Juggling Dynasty

[MJ4H]

Well it's worth a try.

My latest obsession is juggling, as some of you may remember from my innuendo filled thread-jacked question on the general discussion board.

Several years ago a friend of mine told me he could teach me to juggle in 20 minutes. I said ok do it. And he did. In 20 minutes I could juggle 3 balls in what is called the 3 ball cascade. I forgot about juggling for a long time, but would occassionally see three round shaped objects and pick them up and juggle them just for kicks. Well, I have recently gone bonkers crazy and decided to learn as much juggling as I possibly can. These days, I practice nearly every day for several hours.

In this column I will detail my progress in juggling. I will tell how much I have progressed in the "standard patterns" or "siteswaps" for those in the know, and I will also tell about the different tricks I am learning or practicing. I might also include some links to some animations of the juggling tricks that are sprinkled around the web if anyone is interested in what a trick looks like.

[MJ4H]

An update on my current abilities in the standard patterns:

3 balls: I can do the standard 3 ball cascade indefinitely. Indefinitely means I can juggle without dropping until I am bored or tired or both.

4 balls: I have only recently made the breakthrough into officially juggling 4 balls. My progress with the standard four ball asynchronous fountain patter is slow: I average about 10-20 catches before I drop. My longest run is just over 30 or so catches.
--The four ball fountain is 2 balls in each hand. My problem is that the fountains in each of the hands tends to move together and eventually the balls collide. I am getting better at this, but the combination of that problem and just mistakes in catching lead to an early end to most of my attempts.

3 clubs: I am pretty good with 3 clubs at this point. I can make 100 catches pretty consistently (I don't really count past 20 normally - this is really just a guess).

[MJ4H]

An update on some of the tricks I have mastered:

3 ball tricks:
-Over the top
-Juggler's Tennis
-Half Shower
-Reverse Cascade
-Under the Arm
-Reverse Juggler's Tennis

3 clubs:
-none yet, but working on some double spins.

I'll describe my favorite of the 3 ball tricks I've mastered.

Over the Top is simply an opposite motion toss with one ball in the middle of a cascade. The standard cascade consists of alternating inward scooping motions for the throws. In this trick, one throw is done with an outward tossing motion "over the top of the pattern." It is a very basic trick and usually the first one learned after the standard cascade.

Juggler's Tennis is simply a repeating "Over the Top" trick with the same ball. The appearance of the trick is that one of the balls is going back and forth over the juggling pattern while the other two are being juggled. It looks cool.

Under the arm is a cross arm toss in the middle of the cascade. The throwing arm moves underneath the other arm to toss virtually straight up.

Reverse Juggler's Tennis is to Under the arm what Juggler's Tennis is to Over the Top. The appearance is one of the balls goes under the juggling pattern and then straight up on each side. Also very cool looking.

More importantly, these tricks are the foundations to the tricks I am working on now. As I begin to practice intently on new tricks I will describe them in detail and consider showing some animations (depending on reader interest).

[MJ4H]

The under the arm trick is an important one for a couple of more advanced tricks. I will be learning Chops and Windmill next. Both of these build on the under the arm trick.

So far I have struggled understanding the concepts behind Chops, but I believe I have the windmill concept down. Today in my practice session, I worked on the under the arm trick to start and worked my way on to some reverse juggler's tennis. Once I felt moderately comfortable, I begin experimenting with the windmill concepts and seemed to get the hang of it fairly quickly. So far the trick is pretty wild looking and I can get several throws and catches. The visual effect of the trick is that your arms are crossing and uncrossing while the balls are following each other through the air. Well I have the arm pattern reasonably well, but the balls are flying in fairly random directions. It will take some practice before the balls follow each other better. Ball control is one of the harder parts of juggling for me.

[MJ4H]

Any juggling fans reading along?

[Poli]

I don't know how to juggle at all. It would be cool to learn.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'll teach you next time you're in the Burg. I also can teach in 20 minutes.

