Jerry Sandusky thread

[RainMaker]

McQueary should be on that list too.

[DeToxRox]

10 pm Board of Trustees presser scheduled. Originally posted from my phone so it was the bare minimum. I have to imagine Joe is done if they are calling such a late presser.

[DeToxRox]

Jim Gardner

Action News source says #JoePaterno will not coach another game. #Spanier has resigned.#PSUcharges


Jim Gardner

Assistant coach, Tom Bradley is interim coach. #PSUcharges

[DeToxRox]

Penn State Board of Trustees Press Conference

Stream of the press conference.

[Galaxy]

He's out.

Matt Millen was interesting today on ESPN. I like what he said.

[Matthean]

Taking their sweet time getting it going. Right now it's just ESPNNEWS.

Can confirm: Paterno and Spanier out.
Twitter

[spleen1015]

Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach, effective immediately.

[molson]

"Effective immediately"...words of the trustee spokesman at the press conference. The president too.

Penn St. finally does something right.

[spleen1015]

Tom Bradley interim head coach

[LloydLungs]

No change in McQueary's job status? What??

[Logan]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

No change in McQueary's job status? What??

I'm guessing a pending lawsuit stemming from him.

[BYU 14]

It just baffles me how he ever though this could have just gone away.

By making sure this was dealt with when the allegations first came out in 1998, pushing his AD and even going public himself he could have cemented his legacy as an icon.

Now his legacy destroyed because he thought it was better to protect a predator for fear of how it would make the program look. Any respect I had for Paterno is long gone and he deserves this ending.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm guessing a pending lawsuit stemming from him.

Interesting thought, just curious what his grounds would be?

[molson]

Feed out, but I think I had my fill of reporters desperately falling over each other to ask irrelevant, stupid, or repetitive questions.

[DeToxRox]

Incredibly disappointed with the PSU media covering this. They all sound so butt hurt about JoePa getting fired.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

Lol...they never disappoint. Somehow, i never see them coming, even though every time something terrible happens, here comes the wetboro church!!

Shit, if they do this may be the one time things get truly ugly. Don't know how they are going to be protected from thousands of fans already incensed over this scandal and many fueled up by alcohol.

[Matthean]

I don't see how McQueary last. I think people are jumping on Paterno since he's the icon, but now that Paterno and Spanier are gone the focus will shift. I think PSU is going to have to clean house in terms of coaching staff after their bowl game, and I don't see the new staff wanting him around.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Incredibly disappointed with the PSU media covering this. They all sound so butt hurt about JoePa getting fired.

No wonder our country, led by the younger generations, is fucked up.

[Izulde]

I understand why they did it, but this is still heartbreaking. To see 46 years of all the amazing things Paterno did for the university get wiped out in a single blow stings... and I'm not even a Penn State guy.

I do think history and the passage of time will be much more balanced towards him than what the current reaction is right now, which is how it should be.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I understand why they did it, but this is still heartbreaking. To see 46 years of all the amazing things Paterno did for the university get wiped out in a single blow stings... and I'm not even a Penn State guy.

I do think history and the passage of time will be much more balanced towards him than what the current reaction is right now, which is how it should be.

He really could have saved face, to a degree, by not playing this out and stepping down right away.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I understand why they did it, but this is still heartbreaking. To see 46 years of all the amazing things Paterno did for the university get wiped out in a single blow stings... and I'm not even a Penn State guy.

I do think history and the passage of time will be much more balanced towards him than what the current reaction is right now, which is how it should be.

JoePa put his program and winning over basic human decency, I don't see how that is amazing.

[spleen1015]

His failure to act negates every good he has ever done.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Incredibly disappointed with the PSU media covering this. They all sound so butt hurt about JoePa getting fired.

What a bunch of pricks. STFU complaining about not having anything new TONIGHT to make this call.

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Interesting thought, just curious what his grounds would be?

I'm not a lawyer so it's just speculation on my part, but I would assume a wrongful termination-type considering he did all he needed to do legally. Obviously that's also what Paterno got fired for, but maybe he doesn't get that pass because of his overall role as the leader of the program. Can't imagine why else he would still be around.

[Galaxy]

I like reading the FB comments on the Penn State page. Just disappointed in people and their twisted proprieties in life.

[Logan]

Video of the "riots" on CNN.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

He really could have saved face, to a degree, by not playing this out and stepping down right away.

