2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[JPhillips]

The shocking thing with the Sixers is how little they have to show for all the process. Right now they have no legit NBA bodies at three positions. They have a potential star center with an injury that may keep him from developing, a good, but one-dimensional big man, a potentially good, but one-dimensional center, and a foreign PF that may not play for two more seasons. The draft picks aren't going to save them, either. The LA and OKC picks will be late lottery/early playoff and the MIA pick will be early playoff if they stay healthy. The Sixers pick will be top five, as they'll still suck this year. But the other first rounders and the eleven extra second round picks from 2016 to 2021 aren't likely to bring in great players. But of course they'll have cap room, but starting next summer so will everyone else.

If they keep tanking, sure eventually they'll get a Durant type player, but how many years does the process get before results are called for?

[Arles]

The problem with Philly is they can't even develop their talented players with this roster. Okafor and Noel are playing with D-league guards and forwards. Had they drafted Harden or Kobe types, they could at least create their own shots, but Noel is dependent on guards to get him the ball. Okafor needs shooters to play off the double team. Instead, both these guys will get a big chunk of their points off offensive rebounds and individual efforts.

Even better is when Noel is a RFA after the 16/17 season and the cap will be immense. The team needs capable guards or even their prized front court assets will peace out the second they can. Given the numerous quality guards available via trade/draft/FA, it's criminal that Philly hasn't added a couple. Signing MLE level guards to 3-4 year deals for $7-8 mil over the past offseason (and even this one) isn't going to setback any massive FA plans in 2-3 years and might help develop the assets they have.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

I'm positive the Sixers spend more than any other team on infrastructure like an analytics department, training facilities, and scouting, so it's definitely not some scheme to line the owners' pockets.

You mean the facility that hasn't broke ground? With the cost being covered the NJ economist development authority that gave the 76ers tax credits to cover the entire cost in the form of a 10 year grant?

Brings up another point. How many nba teams don't have their own training facility in the nba? Here the last I can think of...

1... wanna take a wild guess who that team is? They've held practice at the PCOM since 2000. That's right, the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine...

I doubt they spend more than Morey in Houston with analytics since heinke trained under him.

[RainMaker]

Analytics is not that big of an expense. Is there any team spending over $10 million a year in that department?

[nol]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Analytics is not that big of an expense. Is there any team spending over $10 million a year in that department?

I'd be pretty confident in saying yes. I have generally heard that if a team isn't spending over $3 million a year on analytics, they're pretty much not even trying.

The 76ers have hired away the Blazers' main analytics guy and the Rockets' main salary cap guy within the last year and have significantly more analytics/basketball operations positions listed in the staff directory than other teams do.

[Groundhog]

Can't seem to embed it here, but here's a Vine showing Okafor's thoughts on the Sixers rebuilding strategy:

Watch Michael Roche's Vine "No respect for the uniform #NBA #OKAFOR #sixers #Philadelphia76ers"

[murrayyyyy]

Because 76ers news just keeps printing...

Report: Sixers Ordered To Pay MM To Pelicans | Hoops Rumors

The NBA ordered the Sixers to pay $3MM to the Pelicans last season for not fully disclosing the extent of Jrue Holiday‘s injury before his 2013 trade.

Yeah, this is one clean organization...

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Because 76ers news just keeps printing...

Report: Sixers Ordered To Pay MM To Pelicans | Hoops Rumors

The NBA ordered the Sixers to pay $3MM to the Pelicans last season for not fully disclosing the extent of Jrue Holiday‘s injury before his 2013 trade.

Yeah, this is one clean organization...

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

If the Sixers were too lazy to even read Andrew Bynum's wikipedia page, that's on them. Bynum never started more than 65 games in a season as a Laker because of injuries.

The article does mention that they are trying to get the league to look into it

[nol]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Does this mean the Sixers can sue the Lakers for Bynum?

Does it mean that trades in the NBA no longer depend on all players passing physicals for their new team?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by nol

Does it mean that trades in the NBA no longer depend on all players passing physicals for their new team?

Holiday passed his physical

[nol]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Holiday passed his physical

Holiday played in 78 games the season before, passed a physical exam, and had a stress fracture. I'm having a hard time seeing how more than two of those things can be true.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Holiday played in 78 games the season before, passed a physical exam, and had a stress fracture. I'm having a hard time seeing how more than two of those things can be true.

Played 9 mins in the final game of the season (when the fracture might have happened). No one noticed because it's Philly and they weren't in the playoffs. Traded 2-3 months later on draft night.

I mean a stress fracture is just a crack in the bone, isn't it. Doesn't say he has a broken leg so after 3 months rest it could be possible to pass a physical.

