FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

It was different officers involved in the two incidents.

Really? Holy shit, I thought it was only one cop did all the shootings across America.

So I guess my obvious answer back would be that it was different races of "suspects" also (not sure how the Tulsa case is a suspect but I don't know what to call him to be honest besides dead for no reason).

[molson]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Really? Holy shit, I thought it was only one cop did all the shootings across America.

So I guess my obvious answer back would be that it was different races of "suspects" also (not sure how the Tulsa case is a suspect but I don't know what to call him to be honest besides dead for no reason).

So a good officer handles a situation well, brings someone in without further violence - he's still a racist and/or a bad cop, because if the suspect was a different race, it obviously would have gone differently. The reality is, cops are individuals, an officer who handles a situation well didn't necessary do it only because the liked the race of the suspect more. Plenty of officers handle volatile situation involving minorities well (most of the time it goes well, without incident, and most officers never shoot anyone)

The only way the logic works is if we assume there's one unified national Police force and all officers are identical clones in that system. It's a very common human flaw to group people you don't like and assign them negative characteristics. And ya, those people would make shity cops and prosecutors

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

But looking back, what on EARTH was that guy doing in a patrol car by himself that night??? We were both 21-year-old immature kids.

Cops rode solo from very early in their careers in every rural area I'm aware of.
And I knew plenty that were very early 20s at most, I don't recall anything problematic about it tbh.

Cops haven't changed, perps have {shrug}

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is Tulsa the one I saw this morning where the suspect reaches into his vehicle while walking back to it with his hands up?

If he was being told to stop & reached anyway, that's going to get you shot a good percentage of the time.

edit to add: The clip I saw had no audio & I've been trying to deal with a wife computer problem most of the morning so I have no idea if there's audio, more detail, etc.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

So a good officer handles a situation well, brings someone in without further violence - he's still a racist and/or a bad cop, because if the suspect was a different race, it obviously would have gone differently. The reality is, cops are individuals, an officer who handles a situation well didn't necessary do it only because the liked the race of the suspect more. Plenty of officers handle volatile situation involving minorities well (most of the time it goes well, without incident, and most officers never shoot anyone)

The only way the logic works is if we assume there's one unified national Police force and all officers are identical clones in that system. It's a very common human flaw to group people you don't like and assign them negative characteristics. And ya, those people would make shity cops and prosecutors

True, but at the same time I think most here would assume that officers uphold the law and tell the truth. But we know the tell the truth part isn't true now that people have cameras on them at all times with cell phones.

Do you think the Tulsa PD would have have stuck with the original story told by the cops that he didn't have his hands up at all (which you have to be blind not to see). Why did one officer shoot with a taser while the other a gun. Thank god the Tulsa PD hasn't shot a guy with a gun instead of a taser before... oh wait...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/us/tul...aughter-trial/

That's right, they had a deputy convicted because he confused his taser with his gun.

Maybe she hadn't heard about this story about using a taser instead.

[murrayyyyy]

One last question for those in the know because I don't and haven't heard a good reason.

Why the hell do they send a copter and 4 police cars for a stalled vehicle?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

One last question for those in the know because I don't and haven't heard a good reason.

Why the hell do they send a copter and 4 police cars for a stalled vehicle?

Judging by the number of stalled and abondoned vehicles I see on a daily basis, they usually don't.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Cops rode solo from very early in their careers in every rural area I'm aware of.
And I knew plenty that were very early 20s at most, I don't recall anything problematic about it tbh.

Cops haven't changed, perps have {shrug}

That comes up a lot at police trainings. There will be a scenario they have to walk through where they're responding volatile domestic violence call where people might be armed. There's 3 or 4 officers, and different feedback and criticisms are offered about how they could manage the situation better.

But then it also has to be acknowledged at the training that in more rural areas of the state, officers are going into that same situation all by themselves, or maybe with one other person. There's different risks there. They will probably be more cautious by themselves, which can have some advantages, but it's also more likely they lose control of the situations, which in the very rare scenario, can end up in someone getting killed, but much more often, can screw up an investigation to where the officers and prosecutors aren't getting the information they need about what happened in an efficient and accurate way.

[cuervo72]

Not a shooting, but not a "good cop" story either.

Police Accidentally Record Themselves Conspiring to Fabricate Criminal Charges Against Protester | American Civil Liberties Union

(and yes, the guy is white)

[Easy Mac]

Charlotte is joining in the fun now

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

T I don't know that the others hold the same contempt for both though, as opposed to putting Rapinoe in the "clueless white girl/SJW" bin (as opposed to angry/unthankful black man). I could be wrong on that.

