The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Lathum]

So I guess Jordan’s strategy is going to be try and discredit Cohen despite the fact it’s well established he is a scumbag.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So I guess Jordan’s strategy is going to be try and discredit Cohen despite the fact it’s well established he is a scumbag.

This would be correct if the folks in question had noble goals, but they care about little beyond getting re-elected. They represent deep red districts and will be hailed as heroes for "showing how evil the liberals trying to get Trump are" or something along those lines. https://t.co/PQBn9R3Kay

— Ben Lewis (@benelou) February 27, 2019

[JPhillips]

New: U.S. negotiators are no longer demanding that North Korea agree to disclose a full accounting of its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs as part of talks this week between Trump and Kim, according to current and ex-senior U.S. officials. https://t.co/jWfEEigPvN

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) February 27, 2019

Trump will give Kim Hawaii if it will take the Cohen testimony off the front page.

[Atocep]

Just catching up on the Cohen stuff from today.

So we have a member of Congress under investigation by the Florida Bar for possible witness tampering related to an investigation into the President.

We had a member of the House bring a black woman into the hearing to defend the racist claims against Trump and then we had a pissing match about whether it was more racist to bring a black person in as a prop or to call someone out for bringing a black person into a hearing as a prop.

The President, prior to becoming president, used his charity to pay for a painting of himself at an auction so he could then brag about it being the highest bid item.

The President's son wrote the check to Stormy Daniels.

Roger Stone has already broken his gag order by publicly responding to Cohen's testimony.

We had Jordan peddling the same deep state nonsense linking the Clintons to Cohen's testimony.

And during a hearing investigating possible crimes committed by the President featuring the guy who did the heavy lifting for the President not a single Republican asked a question related to possible crimes committed by the President.

I'm sure I'm missing some things.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This would be correct if the folks in question had noble goals, but they care about little beyond getting re-elected. They represent deep red districts and will be hailed as heroes for "showing how evil the liberals trying to get Trump are" or something along those lines. https://t.co/PQBn9R3Kay

— Ben Lewis (@benelou) February 27, 2019

It's amazing that people are latching onto some things Cohen said as proof there was no collusion with Russia and other things while at the same time tearing him apart as a pathological liar and unreliable witness.

[PilotMan]

I don't really understand the whole argument that Cohen is a piece of shit as a support in his testimony against trump. This is a man who worked for trump for 10 years, gradually got closer and closer and was intimately involved in multiple projects for trump and the trump organization. He is exactly the kind of person that trump draws. How many people have we found that fit this exact same profile in trump's orbit? I thought he only hired the very best people? I mean, the bottom line is, testimony aside, the fact that he IS a piece of shit, worked closely with trump for over 10 years and wouldn't have that position if he didn't have certain personality traits and a willingness to do very certain things that trump desires. How is the R tack today anything but supporting this line of thinking?

[spleen1015]

It is kind of comical to me how people are treating Cohen's testimony. Yes, he's a liar. He's going to jail for lying. Why did he lie? He was protecting your man for 10 years. He's a piece of shit because your guy wanted him to be a piece of shit. Thus, your guy is a piece of shit.

Then the Dems, come on. Let's not pretend you guys don't have someone out there doing your bidding, cleaning up your dirt.

They're all the same. Pieces of shit.

[JPhillips]

Trump defends his friend Kim.

Trump sides with Kim in the Otto Warmbier death using very familiar language: "You have a lot of people. And some really bad things happened to Otto. Some really, really bad things. But he tells me that he didn't know about it, and I will take him at his word." pic.twitter.com/nYnZpKKiDy

— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) February 28, 2019

[PilotMan]

But his personal lawyer for 10 year's word is crap and he's a liar, but this dictator of a foreign enemy, yeah, he's totally believable.

[miked]

Yet the dems are treasonous for promoting universal healthcare and climate change research/reversal harming our country.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It is kind of comical to me how people are treating Cohen's testimony. Yes, he's a liar. He's going to jail for lying. Why did he lie? He was protecting your man for 10 years. He's a piece of shit because your guy wanted him to be a piece of shit. Thus, your guy is a piece of shit.

Then the Dems, come on. Let's not pretend you guys don't have someone out there doing your bidding, cleaning up your dirt.

They're all the same. Pieces of shit.

Don’t “both sides” this

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by stevew

Don’t “both sides” this

I get it. This is all about Trump and all that.

