Werewolf XXXI: House of Frankenstein (Game Over)

[molson]

Dola for bold

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

[Swaggs]

This is going like I hoped it wouldn't.

We now have three players with votes. Perfect for splitting things up and then coming in at the last minute and swinging the vote to preserve the wolf on the line.

[bulletsponge]

ok im goina vote now.

Tangle is too low key. now he could ba another Farrah and be a villager, or be like Greyroofoo and a wolf. but forget that, i havnt guessed right yet. but how Swaggs isnt getting more attention is beyond me, so

Vote Swaggs

besides he doesnt like me, and the feelings mutual

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

This is going like I hoped it wouldn't.

We now have three players with votes. Perfect for splitting things up and then coming in at the last minute and swinging the vote to preserve the wolf on the line.

Actually, I show the voting to be:

3 - SnDvls - Swaggs, ChiefRum, SnDvls
1 - molson - Grammaticus
1 - Grammaticus - molson
1 - Swaggs - bulletsponge

not voted: Dodgerchick, tanglewood, Daddytorgo, Barkeep

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Actually, I show the voting to be:

3 - SnDvls - Swaggs, ChiefRum, SnDvls
1 - molson - Grammaticus
1 - Grammaticus - molson
1 - Swaggs - bulletsponge

not voted: Dodgerchick, tanglewood, Daddytorgo, Barkeep

aww crap, i forgot about Barkeep! ahh well, ill stick with Swaggs for now

[molson]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

This is going like I hoped it wouldn't.

We now have three players with votes. Perfect for splitting things up and then coming in at the last minute and swinging the vote to preserve the wolf on the line.

Interesting that Sndvls, who you're voting for (Last minute vote swinging), has never been accused of the strategy you describe, while Gram has.

[molson]

I'm a mess without editing - I meant that last minute vote swinging is the strategy you've described, I didn't mean to imply you're doing it here - parenthetical's in the wrong place.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

How many times have you changed your votes?

If you really want to know

Number of days people have switched votes:

3 Molson on day one, two and three
3 Grammaticus on day one, five and six
3 DodgerChick on day three, five and six
2 SnDvls on day one and six
2 DaddyTorgo on day two and three
1 Tanglewood on day one
1 Bulletsponge on day three
0 Barkeep/Schmidty
0 Swaggs
0 Chief Rum

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

If you really want to know

Number of days people have switched votes:

3 Molson on day one, two and three
3 Grammaticus on day one, five and six
3 DodgerChick on day three, five and six
2 SnDvls on day one and six
2 DaddyTorgo on day two and three
1 Tanglewood on day one
1 Bulletsponge on day three
0 Barkeep/Schmidty
0 Swaggs
0 Chief Rum

wow, isnt a wolf trait to change votes late to ensure victory? is SnDvls setting us up by keeping it close then at the last second changing his vote to a tie or to give someone else the lead

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

If you really want to know

Number of days people have switched votes:

3 Molson on day one, two and three
3 Grammaticus on day one, five and six
3 DodgerChick on day three, five and six
2 SnDvls on day one and six
2 DaddyTorgo on day two and three
1 Tanglewood on day one
1 Bulletsponge on day three
0 Barkeep/Schmidty
0 Swaggs
0 Chief Rum

Actually, Molson has also changed votes on day six. So, the corrected totals are:

Number of days people have switched votes:

4 Molson on day one, two, three and six
3 Grammaticus on day one, five and six
3 DodgerChick on day three, five and six
2 SnDvls on day one and six
2 DaddyTorgo on day two and three
1 Tanglewood on day one
1 Bulletsponge on day three
0 Barkeep/Schmidty
0 Swaggs
0 Chief Rum

[bulletsponge]

hmm either molson is wishy-washy, or hes a flee bitten varmit

[tanglewood]

Sorry I haven't been more active over the weekend guys, I've been busy with a few things as the new university year is throttling ever closer. Anyway..