Agreed with you there.

[path12]

I don't fault the students for being upset. They are college kids who love their institution and their world has been turned upside down in a week.

I do think though that they might regret their reaction in a few years.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

JoePa put his program and winning over basic human decency, I don't see how that is amazing.

He had a positive impact on a ton of people and the university in non-football related areas. All of that shouldn't be completely forgotten or dismissed because of this. I understand all the outrage and yes, this will forever taint his legacy, but there needs to be a balanced viewpoint.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

He had a positive impact on a ton of people and the university in non-football related areas. All of that shouldn't be completely forgotten or dismissed because of this. I understand all the outrage and yes, this will forever taint his legacy, but there needs to be a balanced viewpoint.

You can have your balanced viewpoint. I'll have mine. A person's character is built on tough moments. Paterno failed miserably when he had a very simple one.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

You can have your balanced viewpoint. I'll have mine. A person's character is built on tough moments. Paterno failed miserably when he had a very simple one.

+1

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Izulde

He had a positive impact on a ton of people and the university in non-football related areas. All of that shouldn't be completely forgotten or dismissed because of this. I understand all the outrage and yes, this will forever taint his legacy, but there needs to be a balanced viewpoint.

It's an insult to the victims and their families. We aren't talking about some typical college violations (test taking, pay-for-play, ect.); We are talking about the molestation of multiple kids and teens. In my opinion, this might be the inhumane act one could do. The students and media need to get a grasp on reality.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Izulde

He had a positive impact on a ton of people and the university in non-football related areas. All of that shouldn't be completely forgotten or dismissed because of this. I understand all the outrage and yes, this will forever taint his legacy, but there needs to be a balanced viewpoint.

Well, he's just losing his job that he's been too long at anyway, he's not going into hiding, or being charged with anything (at least not yet), and he has a chance to redeem himself a bit if can say the right things and make the right apologies down the road.

I feel slightly bad for him, and "Big red" (as I call him). They're kind of in the third tier of Sandusky's victims. There's the real victims, the kids. Then the friends and family of Sandusky, and the players, who are all defined by this now, which sucks. And then the clueless, complicit "victims" like Paterno and Big Red. Yes, they did fail as humans, and they deserve this, but it all goes back to Sandusky. I'm sure there's plenty of old men and young naive graduate assistants that would have similarly botched this situation - they've just never had to actually deal with child rapists. Big red just wanted to put his sneakers in the locker. He stumbled onto child rape. Ya, his lack of reaction to that is wrong, but if not for the rape, he could have put his damn shoes away and gone on with his life. Hopefully Sandusky feels some guilt for destroying so many people's futures, the victims, and all the collateral damage, and does the decent thing and offs himself shortly.

Edit: We understand, at least somewhat, why child victims of sex abuse, and domestic violence and rape victims don't come forward. (though, like I touched on earlier in the thread, we just BARELY understand this stuff...certainly we're the first generation to really grapple with it). I do believe there's a similar type of mental situation going on in places like this, and previous organizations that have dealt with this. It's easy to scream and be angry, and those emotions are certainly justified, but it's probably more important to psychologically understand why people fail in these situations and what, organizationally, can be done to help mitigate or eliminate that risk that this stuff occurs. I don't think you can just believe that Joe Paterno is an evil monster and then just move on and assume nothing like this ever happens anywhere else. This is one of those psychological flaws that occurs with humans in organizations - I mean, we still don't really understand why seemingly otherwise normal German people could get a new fancy armband and do terrible things in the name of "following orders."

[thesloppy]

Not to be too glib, but history says his legacy will be pretty much instantly repaired the moment he dies.

[SportsDino]

Character is every day of your life, we all know Paterno is going to be in the history books (with one of the ugliest asterisks now)... but it is completely fair to judge a man based on what they do when they are faced with the most challenging moment of their life and how they respond to it.

Paterno played the odds for a decade that the dirt wouldn't come out, he made or played along with the decision to enable a child molestor out of fear of a little tarnish on his reputation. This is a common phenonmenon as others have described, people won't turn in their family for doing this because of psychological effects of their own ego being tarnished through association.

But that is what it takes to be a man, you know something is wrong, unbelievably wrong, and you take the hit to do the right thing. I think a large number of people would cover up shameful things of their family and friends, including this, and I would call each of them a sniveling cowardly bitch. It doesn't matter if it is the status quo, or the culture, you ultimately are the caretaker of what is right and wrong and what you want to be associated with you... and history is littered with men who have stood up for that and paid the ultimate price for that and were spat on during the process, and others who have pulled through and been considered heroic for it.

