More sabre rattling from North Korea

[cartman]

I guess he wants to be remembered as Kim Jong Un and Done.

BBC News - North Korea 'plans third nuclear test'

[molson]

Luckily, North Korea sucks at everything. If they didn't, I'm sure the U.S. reaction would be very different.

Though, I can't help but wonder if the regime could be toppled in a day or two. It's so much less complicated than the middle east. Just an isolated country of people who have been starved and abused for half a century. And most of them get just enough info now to know how different things are, for people who share their language and culture, just a few miles away.

[RainMaker]

I think the issue would be what you do with them when you're done. Tons of refugees would flow into China who probably doesn't want them. There would have to be some massive humanitarian efforts put together by a coalition of countries.

[molson]

I think the South is already preparing for that inevitability. They even have a "ministry of unification." It's not your ordinary refugee situation. It's the same culture, language, genetics. They wouldn't have to even go anywhere. Of course, 25 million people overnight would be quite the project. But from what I can tell, everyone assumes it will happen eventually. But ya, it can't really happen tomorrow.

[RainMaker]

I think it's just a big task for surrounding countries. North Korea essentially has nothing. At least with an Iraq you had a bunch of oil fields to bring in money.

One thing I'd be fascinated with is getting information on the culture inside. It's so bizarre and there will likely be some amazing stories. There is a great National Geographic documentary on Netflix about them. They send in a doctor to perform basic cataract surgery on people there. Literally hundreds of people who couldn't see can now see because of it. After the doctor removes the bandage the people praise the Great Leader for it and go into a weird trance.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

Though, I can't help but wonder if the regime could be toppled in a day or two.

Depends on how much collateral damage you're willing to absorb to do that. Yeah, you probably could topple the regime in fairly short order, but they'd retaliate against South Korea the minute they tipped to any kind of movement.

Scorched earth and all that.

[Desnudo]

Nuke em from orbit

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Depends on how much collateral damage you're willing to absorb to do that. Yeah, you probably could topple the regime in fairly short order, but they'd retaliate against South Korea the minute they tipped to any kind of movement.

Scorched earth and all that.

Absolutely, these crazy bastards don't have any regard for their own people, so despite the ease with which they could be taken down, they would likely take as many with them as possible.

[Matthean]

"We do not hide that the various satellites and long-range rockets we will continue to launch, as well as the high-level nuclear test we will proceed with, are aimed at our arch-enemy, the United States," KCNA quoted it as saying.

"Settling accounts with the US needs to be done with force, not with words," it added.

Merely a question of when really.

[panerd]

For those that speak of the ease of a military operation. How easy?

Easier than the first Korea conflict? Easier than Afganistan? Easier than Vietnam?

In these scenerios I assume that China and Russia don't mind the US meddling in their own backyards? North Korea is part of the "axis of evil" and all right?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by panerd

For those that speak of the ease of a military operation. How easy?

Easier than the first Korea conflict? Easier than Afganistan? Easier than Vietnam?

In these scenerios I assume that China and Russia don't mind the US meddling in their own backyards? North Korea is part of the "axis of evil" and all right?

Toppling, probably fairly easy, but it's the aftermath that would fall in line with all those operations above and not what we need or want at this point in time, another occupation that drags on for years.

China is an interesting player in this. They have reprimanded their evil little cousin in the past and they may do it again with the economic interest they have tied up in the US now, I.E our loanshark.

[MrBug708]

It seems the middle east has a religious aspect that complicates the issue. I don't see North Korea having that same resistance that comes in a lot of other places. I also don't think North Korea is interested in arming half their population to fight building to building either.

[cartman]

NK would have one hell of a first punch, but they don't have anything to follow it up with. They are counting on the fear of damage they could do in the first week or two, and then hoping China comes in to back them up like in the 50s.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by panerd

For those that speak of the ease of a military operation. How easy?

Easier than the first Korea conflict? Easier than Afganistan? Easier than Vietnam?

In these scenerios I assume that China and Russia don't mind the US meddling in their own backyards? North Korea is part of the "axis of evil" and all right?

Not to mention we have no stomach to fight anymore.

