it if we find good clues to another wolf.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:12 PM

and just where would those clues be...got some in your pocket?

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 01:12 PM

I'm really up in the air on JAG, Jackal and Mauboy. I'm tending toward Mauboy just because we have less to go on with him - Jackal has given us that day one vote and a fair bit of analysis, JAG is posting his analysis regularly. They're more likely to give themselves away with that level of activity than Mauboy is with his. But I haven't seen anything yet that jumped out at me with any of them. A reread is in order.

Lathum · 08-01-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

We can't target the neutral at this point but I'm getting annoyed with that role interfering with the game. I know that's its intended purpose, but damn.

How do we know that role is in the game?

I thought only the wolves know what role, if any, aren't in the game?

Telle · 08-01-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

JAG voting for telle makes me again think he's guilty.

That was my first feeling as well.. but he really did have a good point. Based on the ruleset as we knew it, either you or I had to be lying and you had already proven your role as Duke. So he thought he had caught me in a lie and jumped on it like any villager would.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:14 PM

I'm almost thinking we're looking at a JAG/Autumn wolf team.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:15 PM

And JAG's analysis has been anything but regular. He gave analysis for one day out of 5. Well there was wheels on the bus too...

Telle · 08-01-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

How do we know that role is in the game?

I thought only the wolves know what role, if any, aren't in the game?

Both Narcizo and Danny verified that the role is in the game. It would be one very convoluted story for the wolves to make up, and they'd both have to be wolves. Add to that the fact that Narcizo gave us a wolf.. I'm inclined to believe them.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

JAG voting for telle makes me again think he's guilty.

You see, I think the opposite -the evidence does point towards Telle (or you) lying. I find Autumn's method of questioning without really doing much about it much more suspicious.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

Both Narcizo and Danny verified that the role is in the game. It would be one very convoluted story for the wolves to make up, and they'd both have to be wolves. Add to that the fact that Narcizo gave us a wolf.. I'm inclined to believe them.

And Danny wasn't a wolf.

I didn't ask to be made the Dread Pirate Roberts. Blame Danny. Or blind luck for me picking Passa and revealing.

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

You see, I think the opposite -the evidence does point towards Telle (or you) lying. I find Autumn's method of questioning without really doing much about it much more suspicious.

This seems an odd response from the person who was hiding the information which would have resolved the question. And also odd considering we still have eight hours to go. Rushing to a lynch has never really helped the village, but I suppose it would have helped you avoid having to give away information about your role.

Telle · 08-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Oh yeah.. Danny's gone, and it was thus verified that he wasn't a wolf. And as I recall, his reveal upon death referenced the whole pirate/Wesley thing.

CrimsonFox · 08-01-2011, 01:24 PM

I believe Telle is telling the truth that the wolves blocked her. There's been no counter to her not being Fezzik.

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

How do we know that role is in the game?

I thought only the wolves know what role, if any, aren't in the game?

Danny claimed it, stole Narcizo's role, backed up by Narcizo, and then "achieved his win conditions" in EF's writeup. We know DPR is in the game, and we know it's Narc, unless he's exchanged roles with CF like Danny did to him.

The Jackal · 08-01-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I believe Telle is telling the truth that the wolves blocked her. There's been no counter to her not being Fezzik.

I believe it now that Narc has fessed up he was involved in screwing up your scan. We don't know what the DPR can do anymore, so I don't think anyone should look at Telle today.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

This seems an odd response from the person who was hiding the information which would have resolved the question. And also odd considering we still have eight hours to go. Rushing to a lynch has never really helped the village, but I suppose it would have helped you avoid having to give away information about your role.

*ahem* Mr Vote Early and Vote Often?

I'm only following the same tactic as I used on day two - get information before revealing. Well, in this case I needed to check something out with Eagle as well but still. With.holding information is not automatically an anti-village activity. Who knows, if Telle hadn't revealed that she protected me on night two I might still be pretending that I had the Holocaust Cloak.