People are a mix of good and bad, and there are always excuses and special situations, so without a backbone you are neither worth the credit for your successes or responsible for your failures, your just one lucky or unlucky piece of shit floating through the universe. Maybe Paterno didn't do shit at PSU, maybe he just happened to be napping through games on the sideline while a bunch of young kids racked up a lot of wins. Maybe his legend is a statistical anomaly resulting from being the turd floating in the right pool of water at the right time for a few decades. You want to be a legend you take responsibiility for crushing the fuck out of anything that stands in your way in your life and the responsibility for when you failed and make a sincere effort to correct it.

Even now, in hindsight, there is shit he can be doing today to prove he is a man and not play a victim. He can't even do that. 400 some wins, oh well, maybe some nerdy stats geek will care (hell that is me most days, I love me some numbers) but people are entirely justified to chose how they remember a man and he is giving them plenty of ammunition to downplay his relevance as anything at all in history.

EDIT: Here is balance for you:

PSU program to date <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Allowing someone to rape kids

I consider anyone who can flip that measure, even by the tiniest shred, to be an asshat. My opinion, you don't have to like it.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So they fire Paterno? Nice way to try and save face. If they think they're doing any of the young men on that team any favors, they don't know a damn thing. They'd be better off at this point just forfeiting the rest of the season & giving every player a transfer. At least Paterno could have kept the team focused on the game... Now they have a game on Saturday and if there is any thought that they will be ready to play it's a fantasy.

I love how EVERYBODY is so goddamn righteous, knowing exactly what Paterno should have done. Should he have done more than he did? Well... with all that is coming out now, it looks that way. When it comes down to it, we don't know what went on now any more than we did a week ago. Internal politics are a bitch.

If I had to bet on it, here's how it went down... Paterno reports it to his superiors. They tell him what he already knows: that this could destroy the school & his career. They tell him to shut up and talk to Sandusky to try and get him some help. It doesn't work. Sandusky was skilled at hiding what a piece of shit he is, and he promised he would get help. By the time they find out that he's still molesting young boys they are in it so deep all they can do is keep trying to get him to stop.

Remember... Paterno is/was a football coach. They think they can influence people more than most people do. He also probably felt an obligation to the players he was coaching, and knew what the exposure would do to them. Now that the university told him after 62 years that he is out, I hope he writes a book outlining everything that everyone involved told him. Who told him to shut his mouth, etc? I think it's more likely now than if he had finished the season.

Penn State should not play a game this Saturday. Or next week. Or in 2011. Then petition the NCAA to let any player who wants to transfer to do so without having to sit out a year.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Not to be too glib, but history says his legacy will be pretty much instantly repaired the moment he dies.

Eh...It will be mixed I think.

[SportsDino]

Then I take it Joe Pa's legacy is raping kids then.... because that is exactly what he did to keep his career. The moment he chose to play along to avoid shame in my book makes him a willing participant in that shame.

Joe 'AssRaper' Paterno... I may shit my pants, but no way will I shit on the legacy of PSU football... Unless I get caught.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by molson

Hopefully Sandusky feels some guilt for destroying so many people's futures, the victims, and all the collateral damage, and does the decent thing and offs himself shortly.

God will judge him.

[stevew]

JoePa's legacy will be turning boys into men.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I love how EVERYBODY is so goddamn righteous, knowing exactly what Paterno should have done.

Seriously, how many answers does this this question really have? I can only think of one.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

So they fire Paterno? Nice way to try and save face. If they think they're doing any of the young men on that team any favors, they don't know a damn thing. They'd be better off at this point just forfeiting the rest of the season & giving every player a transfer. At least Paterno could have kept the team focused on the game... Now they have a game on Saturday and if there is any thought that they will be ready to play it's a fantasy.

You are so very very wrong here I don't even know what the fuck to say. You must have money on the game or something to even believe for a fucking minute that Paterno coaching another PSU game would in any way be a good idea.

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I love how EVERYBODY is so goddamn righteous, knowing exactly what Paterno should have done. Should he have done more than he did? Well... with all that is coming out now, it looks that way. When it comes down to it, we don't know what went on now any more than we did a week ago. Internal politics are a bitch.