'Course, juggling more than 3 items I can't do or teach, so don't ask.

[MJ4H]

I agree. I firmly believe that anyone that can throw one ball from one hand to the other can juggle three balls.

[MJ4H]

I practiced on and off today. I concentrated on the Windmill trick today and it is getting much better. Here is what the trick looks like:


My problems are that the under the arm toss sometimes goes straight up rather than across to the opposite side (the juggler in the gif above is also doing this somewhat), and that I am throwing the balls too high which slows the trick down and reduces the smoothness of the motion. It is looking much better and is actually impressive to look at today (as opposed to yesterday, when I had the motions down and was making the throws and catches, but looked like a monkey on acid trying to keep it going -- verdict: not impressive).

I will probably continue to practice this trick for a while and then move on to Chops which I don't quite understand yet. Also I am looking at some of my own juggling clubs on ebay. Seems I can get some pretty decent ones for about $20 total (set of three). Previously, the best deal I had seen was about $12 for each club.

One other note, I did some research and found out that there is a juggling club that meets Wednesday evenings from 6pm - 8pm in the next town. That might be interesting to try next week.

[MJ4H]

A fairly exciting development this evening. Just goofing around today, I've twice pulled off the three ball "flash" which is getting all three balls into the air at the same time and clapping while they are up, then catching them and resuming juggling. This is not terribly easy and is the foundation for juggling 5 balls. Once I can do the three ball flash consistently, I have heard that apparently juggling 5 balls is easier than juggling 4 (um, ok, sure I believe that). We will see.

[MJ4H]

Well, last couple of days have been very slow going on working on chops. At least I've got the windmill looking pretty good. There are a couple of things I can mention though.

1. I am pretty consistently getting the 3 ball flash. It is surprisingly fun, but I don't think it is that impressive to watch. Once again, the 3 ball flash is done from a standard 3 ball cascade. All three balls are thrown very high and are airborne at the same time, and while they are airborne, I clap, then catch the balls and resume juggling as they come down (the clap is basically to emphasize that all three balls are in the air at the same time). This is good practice for juggling the five ball cascade.

2. I have modified my juggling balls. I really like that you can make your own juggling balls rather than having to find a juggling store (not easily done) or settle for juggling props that aren't suitable.

The balls I was using were constructed out of balloons and lentils (little beans). These are soft and weighted so that they don't roll away. The advantages are that they are easy to make, don't bounce or roll away when dropped, and you can make a variety of sizes. The disadvantages are that they aren't very durable and are not really round most of the time.

The other method of constructing juggling balls involves cutting open a tennis ball, filling it with something (lentils again work fine) and resealing it. The advantage here is that they are more durable. You fill them up (actually about 75% of the way) so that they don't bounce and roll away when dropped. A couple of things that made me not want to try this way were that I had guessed that the filled tennis balls would be wobbly since they are 75% filled with stuff, and that they wouldn't look as good since they would all be fuzzy green (I like multi-colored juggling balls - each ball a different color, or at least a couple of different colors in a set).

My new juggling balls actually combined the two ways. I cut open the tennis ball, filled it about 75% of the way with lentils, then realized I didn't have superglue like I thought. Not only that I didn't have anything to reseal it with. So I went and got some electrical tape just to test out the ball to see if it was wobbly (the real reason I was doing this the first time). To my surprise it wasn't wobbly at all and the ball dropped dead on the ground (very litte bounce, very little roll - a vast improvement over normal tennis balls which go CRAZY when dropped). So while I was trying to figure out whether I wanted to go get some superglue or not, I had the idea that I could wrap some balloons around the tennis balls to A. keep the electrical tape down over the "wound", and B. make the balls other colors! So now I have 6 juggling balls, all dead dropping, perfectly round, in different colors, and very durable! I'm going to recommend other people use this method to create their juggling balls. The only thing I would change is to go ahead and superglue the wound closed in addition to covering it with tape.

Now if I could find an equally convenient way of making clubs.