This whole process seems so ridiculous. So many smart people doing and saying so many stupid things.

[Julio Riddols]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which party is mostly made up of people trying to do good for the country and which party is mostly made up of privileged old white men and redneck gun nut religious zealot lunatics who hunger for the america their parents knew back when "n*****s knew their place". We argue over pointless and short sighted shit like gun control and abortion and "religious freedom" instead of dealing with actual issues that have much larger and more widespread and long term consequences.

If we let things like low wages, poor healthcare, underfunded and undervalued education, bad working conditions, weakened environmental protections and unregulated financial bullshit to keep going on, there won't be a country left. There will simply be a controlling hierarchy and a bunch of stupid slaves. Innovation will slowly die as we lose more and more of our best and brightest to the continuing battle against intelligence. As our supply of innovators dwindle, our ability to continue leading the world will die. Eventually all that will be left is fast food, garbage and depression. Those who would eschew thinking of a future that they won't even be a part of for personal gains right now are dooming the future of our nation and world in favor of greed and pie in the sky bullshit.

God ain't coming back to save us. The rapture isn't going to protect anyone from their own self destruction, and whatever fucking deity anyone believes in isn't going to give a flying fuck about any of this shit, because they don't exist. It's time for us to evolve beyond small brain blind faith and make whatever sacrifices are needed in order to ensure that none of these fictional gods end up being the last hope humanity has left. We have to stop thinking only of what we ourselves want personally and start addressing what we as a whole need instead.

If we continue to cling to the past, we won't be able to take hold of the future.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I'm just so tired of how fucking stupid everything is every time Republicans hold power. History says all that needs to be said about that. Nobody gives a shit about history though, because nobody wants to look past what their coal miner daddy told them about the bad men trying to get them for all they're worth and think rationally. Either that or they were born too privileged to even know what it is like to have to earn your way.

I'm done.

[Thomkal]

I see now why Trump likes Netanyahu so much:


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...harges-n977571

[larrymcg421]

AOC continues to impress me more and more. She was by far the most effective person at the Cohen hearing.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I get it. This is all about Trump and all that.

This whole process seems so ridiculous. So many smart people doing and saying so many stupid things.

the trump spin would be:


corruption = politics; politics = corruption, and you can't split them apart so why should you try. It's just about trying to win, and who doesn't want to win? We're winning, right?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I see now why Trump likes Netanyahu so much:


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...harges-n977571

Is the proper response “Fake News” or something about a “politically motivated prosecution”. Need to refresh my playbook

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which party is mostly made up of people trying to do good for the country and which party is mostly made up of privileged old white men and redneck gun nut religious zealot lunatics who hunger for the america their parents knew back when "n*****s knew their place". We argue over pointless and short sighted shit like gun control and abortion and "religious freedom" instead of dealing with actual issues that have much larger and more widespread and long term consequences.

If we let things like low wages, poor healthcare, underfunded and undervalued education, bad working conditions, weakened environmental protections and unregulated financial bullshit to keep going on, there won't be a country left. There will simply be a controlling hierarchy and a bunch of stupid slaves. Innovation will slowly die as we lose more and more of our best and brightest to the continuing battle against intelligence. As our supply of innovators dwindle, our ability to continue leading the world will die. Eventually all that will be left is fast food, garbage and depression. Those who would eschew thinking of a future that they won't even be a part of for personal gains right now are dooming the future of our nation and world in favor of greed and pie in the sky bullshit.

God ain't coming back to save us. The rapture isn't going to protect anyone from their own self destruction, and whatever fucking deity anyone believes in isn't going to give a flying fuck about any of this shit, because they don't exist. It's time for us to evolve beyond small brain blind faith and make whatever sacrifices are needed in order to ensure that none of these fictional gods end up being the last hope humanity has left. We have to stop thinking only of what we ourselves want personally and start addressing what we as a whole need instead.

If we continue to cling to the past, we won't be able to take hold of the future.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I'm just so tired of how fucking stupid everything is every time Republicans hold power. History says all that needs to be said about that. Nobody gives a shit about history though, because nobody wants to look past what their coal miner daddy told them about the bad men trying to get them for all they're worth and think rationally. Either that or they were born too privileged to even know what it is like to have to earn your way.

I'm done.

Wowza...

Bro...that is uh...as out there as Trump is.