If there is nothing to it, maybe the NBA if just giving out a 3 million dollar fine but I'm thinking it has to do more with not disclosing an injury. Then trading an undisclosed injured player with a pick that also got you Elfrid Payton which you turned into Saric and Orlando's 2017 first round pick. They can't go back and give New Orleans the pick so I think they gave them an estimated value of the pick.

[Arles]

Looks like the Suns have agreed to a 5-year, $70 mil extension with Brandon Knight. Back in February, the fear was Knight would want a max deal (5-90) and the pick traded would end up as number 6-8 in this year's strong draft. Now that Knight has agreed to a deal $20 mil below the max and the Lakers pick is pushed to next season (where it could be in the 10-13 range if LA signs a few UFAs) - this deal is looking better from a Suns perspective.

I think they still need to move Bledsoe at some point in the next year or two, but they are on the right path. They are waiting to extend Knight officially so they can spend their $12 mil of cap space first. I doubt they are really in for Aldridge (even though Stein says they are a player), but if they can add a few FA pieces to go with Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Len, the Morris twins, Archie Goodwin and TJ Warren - this team is somewhat interesting. Everyone is under 26 and they have a bunch of draft assets coming up as well.

[whomario]

yeah, thats a solid deal. Still not convinced that Knight is a good PG, but hes a good player (if that makes sense) for that money. At the end of the day, scoring is still sth you need.

Bogdanovic had a so-so season overseas, adjusting to a better team (Final 4 team Fenerbace) and struggling at times with a more restrictive system. Still another positive for the Suns, could be a rotation player when he comes over next year.

Zach Lowe on the Cap rise and the effect it ought to have on Phoenix, Utah or Milwaukee this year:

There might be only around 10 teams who end up with max-level cap room this summer.⁵ Damn near everyone will have that sort of space a year from now, and some teams will have enough for two max contracts — plus a third mid-sized deal. Cap room today is worth more than cap room tomorrow, especially for non-destination teams who can’t compete with the glamour boys on the open market


A bunch of those teams — Utah, Orlando, Milwaukee, Detroit, Phoenix, and others — have cap room this summer, and they should be hell-bent on using it. I don’t really even care who they sign, provided it’s not an obviously below-average player on the downswing. Pick a young or mid-career free agent and fucking splurge. Almost any deal with a solid player at $15 million or below this summer will look fine once the cap cracks $100 million.

Have a jones for Khris Middleton? MAX HIM OUT. Hesitant to snap up Monroe in free agency because you already have one decent low-post guy? SIGN HIM ANYWAY. Does $12 million for DeMarre Carroll or Danny Green seem insane? They’re in their primes, and they do very important NBA things well. GO GET THEM. Barring disaster, all these guys will be on tradable contracts if the fit isn’t ideal on your team.

I’ve heard all the counterarguments from cautious sorts around the league: “Spending for the sake of spending gets you in trouble.” Or: “We want to stay flexible for the summer of 2016, too!” I don’t buy any of them. Most of these teams will have room a year from now even if they spend this summer; if they can get a good player now, while the competition is thinner, they should — even if they have to jump the market by a million or two.

Don’t be shy, Magic and Bucks. Use the $15 million in cap room you have while Middleton and Tobias Harris, respectively, hang in free agency, and then spend heavy to bring those young dudes back.
Another bonus of spending at this level: Players below the All-Star level should be more keen on inking long-term deals, since it’s no guarantee their salaries will escalate along with the cap. Middleton might be a max player this summer, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be a max player in two years. Green might be a $12 million player under any cap level, and if he knows that, you might be able to get him for four years.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...ncy-questions/

[stevew]

Kings apparently trying to back a brinks truck up to Coach Cal. Not exactly the worst idea IMO.

[Logan]

Maybe second worst after backing that truck up for Phil to run a team.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Maybe second worst after backing that truck up for Phil to run a team.

Not when this week's imperative is placating Demarcus Cousins.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Kings apparently trying to back a brinks truck up to Coach Cal. Not exactly the worst idea IMO.

If Cal is smart (which he is), he shouldn't go anywhere near that ownership group. What a train wreck.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

yeah, thats a solid deal. Still not convinced that Knight is a good PG, but hes a good player (if that makes sense) for that money. At the end of the day, scoring is still sth you need.

Yeah this is my feeling on Knight. I think he's valuable because he can shoot and play both backcourt positions, but I'd definitely be looking to move Bledsoe because I think having two sorta/kind/maybe PGs in the backcourt isn't going to be enough for the Suns to win in the West.

[Groundhog]

Oh god, I hope Kings keep Cousins, Karl, and then sign Rondo. Woah boy.