[MJ4H]

Still working on chops from time to time. I practiced the 3 ball shower (and even tried a four ball shower briefly - yikes). I tried what in siteswap notation would be a 552 which is also good practice for the 5 ball cascade that I'm working up to. I never successfully got the 552, but I did make progress towards it. It is pretty tough. My four ball fountain still hovers at around 10-20 catches. Can't seem to break through on that one. I'm anticipating a big lead on that one soon. I only practice it for about 10 minutes at a time because it is very frustrating.

[MJ4H]

I found a website with good instructions for making juggling club using newspapers and tape. I made 3 of them today and this makes me very happy. Club juggling is infinitely more *fun* than ball juggling to me. Gonna be working on some club tricks now as well, especially the double spin. The goal with that is to make every single toss a double spin.

Four ball fountain STILL at 10-20 catches though I am starting to feel more comfortable during those 10-20 catches and getting closer to 20 more often. I am working on fundamental 2 in a hand juggling to help this get better. The goal with 4 ball juggling is to be able to juggle it indefinitely, which to me means 100 catches anytime I want. I anticipate being able to do this within a month or less.

[Poli]

egad, that sounds cool.

[VPI97]

Cool dynasty.

[MJ4H]

4 ball fountain progressing, but still slowly.



The throws are becoming MUCH more consistent, which helps me to get up to 20 catches nearly every time. I am breaking 30 catches at about a 30-40% rate. Meanwhile, my juggling buddy (the art teacher at the school where I teach) who has been juggling for much longer than I, has started actual progress towards juggling a five ball cascade. I am not close to that yet. He has always been a step ahead of me in the numbers game (how many objects you can juggle how many times). However, I think I pick up tricks a little better than he does, and I find I have to explain a lot of juggling patterns to him (like siteswap notation).

Last night and today are parent teacher conferences, and the band director doesn't normally get an overload of parents (nor does the art teacher) so we have had some practice time last night and today (though I spent a good deal of that time playing with tsDesk and getting my desktop looking the way I want it).

It is encouraging to watch him juggle 5 (though he has only officially flashed* it, not juggled it). It makes me think I will actually be able to do it one day.


*A terminology clarification:
FLASH - you have "flashed" x number of juggling objects when you have made x number of catches. you have JUGGLED x number of objects when you have made 2x number of catches.

[MJ4H]

And thanks for the comments VPI97 and ardententhusiast! I hope you keep reading. Learning to juggle is hard work, and knowing that some people are following my progress is encouraging.

[MJ4H]

Quick update. My son has been in the hospital for pneumonia and some other viral infection they aren't sure about. It caused him to go seizure crazy last Thursday so we've been in the hospital since then (a week now, nearly). The good news is he hasn't had a seizure since Saturday (his baseline over the last several months has been 10-20 a day). The bad news is he still runs a fever all day, is not eating well, and isn't breathing at 100%.

So what does this have to do with juggling? Well obviously I haven't done much of it this past week, so I just wanted to keep this thread alive and any interested readers (as if) a note as to why it hasn't been updated. I intend to keep this thing going for as long as I'm serious about learning to juggle.

[JAG]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. My thoughts are with you MJ4H, sending some positive thoughts for your son to get well.

[Poli]

Sorry man. Hope all goes well.

[MJ4H]

Well, my son is finally out of the hospital (got home after midnight last night). During one of our trips to Little Rock with him, I found a little magic shop that sells juggling equipment (and not much of it). This kind of stuff is hard to come by except by ordering online it seems. Well I bought some new juggling clubs (very durable material, but don't look that great), juggling rings, and cube bean bags (absolutely NO roll when they are dropped - even round bean bags roll a little hehe). So I'm stocked up on equipment for awhile. I can successfully juggle the rings (not too difficult at all) right out of the box. The clubs are very nice and I can already do some over the top tosses with them (that I was really struggling with using my homemade clubs). I only bought 3 bean bags because I wanted to try them. I like them enough that I ordered 3 more the other day and they should be here some time this week. I think these will really help my 4 object juggling.