Oh I can assure you that I wouldn't use the ashes of either for even cat litter.

And the reactions I got from my social media when I posted how one opposing team -- Washington maybe? -- shut off her attempt to grab 15 secs of "fame" by simply moving the anthem up prior to the teams coming out on the field gives me every reason to believe she'd be just as despised ... if anyone knew who the hell she was or that her actions existed.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh I can assure you that I wouldn't use the ashes of either for even cat litter.

And the reactions I got from my social media when I posted how one opposing team -- Washington maybe? -- shut off her attempt to grab 15 secs of "fame" by simply moving the anthem up prior to the teams coming out on the field gives me every reason to believe she'd be just as despised ... if anyone knew who the hell she was or that her actions existed.

I can't wait to live in Jon's America where we use the ashes of dead people for cat litter and the thought police are constantly prowling around keeping the order. I need to save money on my litter. Can I choose the ethnicity of my litter for better degradation?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Is Tulsa the one I saw this morning where the suspect reaches into his vehicle while walking back to it with his hands up?

If he was being told to stop & reached anyway, that's going to get you shot a good percentage of the time.

edit to add: The clip I saw had no audio & I've been trying to deal with a wife computer problem most of the morning so I have no idea if there's audio, more detail, etc.

Copter cam shows a blood streak from the top to the bottom of the outside window. He was not reaching into his car.

[RainMaker]

What happened in Charlotte?

[Suicane75]

I've only seen the video without audio, but how are the cops supposed to know the window isn't down. Why is he walking back to the car? Surely they aren't commanding him to walk away from them. Sucks for the guy, but if he just drops to the ground, he's still alive.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I've only seen the video without audio, but how are the cops supposed to know the window isn't down.

They said he reached through the window, which is kind of hard to do with the window rolled up.

Why is he walking back to the car? Surely they aren't commanding him to walk away from them.

Sucks for the guy, but if he just drops to the ground, he's still alive.

I've seen it with audio, but you can't hear the commands being given to him. To me it looks like he goes to his car and leans against it so he can be searched. He gets in the typical position for that.

But while we don't know what specific commands were being given, we know that the initial report was full of lies, including claims that he didn't have his hands up, that he kept reaching for his pockets, that he reached through the window.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

They said he reached through the window, which is kind of hard to do with the window rolled up.



I've seen it with audio, but you can't hear the commands being given to him. To me it looks like he goes to his car and leans against it so he can be searched. He gets in the typical position for that.

But while we don't know what specific commands were being given, we know that the initial report was full of lies, including claims that he didn't have his hands up, that he kept reaching for his pockets, that he reached through the window.

OK, I've seen the whole video now. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I see him do everything they said he did. He clearly puts his hands down right before they shoot him, from where they're standing they have no fucking idea if that window is up or down. Quite frankly I think he's lucky he didn't get shot walking back to his car, hands up or not. I can't believe for one second that the cop is telling him "Put your hands up and walk 100 back to your car." When the video starts he's practically standing right in front of the cop car.

Again, It sucks he's dead, but he does everything wrong, and the minute I see his hands move in front of that window, all bets are off.

[CU Tiger]

This Charlotte deal is so damn frustrating.
I'm not sure the legitimacy of the shooting as e have a report the guy repeatedly exited the car holding a gun, then got back in the car and got out again still holding the gun, didnt comply etc.

Of course the validity of all police reports are suspect these days until we see boy cam footage.

So to protest we have rioters blocking traffic on the interstate and breaking into trucks and stealing products out of the tractor trailer on the interstate. That will teach those pig police officers, we will steal from trucking companies. WTF.

This is where the whole damn message gets lost.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

This Charlotte deal is so damn frustrating.
I'm not sure the legitimacy of the shooting as e have a report the guy repeatedly exited the car holding a gun, then got back in the car and got out again still holding the gun, didnt comply etc.

Of course the validity of all police reports are suspect these days until we see boy cam footage.

So to protest we have rioters blocking traffic on the interstate and breaking into trucks and stealing products out of the tractor trailer on the interstate. That will teach those pig police officers, we will steal from trucking companies. WTF.

This is where the whole damn message gets lost.

The deceased man's family is claiming that he is disabled and was holding a book, not a gun, and that is the narrative that has spread among the black community in Charlotte. If they're lying, I hope there's a way to hold them accountable for the rioting. And of course, if they're telling the truth, there should be hell to pay for the officer(s) involved.