Vote Grammaticus

I thought he was acting a bit fishy on the first few days, but after he caught flak for it he seemed to pull back slightly and let others take the lead. Adding those intial suspicions with his late vote switch last night I think he is the most suspect candidate we have avaliable at the moment.

[Grammaticus]

I really think Molson is our best bet. Molson is the closest thing to being on everyone's suspicious list. I'm concerned over his vote yesterday. He spoke about how suspicious he was of Sndvls, then once somebody else brought up Farrah as a suspect, he laid a vote on her. Prior he did not express much of a suspicion in her. Does not add up.

For the day 5 vote, I think he left his vote on Farrah because SnDvls vote was already on him in the tie situation. Meaning SnDvl could not move his vote onto Molson for a plus one, but Molson could move his vote off Farrah onto SnDvl causing a plus one shift and breaking a tie between himself and SnDvl. Next scenario, what if BK voted Molson. Well, Tanglewood was comfortable leaving his vote on Molson to create a three way tie, because Barkeep said he would likely vote for SnDvl and then again if BK voted Molson instead, Molson could just move off Farrah and onto SnDvls and of course Tangle could always move off Mason if need be to save him as a security blanket, giving them a 2 vote buffer to save Molson if needed.

I see a level of trust for the following:

Barkeep/Schmidty - from the original COT. Everyone has been good so far, Barkeep and myself are left.
BulletSponge/DodgersChick - Neither feels like a wolf and feels right from a new player perspective. If they were wolves, I think they would be quite. If one is a wolf, there is no evidence and they would be the least experienced. i.e. game savvy.

Behavior Level of Trust
Swaggs - Analysis seems to be well thought out, questions Molsons vote on Farrah out of the blue, asking why he switched from SnDvls on a "gut" instinct. Points out how bad it was on the day 5 vote, because we were all over the place. He ended up being correct, because Farrah ended up getting lynched instead of SnDvls or Molson.
SnDvl - Moved to support Blade. Several confirmed good guys seemed to think he was okay. Anxiety has Path and SnDvls on his slightly trusted list for not going after Blade and it looks like that was a good call.


Finger Of Suspicion
Molson - as stated - everyone has been suspicious of him. Pushes to out Masons = bad for villager, pushes to paint the COT as a bad thing and it looks like the COT was on target. Then makes a post today saying everyone is suspicious again spreading general uncertainty and supporting multiple theory's in order to keep people divided. SnDvls theory of Barkeep, SnDvl, Torgo, Swaggs and me having Molson listed as a baddie greatly decreasing his likelihood of being a Mason a good reason to look at him. Molson votes the same as Tanglewood on days 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then they don't vote together on day 5 after I post the fact they have voted in unison every day. To top that off the wolves take a pass on killing them as potential Masons voting together. Why, because one or both are wolves and not Masons voting together.

Tanglewood - Seems to be linked to Molson in early vote play, Path thought both Molson and Tangle suspicious. Tangle tried to discredit theories of Blade, Path and Anxiety by saying they were just normal people with nothing to go on. Tangle generally supported any theory that did not point the Finger of suspicion at himself, generally keeping multiple theories going to keep the confusion level up.
Chief Rum - Avoiding voting day one, says he did not have any analysis but came out strong at Blade

Not sure how to lean regarding DaddyTorgo


Barkeep, Swaggs and SnDvl, I am curious to know what you think of this.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Sorry I haven't been more active over the weekend guys, I've been busy with a few things as the new university year is throttling ever closer. Anyway..

Vote Grammaticus

I thought he was acting a bit fishy on the first few days, but after he caught flak for it he seemed to pull back slightly and let others take the lead. Adding those intial suspicions with his late vote switch last night I think he is the most suspect candidate we have avaliable at the moment.

Is that the best analysis you have? Acting fishy without explaining the fishy behavior? What is it that makes you think I'm a wolf?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by molson

This is probably risky from a self-preservation standpoint to take a vote away from the leader, but I really think SNDVLS is the wrong direction.

