Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Comey]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah they put on the best match. Undertaker has owned the past few wrestlemanias. I am just saying that it is hard for them to create another UT/HHH type when guys are constantly getting pushed/buried. I mean whats up with Randy Orton right now? He was over for awhile and now hes losing to Kane? I just really dont understand what the bookers are after.

I dont think the wrestling is the actual problem. Fans are just confused by the entire product. Shameus looked to be getting over, then he sucked for a year, now he holds the #2 belt in the company.

Sheamus was buried because the guy who is the head of RAW hated him. Once he got moved to Smackdown, they began to build him back up. Kind of odd how that worked.

[Mota]

I think the kick-ass heel Sheamus is way better than the "joking about uncle Rufus" face. I don't feel he has that much momentum right now either, he certainly doesn't feel like a Royal Rumble winner.

Congrats on HHH and Undertaker for putting on another great match, I didn't think they could do it but they pulled it off. Even Cena / Rock had a good match, I certainly was not expecting them to go 30 minutes.

But it was definitely a boneheaded move to take the best modern worker in the business (Daniel Bryan) and destroy him in 18 seconds. I think he needed to be strong in his loss since he'd been staying alive every week via fluke. In his loss they needed to prove that he's still a darned good wrestler. Instead he has become the Honky Tonk Man and they're going to have to rehabilitate him big time.

[Neon_Chaos]

I find it mildly calming that John Cena has lost his past two WrestleMania matches.

[bulletsponge]

the fans are chanting Daniel Bryan all night on RAW. and even "YES!!" chants even during other matches. Now Sheamus comes out to a chorus of boos

[cmp]

Best RAW I've seen since the Attitude era. The crowd made this show amazing tonight.

[Mota]

I hope the plan isn't to do Brock Lesnar against Cena. The WWE is trying so hard to get the fans to cheer for Cena, often to the detriment of the overall product. But then they book him against guys that they KNOW will get cheered over him. CM Punk after the big angle, then The Rock, and possibly now Lesnar. If they want to get Cena to turn heel then DO IT ALREADY, if not then book him against unlikeable guys like Alberto Del Rio where maybe he'll get some cheers instead of getting booed out of the arena. No matter what they say, when your #1 face star gets booed by 80% of the crowd, it can't be good for the product.

[Comey]

It's alleged that Lesnar is set to work with Taker and eventually Rock down the line, over the WWE title (as Lesnar's deal runs through WM next year). With Austin/Punk picking up more steam for WM29, this seems to be the other big match.

[Toddzilla]

wow, Lesnar looked doughy

[cmp]

Originally Posted by Mota

I hope the plan isn't to do Brock Lesnar against Cena. The WWE is trying so hard to get the fans to cheer for Cena, often to the detriment of the overall product. But then they book him against guys that they KNOW will get cheered over him. CM Punk after the big angle, then The Rock, and possibly now Lesnar. If they want to get Cena to turn heel then DO IT ALREADY, if not then book him against unlikeable guys like Alberto Del Rio where maybe he'll get some cheers instead of getting booed out of the arena. No matter what they say, when your #1 face star gets booed by 80% of the crowd, it can't be good for the product.

Cena vs. Del Rio would so unbearably boring. The 80% that boos him would cheer for Del Rio in that situation though. The boos for Cena are not going away.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Mota

I think the kick-ass heel Sheamus is way better than the "joking about uncle Rufus" face. I don't feel he has that much momentum right now either, he certainly doesn't feel like a Royal Rumble winner.

Congrats on HHH and Undertaker for putting on another great match, I didn't think they could do it but they pulled it off. Even Cena / Rock had a good match, I certainly was not expecting them to go 30 minutes.

But it was definitely a boneheaded move to take the best modern worker in the business (Daniel Bryan) and destroy him in 18 seconds. I think he needed to be strong in his loss since he'd been staying alive every week via fluke. In his loss they needed to prove that he's still a darned good wrestler. Instead he has become the Honky Tonk Man and they're going to have to rehabilitate him big time.

Could have been an unknown injury to Bryan so they sped it up......