The two stories are so far apart that in glancing over social media last night (didn't have time to read anything in depth), I thought there had been three different deaths of black men by police--one in Tulsa, one in Charlotte where the guy got out of the car with a gun, and one in some other location where a disabled man was sitting in the car, reading a book, waiting to pick up his kid from school. I didn't realize until this morning that the last two were the same incident.

[Drake]

Someone needs to tell the cops in the US that no one uses PCP anymore. That was the '70s. If you want to make up shit about someone being drug intoxicated and therefore dangerous, move on to meth or drugs people are actually using today.



That's not the perfect graph to illustrate this point, but the whole PCP as the go-to for drug intoxication is more Reefer Madness meta-language than an officer actually thinking someone was PCP intoxicated.

Hells, I worked in drug treatment for 7 years in the late 90s/early-oughts, and I can count on one hand the number of intakes I did where anyone had even done PCP. I blame those stupid after school specials on angel dust for this bullshit.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

OK, I've seen the whole video now. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I see him do everything they said he did. He clearly puts his hands down right before they shoot him, from where they're standing they have no fucking idea if that window is up or down. Quite frankly I think he's lucky he didn't get shot walking back to his car, hands up or not. I can't believe for one second that the cop is telling him "Put your hands up and walk 100 back to your car." When the video starts he's practically standing right in front of the cop car.

Again, It sucks he's dead, but he does everything wrong, and the minute I see his hands move in front of that window, all bets are off.

I should see a lot more dead white people at dui check points if this is the case.

[Grammaticus]

There should be body cam footage, since that is the law locally. Of course the state passed a law earlier this year that body cam footage is exempt from public records requests.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

There should be body cam footage, since that is the law locally. Of course the state passed a law earlier this year that body cam footage is exempt from public records requests.

Wasn't it an off duty in plain clothes officer who shot the guy in Charlotte?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Wasn't it an off duty in plain clothes officer who shot the guy in Charlotte?

Perhaps. He was also black. No book was found at the scene. A gun was recovered.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Perhaps. He was also black. No book was found at the scene. A gun was recovered.

True, was just pointing out that there probably won't be body cam footage with him being off duty. When I hear the book story last night my first thought was, that's the best story they could come up with?

I'm also confused by the economic protest that was called for also. So is it just white owned businesses or just white clerks or just any business? Wouldn't this just hurt your own community by not spending money so people have jobs?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

OK, I've seen the whole video now. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I see him do everything they said he did. He clearly puts his hands down right before they shoot him, from where they're standing they have no fucking idea if that window is up or down. Quite frankly I think he's lucky he didn't get shot walking back to his car, hands up or not. I can't believe for one second that the cop is telling him "Put your hands up and walk 100 back to your car." When the video starts he's practically standing right in front of the cop car.

Again, It sucks he's dead, but he does everything wrong, and the minute I see his hands move in front of that window, all bets are off.

He does not put his hands down before they shoot him. That part happens after they shoot him. Him putting his hands down before they shoot him doesn't even fit what the officer says:

She was yelling at him to stop, for probably at least 10 to 15 seconds. He gets to the window of the SUV, and has his hands in the air, looks at them ... and his left hand goes into the window," at which point one officer deployed his Taser and Shelby fired her service weapon. Shelby had a Taser but did not take it out, the attorney said.

The shot happening before his hands down fits both what the officer says here (his hands are clearly not going through the window while they are at his pockets) and the blood evidence (which shows a trail of blood from the top of the window to the bottom).

Also notice that she said his hand goes into the window, not towards it. So despite your argument, she claims she could in fact see that the window was rolled down because she said his hand went through it. Besides that, I can see that her angle might be difficult to tell, but the officer to the left of her can clearly tell if that window is down or not unless he's blind.

[ISiddiqui]

The interesting thing about the audio from the chopper is that we get to hear what that cop is thinking. Especially right before shots were fired, the chopper cop goes, well he's probably going to get tazed now and when he falls, says looks like they tazed him.... but instead, it was gunshots. Appears a bit damning and I'm sure questions are going to arise as to why a tazer wasn't used when it seemed obvious to the chopper cop that based on the situation the tazer was the way to go.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The interesting thing about the audio from the chopper is that we get to hear what that cop is thinking. Especially right before shots were fired, the chopper cop goes, well he's probably going to get tazed now and when he falls, says looks like they tazed him.... but instead, it was gunshots. Appears a bit damning and I'm sure questions are going to arise as to why a tazer wasn't used when it seemed obvious to the chopper cop that based on the situation the tazer was the way to go.