Well, anyone with a sense of right or wrong knows EXACTLY what Paterno should have done. Apparently that is everyone here but you.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

So they fire Paterno? Nice way to try and save face. If they think they're doing any of the young men on that team any favors, they don't know a damn thing. They'd be better off at this point just forfeiting the rest of the season & giving every player a transfer. At least Paterno could have kept the team focused on the game... Now they have a game on Saturday and if there is any thought that they will be ready to play it's a fantasy.

I love how EVERYBODY is so goddamn righteous, knowing exactly what Paterno should have done. Should he have done more than he did? Well... with all that is coming out now, it looks that way. When it comes down to it, we don't know what went on now any more than we did a week ago. Internal politics are a bitch.

If I had to bet on it, here's how it went down... Paterno reports it to his superiors. They tell him what he already knows: that this could destroy the school & his career. They tell him to shut up and talk to Sandusky to try and get him some help. It doesn't work. Sandusky was skilled at hiding what a piece of shit he is, and he promised he would get help. By the time they find out that he's still molesting young boys they are in it so deep all they can do is keep trying to get him to stop.

Remember... Paterno is/was a football coach. They think they can influence people more than most people do. He also probably felt an obligation to the players he was coaching, and knew what the exposure would do to them. Now that the university told him after 62 years that he is out, I hope he writes a book outlining everything that everyone involved told him. Who told him to shut his mouth, etc? I think it's more likely now than if he had finished the season.

Penn State should not play a game this Saturday. Or next week. Or in 2011. Then petition the NCAA to let any player who wants to transfer to do so without having to sit out a year.

There are things that are more important then school and career. As sportdino said, you have to be a man. Paterno is not a man. And definitely not a person that should be leading young men into any field.
What would is a better statement to make to these players he has an obligation to? Standing up and doing something that will save the lives of young boys or keeping your winning and reputation intact? What would these young men appreciate more? What type of character do you think should be impressed upon them? That winning is more important then basic human decency?

I hope Paterno does write a book. I hope is apologetic and begs for forgiveness. I hope he donates money to these kids, whose lives he helped ruin.

There is no defending him. He made a mistake that ruined peoples lives.

Its sad that people dont think he should have gone immediately to the police. But instead felt covering it up was a better idea.

[Danny]

Why is this thread 9 pages long?

Anyone who would commit these acts is a piece of shit. Anyone who failed to take action and let these acts go on is a piece of shit. End of thread.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Eh...It will be mixed I think.

I'm (perhaps obviously) thinking of how quickly Michael Jackson (and others before him) returned to some degree of hero status, after his death. Certainly that didn't hold true for everybody or even most people's opinion, but the public/media reaction presented was overwhelmingly positive, and glossed over the scandals almost entirely, and as a culture we seem to forgive/forget a lot of shameful crap upon someone's death. I assume the reaction to Joe's passing will be similar.

[stevew]

They should remove victories this season(and the record)

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm (perhaps obviously) thinking of how quickly Michael Jackson (and others before him) returned to some degree of hero status, after his death. Certainly that didn't hold true for everybody or even most people's opinion, but the public/media reaction presented was overwhelmingly positive. I assume the reaction to Joe's passing will be similar.

Ya, we're pretty forgiving. Roman Polanski has a ton of high-profile defenders and he drugged an underage girl and anally raped her.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm (perhaps obviously) thinking of how quickly Michael Jackson (and others before him) returned to some degree of hero status, after his death. Certainly that didn't hold true for everybody or even most people's opinion, but the public/media reaction presented was overwhelmingly positive. I assume the reaction to Joe's passing will be similar.

My guess would be it depends on the timing, not to be morbid here.

[stevew]

Joe Pos is embedded in PSU this year I believe. The book should be awesome.

[molson]

I look forward to the presentation of the "Joe Paterno Trophy" after the Big 10 championship game.

[SportsDino]

Removing Football wins would be an insult... the season doesn't have anything to do with this crime, the whole point should be that some things are outside and BEYOND football, and should be handled with no wavering in an ethical and legal manner. PSU failed on both counts, Paterno is being attacked on his ethics.

Making it an issue of NCAA invalidating seasons muddies the waters with no real benefit to human deceny. Hell, for the infractions it does make sense for (like NCAA's traditional cheating enforcement) it is pretty much considered a cheesy punishment that 'fans don't care about'.