[bulletsponge]

during Cenas promo he mentioned how the fans thought he might turn on them after the lose. that got more cheers than anything else he said. the fans want him to turn badly, i know i do, but the managment wont let him. theyre taking the short term profits over long term potential $$

i do feel though that this all might be leading to a turn. a slow turn where he eventually gets frustrated with losing big matches and goes to the dark side

[molson]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

during Cenas promo he mentioned how the fans thought he might turn on them after the lose. that got more cheers than anything else he said. the fans want him to turn badly, i know i do, but the managment wont let him. theyre taking the short term profits over long term potential $$

i do feel though that this all might be leading to a turn. a slow turn where he eventually gets frustrated with losing big matches and goes to the dark side

It's funny (and interesting, and challenging) how they're booking for two different fanbases. They know that not turning Cena heel keeps him heel with that fanbase, and that turning him heel would actually turn him face with those fans. They've been playing around with that phenomenon on and off since 2006 (putting him ECW arena against RVD, against Edge in Toronto, against CM Punk in Chicago). It's not like 1992 and editing out the boos Hogan got. This is part of the act, by design. They want you to boo him and get excited for Rock and Lesnar and Punk before that. He is a heel, by defnition, with those fans, because they show up to see Cena get his comeuppance.

And I think they've also figured out that the way to get somebody over with that fanbase is to make them feel like their guy has been "wronged" or "held back". Punk was way more popular before they really pushed him, and now Bryan's taken over that role as the "guy who's being wronged". It's hard to judge by the Miami fans as those are the crazies that flew in all over the country for Mania and then went to that Raw, but I'm positive they knew what this would do for Bryan. Him losing in 17 seconds by fluke was way better for him than what everyone expected - the regular-old 10-minute coronation where Sheamus decisively wins at the end. It might of sucked for him that night, and for the fans that wanted to see that match, and it was risky to do this at Mania, and I get that, but he's getting a ton of love out of it now and I don't think that's an accident.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm... Sheamus.

While technically there wasn't an old gen wrestler in that one, they did let a new gen guy go over, claiming the #2 belt in the company in the bargain at that.

I guess I was disappointed that they didn't showcase him. I mean Brodus Clay got more time than him. Seemed like a great opportunity to put on a solid match and put Sheamus over. This looked like a gimmick and completely cheapened the belt even more than it already is. Just didn't make a lot of sense.

It does seem like WWE is a good position forward as long as they can center their product around guys who wrestled 10-15 years ago.

[Mota]

After thinking about it for a while, Molson may have gotten it right. Maybe Cena is the Bret Hart heel where he was a face in Canada but heel everywhere else. Still seems they're trying to get him a face reaction though but that could be a part of it. Or maybe we're looking waay deeper into this than the WWE and he's just lame

[RainMaker]

I don't think he's Bret Hart. I'd say more like Hogan before he turned heel.

[Maple Leafs]

If Cena turns heels, all the kids/girls who love him will be disappointed and all the guys who say they want him to go heel will complain that it wasn't done right.

He gets the biggest reaction on every show -- why would they change him up now?

[Suicane75]

I don't think the problem is that he needs to turn heel. I think the problem is that he needs to become a face adult men can get behind.

[Suicane75]

IE: Lesnar comes out looking like a monster badass and has this air of destruction to him and each time they cut to Cena he was clapping and smiling like the same fucking goof he's been for the past 5 years.

[RainMaker]

They don't really have to turn Cena heel. He already is heel. Acting like a babyface in front of all the boos is what makes him a good heel.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rest in peace Chief

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/sp...ned-wrestling-
fame-as-chief-jay-strongbow-dies.html

[molson]

I heard something weird about Jay Strongbow just last week on some podcast. I think Bryan Alvarez was interviewing an ex-WWF writer, he said there was this whole plan in place for Gary Hart to come to the WWF, manage Earthquake against Hogan, put Hogan out of commission for a while with an injury angle, and then Hart would have a stable of heels that he'd throw at the Ultimate Warrior. A real high profile role. Hart was ready to go and flew in for the tapings to kick it off. But Strongbow was the top WWF agent at the time, and he hated Hart with a passion, for some reason (it was something that happened in the 60s somewhere, I think). So he sabatoged the whole thing - changed Hart's hotel reservations, changed his rental cars - somehow Hart ended up at the arena anyway, but found out that Strongbow had being talking shit about him, and had changed all of his travel plans. So Hart walked out before his debut, and never worked for the WWF......(they had negotiations a few years later, once Strongbow was out of the picture, for Hart to manage Umaga - in the style of Hart/Abdullah the Butcher - but Hart decided not to do it - I think he was just too old by then and didn't want to travel and be on TV). I had never heard any of that before last week, and the whole thing sounded awesome (though I'm a Hart/WCCW fan)

Ah well, nobody can hold a grudge like an old-timey wrestler, I've heard more than one example of that.

[BYU 14]

Damn another legend gone, RIP Chief.