[molson]

My sense is that North Korea would fold like a cheap lawn chair shockingly quickly. I don't think their heavy weaponry, including the nuclear arsenal, actually work. And while the military has manpower, those people aren't motivated by religion, and I don't think, even loyalty to the regime. Being in the military means you get to eat once in a while, that's it. This is a country that engages in hilarious deception and exaggeration regarding what they're doing economically, I'm sure that carries over to the military as well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

At times like these, I always like to go and get a fair and balanced report on the situation straight from the source........

News From KOREAN CENTRAL NEWS AGENCY of DPRK

[JediKooter]

I think the problem with North Korea is the whole 'cult of personality' that is so pervasive there. Something tells me that there won't be North Koreans waving little USA flags as our tanks go rolling down their streets and would be extremely reluctant to show any disobedience to their Dear Leader. Oh there will be some, but, the majority won't. The populace there has been so brainwashed and bullied that they would probably think that any foreign invasion is really just a test of their loyalty. The thought of not going to a North Korean concentration camp is pretty motivating.

Militarily, they'd probably lose all of their air forces rather quickly or they would be so ineffective, that it just wouldn't make much of a difference. On the ground though, I think it would be a whole different ball game.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Militarily, they'd probably lose all of their air forces rather quickly or they would be so ineffective, that it just wouldn't make much of a difference. On the ground though, I think it would be a whole different ball game.

Our naval and air is so far superior that I doubt there would be much of a land aspect.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Our naval and air is so far superior that I doubt there would be much of a land aspect.

It wouldn't be if we struck first. But if they decided to launch a massive artillery barrage at South Korea, they could do some serious damage in the very beginning.

The land battle would devolve into something like what is happening in Afghanistan, but with better trained and organized troops on the NK side.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Our naval and air is so far superior that I doubt there would be much of a land aspect.

Actually I could see a ground battle getting drawn out. The terrain is very mountainous and reminds me a lot of Afghanistan. The NK are expert tunnel diggers too. However, if there could be a total sea and air blockade (which I think would be easy, minus any outside interference), it would just be a matter of time before their land forces are 'starved out'.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think the problem with North Korea is the whole 'cult of personality' that is so pervasive there. Something tells me that there won't be North Koreans waving little USA flags as our tanks go rolling down their streets and would be extremely reluctant to show any disobedience to their Dear Leader. Oh there will be some, but, the majority won't. The populace there has been so brainwashed and bullied that they would probably think that any foreign invasion is really just a test of their loyalty. The thought of not going to a North Korean concentration camp is pretty motivating.

I've always been fascinated by that aspect of North Korea, and have read a few books to get a read on it, but one thing I haven't heard anything about is the perspective of the military. But I think the "brainwashing" of the civilians is starting to break down. There are stories from defectors that gave me that impression (it is actually possible to get out through China, thousands do it every year). People rig televisions to get over the air TV signals from Seoul, word spreads (carefully), and I think the younger generation knows the deal. The older generation was more married to underlying social and economic philosophies, but they're dying out.

[Butter]

So I guess the question is, if they actually have nukes can we really just afford to go in there guns a-blazing without essentially sacrificing a city like Seoul?

I mean, when we nuked Japan nearly 70 years ago, we hit some strategic spots, but nothing that is anywhere near a population center as Seoul is. We could be talking about death tolls in the hundreds of thousands or millions with one strike. Not to mention if they just go apeshit and have multiple nukes and could hit Tokyo or something like that.

I guess this is where we have to rely heavily on our intelligence. I feel somewhat better about the intelligence community after having seen Zero Dark Thirty, but NK is nuckin' futs. I put nothing past them.

[Desnudo]

I'm fairly sure that if an army marches on its stomach, they would be dead after a week. Their logistics and supply situation have to be terrible.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

I've always been fascinated by that aspect of North Korea, and have read a few books to get a read on it, but one thing I haven't heard anything about is the perspective of the military. But I think the "brainwashing" of the civilians is starting to break down. There are stories from defectors that gave me that impression (it is actually possible to get out through China, thousands do it every year). People rig televisions to get over the air TV signals from Seoul, word spreads (carefully), and I think the younger generation knows the deal. The older generation was more married to underlying social and economic philosophies, but they're dying out.

