Jerry Sandusky thread

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Realistically, how many of you would turn in your friends or family if you discovered something like this was going on?

I think most people, despite all this hue and cry, wouldn't.

I think you're dead wrong on this. I think many people who may even try to help a friend cover up a murder would still not look the other way on this. And even then surely the people who may not turn the guy in would at least not let them around kids in their own workplaces for the next decade knowing its still happening? Maybe an older demographic might be different as was discussed earlier in this thread but not this group here.

[cartman]

Here's what the Board of Trustees has to say:

The Board of Trustees of The Pennsylvania State University is outraged by the horrifying details contained in the Grand Jury Report. As parents, alumni and members of the Penn State Community, our hearts go out to all of those impacted by these terrible events, especially the tragedies involving children and their families. We cannot begin to express the combination of sorrow and anger that we feel about the allegations surrounding Jerry Sandusky. We hear those of you who feel betrayed and we want to assure all of you that the Board will take swift, decisive action. At its regular meeting on Friday, November 11, 2011, the Board will appoint a Special Committee, members of which are currently being identified, to undertake a full and complete investigation of the circumstances that gave rise to the Grand Jury Report.

NJ.com : Penn State Board of Trustees releases statement

We're gonna move quickly on this. And to show just how quickly, we will create a Special Committee at the end of the week.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I prosecuted a friend who committed check fraud against me. I'll just add that I can at least buy into the cover up aspect. I do not, however, get letting him be on campus running a kids camp after he was deemed a pedophile.

The bolded is where I agree with those presently holding much stronger anti-Paterno views. That makes no sense to me either.

[King of New York]

Two Thoughts:

1) Paterno's self-pitying comments since the story broke have been stomach-churning in their own way.

2) I'm gonna cut the Board of Trustees some slack on the timetable here. Putting together this committee is not something you can do in an instant. You have to find people willing and qualified to serve on it. Remember, Penn State's Board of Trustees, like boards at other schools, are part-timers (at best) with other professional responsibilities: Penn State University - Board of Trustees

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well, my line of thinking as I've considered this some more is that it's awfully easy to moralize and judge from your armchairs or what have you. My impression is that Sandusky and Paterno were good friends. Realistically, how many of you would turn in your friends or family if you discovered something like this was going on?

I get the idea that someone would treat friends or family different when it comes to certain crimes, and I certainly admit that I'd fall into that category. But there is no one in my life who I wouldn't immediately report if they were a pedophile and I don't have much respect for anyone that would act otherwise.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Radii

I think you're dead wrong on this. I think many people who may even try to help a friend cover up a murder would still not look the other way on this. And even then surely the people who may not turn the guy in would at least not let them around kids in their own workplaces for the next decade knowing its still happening? Maybe an older demographic might be different as was discussed earlier in this thread but not this group here.

Al Cowlings would have driven the White Ford Bronco at a high rate of speed to the police station IMO.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Anyone know why this came out now? Did McQuery's conscious finally catch up to him or is there something else to the story that I missed??

In 2008, a HS student at a nearby HS that Sandusky was volunteer coaching at (Central Mountain HS?) reported to his principal that Sandusky had inappropriately touched him during a one-on-one "mentoring" session. The HS principal immediatetly reported the incident to the authorities and Sandusky was banned from said HS.

The resulting investigation from that incident finally led to all of the other stuff being uncovered. The public release of the grand jury report, and the subsequent indictments kicked off recent events.

[RainMaker]

A high school student had more fucking integrity than every piece of shit at Penn State who knew.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

A high school student had more fucking integrity than every piece of shit at Penn State who knew.

You mean the high school principal. What the student did was no different than what the GA did.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Izulde

You mean the high school principal. What the student did was no different than what the GA did.

Well both. Takes a lot of courage to report that to your principle if you're a high school student.

Board of Trustees is allowing Paterno to finish out the season. Wow.

[DeToxRox]

@ Jim_Gardner : ESPN News is reporting that former Pa. Governor Tom Ridge is potential replacement for #PennState Pres. Spanier. #PSUcharges

[stevew]

Isn't Jetsin06 on the PSU campus? Or maybe his girl graduated by now.