Gram's voting has been been pretty blatantly suspicious. And I can see him taking away a vote from a villager leading the vote standings as a way to clean that up the voting record a bit. He might figure he'll look better if Sndvls is lynched a villager.

UNVOTE SNDVLS

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

Can you point out the suspicious behavior?

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm innocent Gram. Just a humble villager tending to my cofee bar in the village. But based on your excellent analysis of the situation in that post right there

VOTE MOLSON

with the caveat that i should be on around lynch-time and if movement is needed to avoid wolf-ish fixing of the vote I will be available to switch the vote (preferably to tangle, but to whoever if the wolves try to save molson)

[DaddyTorgo]

goddamm i misspelled coffee. that's what i get for not having enough yet today.

[st.cronin]

3 - SnDvls - Swaggs, ChiefRum, SnDvls
2 - molson - Grammaticus, DaddyTorgo
2 - Grammaticus - molson, tanglewood
1 - Swaggs - bulletsponge

not voted:
Dodgerchick
Barkeep

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I really think Molson is our best bet. Molson is the closest thing to being on everyone's suspicious list. I'm concerned over his vote yesterday. He spoke about how suspicious he was of Sndvls, then once somebody else brought up Farrah as a suspect, he laid a vote on her. Prior he did not express much of a suspicion in her. Does not add up.

For the day 5 vote, I think he left his vote on Farrah because SnDvls vote was already on him in the tie situation. Meaning SnDvl could not move his vote onto Molson for a plus one, but Molson could move his vote off Farrah onto SnDvl causing a plus one shift and breaking a tie between himself and SnDvl. Next scenario, what if BK voted Molson. Well, Tanglewood was comfortable leaving his vote on Molson to create a three way tie, because Barkeep said he would likely vote for SnDvl and then again if BK voted Molson instead, Molson could just move off Farrah and onto SnDvls and of course Tangle could always move off Mason if need be to save him as a security blanket, giving them a 2 vote buffer to save Molson if needed.

I see a level of trust for the following:

Barkeep/Schmidty - from the original COT. Everyone has been good so far, Barkeep and myself are left.
BulletSponge/DodgersChick - Neither feels like a wolf and feels right from a new player perspective. If they were wolves, I think they would be quite. If one is a wolf, there is no evidence and they would be the least experienced. i.e. game savvy.

Behavior Level of Trust
Swaggs - Analysis seems to be well thought out, questions Molsons vote on Farrah out of the blue, asking why he switched from SnDvls on a "gut" instinct. Points out how bad it was on the day 5 vote, because we were all over the place. He ended up being correct, because Farrah ended up getting lynched instead of SnDvls or Molson.
SnDvl - Moved to support Blade. Several confirmed good guys seemed to think he was okay. Anxiety has Path and SnDvls on his slightly trusted list for not going after Blade and it looks like that was a good call.


Finger Of Suspicion
Molson - as stated - everyone has been suspicious of him. Pushes to out Masons = bad for villager, pushes to paint the COT as a bad thing and it looks like the COT was on target. Then makes a post today saying everyone is suspicious again spreading general uncertainty and supporting multiple theory's in order to keep people divided. SnDvls theory of Barkeep, SnDvl, Torgo, Swaggs and me having Molson listed as a baddie greatly decreasing his likelihood of being a Mason a good reason to look at him. Molson votes the same as Tanglewood on days 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then they don't vote together on day 5 after I post the fact they have voted in unison every day. To top that off the wolves take a pass on killing them as potential Masons voting together. Why, because one or both are wolves and not Masons voting together.