[Groundhog]

Imagine the floor spacing with Rondo-McLemore-Gay-Cousins-Cauley-Stein. Bring out the old Box-and-1, with the worst defender camped in from of McLemore just in case he tries to shoot a 3.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

If Cal is smart (which he is), he shouldn't go anywhere near that ownership group. What a train wreck.

At worst he's maybe the Indian-American version of Daniel Snyder. At least he isn't afraid to spend like some teams are.

[Groundhog]

Looking at it, this is a pretty strong FA class. It's just that 95% of the top 15 are probably going to re-sign. Aldridge is the main question mark for me, but I expect the other guys in the top 10 are wearing the same jerseys next season.

Wade is an interesting case though... I wonder if Miami feel obliged to pay him. He's after some pretty impressive $$$ for a guy who is being held together by masking tape.

[whomario]

Aaaaaand we are off !

From what i could tell, among the very first (maybe even the first) to agree to a contract was ... Al-Farouq Aminu (30mio/4years to the Blazers)

Things of note so far, all with the caveat that nothing can be actually "official" yet (signing not allowed till July 9th):

- The Spurs trade Tiago Splitter to the Hawks. This may very well mean that Aldridge indicated that he will sign with them. It might also simply mean that the Spurs are doing it "just in case" and are willing to chance it.

- For the Hawks this might mean that they will let either Millsap or Carroll go.

- The Spurs also agree with Danny Green on 45/4, which is a fine enough compromise under the soon-to-go-up Cap.

- Anthony Davis will sign a Max Extension with the Hornets. Depending on the exact numbers on next years Cap, but early projection makes it out to be in the neighbourhood of 145/5 aka the Biggest contract in league history (by a lot). That would be the Derrick Rose rule in effect (player eligible to sign for 30% of the cap), for that he would need either another All Star Start, or make an All NBA team next season.

- Lillard also very likely signing a Max Extension (120/5 for him roundabout. However, he could be eligible for the Davis-version as well. Seems fuzzy if the Blazers would go that high)

- Goran Dragic re-signs with the Heat for 90/5 (which is about 20 mio below the max for him)



Rumour Mill:

- Blazers interested in Greg Monroe

- Pacers trying to sign Monta Ellis

[Chief Rum]

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.

[Arles]

Dragic is going to re-sign for 5-90 with the Heat ($15 mil below the $105 mil max they could have). Not a terrible deal, but paying a small guard who's main strength is getting to the rim 18+ mil for his 32-34 year old seasons seems a little risky. If Miami ends up giving Wade the extension he wants, that will be a lot of money in aging guards. All that said, as much as I did not want the Suns to give Dragic $18+ mil over 5 years - I don't think it was a terrible move for the Heat. Bosh, Wade and Dragic are all between 29 and 33 - so it makes sense to play this out.

I just think that 2018 first the Suns have could be pretty valuable as Bosh (33), Wade (35) and Dragic (32) will be making up around $60 mil on the cap the prior season.

[Arles]

Looks like Carrol has just agreed to a 4-year $60 mil deal with Toronto. It's hard to tell what's a good or bad deal with all the cap flux over the next two seasons, but this seems fairly reasonable as he will be only 33 when it ends.

[lungs]

Khris Middleton and the Bucks agreed to a 5 year $70 million deal.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.

Many factors to consider here.

Leonard has a "cap hold" of only about 7.2 mio, Danny Green about 7.5. The difference between that and the starting salary of the new contracts do not come into play until they place their signature under it. Which they won´t until everybody else is signed. (and both can be signed without the nescessary cap space, as the spurs have their bird rights). Just another example of the Spurs unique ability to play "the long con" with the culture they have. Had Leonard and Green signed extensions rather than trusting the Spurs to keep their end of the bargain after the season, this would all be moot.
On the flip side, Duncan has a cap hold of 15.5. As soon as he signs for, say, 7 mio that difference goes away. And Manu has a hold of 10 mio. If he retires or agrees to resign for the "room exception" of about 3 mio, the Spurs can renounce his right and clear that cap hold off the books. Likely more gymnastics nescessary, but possible.

The detailed version since i wanted to figure out myself: The Spurs can do more with their cap space than you think - Pounding The Rock

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by lungs

Khris Middleton and the Bucks agreed to a 5 year $70 million deal.

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heard this morning that the Spurs also resigned Kawhi Leonard (I think toa max deal).

Not sure how they can afford Leonard and Green and their current roster of stars and also add Aldridge at max level, but then, I'm no cap expert.