[LloydLungs]

If they're actually going to let Paterno finish the season, which would include at least a couple of road trips, I'd be a little worried about hostile crowds. This is a whole other level from sports-related intensity that requires increased security (i.e. LeBron's return to Cleveland). The guy's going to be surrounded by tens of thousands of people who believe he enabled a child molester. It seems to me like it could get extremely ugly.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Board of Trustees should all be gone then. With the info at hand, they simply cannot be allowed to make this decision.

What should be done is Paterno gone now, Bradley as interim. 15 seconds after the final whistle, the rest of the staff is released and the new coach is someone who is a complete outsider (no Golden, etc.) so that next September, when the trial is still in jury selection, the new coach can talk football and nothing else, because he doesn't know jack about anything else.

[RainMaker]

I think the first priority should be eliminating the pedophile enablers that currently reside in the program. Then they can worry about moving forward.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think the first priority should be eliminating the pedophile enablers that currently reside in the program. Then they can worry about moving forward.

I dunno....some of those guys are pretty important to the program. Howsabout we just tell them they can't bring anymore pedophiles on campus?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Izulde

FWIW, I think people condemning JoePa are being awfully quick to rush to judgment and probably at least slightly hypocritical.

You're absolutely right. It's disgusting that people here are judging Paterno when we all have helped cover up child rape at some point in our lives, right?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

The investigation had been going on for three years, and it was only at the end of last week that the grand jury released their findings.

I remember seeing a small story about the investigation maybe 8-12 months ago. I don't remember in what context, but this wasn't too surprising in the big picture because it was out there. What blew it up is the details about how it involved people at PSU. And then afterward, the fact that they've let this guy roam around campus as recently as last week, despite the fact that even some anonymous schlub on the internet knew he was being investigated - not to mention, these damn people have been giving GJ testimony! That's the amazing part of how unprepared they were for the fallout from this. It's not like it was sprung on everyone as a complete shock. They've known about this for months. maybe years.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

...these damn people have been giving GJ testimony! That's the amazing part of how unprepared they were for the fallout from this. It's not like it was sprung on everyone as a complete shock. They've known about this for months. maybe years.

I hadn't thought about that angle. That really is pretty remarkable, and perhaps speaks even more to the head-in-the-sand posture. Just.......wow.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well, my line of thinking as I've considered this some more is that it's awfully easy to moralize and judge from your armchairs or what have you. My impression is that Sandusky and Paterno were good friends. Realistically, how many of you would turn in your friends or family if you discovered something like this was going on?

In a heartbeat. Of course, I'm known to be able to pretty easily divorce emotion from my decisions. No one says it would be easy; but sometimes you have to do what's right, even if it's the most difficult thing you've ever had to do.

I was pretty impressed with what Jimbo Fisher said (and the fact that he came out and said it):

Jimbo Fisher, Bowden’s successor, weighed in on the sexual abuse allegations that threaten to tarnish Paterno’s 45 year career.


“You have to do what morally you think is right,” Fisher said Tuesday evening when asked about situations that might involve some kind of legal action. “You have to go by protocol, report it to the proper authorities, and I think you have a moral obligation (to) yourself and who you are to do what is right. And I think that’s up to each individual.”

Fisher said that when it comes to a coach calling the police, it boils down to what an individual’s moral obligation is. He added that he believes that too often the focus shifts from what is politically right instead of what is morally right.

“Right’s right and wrong’s wrong,” Fisher said.

Now, I guess I have to hope and pray he takes his own advice if an unfortunate situation ever arises at FSU.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Izulde

You mean the high school principal. What the student did was no different than what the GA did.

Eh, I don't know. You're still talking about a young kid, the victim. To him, going to the principal was the same as contacting the authorities, given the kid's age and the position the principal held. With McQueary, you're talking about a 28 year old man who witnessed something happening to someone else. They are not in the same position to act. Otherwise, you're essentially blaming every victim who has yet to come forward for being cowards.

[Ben E Lou]

Another thought, Ksyrup: I suppose you don't lie to a GJ unless you think you can get away with it, therefore they may have thought Sandusky would be hung out to dry and they would come across as simply not knowing about what a former employee was doing.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I wish people would stop comparing this to the Duke Lacrosse "thing". This is not about an adult woman who was a prostitute charging college aged men with raping her. While those charges are bad, they are a far cry from charges of a large adult male anal raping 10 year old boys. Many boys.