I think the first point of deviation in our political views comes from

If we let things like low wages, poor healthcare, underfunded and undervalued education, bad working conditions, weakened environmental protections and unregulated financial bullshit to keep going on,

You think the government can fix these things.

I agree all of them need to be fixed, I think they are private problems beyond the ability of government to fix.

Please tell me 1 single solitary government entity or program that operates efficiently. On any level state or federal.

I agree healthcare needs to improve for all. But universal health or single payer? I mean lets turn doctor's offices into the DMV, it works so well.
There is no point in even debating the spiritual part of your diatribe. That isnt the core of the issue.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It's amazing that people are latching onto some things Cohen said as proof there was no collusion with Russia and other things while at the same time tearing him apart as a pathological liar and unreliable witness.

When you tell a truth in the service of a lie, it's generally a small truth to cover a greater lie.

"He didn't collude with Russia" as the truth to make people swallow the lie that, what, he paid off a porn star at Trump's direction? You've got that ass-backwards if you're trying to undermine his credibility.

There are three options here.

1) The President consistently surrounds himself with the worst people because those are the only people who will have anything to do with him (and that says as much about him as about them);

2) Cohen is the most incompetent liar ever, surpassed, I suppose, only by all the other "liars" who have turned coat on Trump in the last two years, and that really just redounds to the first point: these are the people who will give him the time of day, and that means he's either a mark, or One of Them;

3) Cohen is nailing Trump's ass to the wall, and when he said "I don't have direct proof," it didn't mean "he didn't do it," but rather "I don't have the receipts but here's all the other shit he's lied about where I can prove otherwise, draw your own conclusions."

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I agree all of them need to be fixed, I think they are private problems beyond the ability of government to fix.

Then why are they doing uniquely bad (pedestrian in some, if you want to be kind) in the US compared to other big, industrial countries even before the Trump madness ? Either your citizens are uniquely terrible human beings and incompetent (for not being able to fix it) or because the framework in place sucks.



On Health Care: It is crazy that the debate is "private or not private" when essentially every developed country mixes the 2 to varying degrees and all have better coverage/benefits than the US in the end.


https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019...harris-sanders

[JPhillips]

Looks like Trudeau in Canada is in a shit ton of trouble for pressuring the AG to drop an investigation of an ally and then firing her.

[molson]

Originally Posted by whomario

On Health Care: It is crazy that the debate is "private or not private" when essentially every developed country mixes the 2 to varying degrees and all have better coverage/benefits than the US in the end.

Debate over eliminating private health insurance offers a false choice - Vox

I don't expert conservatives to be impressed by other countries' governments, but I'd think at least SOME true fiscal conservatives would prefer a single-payer system which is much cheaper for taxpayers. Conservatives instead cling to a healthcare system that costs U.S. taxpayers more, per capita, than any other country's system in the world, by far.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is the proper response “Fake News” or something about a “politically motivated prosecution”. Need to refresh my playbook

both

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't expert conservatives to be impressed by other countries' governments, but I'd think at least SOME true fiscal conservatives would prefer a single-payer system which is both much cheaper for taxpayers. Conservatives instead cling to a healthcare system that costs U.S. taxpayers more, per capita, than any other country's system in the world, by far.

I think our system definitely needs to be fixed.
Im not smart enough to know how nor will I pretend to be.


I think the problem is we are "half-pregnant"....its not truly private and capitalistic and its not truly public and socialistic. I certainly fall on one side of that debate, but Im at the point where I feel like either side would be better than what we have today.


But...I also dont want to glamorize the alternate. I have friends in the UK who talk about having the flu and the next doctor appointment being 3 weeks out.



I do think, for all of the patriotic feelings I have that American bureaucracy is a special level of dysfunction not found everywhere else.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't expert conservatives to be impressed by other countries' governments, but I'd think at least SOME true fiscal conservatives would prefer a single-payer system which is both much cheaper for taxpayers. Conservatives instead cling to a healthcare system that costs U.S. taxpayers more, per capita, than any other country's system in the world, by far.

The fact that the Trump administration has done everything they can to weaken and make it more difficult to sign up for ACA Healthcare and its still popular and an improvement says a lot about the current state of Healthcare in this country.

[Thomkal]

Trump Org CFO Allen Weisselberg to testify before House Intelligence Committee. They had wanted him too for months, but with Cohen name dropping him alot in his testimony, they pushed forward on it.