This antagonistic tone reminds me of a game not too long ago. Which game was that I wonder melodramatically to myself. Oh yes. The one where you were a baddy.

Honestly I've got nothing like as strong a feeling about you this time round but still.

Narcizo · 08-01-2011, 01:30 PM

I think I might change my name to "Mildly Annoying Pirate Roberts".

Autumn · 08-01-2011, 01:34 PM

For the record, I suggest vote early and vote often at the beginning of the game, where we drastically need some excuse to be making votes, some content to start the game off with. It's not particularly useful five days in where we should have plenty of things to mull over in order to make a vote.

08-01-2011, 06:54 AM	#1101
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Alright, the only wolf role listed that had a power that sounds like CF is describing is Vizzini, who can steal a power for a day. There would be no reason for the wolves to target him instead of Danny (full seer) or Telle (presumed BG) unless they were confident they could kill Danny, which obviously they were, which would indicate there's no BG in the game and Telle is lying about having her power disrupted. Color me shocked about no BG in game, though I guess Miracle Max had some BG-lite powers. But now as a point of strategy, she has the iocane powder, so even though we've caught her in a lie, there's a 50-50 chance that lynching her would just lead to a villager lynch anyway. I suppose we can have the unknowns line up on her with Narcizo and CF abstaining from the vote so even if the powder protects her, we can eliminate an unknown rather than losing a cleared player. Vote Telle

08-01-2011, 08:06 AM	#1102
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	I'm pretty certain you're barking up the wrong tree voting Telle. A Princess Bride game without Fezzik? Really? I've been rereading the thread. Combine the people who chose the wheelbarrow with the people who can possibly be the Count and we narrow it down to two people - Autumn and mauboy. I've been re-reading Autumn has been very active in a lot of areas but I don't see him make any mention about the wheelbarrow theory as I like to amusingly name it. Also, straight after the day three lynch Autumn gets right into Danny's face about him switching from Chief to NTN at the last moment. Naturally Autumn expected NTN to come up village and to pin something on Danny/Chief. He's also been more than unusually questioning about roles - he questioned Telle or CF's story but not particularly vigorously. If he believes in voting early and voting often surely he should have voted like JAG did? I know no-one's voting has been very good as we seem to have been hitting villagers all game long but Autumn's is a special kind of not good in my opinion. Vote Autumn My analysis has been all over this game so I concede that I'm probably not the best person to be setting the tone. But hey - Vote early and vote often. Right?

08-01-2011, 08:13 AM	#1103
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Oh and why didn't I give the cloak to Danny? 1) My victory conditions require me to stay alive until I meet them. My own survival was paramount. If you want to make that seem like I'm in cahoots with the wolves bear in mind I didn't reveal that I had lost my seer ability in-thread until Danny revealed - despite it endangering my own life. Why do that if I solely care about meeting my main victory condition. 2) As I'm pretty certain the wolves have worked out, I used the cloak on myself before night three. (Fezzik couldn't have protected me because Jackal ascertained that he protected me night two). Because I used it before the night the wheelbarrow didn't stop it from protecting me. 3) I was planning to pretend to give the cloak to Danny but figured it would be pointless once it came out that Fezzik had protected me night two. And I thought Danny was bluffing about not having his self-protection ability used up. It possible that the wolves were told that I had used the cloak from the outset. Another area where Autumn hasn't been overly interested incidentally, whereas JAG - a similar, analytic type, has been asking questions about it.

08-01-2011, 08:32 AM	#1104
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Yeah, I can't say I agree with Jag on the Telle vote. I haven't followed as close I I would have liked this game, but it seems we should go after the people without unchallenged reveals. I think if it gets down to an endgame scenario we could revisit voting Telle, but for now it seems like a risky play. I'll have to look closer at Mau and Autumn. One thing that has struck me about Mau is his quick trigger this game. I remember playing with some people who would get way more in someones face as a wolf then as a villager. I'm wondering if Mau is this type of player. I could live with a Mau-Autumn run off. Getting my thoughts down because Mondays are typically busy for me dealing with all the morons who wrecked their cars over the weekend so I may have limited time today.