I only used it as a comparison about how guilty everyone can think the accused is until the ENTIRE story comes out in the trial. Yes, the Grand Jury report looks bad, and yes I believe it is LIKELY all this outrage will eventually be justified when the trial is over. But Grand Jury != Guilty, and we have a society built on "Innocent until proven Guilty". We have not heard all the evidence, and we have the prosecutor's view of what went on. Of course it's going to look horrible at this point.

The one thing going in favor of Grand Jury being right is we don't have the prosecutor out running this media campaign, which in the past has been a sure sign that the case is weak. But still, this country via the media is way to quick to rush to a judgement before all the evidence has come out. That's all I'm trying to say. Wait for the trial, THEN hang 'em all.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Wait for the trial, THEN hang 'em all.

The problem with that position is (a) most of the people who need to be "punished" (whether that's criminally or by losing their jobs) are not going to be on trial, and many people believe there is a need to act now to correct a systemic issue that's been in place for far too long already; and (b) Paterno has already made a statement admitting to the minimum amount of information that still points to him, McQueary, and several higher-ups being culpable on some moral/ethical level. That's enough for most of us, without needing to hear the specific details at trial. And it's certainly enough for people who work, go to school, and live in the community at PSU.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I only used it as a comparison about how guilty everyone can think the accused is until the ENTIRE story comes out in the trial. Yes, the Grand Jury report looks bad, and yes I believe it is LIKELY all this outrage will eventually be justified when the trial is over. But Grand Jury != Guilty, and we have a society built on "Innocent until proven Guilty". We have not heard all the evidence, and we have the prosecutor's view of what went on. Of course it's going to look horrible at this point.

The one thing going in favor of Grand Jury being right is we don't have the prosecutor out running this media campaign, which in the past has been a sure sign that the case is weak. But still, this country via the media is way to quick to rush to a judgement before all the evidence has come out. That's all I'm trying to say. Wait for the trial, THEN hang 'em all.

The fact that Sandusky was caught on camera (or was it just audio that detectives were listening in on?) confessing to the mother of one of his victims and saying he wishes he were dead is enough to substantiate the Grand Jury report.

[Ksyrup]

One of the interesting threads, the story of the missing DA who didn't prosecute Sandusky in 1998:

Questions on Sandusky Wrapped in 2005 Gricar Mystery - NYTimes.com

[Kodos]

This whole thing is so disturbing. If JoePa (who previously had a good reputation) can let something like this go on, what are all the really slimy guys letting happen in the name of their football program.

As for JoePa, I don't see how they can do anything but fire him. This happened on your watch, and you only did the bear legal minimum to stop it.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well, my line of thinking as I've considered this some more is that it's awfully easy to moralize and judge from your armchairs or what have you. My impression is that Sandusky and Paterno were good friends. Realistically, how many of you would turn in your friends or family if you discovered something like this was going on?

Anyone who isn't willing to do it in a heartbeat is at best an incredibly weak-willed and weak-minded person, at worst a monster. I've never been in the situation with family, but I have been in it with a friend in a case where I felt about 95% sure that he was NOT guilty of anything. He wasn't just a friend, he was a guy I'd hired in ministry and was very much enjoying training and mentoring him. A few months after I hired him, he was accused of sexual abuse of a teenaged male. The accusation was not credible to me at all for a variety of reasons, but you can never be sure, so I reported it to the police and called my superiors, a move which I knew would have him placed on immediate leave of absence. I lost one of my best leaders, fractured the relationship, and probably ruined any chance that he'd ever come on full-time staff. As expected, he was exonerated by the police. But you don't mess around with physical or sexual abuse allegations. Ever. Period.

In the time I was in youth ministry, more of the allegations of physical or sexual abuse (whether by parents or by one of my volunteers or staff) that came to my attention turned out to be false or unsubstantiated than true. The one "true" one didn't result in even an arrest, let alone a conviction. (The frustrated mother DID slap her 15-year-old daughter in the face, causing her to run away and try to spend the night with one of my female leaders. But when the cop talked to both mother and daughter that night one-and-one and then together, she had them both apologizing and hugging, and everyone went home to their own beds before 11pm.) But that doesn't matter. You report to the police first, deal with your "feelings" about it later.