Tanglewood - Seems to be linked to Molson in early vote play, Path thought both Molson and Tangle suspicious. Tangle tried to discredit theories of Blade, Path and Anxiety by saying they were just normal people with nothing to go on. Tangle generally supported any theory that did not point the Finger of suspicion at himself, generally keeping multiple theories going to keep the confusion level up.
Chief Rum - Avoiding voting day one, says he did not have any analysis but came out strong at Blade

Not sure how to lean regarding DaddyTorgo


Barkeep, Swaggs and SnDvl, I am curious to know what you think of this.

For a visual, here is the lay of the land on the day FIVE vote at the 3 way tie:

Molson – SnDvl, Swaggs, Tanglewood
Farrah – Molson, DogerC, Bullet
SnDvl - CR, DaddyT, Gramm

That leaves a three way tie. Tangle cast the last vote making it a three way. This gives Molson the best chance of survival. Just prior to Tanglewood placing his vote. Barkeep had said he would likely vote for SnDvl. Tangle is hoping he follows through. As you can see SnDvl can do nothing to affect things in that move.

Also, if Barkeep goes with Molson anyway, then Molson can move off Farrah and onto SnDvle re-tie, then Tangle can move off Molson for the save.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

For a visual, here is the lay of the land on the day FIVE vote at the 3 way tie:

Molson – SnDvl, Swaggs, Tanglewood
Farrah – Molson, DogerC, Bullet
SnDvl - CR, DaddyT, Gramm

That leaves a three way tie. Tangle cast the last vote making it a three way. This gives Molson the best chance of survival. Just prior to Tanglewood placing his vote. Barkeep had said he would likely vote for SnDvl. Tangle is hoping he follows through. As you can see SnDvl can do nothing to affect things in that move.

Also, if Barkeep goes with Molson anyway, then Molson can move off Farrah and onto SnDvle re-tie, then Tangle can move off Molson for the save.

i'm slightly confused there Gram. What conclusion are you drawing from that? That Molson is evil and Tangle likely so? If so, I agree.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm slightly confused there Gram. What conclusion are you drawing from that? That Molson is evil and Tangle likely so? If so, I agree.

Yes, in the above post I'm pointing out why I feel they are bad. Then showing in the day 5 vote why Molson and Tangle voted the way they did when the heat was likely going to be on molson.

It also shows why Molson wants a tie so late in the game. He wants to be able to keep within movement of his bloc to save him.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Yes, in the above post I'm pointing out why I feel they are bad. Then showing in the day 5 vote why Molson and Tangle voted the way they did when the heat was likely going to be on molson.

It also shows why Molson wants a tie so late in the game. He wants to be able to keep within movement of his bloc to save him.

Dola,

post 1713 explains lots of reasons for suspicion.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Yes, in the above post I'm pointing out why I feel they are bad. Then showing in the day 5 vote why Molson and Tangle voted the way they did when the heat was likely going to be on molson.

It also shows why Molson wants a tie so late in the game. He wants to be able to keep within movement of his bloc to save him.

aaaah. hey...who is there to PM for general WW advice again? I've got an idea that might help...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Dola,

post 1713 explains lots of reasons for suspicion.

yep. i read that post. excellent reasons for suspiscion. i'm especially enjoying seeing how things are worded, and what types of like...evidence people look for. that will be invaluable to me in future WW games.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

aaaah. hey...who is there to PM for general WW advice again? I've got an idea that might help...

you could go ahead and pm me if you'd like.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

aaaah. hey...who is there to PM for general WW advice again? I've got an idea that might help...

Hoops is probably the best bet for general WW advice as he doesnt have any ties to this game currently.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

aaaah. hey...who is there to PM for general WW advice again? I've got an idea that might help...

Hoopsguy is a good one to help you out. Saldana offerred also.

[tanglewood]

Okay, I didn't really want to do this today, but it seems like I'm going to have to. Time for a role reveal everybody!

I am a seer. Or a seer of sorts anyway. I can view people every night to see if they are good or evil. However, I do not get a view every night due to I'm guessing some kind of odds that St. Cronin rolls a die against or something every night. Also, as I can only see good or bad, I cannot tell whether someone is a mason or a normal villager, as I cannot tell if a bad player is a wolf, dracula or Dr. Reimann. So after that prelude, the essential news. Grammaticus is a badguy.