Has it been established why a chopper was there in the first place?

[molson]

He was shot AND tazed. It's possible the shooter reacted to the sound of the tazer due to some combination of panic/inexperience/failure of the other officer to announce that he was using the tazer. That seems to be the consensus speculation of officers who have seen the video.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

So a terrorist who set off bombs in New York/New Jersey has the ability to shoot at cops and is still taken alive after a gun fight...

A black guy walks back to a car with his hands up and is dead with one shot for having a stalled car in the road?

Just think about that for a second. No left or right agenda bullshit, those are the facts. That crap I watched from Tulsa is a snuff video. If it was a captured American instead of a black guy and someone from ISIS had the gun instead of cops everyone would be screaming for war against ISIS for taking out an innocent man. 'Murica.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That's a really good point.

Nah, it's sheer dumb luck which one survived. No way the guy in Tulsa should have been shot with a gun instead of just tazed or taken down a different way, but once both were hit with gunshots the fact that the guy in Jersey was the one who survived was simply luck.

Originally Posted by Drake

Someone needs to tell the cops in the US that no one uses PCP anymore. That was the '70s. If you want to make up shit about someone being drug intoxicated and therefore dangerous, move on to meth or drugs people are actually using today.

They need to standardize a shorthand for Spice/K1/bath salts. Synthetic marijuana is a terrible misnomer that I hope doesn't catch on, but there definitely needs to be a catch all category. And even as someone who generally hates the "war on drugs" changing the way that whole class of formulas are regulated wouldn't be a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

The deceased man's family is claiming that he is disabled and was holding a book, not a gun, and that is the narrative that has spread among the black community in Charlotte. If they're lying, I hope there's a way to hold them accountable for the rioting. And of course, if they're telling the truth, there should be hell to pay for the officer(s) involved.

The two stories are so far apart that in glancing over social media last night (didn't have time to read anything in depth), I thought there had been three different deaths of black men by police--one in Tulsa, one in Charlotte where the guy got out of the car with a gun, and one in some other location where a disabled man was sitting in the car, reading a book, waiting to pick up his kid from school. I didn't realize until this morning that the last two were the same incident.

Yep. And the police in Charlotte were quick to charge a officer with manslaughter a couple years ago, so the adamancy they're saying he had a gun (and that they recovered a gun, and found zero books), makes me think this is similar to the Milwaukee case where the family was inciting violence, because I have a hard time believing the police planned to and were able to plant a gun in broad daylight with that many witnesses around.

But this isn't a case where there are two interpretations. One side is blatantly lying.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

True, was just pointing out that there probably won't be body cam footage with him being off duty. When I hear the book story last night my first thought was, that's the best story they could come up with?

I'm also confused by the economic protest that was called for also. So is it just white owned businesses or just white clerks or just any business? Wouldn't this just hurt your own community by not spending money so people have jobs?

I'm moving to Charlotte in a couple months, so I might not be 100% on the details, but with their light rail project Charlotte's really been gentrifying & revitalizing neighborhoods around the urban core like Uptown, South End, NoDa that I *think* were traditionally black, which has pushed a lot of poor people out to University City which is 30 min from downtown and on the fringes (and has cheap housing due to UNC-Charlotte being nearby, thus the neighborhood name). I don't think there's been anything overtly racist in what Charlotte's doing, (though I don't really know and might not pick up on it anyways) but I do assume like most places gentrifying in that manner there is a feeling among the underclass that they're being left behind by the progress happening around them, so I assume there's some lingering anger due to that that's being tapped into. Also keep in mind that the economic boycott call is coming from a Nation of Islam spokesman, not from any pastors who I assume wield more influence there on the whole... though possibly not with the angry youth minority who make up the bulk of violent looters in any of these situations.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

They need to standardize a shorthand for Spice/K1/bath salts. Synthetic marijuana is a terrible misnomer that I hope doesn't catch on, but there definitely needs to be a catch all category. And even as someone who generally hates the "war on drugs" changing the way that whole class of formulas are regulated wouldn't be a bad thing.

People involved in drug treatment do have standardized shorthand...and PCP is not one of them. PCP is a specific hallucinogen. PCP pushes the "scary drug person" button for (white, suburban) people who don't know anything about drugs except a little marijuana at Aunt Francis's 80th birthday party and drug-crazed gang bangers on the nightly news.