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I only used it as a comparison about how guilty everyone can think the accused is until the ENTIRE story comes out in the trial. Yes, the Grand Jury report looks bad, and yes I believe it is LIKELY all this outrage will eventually be justified when the trial is over. But Grand Jury != Guilty, and we have a society built on "Innocent until proven Guilty". We have not heard all the evidence, and we have the prosecutor's view of what went on. Of course it's going to look horrible at this point.

The one thing going in favor of Grand Jury being right is we don't have the prosecutor out running this media campaign, which in the past has been a sure sign that the case is weak. But still, this country via the media is way to quick to rush to a judgement before all the evidence has come out. That's all I'm trying to say. Wait for the trial, THEN hang 'em all.

The government really can't be the arbiter of when we're allowed to react to things. They're too slow/inefficient/inaccurate at it. Think of all the other things we've accepted as a society that the government hasn't even chimed in on - they're limitless. Sure, we can be wrong sometimes, but I'd say our accuracy isn't any better or worse than the government's. And in this particular case, our available information is a lot stronger about certain facts is than any number of things we think we "know" about the world.

One of the nice things about a free country is that the accused can speak too. Yes, defense attorneys have culturally decided that nobody should ever say anything ever, up too and including during the trial. I suppose they believe that helps them have a more positive resolution in a criminal case, but I believe as a society, we're permitted to use that choice again them just like all the other information we have.

[Ksyrup]

And again, the government by way of the criminal justice system is probably never going to take up the issue of Paterno, McQueary, Spanier, and others who knew something and did nothing about it, other than the bare legal minimum, to the extent that even applies to them.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And again, the government by way of the criminal justice system is probably never going to take up the issue of Paterno, McQueary, Spanier, and others who knew something and did nothing about it, other than the bare legal minimum, to the extent that even applies to them.

Ya, and the real initial societal stance with those guys right now is a desire to see them speak out and answer questions. It appears they're going to refuse to. (We'll see what happens with Paterno today with that press conference they're "trying" to have). What's society supposed to do with that? "Well, those guys have nothing to say about that, let's talk about the Nebraska game!!" Probably not. When you're dealing with something of this degree of seriousness society is right to demand more in accountability. We are particularly anti-child rape as a society. Ignore these kind of allegations, try to talk about football, etc, at your own peril.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them.

Wow.

I've never wanted to punch an senior citizen in the face so badly as I do right now.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

It's complete bullshit to not report this kind of thing and Paterno is a grade A piece of shit for doing everything short of picking out the kids for Sandusky.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Kodos

This whole thing is so disturbing. If JoePa (who previously had a good reputation) can let something like this go on, what are all the really slimy guys letting happen in the name of their football program.

The only solace that I hope we can take in this is that child-molesting football coaches probably aren't all that common. But yes, I think I posted this earlier: the "system" in college football is such that I could see something similar happening in the majority of big-time schools in the country. All the conventional wisdom points to the fact that molested kids do not report it terribly frequently, so this would perhaps be the crime most susceptible to being covered up by a program. For most other crimes, you'll have that pesky victim who is unwilling to keep his or her mouth shut for the good of the football program.

[molson]

I'm sure "Jer's Law" will kick in any day now:....

In his autobiography, “Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story,” the football legend talked about what he called his personal law, “Jer’s Law.”

“I allowed myself to be mischievous, but I didn’t let it get to the point that someone would be intentionally hurt,” he wrote. “I swore I would tell the truth if I was ever caught doing something wrong.”

Edit: You know though, deep down, I doubt he believes this was wrong. I think he views it as all part of the "love" he has has for these kids, and this charity, and thinks the rest of us don't quite get it. It's kind of like what OJ said that one time. This is just too much love. And he believes that these actions are just a part of that love, a thing which is ultimately good and has helped so many. (I've read a lot of psychological evaluations of child molesters for work...He also possibly believes that he's helping these kids "grow up" and have experiences so that they're not as shy and uncomfortable around girls as he was growing up.).

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Realistically, how many of you would turn in your friends or family if you discovered something like this was going on?

My best friend in the whole world - a guy I'd lay down my life for and I know he'd do the same for me - have talked about this and we agree without question or hesitation we would turn the other into the police in about 2 milliseconds and never ever regret it.