I found some good beginner instructions on passing. I am going to try to get the art teacher at the school I teach at to work on some simple passing skills with me.

I have heard that rings are very good for "numbers juggling," which is the pursuit of juggling more and more objects. This is consistent with videos I have seen. Highly skilled jugglers seem to juggle 7 rings and up without much difficulty but it seems more difficult to juggle, say, 7 balls or clubs. This seems counter-intuitive to me since rings are at first harder to control. I think with proper spin, they stabalize their flight path a lot and it is much easier to get them thrown in a consistent path and height (totally essential to higher numbers juggling). For now I only have three rings, but one day, Im sure Ill be adding some to it.

[MJ4H]

I have added a new trick to my 3 ball juggling repertoire. I can know do Overhead juggling pretty well. This trick is a standard cascade done entirely above the shoulders. If you picture juggling while lying flat on your back on the floor, then standing up and juggling the same way while leaning back, you get the idea. I'm working on a little routine with 3 balls that incorporates all the tricks I have learned so far, and I can now transition to a short overhead cascade and out of it, so I consider this trick learned. It's really not as hard as it seems. It sounds easy, looks hard, and isn't that tough to get (though my first few attempts at it were disasters).

[MJ4H]

MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH

Today just messing around I had the idea to try the Windmill trick with 3 tosses and then switch to a reverse windmill (going the opposite direction) with 3 tosses and keep repeating the two. I had a vague idea that his might result in the MILLS MESS trick, but I wasn't sure. Surprisingly, it did, and I can now perform what I consider the blackbelt of 3 ball juggling, the Mills Mess.



NOTE: That is not me in the picture, but it IS the Mills Mess trick.

[Poli]

Rock on.

[Noop]

This is dope.

[corbes]

Is that Pete in the picture?

[cthomer5000]

You're very nerdy looking.

[MJ4H]

This is my favorite message board. Pete's, too.

[MJ4H]

By the way, I went back and put in an animated gif of the windmill trick that is the foundation for the Mills mess in one of my earlier posts. Check it out. I will try to include more of this stuff because I know it will help people better understand what I am doing.

EDIT - also added a gif of the 4 ball fountain which is still a practice staple for me. I've broken 50 catches in a row with it several times now. It is taking much longer to get this one to the "indefinite" stage than it took for 3 balls. I WILL get there though.

[MJ4H]

I have been practicing Mill's Mess trying to smooth it out. My wife says I just barely cross my arms and I should try to cross them further, so I have been working on that (tough to do).

Now and then I have been working on a 2 in one hand flash (getting both objects in the air at the same time and clapping) which is preparation for three in one hand. Three in one hand is very tough. I haven't gotten more than four catches at that yet and I'm chasing objects around the room on each throw. Ugly, ugly.

With clubs, I am working on over the top tosses and under the arm tosses. Clubs take up a lot of space in flight so you have to be pretty precise with them. It takes a lot more effort to be precise, too, since clubs are quite a bit heavier than balls. I can do these two "tricks" fairly well, but frequently get collisions and drops. It's just a matter of practice with those.

I've also been practicing three ring tricks. Rings are very fun, but impossible to practice without a gymnasium handy. Outside, any wind at all renders practicing useless, and inside, there is almost never a ceiling high enough.

[MJ4H]

Getting to practice about an hour a day these days. My Mill's Mess is starting to smooth out. My Windmill trick has been a beneficieary of this. It is now very impressive, I would say. Very smooth, low, and fast, with the balls following each other nearly perfectly.

My four ball fountain is still slowly progressing. My average run is around 40 catches now, while my best run is 76 catches.