Attention Required! | Cloudflare

[miami_fan]

The question I am struggling with is who has the incentive to "fix" the healthcare system in the U.S.? Obviously the people receiving services say they want a better healthcare system but I don't know if They are incentivized to fix the current system so why would the government? I don't see an incentive for the professionals that provide medical services or the insurance companies either.

[Thomkal]

And Felix Sater will appear on March 14

[JPhillips]

EXCLUSIVE: The White House chief of staff at the time, John Kelly, wrote a contemporaneous internal memo about how he had been “ordered” by the president to give Jared Kushner the top-secret clearance. w/@maggieNYT @adamgoldmanNYT @anniekarni https://t.co/cDkJjvVzgh

— Michael S. Schmidt (@nytmike) February 28, 2019

This is so bad Ben Sasse may express concern.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I do think, for all of the patriotic feelings I have that American bureaucracy is a special level of dysfunction not found everywhere else.

From my dealings with the post office, DMV, police, etc., I do not know why I would want our government more involved with anything.

Also, I have family in the UK. They were pleased when my grand uncle had heart issues it was here in the States because they could go in and have it fixed, rather than "wait in queue" as they put it.

[cuervo72]

From my experiences working as a contractor, I would say the biggest problems I saw were:

1. Resources. Especially at my old job, we were always working with old hardware, old software, and continual attrition. There were always things that were identified that could be done to help with processes, but too many competing priorities. I only had so much time. Or if I did sometimes have time, I didn't have the go-ahead to do something because money hadn't been approved for it (even if I was going to be there anyway).

2. Leadership turnover. And related to that, new leadership wanting to make their mark. New higher-ups come in, and they want to do things their way. Old projects which had been invested in by previous leadership would wither (who cares if they were good or not), new ones would pop up. New leadership wouldn't necessarily have the benefit of knowing what wouldn't work or had been tried before, so the same mistakes would be repeated.

3. Territorialism. Branches of organizations competing with each other or operating without knowledge of what the others were doing. This resulted either in repeated efforts (how many ticketing systems do we need, exactly?) building things which already existed or supporting multiples of the same thing.

As a contractor, you have little say over these issues because Feds > all, and if you annoy the wrong people you are easily replaced. Of course most of the work force (at least technical) is contract.

-----

So, the public sector vs private sector. Like the post office, DMV, etc. (which sometimes could simply be alleviated by...having more staff). Is private sector really that much better? You guys like customer service calls with AT&T, Verizon, etc.? Have you never gotten annoyed waiting at the deli counter? Ever waited 1.5 hours to get examined before surgery? ( ) Spent half a day waiting for a cable guy, or for the dealership to actually get your car in one of the service bays?

[PilotMan]

Enron? Enron anyone?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Also, I have family in the UK. They were pleased when my grand uncle had heart issues it was here in the States because they could go in and have it fixed, rather than "wait in queue" as they put it.

Counterpoint, my mum had cancer three times and got world class care for nothing each time, where we probably would have been bankrupted sometime during treatment #2 in the States.

Also (and this point is to CU above as well), presumably your family knows that they can do exactly what they probably ended up doing in the States and paying for it, either via something that is very similar to paying for health insurance here or just out of pocket?

The NHS is wildly inconsistent between areas, and absolutely has it's problems but as a free national health care system that keeps millions alive, generally in better health than they are in the US and prioritizes critical problems, I still think it's absolutely incredible.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, the public sector vs private sector. Like the post office, DMV, etc. (which sometimes could simply be alleviated by...having more staff). Is private sector really that much better? You guys like customer service calls with AT&T, Verizon, etc.? Have you never gotten annoyed waiting at the deli counter? Ever waited 1.5 hours to get examined before surgery? ( ) Spent half a day waiting for a cable guy, or for the dealership to actually get your car in one of the service bays?

I think the main difference there is that innovation and disruption is generally possible and incentivized in the private sector, whereas it's generally not possible and disincentivized by the nature of government.

But I definitely agree with your point, it's human nature for things to get bloated over a certain size, for inefficiencies to manifest themselves at scale and for people who have huge realms of power and budget to protect it at all cost rather than prioritize the interests of the company. Government is just the worst example of that, but there certainly are enough of them in the private sector to make you scream as well.

I'm a contractor at a very well-known large company that blurs the lines between private and public sector but is technically private and I'm very familiar with what you are talking about. Mercifully I'm moving on after next week, it's been a very challenging 9 months.