At least he made it to his later years though. God I miss wrestling of the 70's/80's!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Some stuff never changes. This time Scott Hall goes on a multi-day drinking binge & then allegedly tries to drag his girlfriend out of the car by her throat.

Breaking Update: Why Scott Hall Was Arrested | TNAWrestlingNews.com

[molson]

I just hope Hall dies before he kills someone else (either a girlfriend, or a drunk/drugged up driving thing).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pro wrestler Buff Bagwell seriously injured in wreck *| ajc.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

WWE announced today that Oscar Gutierrez aka Rey Mysterio has been suspended for 60 days for his second Wellness violation.

[Mota]

Isn't it crazy how all the little guys (Mysterio, Evan Bourne) get suspended while all the veiny muscleheads seem to be clean? How does that happen?

[Comey]

Natural selection.

[molson]

I'm no steroids expert, but the guys with muscles way too big for their small frames (Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero), I always saw as way more obvious hardcore steroid abusers than the muscular guys with the bigger frames. Guys like Mason Ryan would still be huge (though not quite as huge) even if they were clean, whereas Mysterio and Benoit just completely obliterated nature. And Mysterio of course, was one of the guys named in the Sports Illustrated article a few years back for getting mail-order 'roids.

I'm sure most of the guys use something but just like in MMA, you just have to know when your tests are and cycle on and and off. Mysterio probably got surprised by a test since he hasn't come back to TV yet.

[Toddzilla]

Mysterio to TNA in 3...2...

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Mysterio to TNA in 3...2...

What's Mysterious O.G. doing in the Impact Zone?!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm no steroids expert, but the guys with muscles way too big for their small frames (Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero), I always saw as way more obvious hardcore steroid abusers than the muscular guys with the bigger frames. Guys like Mason Ryan would still be huge (though not quite as huge) even if they were clean, whereas Mysterio and Benoit just completely obliterated nature. And Mysterio of course, was one of the guys named in the Sports Illustrated article a few years back for getting mail-order 'roids.

I'm sure most of the guys use something but just like in MMA, you just have to know when your tests are and cycle on and and off. Mysterio probably got surprised by a test since he hasn't come back to TV yet.

I don't know. It's a lot easier to look big when you are short. Less muscle needed to do so. I don't know how Ryback is clean. That seems way too unnatural.

[Mota]

It doesn't surprise me that Rey has been doing it. His body really changed over the years. And of course the roids-by-mail scandal that he got caught in also would be an indicator.

Also a guy like Mason Ryan would not be a surprise either. These guys are on the road constantly. It's hard to find hours every day to work out, and somehow some guys on the roster are just HUGE.

[molson]

Speaking of steroids, check out this photo of the Rock on the set of the movie he's filming now:

http://blogimages.thescore.com/after...k-wahlberg.jpg

I don't know 100% that it's not photoshopped, I just got it off the Wrestlingobserver site that implied its recent (and Rock is filming a movie with wahlberg right now). I mean, it's not even a month since Mania.

The steroids thing with wrestling is kind of weird, I mean, nobody cares if Rock roids up for acting. It's not like wrestling is a competitive sport. They do need to cut back on wrestlers' hearts exploding, and maybe the occasional testing keeps everyone just honest enough to for that to happen.

It does tell you too that wrestling is in a different place than say, 1988, in that Rock would hold back on his physique until his pro wrestling match is over.

[RainMaker]

That has to be a weird angle or something. I don't even think you can gain that kind of mass on steroids in a month.

[molson]

FWIW, Meltzer says Mysterio tested positive for amphetamines. Meltzer speculated that may have been some kind of weight loss supplement. He tested positive in February, the WWE still wanted him to work Mania, but then when it turned out he couldn't because he was still injured, they waited until he was close to coming back to suspend him.

[Mota]

Wow, I think that rule is just nuts. We really care about your health ... well, after Wrestlemania. Now we care. Really.

[DeToxRox]

There was an Extreme Reunion tonight and of course, it was basically a disaster save for an apparently awesome Jerry Lynn/Devon Storm match. This morning Sabu was find in his hotel room basically unresponsive so he was rushed to the ER, scrapping the Main Event between he and Shane Douglas. Then Justin Credible was told to leave because he was in bad condition backstage during the show, which was probably the shows saving grace as we was supposed to be the fine facing Lynn in the first place.

For those who care, the Main Event became 2 Cold Scorpio vs Shane Douglas and ended with a masked man run in which turned out to be Todd Gordon. The crowd, which was allegedly 2100, was chanting 'refund' throughout the night, which is an awful sign for the guys behind the show seeing as the plan is to turn the Reunion into a promotion, using tonight as a way to kick off some angles for the future.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That has to be a weird angle or something. I don't even think you can gain that kind of mass on steroids in a month.

