A topic about something (includes a poll)

oykib · 05-02-2003, 08:37 AM

So the Red Sox are catching a lot of heat for their use of the closer-by-committee...

The manager has already made indications that he's going to jump ship on the idea.

So what is the best use of the best pitcher in your bullpen.

1. Ninth-inning save situations

2. For the most critical situations when trying to maintain a lead

3. For the most critical situations when tied trying to maintain a lead

4. Any close and late critical situations (including the times when the team is trailing by a run or two)

5. Other (please explain in a post)

andy m · 05-02-2003, 08:56 AM

the Red Sox manager is weak for quiting on it so quick. one month into the season is not enough time to give it a chance, but because it has not worked 100% and it's a "non baseball man" type idea, the writers will rag on him about it because he is just not playing baseball "by the numbers" or any of that old claptrap which writers love to wheel out.

it's a great idea, just needs a little tightening up and maybe better personnel.

scooper · 05-02-2003, 08:58 AM

I voted other. That other would be mowing the grass in a football stadium.

Alan T · 05-02-2003, 09:01 AM

I think that alot of people confused the failures of the Red Sox bullpen on the wrong issue so far this year. I do not necessarily believe that it is the closer by committee that is the problem. It is the talent of the players they chose to make up that committee.

If in their prime, you had a closer by committee of Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, Rollie Fingers... I bet it would be a pretty good committee.

The fact is that the Red Sox chose to pick people with arm problems (Alam Embree, Chad Fox, Ramiro Mendoza) and other unproven quantities to make up the committee. The only one i saw as solid coming in was Timlin. Sure there is high upside on some of these guys, but you take a risk when going with guys that you are not sure of.

I would love to see the closer by committee tried with sure pitchers, but I doubt that it would happen because there just is not enough talent to go around where 30 teams can have 4 or 5 guys that are very dependable in the bullpen.

I just get upset at the Red Sox fans getting annoyed at the wrong reason. They should get upset that the management chose not to spend the money on Urbina rather than the system which might not be to blame.

MizzouRah · 05-02-2003, 09:19 AM

I voted Critical Close and Late situations (not necessarily the ninth inning) with your team tied or leading.

I use my best reliever to either keep me tied late in the game or keep the lead in a close game before my closer comes in. I guess I take it as 'best reliever' = 'setup' pitcher.

Todd

QuikSand · 05-02-2003, 09:30 AM

Todd, so you're saying that you would use your second-best reliever as a full-time closer? Interesting - I really haven't heard that argument before.

I voted the same way you did, because I am generally persuaded by the notion that you use your best weapon when you most need him. In my mind, that is best described by the third option above. But for me, that would pretty frequently be the ninth inning, but not exclusively so.

I also agree that it's something of a shame that the BoSox tried this approach with such a group of suspect arms. I'd much rather have seen this come from a team that had three or four pretty dependable relievers - where you might actually see some "managing" involved. (Go to the strikeout guy when you have critical runners in scoring position, but go to the sinkerballer when you might need a double play... that sort of thing)

Alan T · 05-02-2003, 09:53 AM

The ideal team that I can think of in recent past would be the 'nasty boys' from Cincinatti, where they had a few really nice arms and tough competitors.

MizzouRah · 05-02-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Todd, so you're saying that you would use your second-best reliever as a full-time closer? Interesting - I really haven't heard that argument before.

I voted the same way you did, because I am generally persuaded by the notion that you use your best weapon when you most need him. In my mind, that is best described by the third option above. But for me, that would pretty frequently be the ninth inning, but not exclusively so.

I also agree that it's something of a shame that the BoSox tried this approach with such a group of suspect arms. I'd much rather have seen this come from a team that had three or four pretty dependable relievers - where you might actually see some "managing" involved. (Go to the strikeout guy when you have critical runners in scoring position, but go to the sinkerballer when you might need a double play... that sort of thing)

Yes, currrently I use my 4 1/2 star rated reliever (I am managing the Brewers in ootp5, I think the pitcher's name is Durocher) for ANY trouble, he gets the most innings of work, while De Los Santos (?) is my closer, but not near as good as Durocher. Sometimes, I also switch Durocher with Tim Worrell if he's tired as Worrell is a great setup man as well.

Quote:

I am generally persuaded by the notion that you use your best weapon when you most need him

That's the exact way I see things. In closers I look for guys with high velocity and strikeout ratings, I don't have that luxury yet with the Brewers, but he's not my best pitcher by any means, just a guy who comes in throwing fire.

Todd

View Poll Results: What is the best use for your best reliever
Ninth inning 'save' situations	1	5.56%
Critical Close and Late situations (not necessarily the ninth inning) with your team leading	3	16.67%
Critical Close and Late situations (not necessarily the ninth inning) with your team tied or leading	7	38.89%
Critical Close and Late situations (not necessarily the ninth inning) with your team trailing, tied or leading	5	27.78%
Other ( explain in a post )	2	11.11%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

05-02-2003, 08:56 AM	#2
andy m High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: norwich, UK	the Red Sox manager is weak for quiting on it so quick. one month into the season is not enough time to give it a chance, but because it has not worked 100% and it's a "non baseball man" type idea, the writers will rag on him about it because he is just not playing baseball "by the numbers" or any of that old claptrap which writers love to wheel out. it's a great idea, just needs a little tightening up and maybe better personnel. __________________ mostly harmless FOFL 2009 champs - Norwich Quagmire

05-02-2003, 09:01 AM	#4
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I think that alot of people confused the failures of the Red Sox bullpen on the wrong issue so far this year. I do not necessarily believe that it is the closer by committee that is the problem. It is the talent of the players they chose to make up that committee. If in their prime, you had a closer by committee of Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, Rollie Fingers... I bet it would be a pretty good committee. The fact is that the Red Sox chose to pick people with arm problems (Alam Embree, Chad Fox, Ramiro Mendoza) and other unproven quantities to make up the committee. The only one i saw as solid coming in was Timlin. Sure there is high upside on some of these guys, but you take a risk when going with guys that you are not sure of. I would love to see the closer by committee tried with sure pitchers, but I doubt that it would happen because there just is not enough talent to go around where 30 teams can have 4 or 5 guys that are very dependable in the bullpen. I just get upset at the Red Sox fans getting annoyed at the wrong reason. They should get upset that the management chose not to spend the money on Urbina rather than the system which might not be to blame. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

05-02-2003, 09:53 AM	#7
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	The ideal team that I can think of in recent past would be the 'nasty boys' from Cincinatti, where they had a few really nice arms and tough competitors. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

05-02-2003, 08:58 AM	#3
scooper College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cinn City	I voted other. That other would be mowing the grass in a football stadium.

05-02-2003, 09:19 AM	#5
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	I voted Critical Close and Late situations (not necessarily the ninth inning) with your team tied or leading. I use my best reliever to either keep me tied late in the game or keep the lead in a close game before my closer comes in. I guess I take it as 'best reliever' = 'setup' pitcher. Todd

05-02-2003, 09:30 AM	#6
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Todd, so you're saying that you would use your second-best reliever as a full-time closer? Interesting - I really haven't heard that argument before. I voted the same way you did, because I am generally persuaded by the notion that you use your best weapon when you most need him. In my mind, that is best described by the third option above. But for me, that would pretty frequently be the ninth inning, but not exclusively so. I also agree that it's something of a shame that the BoSox tried this approach with such a group of suspect arms. I'd much rather have seen this come from a team that had three or four pretty dependable relievers - where you might actually see some "managing" involved. (Go to the strikeout guy when you have critical runners in scoring position, but go to the sinkerballer when you might need a double play... that sort of thing)

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