08-01-2011, 08:55 AM	#1105
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Lathum and Narc, if you don't agree with JAG about Telle, where do you think he's wrong? How is it that both CF And Telle had their abilities disrupted last night? This is a sincere question because I'm just not aware what it could be. We know Vizzini can steal one of htier abilities, but not both. Can the wheelbarrow be used more than once? Are we sure it's been used. I guess what I need is a breakdown of which abilities are claimed or assumed to have been used when. This weekend was a bit crazy and I'm not feeling on top of things as I was before.

08-01-2011, 09:01 AM	#1107
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Thing is - if you're a wolf then you know that Telle was blocked so you might highlight the descrepency as a point of interest hoping to get the information about what Crimson is saying but not vote for her because you know that an explanation is going to come. If you're a villager then you don't go digging for information - you assume, like JAG, that Telle has been caught in a lie and vote for her.

08-01-2011, 09:09 AM	#1108
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I've got all day to vote. And I just spent the last ten minutes putting together a list of roles in game to figure out if JAG is right. So I'm not sure I agree, or appreciate, the idea that a real villager would just vote first, think later. Confirmed Roles Inigo Westley Miracle Max Dread Pirate Roberts Prince Humperdink Vizzini Implied Roles Princess Buttercup (Prince scans for her) Count Rugen (Inigo scans for him) Fezzik (Vizzini scans for him) Not Necessary In Game Roles The Albino Grandpa The Clergyman ROUS If we assume all confirmed and implied roles are in game: 3 wolves 5 roled villagers 1 neutral 7 vanilla villagers In game now: 9 players: 1 neutral, 2 wolves, 3 roled villagers, 3 vanilla This all seems reasonable to me, in the sense that I can believe Fezzik is in the game (though still a possibility not). However, I haven't found any other reason yet for a scan or a BG not to go through. I guess i'm hesitating because no one else seems to be balking at this. Is it not obvious that one of CF or Telle is lying?

08-01-2011, 09:14 AM	#1110
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	That also implies that Narcizo wasn't lying about the wheelbarrow being used on him, but I don't really see why he would.

08-01-2011, 09:20 AM	#1111
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Like Narcizo, I am very hesitant to believe that Fezzik wouldn't be included in the game. On top of that it would be very powerful for the wolves to know that was a role not included. But I'm still struggling to see what happened last night.

08-01-2011, 09:21 AM	#1112
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	I don't have any explanation as to how CF and I could have had our abilities blocked on the same night. It doesn't make any sense. But do you honestly think the wolves are bumbling enough to claim to use the block power on one player and then actually use it on another? Don't you think that would be a little on the stupid side?

08-01-2011, 09:22 AM	#1113
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Night 1 Narc scanned Pass Bhlloy killed Telle guarded self Night 2 Packerfan killed Telle guarded Narc Night 3 No kill Night 4 Telle's guard is disrupted CF's scan is disrupted Danny is killed Which night did you get wheelbarrowed, narc? And when did the Dread Pirate visit you? Night 2? please add stuff to this list guys, for my sake. I have a theory about what happened with CF and Telle, so I'm now going to drop that discussion, as it's not a theory the wolves need to hear. I'm going to look back at those possible Count Rugens. I wish we could have narrowed it down, but I still thinks it makes sense to vote from those. Wait, why did someone say Mau and I re the only ones who could have had the wheelbarrow? It seems there's quite a few who could have got it.

08-01-2011, 09:24 AM	#1115
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I now need to do some work, I'll be checking in occasionally.

08-01-2011, 10:02 AM	#1118
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	A possible theory is that the wolves realised that trying to take the powder would make them look suspicious so they avoided it and worked out that getting the wheelbarrow was actually more useful for them anyway and all selected it to try and get it through sheer numbers. Anyway, Danny switched roles with me night two, after I revealed. Wheelbarrow was used on me night three. Danny self-protected night three, I used the cloak before night three (protecting me night three/day four), Danny's scan was blocked night three, presumably by Vizzini. I presumed Danny was lying about having used his self-protect because I thought Vizzini would block all his abilities, including that of self-protection.