+1.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...=feeds-newsxml

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yikes. That looks more like Batista in body makeup than Rock.

[Mota]

I think it may be an old picture from a few months ago? Apparently there was a pic of Rock circulating around before Wrestlemania where he looked like that as well.

[PilotMan]

WTF is with the Zubazz? That picture looks like it's from 1991!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

WTF is with the Zubazz? That picture looks like it's from 1991!

The movie they're filming is about bodybuilders in Florida.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

There was an Extreme Reunion tonight and of course, it was basically a disaster save for an apparently awesome Jerry Lynn/Devon Storm match. This morning Sabu was find in his hotel room basically unresponsive so he was rushed to the ER, scrapping the Main Event between he and Shane Douglas. Then Justin Credible was told to leave because he was in bad condition backstage during the show, which was probably the shows saving grace as we was supposed to be the fine facing Lynn in the first place.

For those who care, the Main Event became 2 Cold Scorpio vs Shane Douglas and ended with a masked man run in which turned out to be Todd Gordon. The crowd, which was allegedly 2100, was chanting 'refund' throughout the night, which is an awful sign for the guys behind the show seeing as the plan is to turn the Reunion into a promotion, using tonight as a way to kick off some angles for the future.

I think I might have to buy this show on IPPV, though the release of that was delayed, they're saying this week sometime.

I've heard attendance numbers as high as 2,400 for that show, which is ridiculous, that rivals some Smackdown TV tapings, and I think it's the highest indy show attendance in the U.S. in a long time. People had to know what they were getting. Maybe they showed up too sober.

Edit: Justin Credible tweeted this picture of Sabu after they found in him the hotel room (not graphic, just a passed out old guy)....Of course, as you said, Credible was asked to leave, though he did wander around in crowd towards the end of the show.

http://wrestleshare.com/images/262sabu_hotel_room.jpg

[DeToxRox]

Booking of the ME aside, Bryan/Sheamus, Punk/Jericho and Brock/Cena were all fucking amazing.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

WTF is with the Zubazz? That picture looks like it's from 1991!

LOL, I have a pair of those white Tiger stripe Zubazz, our staff wore them at a game this season for some stupide reason nobody has figured out still.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

Edit: Justin Credible tweeted this picture of Sabu after they found in him the hotel room (not graphic, just a passed out old guy)....Of course, as you said, Credible was asked to leave, though he did wander around in crowd towards the end of the show.

http://wrestleshare.com/images/262sabu_hotel_room.jpg

Damn, Sabu looks like shit and the sad thing is probably has nowhere near enough money to stop wrestling, destined to be another like Jake Roberts.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Booking of the ME aside, Bryan/Sheamus, Punk/Jericho and Brock/Cena were all fucking amazing.

That show blew Wrestlemania away, wow.

I was genuinely surprised by the ending, but it worked, it was an amazing match, and Cena actually won over the Chicago fans. It sounds like he's taking some time off, and I can see the logic of sending him off like that instead of just in a crumbled defeated heap.

It's a risky way to handle Lesnar's debut match, but I guess he'll be even angrier now. The paint-by-numbers Lesnar ascension to next year's Mania could have been fun and might have drawn, but now, I can't wait to see what he does next. I hope they can keep up with his various demands and eccentricities for as long as possible, because he is an incredible performer. I wonder if maybe they wanted to get the first loss out of the way so he doesn't hold them up for more money before some big match in the future. I mean, he still could do that, but he has a little less leverage than he would if he was say, undefeated going into a Mania match with the Rock next year.

I even liked Ryback's squash match. The two skinny jobbers chanting "two is greater than one!" 5 or 6 times before Ryback's music hit was one of the funniest jobber moments in years.

[RainMaker]

Sent that photo to a friend of mine who is big into lifting and he says it's definitely bloat from a cycle.

I also thought it was a great PPV. Thoroughly enjoyed DB/Sheamus as that is the match we should have gotten at Mania. Not sure if they should have had Cena go over, especially if he is leaving. You've sort of killed the hype around Lesnar quickly and didn't gain much.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cena files for divorce against HS sweetheart wife (of three years). She's hired Linda Hogan's lawyer but faces an uphill battle against a tough pre-nup.
insider warns that this isn't going to be pretty, saying "This is going to dwarf the Hogan divorce in nastiness."
WWE superstar John Cena files for divorce; wife hires Miami attorney | Scene in the Tropics