This was standard fodder in the late-70s and early-80's.

Picking out PCP as a suspected intoxicant for justifying a shooting stands out as a gross attempt at manipulating the narrative. The fact that they then supposedly happened to find PCP in the SUV afterwards -- to corroborate the officer's gut-level impression, of course -- seems a bit of a stretch.

For the record, as a guy who worked night shift, often by myself, completely unarmed, and regularly had folks showing up intoxicated and belligerent on one substance or another, I was extensively trained in recognizing intoxication symptoms of various drug classes -- so I could provide appropriate medical help with detoxification, if it was needed -- and can't say I ever got any specific training in what PCP-intoxication would look like (versus, say, LSD intoxication, or Spice intoxication, or generic benzodiazapine intoxication).

But I also never had to worry about making excuses for why I shot somebody.

My point is that being overly specific here is either an attempt to create a justifiable homicide narrative or its indicative of somebody with a hammer who's looking for a nail. In either case, it's pretty poor professionalism.

[illinifan999]

Charlotte Police Shootings: Charlotte deadly police shooting of Keith Scott leads to violent protests in University City | WSOC-TV

"4 p.m.: Channel 9 has confirmed with sources that there is dash camera video that shows Keith Scott getting out a car and coming toward officers with a gun in his hands. "

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

The deceased man's family is claiming that he is disabled and was holding a book, not a gun, and that is the narrative that has spread among the black community in Charlotte. If they're lying, I hope there's a way to hold them accountable for the rioting. And of course, if they're telling the truth, there should be hell to pay for the officer(s) involved.

Agreed. Completely. I'm not certain that there shouldn't be hell to pay for the officers even if the man had a gun. But I dont want to derail the thread.

My earlier point though was about the bigger picture. If the family's story is 100% accurate (though that is beginning to look very doubtful) I am fine and even supportive of protesting. Marching. Hell occupy and shut down the interstate and I will completely understand calling attention to your cause. But destroying and stealing from un-involved 3rd parties. makes no sense to me. I heard the analogy today, and I think it fits, its like coming home to find your wife and best friend in bed together and as retaliation going and burning down your neighbor's house.

I think community leaders need to be real honest here. A) An injustice may ell have been done. B) Some folks re just using it as a convenient excuse to steal shit.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm moving to Charlotte in a couple months, so I might not be 100% on the details, but with their light rail project Charlotte's really been gentrifying & revitalizing neighborhoods around the urban core like Uptown, South End, NoDa that I *think* were traditionally black, which has pushed a lot of poor people out to University City which is 30 min from downtown and on the fringes (and has cheap housing due to UNC-Charlotte being nearby, thus the neighborhood name). I don't think there's been anything overtly racist in what Charlotte's doing, (though I don't really know and might not pick up on it anyways) but I do assume like most places gentrifying in that manner there is a feeling among the underclass that they're being left behind by the progress happening around them, so I assume there's some lingering anger due to that that's being tapped into. Also keep in mind that the economic boycott call is coming from a Nation of Islam spokesman, not from any pastors who I assume wield more influence there on the whole... though possibly not with the angry youth minority who make up the bulk of violent looters in any of these situations.

Ehhh. Sorta.
Light rail is basically an unmitigated disaster
.
NoDa is definitely a gentrified sucsess story.
South End has never rally been "bad" never a ghetto. But there are antique shops and trendy micro breweries today where strip clubs were 15 years ago (sometimes in the same building).

Charlotte is a cite built around two the intersection of I77 and I85. hey cross almost perfectly perpendicular to each other and essentially due north of city center. It makes a decent quadrant. The two primary "ghettos" radiate directly out of downtown essentially due northwest (forming the 28208 and 28216 zips where housing prices are heavily depressed-this also includes a sliver of 28214) and due northeast Forming the 28206 and the bottom half of 28269 and 28262. The University area is the upper half of 28269 and 10 years ago was the hot happening place to be as Concord popped and lots moved there to chase shorter commutes. Today the 485 belt loop and the incessant growth has really caused growth to be everywhere.

Druid Hills, Lincoln Heights, Washington Heights are essentially the areas in focus here. And they are mostly impoverished with a few small pockets classic 70s survival neighborhoods.