Because they just have an agreement in place for Leonard and haven't signed him yet. They're able to go over the cap to re-sign their own players so they'd sign Aldridge and then Leonard. They got Green for quite a steal; some team with room should have offered him around $15 million/year to make things harder for the Spurs.


The new cap basically multiplies everything by a little over 1.5, so Carroll is signed for the equivalent of under $10M/year and someone like Aminu is essentially earning the mid-level exemption.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Many factors to consider here.

Leonard has a "cap hold" of only about 7.2 mio, Danny Green about 7.5. The difference between that and the starting salary of the new contracts do not come into play until they place their signature under it. Which they won´t until everybody else is signed. (and both can be signed without the nescessary cap space, as the spurs have their bird rights). Just another example of the Spurs unique ability to play "the long con" with the culture they have. Had Leonard and Green signed extensions rather than trusting the Spurs to keep their end of the bargain after the season, this would all be moot.
On the flip side, Duncan has a cap hold of 15.5. As soon as he signs for, say, 7 mio that difference goes away. And Manu has a hold of 10 mio. If he retires or agrees to resign for the "room exception" of about 3 mio, the Spurs can renounce his right and clear that cap hold off the books. Likely more gymnastics nescessary, but possible.

The detailed version since i wanted to figure out myself: The Spurs can do more with their cap space than you think - Pounding The Rock

Are Duncan and Ginobli free agents?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Are Duncan and Ginobli free agents?

yes. Everybody on the spurs is but Parker, Diaw, Mills, Anderson.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

Hard for me to say, opinion seems to be about 65% in favor and 35% against amongst the rumblings in some Bucks forums I read. He definitely stepped up after Brandon Knight left. I liked him a lot and don't see it as too big of a deal with the cap going up but my basketball knowledge is pretty elementary.

[nol]

Originally Posted by lungs

Hard for me to say, opinion seems to be about 65% in favor and 35% against amongst the rumblings in some Bucks forums I read. He definitely stepped up after Brandon Knight left. I liked him a lot and don't see it as too big of a deal with the cap going up but my basketball knowledge is pretty elementary.

He's a legitimate 3 and D player (who's only 23) and contrary to popular opinion, those aren't just guys you can find in the late first round or in Europe/the D-League. It's sticker shock now, but in a few years players like Giannis and Jabari will be signing extensions for $20+ million a year, which is pretty much in line with what a player like Middleton should be making relative to them.

[Chief Rum]

Clippers talking to Wesley Johnson, Jeremy Lin, Willie Green, Corey Brewer and CJ Watson.

Will someone please lock GM Doc Rivers in the utility closet for the next two weeks?

[Subby]

To quote Simmons: "GM Doc is KILLING the Clippers!"

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, I really like Middleton. He, Tobias Harris, and Jae Crowder (at a lower salary level) were the 3 RFA's I hoped the Celtics targeted - all can play multiple positions in D, shoot 3's, and are very young.

Especially when Al-Farouq Aminu is getting 4/$30 and DeMarre Carroll 4/$60.

[Logan]

Love back to Cleveland.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/kev...shed-business/

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Love back to Cleveland.

Unfinished Business | The Players' Tribune

Pretty good deal for the Cavs.

[Subby]

SENIOR editor, Kevin Love!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Love back to Cleveland.

Unfinished Business | The Players' Tribune

Good. Did not want him as the Celtics centerpiece. A bit surprised he signed for 5 years instead of 1/2 plus a player option.

Now I hope the Celtics target Tobias Harris.

[BishopMVP]

New worst contract of the day - Alexis Ajinca 4 years, $20 million.

[Subby]

Tyson Chandler to the Suns which might mean DeAndre to the Mavs?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Interesting! I know he had a nice year but was he just a product of limited options or is he really worth this? Seems more like a 6th man off of a playoff team rather than a 3rd option on a playoff team.

He's a really good 3 and D guy and only 23 years old. Actually thought he'd get a max. Remember the cap is going up a ton. These $14m per year deals are going to be like $9m per year deals in a few years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Subby

Tyson Chandler to the Suns which might mean DeAndre to the Mavs?

Guess Tyson is going to help the Suns pitch Aldridge. Would be a fascinating team if they could nab him too.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

New worst contract of the day - Alexis Ajinca 4 years, $20 million.

New leader in the clubhouse!

Restricted free agent Kyle Singler has agreed to a five-year, nearly $25M extension with Oklahoma City, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 1, 2015

[stevew]

Who is signing with the Lakers?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Subby

New leader in the clubhouse!

Restricted free agent Kyle Singler has agreed to a five-year, nearly $25M extension with Oklahoma City, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 1, 2015

You're just saying that cuz he's white!