[Atocep]

The Kushner clearance story should be massive scandal.

Just another day in the Trump administration though.

[spleen1015]

It surprises me that someone can get a clearance just because the President said so.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

From my dealings with the post office, DMV, police, etc., I do not know why I would want our government more involved with anything.

Also, I have family in the UK. They were pleased when my grand uncle had heart issues it was here in the States because they could go in and have it fixed, rather than "wait in queue" as they put it.

This completely ignorant, maybe they have no idea for how medicine works. If you are in the UK and you have heart problems, you do not have to wait in some imaginary queue to get examined and medicine.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by miked

This completely ignorant, maybe they have no idea for how medicine works. If you are in the UK and you have heart problems, you do not have to wait in some imaginary queue to get examined and medicine.

Not if you have known problems. But to discover those problems intiially, yeah you may very well be waiting weeks to be see.

[thesloppy]

If I tried to make a non-urgent appointment with my primary care doc right now, I would undoubtedly have to wait AT LEAST a month, even if I assured them I was paying in uncut unicorn dust.



Are y'all living somewhere where the health demands are so low that you can actually get a same-day appointment with your GP? Conversely, are you saying same-day, urgent care clinics don't exist in the UK (as far as I understand, they do), or are we just arguing about the standards of some hypothetical American private healthcare system that nobody actually receives?

[Lathum]

My sister in law, an American, lives in England with her husband and 2 kids who are British. She raves about how much better the health care system there is.

[miked]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Not if you have known problems. But to discover those problems intiially, yeah you may very well be waiting weeks to be see.

This is still not entirely true. If you need to see a doctor (like your blood pressure is 180/100) you will get to see a doctor (and no, not an expensive ER visit like the states).

I tried to make an orthopedic appointment at the hospital in which I work here in Atlanta and I was given an appointment time of >3months. I have also been given appointments of 2+ months for other issues including imaging tests. I also tried to make an appointment to get snipped (yay) and it was over a 6 month wait. Long lines are everywhere, but people who need to see doctors in both places generally do.

[spleen1015]

So, how would this work outside of the US where they have universal healthcare like the UK?

My daughter back in November started to feel some pain in her left leg during a softball tournament. Monday morning my wife calls our ortho and she's seen that day.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Not if you have known problems. But to discover those problems intiially, yeah you may very well be waiting weeks to be see.

Unless you go private, which can work on the exact same parameters as the US, either insurance or out of pocket based.

And yeah, getting a doctors appointment if you just have unknown symptoms in the US (or more accurately getting multiple appointments and referrals) isn't exactly a utopia or painless process either. Not that I'm suggesting the NHS is either, but having had 10+ years living under both systems at this point, I know which I'd prefer.

[PilotMan]

There has to be a certain amount of benefit to knowing that when you go to the hospital that you're not going to come out bankrupt. And just the overall benefit of access to regular health care in general, that is one of the first things that gets skipped when you're poor.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

So, how would this work outside of the US where they have universal healthcare like the UK?

My daughter back in November started to feel some pain in her left leg during a softball tournament. Monday morning my wife calls our ortho and she's seen that day.

I'm assuming this is because you have good enough insurance that you can go directly to an ortho, or were comfortable paying the out of pocket costs to do so. Which is definitely an option in the UK. For many people with other insurance in the US, that option to go directly to a specialist isn't there.

On the NHS, I definitely think you wouldn't be seeing that kind of "go straight to specialist" option, but I guess it does depend on your situation and how critical you felt the problem was. Obviously the option of going into an ER would be there for you.

I think there's too many variables and hypotheticals in any discussion to really make a solid statement either way, but it does annoy me some of the BS that gets thrown around about how bad the healthcare in the UK is just to prove a political point.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by miked

This completely ignorant, maybe they have no idea for how medicine works. If you are in the UK and you have heart problems, you do not have to wait in some imaginary queue to get examined and medicine.

All I can relate is what they said at the time. They were in VA at the time visiting Civil War battlefields when the issue cropped up. They went to a local hospital and had it taken care of.

EDIT: Now in my personal case, when I blew up my back last year, it took me 3 months to get in and see a GP doctor for the first time. I had to jump through hoops to get to see the back doctor because they wanted a referral from my GP, not from the ER. This was due to their procedures not my insurance. I wound up having to see a nurse practitioner, who still took a week to get into, to get the referral to see the back doctor. I wound up waiting 3-4 weeks before getting to see the back doctor.