My views have gone:

Night One: Lathum - Blocked, no view (picked a random vet player)
Night Two: Schmidty/Barkeep - Good guy (conversation at the time re: COT, his PM post etc. wanted to confirm)
Night Three: Fouts - Good guy (was the other guy involved in the lynch vote between Lathum and Blade, of course he died that night so fat lot of use it was)
Night Four: Chief Rum - Blocked, no view (Blade's main suspect, in hindsight after it was revealed Blade was good I agreed with some of his points)
Night Five: Grammaticus - BAD GUY (late vote switch to condemn villager raised eyebrows)

I had hoped that Gramm's suspicious activity on it's own would lead to a lynch so I wouldn't have to reveal, but as the vote is currently split between three I feel I have to come out so we can nail him and at least have a chance at a win. I have a real fear that if we kill a villager today we have lost, and if not we will b e in a very precarious situation tomorrow. Of course, I can only see Good/Bad (I have specifically pressed St. Cronin on this, I cannot differentiate between a wolf, Dracula or the Dr.), so it may well be that Gramm is Dr. Reimann and we kill off a human anyway, but with this evidence, I don't think we can take a chance on not lynching him today.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to fire away. The bottom line is we must lynch Gramm today.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hoops is probably the best bet for general WW advice as he doesnt have any ties to this game currently.

That is probably good advice.

[DaddyTorgo]

so that would be a hidden role tanglewood? interesting.

[GoldenEagle]

SnDvls voted for himself?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Okay, I didn't really want to do this today, but it seems like I'm going to have to. Time for a role reveal everybody!

I am a seer. Or a seer of sorts anyway. I can view people every night to see if they are good or evil. However, I do not get a view every night due to I'm guessing some kind of odds that St. Cronin rolls a die against or something every night. Also, as I can only see good or bad, I cannot tell whether someone is a mason or a normal villager, as I cannot tell if a bad player is a wolf, dracula or Dr. Reimann. So after that prelude, the essential news. Grammaticus is a badguy.

My views have gone:

Night One: Lathum - Blocked, no view (picked a random vet player)
Night Two: Schmidty/Barkeep - Good guy (conversation at the time re: COT, his PM post etc. wanted to confirm)
Night Three: Fouts - Good guy (was the other guy involved in the lynch vote between Lathum and Blade, of course he died that night so fat lot of use it was)
Night Four: Chief Rum - Blocked, no view (Blade's main suspect, in hindsight after it was revealed Blade was good I agreed with some of his points)
Night Five: Grammaticus - BAD GUY (late vote switch to condemn villager raised eyebrows)

I had hoped that Gramm's suspicious activity on it's own would lead to a lynch so I wouldn't have to reveal, but as the vote is currently split between three I feel I have to come out so we can nail him and at least have a chance at a win. I have a real fear that if we kill a villager today we have lost, and if not we will b e in a very precarious situation tomorrow. Of course, I can only see Good/Bad (I have specifically pressed St. Cronin on this, I cannot differentiate between a wolf, Dracula or the Dr.), so it may well be that Gramm is Dr. Reimann and we kill off a human anyway, but with this evidence, I don't think we can take a chance on not lynching him today.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to fire away. The bottom line is we must lynch Gramm today.

i've got a question...how many words in your PM? (jk)

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Okay, I didn't really want to do this today, but it seems like I'm going to have to. Time for a role reveal everybody!

I am a seer. Or a seer of sorts anyway. I can view people every night to see if they are good or evil. However, I do not get a view every night due to I'm guessing some kind of odds that St. Cronin rolls a die against or something every night. Also, as I can only see good or bad, I cannot tell whether someone is a mason or a normal villager, as I cannot tell if a bad player is a wolf, dracula or Dr. Reimann. So after that prelude, the essential news. Grammaticus is a badguy.