[Kodos]

Yep. Friendship is important, but there is no way you don't do EVERYTHING in your power to stop a child molester from ruining some poor kid's life. I don't care if it might cost you a friendship or a job.

[MrBug708]

I think friends are a lot easier to turn in than say a family member like a spouse or a kid. Not saying that people wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Dottie Sandusky had her suspicions but didn't act on them

[Ksyrup]

From what I read, Sandusky had 6 kids - all adopted. I assume they are all grown now, but I wonder if there is going to be some sort of investigation of those relationships, too. Not sure how many boys/girls he had. When I heard they were adopted, though, I immediately got queasy.

[Autumn]

Off topic, but that's a pretty odd story about the DA who disappeared, seemingly after having destroyed his hard drive. Seems like another guy who had something to hide.

[Ksyrup]

And whether it was related in any way to Sandusky. Nothing about the timing seems to suggest it was, but it's just...odd. Also, seems clear to me the guy killed himself.

Kinda off-topic, but I love how people are always so sure about what other people have or haven't done or would do - I know he wouldn't kill himself, or if he did, he'd want his body found; or I know my son would never kill his wife, etc.

I guess it's just human nature to refuse to accept that kind of possibility for someone you know or love, and we're seeing it here probably with Paterno and Sandusky, but geez, open your eyes, people! Sons and daughters and brothers and sisters and spouses do heinous, unspeakable shit every day. I wouldn't put anything past anyone I know, if the circumstances were there for it to happen.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Saw this morning that the number of accusers is now 17. Although we'll never know who the first victim was who approached the police, kudos to him for starting the avalanche that allowed all these other people to tell someone about their secret and get it off their chest. Horrible thing to deal with when you feel you can't tell anyone.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

the fact that they've let this guy roam around campus as recently as last week, despite the fact that even some anonymous schlub on the internet knew he was being investigated - not to mention, these damn people have been giving GJ testimony! That's the amazing part of how unprepared they were for the fallout from this. It's not like it was sprung on everyone as a complete shock. They've known about this for months. maybe years.

It doesn't sound like the PSU people deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point, but I wonder if any part of him still being allowed on campus up until the indictment was made public was to not tip off Sandusky and compromise the investigation.

Originally Posted by molson

I think it says a lot about college football too that (McQueary)'s concerned that other schools will say, "ya, we'd like to give him a coaching job here but he came forward about that child raper over at Penn St - we can't have a guy like that here digging up our secrets."

From the little background that the ESPN Grantland guy provided, McQueary grew up in State College and was in the same HS class as both one of Paterno's sons and one of Sandusky's adopted sons. Impossible to know the motivation, but as far as his going to Paterno with his father, I'd guess it had as much/more to do with Sandusky being an authority figure and community pillar you've known your whole life than to something endemic to college football and the possibility of future job opportunities.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It doesn't sound like the PSU people deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point, but I wonder if any part of him still being allowed on campus up until the indictment was made public was to not tip off Sandusky and compromise the investigation.

I thought I read somewhere that Sandusky was well aware of the investigation... I know where it was, in an interview with the guy who wrote the "Touched" book. He said Sandusky called him several years ago, and then again back when the investigation made the news (about a year ago, maybe?), to apologize to him for any bad press or mentions he might get about having written the book, considering the allegations. So I don't think that had anything to do with why they were still letting him on campus - unfortunately.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

From the little background that the ESPN Grantland guy provided, McQueary grew up in State College and was in the same HS class as both one of Paterno's sons and one of Sandusky's adopted sons. Impossible to know the motivation, but as far as his going to Paterno with his father, I'd guess it had as much/more to do with Sandusky being an authority figure and community pillar you've known your whole life than to something endemic to college football and the possibility of future job opportunities.

I'd absolutely buy this if McQueary found documented proof that Sandusky was embezzling money or something like that. Take it to your superiors, let them handle it. This is just on a whole other level, and not only involves children but the safety of the college community in general.

[Logan]

Multiple people reporting that Paterno will announce that he is retiring at the end of the season.

Good luck with that.

[Ksyrup]

Once again a Seinfeld ep comes to life - pity the poor Ravens announcer, Gerry Sandusky.