A note here: my hobby has officially reached "obsession" status. For me, this is signalled by having a dream about the activity nearly every night. Last night I dreamed about juggling 55550 (which is a 5 ball cascade pattern but with only 4 balls and an empty "beat"). The good thing about dreaming this pattern is that it is actually good brain-training for actually doing it. I was able to experience successfully doing the trick in my dream and the rhythm of the trick was accurate. Believe it or not, this is very helpful.

I have also read about people using lucid dreams to help them juggle or even perform impossible juggling feats in their dreams. One guy said his goal was to have a lucid dream where he was juggling balls and they changed to clubs.

Any of you guys that are reading this ever heard of dreams, especially lucid dreams, helping someone practice a skill? I'd never considered it before now.

[MJ4H]

I have neglected to mention in the previous two posts my progress with a very visually cool trick called The Box. I can do this trick fairly well, but I get a little wild after about 10-12 catches. I have done more than 20 catches on it, though, so I can do it. This animation is unfortunately all I could find. If I find a real life animated gif, I will substitute it for this crude one later. Obviously it goes much faster when you involve actual physics and the whole gravity thing.

[MJ4H]

A shocking development today. While casually looking at a mills mess animation, I noticed that the guy I was watching started each cycle with a different type of toss than I thought he should be. This led me to examine more closely other animations and instructions I had seen.

Sadly, I eventually discovered that I am not quite doing the mills mess the way it should be. I have started trying to correct this, but this almost insignificant change actually makes it much harder. I can only do a few catches of the correct way, so far, but I will get it.

[Pyser]

just checked this thread out. very interesting. lead me to try juggling with three balls, which i can kinda sorta do, but end up walking forward, because for some reason i keep throwing the balls a foot ahead of me. not so easy!

good luck, glad your son is home.

[MJ4H]

Some tips for stopping the walking juggler:

1. juggle in front of a wall.
2. juggle in front of a bed or table (this is even better since you still can't walk forward and you wont have to bend over as far to pick up your drops most times)
3. try to make yourself walk backwards when you juggle.
4. just plant your feet and don't chase the balls.

Back on my mills mess screw-up, I can do the actual one now, but as I said it is much harder. It is like starting over on it to get it smoothed out. That's ok because it will be better when it is perfected.

[MJ4H]

Forgot to tell you Pyser, don't feel bad about having to walk forward to juggle. Almost everybody does that at first. Remember that juggling is the art of making great throws, not great catches. Concentrate on that end.

Thanks for reading, by the way.

[MJ4H]

Most of you know I'm a band director. Well we had our spring concert, our final committment of the school year on May 10th, so during my band classes, we don't have much to do until the end of the school year (which happened to be yesterday). So my entire low brass section now can juggle. One trombone player has even officially juggled four balls.

I'm like a proud papa. At one point this week we got the whole section (it's a small school, remember, so only five people) in a circle and we started doing passing tricks. We never got more than about 3 passes with 5 people but it was really a lot of fun. With just two of us, say the first chair trombone player and I, we can pass pretty much indefinitely without messing up.

Passing is supposed to be really fun from what I've read. The ultimate of course is club passing, which most people have probably seen performed. I am still limited to ball passing right now which is much easier, but plan to move on to clubs as soon as I can.

One of my good friends from high school and college is back in the area after moving to Indiana for awhile. He is the one that actually taught me how to juggle in 20 minutes or so. We got together not long ago and learned this passing stuff at my house one night. It really is a blast. More to come.

[MJ4H]

There is a juggling convention in town the weekend of June 4th. I just received the itenerary for it.

June 4th Friday
5pm-9pm open juggling
9pm Fire Show

June 5th Saturday
9am-9pm open juggling
contests w/ prizes from dube and odd sports
workshops including: fuels and fire safety, beginner
to intermediate Diablo, performance, multiplexing, club
passing spontaneous demonstrations of slacklineing, unicycling,
and object balancing
children's zone w/ tub o' childsafe props
7pm Public Show

June 6th Sunday
10am-2pm open juggling
1pm amateur show

I will definitely be attending this sucker. I will try to acquire a digital camera for the event and post some pictures.