My views have gone:

Night One: Lathum - Blocked, no view (picked a random vet player)
Night Two: Schmidty/Barkeep - Good guy (conversation at the time re: COT, his PM post etc. wanted to confirm)
Night Three: Fouts - Good guy (was the other guy involved in the lynch vote between Lathum and Blade, of course he died that night so fat lot of use it was)
Night Four: Chief Rum - Blocked, no view (Blade's main suspect, in hindsight after it was revealed Blade was good I agreed with some of his points)
Night Five: Grammaticus - BAD GUY (late vote switch to condemn villager raised eyebrows)

I had hoped that Gramm's suspicious activity on it's own would lead to a lynch so I wouldn't have to reveal, but as the vote is currently split between three I feel I have to come out so we can nail him and at least have a chance at a win. I have a real fear that if we kill a villager today we have lost, and if not we will b e in a very precarious situation tomorrow. Of course, I can only see Good/Bad (I have specifically pressed St. Cronin on this, I cannot differentiate between a wolf, Dracula or the Dr.), so it may well be that Gramm is Dr. Reimann and we kill off a human anyway, but with this evidence, I don't think we can take a chance on not lynching him today.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to fire away. The bottom line is we must lynch Gramm today.

Fake role reveal, huh? Now I know for a FACT that you are bad. Now the question is, are you Dr. Reiman or are you the Wolf. Molson followed you on day 2, 3, and 4. You followed him on day 1 and 6. Not sure and it may make a difference. Your role reveal may be a ploy to obviously lynch me but also move the lynch to you versus Molson if it the fake reveal is rejected.

Then, why the good reveal on Barkeep? Is he really good or are you setting us up to lynch him when you are uncovered as a liar either by getting lynched or a lynch which revleals my true role in the game?????

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i've got a question...how many words in your PM? (jk)

I'd say a few more words after the first four

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Fake role reveal, huh? Now I know for a FACT that you are bad. Now the question is, are you Dr. Reiman or are you the Wolf. Molson followed you on day 2, 3, and 4. You followed him on day 1 and 6. Not sure and it may make a difference. Your role reveal may be a ploy to obviously lynch me but also move the lynch to you versus Molson if it the fake reveal is rejected.

Then, why the good reveal on Barkeep? Is he really good or are you setting us up to lynch him when you are uncovered as a liar either by getting lynched or a lynch which revleals my true role in the game?????

OW. my goddamm head!

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

SnDvls voted for himself?

Yes and he can move it off and put it on Molson or Tangle. Just which one makes the most sense?

[Barkeep49]

Damn. I was all set to vote for molson after reading through everything when I get to the role reveal. I have decided that despite my disapproval of his tactics I will NOT be voting for SnDvls today. Which means I will vote for either molson or, now, Grammaticus.

[DaddyTorgo]

with all that to think about and the possibility of a late-vote being key

UNVOTE MOLSON

[Grammaticus]

Well Barkeep, now that you are here, what do you think?

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

OW. my goddamm head!

*sigh*

Just when I thought I knew who to vote for... my head hurts too

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Fake role reveal, huh? Now I know for a FACT that you are bad. Now the question is, are you Dr. Reiman or are you the Wolf. Molson followed you on day 2, 3, and 4. You followed him on day 1 and 6. Not sure and it may make a difference. Your role reveal may be a ploy to obviously lynch me but also move the lynch to you versus Molson if it the fake reveal is rejected.

Then, why the good reveal on Barkeep? Is he really good or are you setting us up to lynch him when you are uncovered as a liar either by getting lynched or a lynch which revleals my true role in the game?????

Well I have no clue if Molson is bad or not, but if I were to guess I'd say bad. I did vote for him yesterday after all. I didn't notice that he had been voting the same way as me until you pointed it out yesterday (I think) and that was certainly an intruiging oddity. Many times wolves have latched onto good players before and followed them in order to try and gain their trust, and I've never seen a pair of wolves stupid enough to sync their votes together for the first 5 days.