08-01-2011, 10:30 AM	#1119
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Thanks Narc, I should add CF's scans as well. When did CF reveal? Night 1 Narc scanned Pass Bhlloy killed Telle guarded self --Narc reveals as Westley- Night 2 Packerfan killed Telle guarded Narc Danny switches with Narc Night 3 No kill Wheelbarrow used on Narc Danny protects self Narc uses cloak Danny's can is blocked --Telle reveals she has Iocane-- --Telle reveals as Fezzik-- Night 4 Telle's guard is disrupted CF's scan is disrupted Danny is killed

08-01-2011, 12:37 PM	#1121
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Dunno how much I'm going to be able to be around tonight. Neither Telle or CF are lying. Well OK there's a remote possibility that Fezzik isn't in the game but all evidence I have says that Telle is telling the truth, and it is pretty much as you'd expect - Vizzini cancels her block so the hit on Danny can go ahead. CF isn't lying either - his blocked scan is an unfortunate by-product of my victory conditions - it isn't going to happen again (pwomise).

08-01-2011, 12:43 PM	#1122
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Stupid Dread Pirate Roberts keeps messing with us

08-01-2011, 12:52 PM	#1124
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	JAckal has seemingly gotten little to no attention this game and I am starting to wonder why. Is there some key vote or something I am missing that elevates his level of trust?

08-01-2011, 12:59 PM	#1125
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	vote mauboy

08-01-2011, 01:01 PM	#1126
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I can't, for the life of me, find the last complete vote history

08-01-2011, 01:01 PM	#1127
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I don't know of anything re: Jackal, lathum. He's on my list of three I'll be voting today but I don't have anything other than that on him. Narc's revelation cements a sentiment I was going to post, that I'm wary of trusting what he is posting without knowing his victory conditions or abilities. We don't know either of those truly, and have reason now to think he won't be straight with them if he does reveal.

08-01-2011, 01:03 PM	#1128
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	I'll be back in a couple hrs for break, doesn't seem like I'll miss out on much in the meanwhile.

08-01-2011, 01:05 PM	#1130
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	This is where our votes should be. If you do not vote in this group, I'm guessing you are a wolf. 6) The Jackal 7) mauboy1 8) Autumn 16) JAG

08-01-2011, 01:05 PM	#1131
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	And to add to that I don't think Jackal is a wolf. That is not from any scans or anything.

08-01-2011, 01:05 PM	#1132
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	JAG voting for telle makes me again think he's guilty.

08-01-2011, 01:10 PM	#1133
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I agree that's a good list to vote from, CF, but it's a bit much to suggest only a wolf wouldn't. The only reason for that list is good odds to catch one of the wolves. There's no reason to limit ourselves to it if we find good clues to another wolf.

08-01-2011, 01:12 PM	#1134
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	and just where would those clues be...got some in your pocket?

08-01-2011, 01:12 PM	#1135
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I'm really up in the air on JAG, Jackal and Mauboy. I'm tending toward Mauboy just because we have less to go on with him - Jackal has given us that day one vote and a fair bit of analysis, JAG is posting his analysis regularly. They're more likely to give themselves away with that level of activity than Mauboy is with his. But I haven't seen anything yet that jumped out at me with any of them. A reread is in order.

08-01-2011, 01:14 PM	#1138
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	I'm almost thinking we're looking at a JAG/Autumn wolf team.

08-01-2011, 01:15 PM	#1139
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	And JAG's analysis has been anything but regular. He gave analysis for one day out of 5. Well there was wheels on the bus too...

08-01-2011, 01:21 PM	#1144
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	Oh yeah.. Danny's gone, and it was thus verified that he wasn't a wolf. And as I recall, his reveal upon death referenced the whole pirate/Wesley thing.