I think that's the 'X' factor in all of it. How many will realize that this is their chance for a hopefully democratic NK compared to how many think it's a test of their loyalty. It's just really really hard to get a good gage of the possible number of North Korean resistance fighters that would join an invading army, because of how little information comes out of that place.

Personally, let them saber rattle all they want. They will eventually starve themselves out or they will piss off the wrong country and it will all take care of itself. However, if I was running the show...I'd have some of our Navy out in international waters off both coasts of North Korea and each time they launch a missile/rocket, shoot it down.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I'd have some of our Navy out in international waters off both coasts of North Korea and each time they launch a missile/rocket, shoot it down.

Related:

The rocket is also a poke in the eye for Japan, which had threatened to shoot it down but in the event wisely held its fire.

BBC News - North Korea thumbs nose at enemies

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

that whole situation feels like it's out of a fiction novel or a comic book

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Related:


BBC News - North Korea thumbs nose at enemies

Hey, Japan and I are on the same page.

[mckerney]

Conventional weapons from North Korea may not be a problem, but aren't they believed to have a rather formidable ability to wage cyber warfare? A cyber attack on the US has the potential to be far more devastating than any military action.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Conventional weapons from North Korea may not be a problem, but aren't they believed to have a rather formidable ability to wage cyber warfare? A cyber attack on the US has the potential to be far more devastating than any military action.

I always thought that this would be the best way to go if some entity really wanted to hurt the US. Knock out the internet and knock out the financial institutions and that will bring us to our knees faster than flying planes into buildings or detonating dirty bombs.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I always thought that this would be the best way to go if some entity really wanted to hurt the US. Knock out the internet and knock out the financial institutions and that will bring us to our knees faster than flying planes into buildings or detonating dirty bombs.

That along with the power grid and water utilities could cripple the country and is more likely than a missile from North Korea hitting us.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by mckerney

That along with the power grid and water utilities could cripple the country and is more likely than a missile from North Korea hitting us.

Bingo! Totally agree with you on that.

[molson]

Once in my life I'd like to rattle an actual sabre.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

Once in my life I'd like to rattle an actual sabre.

Sheathed or un-sheathed?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

Once in my life I'd like to rattle an actual sabre.

Hit him in the corner when his back is to you.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Hit him in the corner when his back is to you.

Pat LaFontaine won't know what hit him.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Sheathed or un-sheathed?

Honestly, whatever I can get my hands on.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

Honestly, whatever I can get my hands on.

Just don't grab the fork. Fork rattling just doesn't have the same weight as rattling a saber does.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Articles like these make me wish this situation would come to a head at some level. These people really could use some help.

North Koreans Reportedly Turn to Cannibalism Due to 'Hidden Famine' - Yahoo! News

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm guessing the royalties weren't paid for the use of this song in a video depicting an attack on the U.S. Video was released by the N. Korean gov't.......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

North Korea reportedly fired off a new nuclear test bomb.

South Korea believes North Korea conducted third atomic test | Fox News

[Comey]

North Korea reminds me of Krikkit from the Hitchhiker's Guide series of books. I think that scares me considerably.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Comey

North Korea reminds me of Krikkit from the Hitchhiker's Guide series of books. I think that scares me considerably.

Hopefully they don't come down over New York dropping robots bashing everyone with cricket bats....

[Warhammer]

"Whop"

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Hopefully they don't come down over New York dropping robots bashing everyone with cricket bats....

Too right. Let's hope they keep working on that nuclear thingy instead! God helps us all if they get cricket bats!

[Lathum]

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...rearodman.html

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationw...rearodman.html

From reading quotes I don't think Rodman realizes he is in North Korea

[JediKooter]

I think there's times where Rodman doesn't realize he's Rodman.

[panerd]

I think it is for the filming of a documentary for a new series "Vice" on HBO. I have a feeling the end result will be a lot different than a friendly meet and greet but since it's Dennis Rodman I guess I could be totally wrong.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I think it is for the filming of a documentary for a new series "Vice" on HBO. I have a feeling the end result will be a lot different than a friendly meet and greet but since it's Dennis Rodman I guess I could be totally wrong.

Yeah, I'm really interested to see the end product. I don't think it will be quite as fluffy as the Rodman public comments would lead you to believe.

[molson]

Dennis Rodman would solve all the world's problems if only we had the courage to let him.