Of course, it all counts for naught as far as I'm concerned today, as you are bad and I'm determined that you will go down today.

[tanglewood]

dola

I mean good as in villager, not good as in skilled, just incase anyone thinks I'm overrating my very mediocre WW talent.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well Barkeep, now that you are here, what do you think?

I'm not honestly sure. I really was ready to vote for molson until this role reveal. I know I'm good. Tangle is saying as much. I don't like that all the other people, except for Grammaticus, are dead. However, as we are in the end game, and should have some numerical safety in that a wrong move today does not end the game (7-3, becomes 5-3) I think we should trust him. If he's lying then we vote Tangle and tomorrow and have a 4-2 game. Still pretty good odds for the good guys.

Vote Grammaticus

[DaddyTorgo]

ok here's a thought

tangle had to know this would cast suspiscion on himself. as a wolf, would he have risked that suspiscion and the risk of a backlash-vote by those who believed it was fake knowing that we were leaning towards molson anyways?

if he is indeed the seer than he only wins as a villager. so if tangle is actually a seer and is the villager he only benefits by telling us the truth.

if he is actually a wolf/reiman then yes he benefits by telling us a lie to try to put us onto a false path...BUT he has to balance that with the knowledge that we may "turn" on him and lynch him, resulting in his death...AND the fact that he either knows molson is guilty and is trying to throw suspiscion off of him...OR knows that Gram is good and if we believe in his seer role than we lose the game.

just laying that all out there...

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

aaaah. hey...who is there to PM for general WW advice again? I've got an idea that might help...

Make sure you follow through on that PM as you can get some general advice on "role reveals", That should be helpful in determining if you should believe this one or not.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Make sure you follow through on that PM as you can get some general advice on "role reveals", That should be helpful in determining if you should believe this one or not.

i followed through

[Barkeep49]

Daddy: Tangle's reveal is meant to save EITHER sndvls or molson, if tangle is indeed bad. I don't think we can rule out either possibility.

Now something I hadn't thought of, until just now, is that Tangle is Reminen. So if we lynch Gramatticus, 6-3, they kill a good guy, 5-3, we lynch Tangle, it becomes 4-3. They do a night kill it becomes 3-3. Suddenly they have won.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Daddy: Tangle's reveal is meant to save EITHER sndvls or molson, if tangle is indeed bad. I don't think we can rule out either possibility.

Now something I hadn't thought of, until just now, is that Tangle is Reminen. So if we lynch Gramatticus, 6-3, they kill a good guy, 5-3, we lynch Tangle, it becomes 4-3. They do a night kill it becomes 3-3. Suddenly they have won.

now that would be fucking devious and a great way for reiman to utilize his "i am evil and win with the evil but count as a human" dichotomy.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if he is actually a wolf/reiman then yes he benefits by telling us a lie to try to put us onto a false path...BUT he has to balance that with the knowledge that we may "turn" on him and lynch him, resulting in his death...AND the fact that he either knows molson is guilty and is trying to throw suspiscion off of him...OR knows that Gram is good and if we believe in his seer role than we lose the game.

just laying that all out there...

I totally agree with the bolded part. I think his role reveal is a plot to get us off of the molson trail. I think he's banking that some people vote for molson and maybe 1 towards him, but that the majority of the votes go towards Gramm.

I see it as a last minute tactic to save molson.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I totally agree with the bolded part. I think his role reveal is a plot to get us off of the molson trail. I think he's banking that some people vote for molson and maybe 1 towards him, but that the majority of the votes go towards Gramm.

I see it as a last minute tactic to save molson.

I tend to think Molson is the wolf and Tangle is Dr. Raimen. Tangle's role reveal is the evil sides ploy to best case lynch me, next best lynch Tangle.

I think we stay on Molson.