[bonehog]

After your quick tutoring session saturday night, I got up to 17 catches last night after only about 5 minutes! Thanks for the help MattJones

[MJ4H]

Hey a student! bonehog is a friend of mine that I taught to juggle in probably less than 10 minutes.

My son had surgery to put in a G-tube on Tuesday, so while he was recovering, I had several hours to practice juggling in the little play area outside his hospital room at Arkansas Children's Hospital. I FINALLY broke 100 catches with my four ball fountain! I consider a pattern mastered when I get do 100 catches at it pretty much at will, say 3 out of 4 attempts. Not *quite* to that point yet, but I have since broken 100 a couple of other times. It is amazing how small my steps of progression have been, yet they have been very steady. For instance, I have broken 100 probably 3 times, but my record is still 108 catches.

Haven't really learned any new 3 ball tricks. Well there is the Yo-yo (aka the string) and the Oy-oy (aka the levitation). However, these are actually very simple tricks that rely on a bit of illusion to look complicated. It is actually pretty difficult to make them look good though. Animations below:

Double Yo-yo (a bit more complicated):

[vex]

Just read this dynasty, very interesting.

[MJ4H]

Hey vexroid. Thanks for reading and letting me know.

I just noticed that the Oy-oy looks vaguely erotic.

[wade moore]

I wish I could juggle... I can hardly juggle with 2 balls!

[TroyF]

Didn't see this until now. Very cool dynasty. Mills Mess is very difficult to do "right"

By that I mean a lot of people who think they have it down, aren't doing it correctly. We all find this out MJ4H. You need to work on Reubenstein's Revenge. Not an extremely hard trick to learn and one that looks pretty cool as well.

Can you go behind the back yet? If you can't, it's something you should work on. It's an incredible transitinary tool. (go behind the back and catch the ball with a chop going directly into another trick. . . very cool move and a great visual)

5 balls IS easier than 4. Much easier. I flashed 7 the other day, but I don't think I'll ever do more than that.

Keep us posted. Juggling is a great hobby.

[MJ4H]

Yes I can go behind the back. No way 5 is easier than 4 I still have no luck with 5. I can do over 100 catches of 4 balls fairly consistently now, though. I know I'm doing Mills Mess correctly now. Rubinstein's Revenge looks cool but it's another one of those that is hard to wrap your head around what you are supposed to be doing. It will be one of the things I learn next, though.

[MJ4H]

Just an update. Haven't stopped juggling, but I also am not actively practicing new things as much as I was back in June. The only thing I really do now is occassionally attempt five balls. I'm also doing some preparatory things towards the five ball juggle. It is hard work. Some days I feel like I'm getting closer, while other days I feel like I'll never get it. I will make sure and post here the first time I really get a good run of 5 started.

[Glengoyne]

Hey glad to see this thread back from the second page and beyond.

Keep up the work. I started yo-yoing as a stress relief at the office about a year ago, but after getting a promotion my new boss said that walking around with a yo-yo visiting my staff didn't look very managerial or professional, so I am actually thinking of doing Origami in the privacy of my own office.

[MJ4H]

My next project is 3 in one hand. I have been practicing this this week, and my record is 11 catches. I can do this trick, but not very consistently. I'm only working on my strong hand right now, so no chance of six ball juggling any time soon (six ball is 3 in each hand, so this is the foundation for that).

Here is what the trick looks like. It is quite fun and looks cool (and yeah it's a pretty high toss). Easy to lose control of, though.

[MJ4H]

Small update: broke my record and made 17 catches today in the three balls with one hand fountain.

[MJ4H]

Big breakthrough today: made 9 catches twice with 5 balls. Should have this one official within the next few days (10 catches is official, 2x the number of objects). I discovered my error was that I was throwing the first few tosses correctly, then since it was so fast, I was automatically reverting to throwing the 4 ball pattern without noticing. I have started to correct this now and I am seeing immediate progress. Woohoo!