[Radii]

We have over 30 million uninsured in this country.

Even for those insured, a study published in the American Journal of Medicine showed that 42% of patients diagnosed with cancer will exhaust their life's savings within a 2 year period. "Across the population, the average patient saw a loss of $92,098" ( Study Link Here )

We can argue all we want about the imperfections in the British system or the canadian system and maybe learn from them and see if we can improve upon them, but the basis for any discussion of healthcare to me seems to start from a point of reference that we in the United States do healthcare worse than any other developed nation in the world. Adopting any other nation's imperfect system would be a dramatic, drastic and instant improvement over a system here that ignores an embarrassingly large percentage of its citizens, and bankrupts millions who have done everything right their entire lives.

As for those who fear government run healthcare that much, I would remind you that unless you plan on dying before 65, we're all going to end up on government healthcare in the end, and despite the fact that it ONLY insures the oldest and most high risk among us, it functions remarkably decently.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Radii

We have over 30 million uninsured in this country.

Even for those insured, a study published in the American Journal of Medicine showed that 42% of patients diagnosed with cancer will exhaust their life's savings within a 2 year period. "Across the population, the average patient saw a loss of $92,098" ( Study Link Here )

We can argue all we want about the imperfections in the British system or the canadian system and maybe learn from them and see if we can improve upon them, but the basis for any discussion of healthcare to me seems to start from a point of reference that we in the United States do healthcare worse than any other developed nation in the world. Adopting any other nation's imperfect system would be a dramatic, drastic and instant improvement over a system here that ignores an embarrassingly large percentage of its citizens, and bankrupts millions who have done everything right their entire lives.

As for those who fear government run healthcare that much, I would remind you that unless you plan on dying before 65, we're all going to end up on government healthcare in the end, and despite the fact that it ONLY insures the oldest and most high risk among us, it functions remarkably decently.

Thank you, working in the health insurance industry for almost 30 years it baffles me why so many people can't fucking grasp this. You can level plenty of legitimate criticism against the ACA, but the concept itself was both needed and practical. The implementation and structure, poor.

But regardless, that should be the model that we should be looking at and comparing it to Canada, Britain and others to find a sweet spot between affordability, practicality and outcome of care.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

If I tried to make a non-urgent appointment with my primary care doc right now, I would undoubtedly have to wait AT LEAST a month, even if I assured them I was paying in uncut unicorn dust.



Are y'all living somewhere where the health demands are so low that you can actually get a same-day appointment with your GP? Conversely, are you saying same-day, urgent care clinics don't exist in the UK (as far as I understand, they do), or are we just arguing about the standards of some hypothetical American private healthcare system that nobody actually receives?

I can see my GP within a week, but specialists take forever. My GP wanted me to get an endoscopy and sleep study done. For both the earliest appointment was 3 months. I got lucky with the endoscopy and called up for the secondary location and was able to get it done in a month for just a 10 miles further drive.

Though when I try to schedule a physical with my GP it takes 4 months.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Radii

We can argue all we want about the imperfections in the British system or the canadian system and maybe learn from them and see if we can improve upon them, but the basis for any discussion of healthcare to me seems to start from a point of reference that we in the United States do healthcare worse than any other developed nation in the world.

My quibble with this is that I think we do very well on the actual health care part, it's the payment system that's completely FUBAR.

Then I think way too much focus gets spent on how to pay for exorbitant costs that are often created by administrative bloat and poorly designed incentives or checks and balances, instead of how to reduce the amount of administration, or better incentivize efficiency. If people want to disagree on that part, cool let's have a discussion, but I reflexively oppose people who say the whole American health care system is broken because every interaction I've had with actual health care professionals has been quite quick and satisfactory, both when I was on my parents very good insurance, and when I was on my own through MassHealth.

Just like the larger economy I'd love for a very capitalistic system with limited but effective oversight that prevents monopolies etc, but I think we claim to be capitalist but don't allow the creative destruction to take place and that hurts us more in the long run than the short term pain of even very large businesses failing due to corrupt and/or ineffective practices. Big businesses being able to buy influence is a huge problem, but just allowing the government to take over those things doesn't solve the issue because they don't have to buy influence they already intrinsically have it, and despite many civil servants being good people they aren't all good people, and they obviously don't have the same urgency to innovate and get better when there are no competitors and no punishment for putting out an average product.