University Area has historically been Hwy 49 North of Hwy 29..but its a loose and lazy description lacking the hard boundaries of the earlir planned communities.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Charlotte Police Shootings: Charlotte deadly police shooting of Keith Scott leads to violent protests in University City | WSOC-TV

"4 p.m.: Channel 9 has confirmed with sources that there is dash camera video that shows Keith Scott getting out a car and coming toward officers with a gun in his hands. "

Okay everybody, let's do the right thing and return all that shit to Walmart.

[ISiddiqui]

I dunno if you would be derailing the thread with the question of the necessity of deadly force if the guy had a gun, CU Tiger. My first thought was isn't NC an open carry state?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I dunno if you would be derailing the thread with the question of the necessity of deadly force if the guy had a gun, CU Tiger. My first thought was isn't NC an open carry state?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Open and Concealed Gun Carry Laws in North Carolina | Criminal Law

Sounds weirdly like open carrying would be legal, but having the gun in the car (if he went back into the car then re-emerged?), could be construed as concealed and thus illegal?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I dunno if you would be derailing the thread with the question of the necessity of deadly force if the guy had a gun, CU Tiger. My first thought was isn't NC an open carry state?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

NC is an open carry state and DOES NOT have a brandishing law. Meaning by definition he had a right to have the gun in his hand so long as he didn't point it or verbally or physically threaten harm to others. (Had he done those he would have gone "armed to the terror of the public". A NC gun law)

Police have already disclosed they stopped the wrong guy.

So even if he had a gun, from what we know so far I still think it's an unjustified homicide.

I would hope the NRA would converge in Charlotte to support his 2A rights. I'm a lifetime NRA member.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I would hope the NRA would converge in Charlotte to support his 2A rights. I'm a lifetime NRA member.

Yeah that's not going to happen and you know why.

[Dutch]

Ooooh, the looting is beginning on TV. Let me get my popcorn.

[Dutch]

Oh damn, CNN dude just got shoved to the grown by a BLM gangstar. It's getting ugly.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Oh damn, CNN dude just got shoved to the grown by a BLM gangstar. It's getting ugly.

1 person dead in civilian on civilian violence

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

1 person dead in civilian on civilian violence

Or, according to social media, and the lead result in that box on Google for "Charlotte", shot in the head by police.

IMG_20160921_224607.jpg

I'm usually all for free speech, but at what point does deliberately spreading misinformation that will incite violence akin to yelling fire in a crowded theatre? (And I'm pretty anti-riot police, but do people really believe they'd shoot someone in the head with live ammo at a demonstration like this like it's Kent State? That's where the divisive rhetoric has gone too far, and is just as bad as Trump creating his own reality out of thin air. But the older I get the more I realize it's more about narratives & what people believe than actual facts.)

[NobodyHere]

He's not dead yet! The victim has been upgraded to critical condition.



Ok sorry, I know this is serious but I can't help myself

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

But the older I get the more I realize it's more about narratives & what people believe than actual facts.)

Being open-minded and being truly able to understand the perspective of the people and groups that you're just not inclined towards, who don't share your values, or have values you just don't get, is one of the hardest things to do for some reason. I suck at it in most contexts, but I'm better at than I was 5 years ago. But it's like the more passionate you are about something, even in a good way, that just makes you less open-minded about the things that are just kind of naturally in opposition to those things you're passionate about.

I have a facebook friend that is 90% political activism, a lot of it about police stuff, and obviously that can get old - though he always stays away from generalizing and being anti-anyone just because of the group they're in. Still, I can't help but be annoyed by him, but today he had a new interesting take. He talked about how white people are welcome in BLM, and in fact racists are too, because he's a racist, and he knows he's welcome. It was so refreshing to hear that kind self-awareness about human flaws. Honestly, you don't hear that much from big-time internet social activists. Which always makes them come off so arrogant and disingenuous to me. Like they're in a position to morally judge everyone, but they aren't actually in the nitty gritty of trying to make a real difference in the real world, as dirty as that can be, and how easily that can expose your own flaws.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

OK, I've seen the whole video now. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I see him do everything they said he did. He clearly puts his hands down right before they shoot him, from where they're standing they have no fucking idea if that window is up or down. Quite frankly I think he's lucky he didn't get shot walking back to his car, hands up or not. I can't believe for one second that the cop is telling him "Put your hands up and walk 100 back to your car." When the video starts he's practically standing right in front of the cop car.

Again, It sucks he's dead, but he does everything wrong, and the minute I see his hands move in front of that window, all bets are off.

From reading about the situation it seems like he might have been high on PCP. I wonder how that played into the situation. People on that stuff can act in a bizarre fashion and even fight through a taser. Is there a chance they deployed the taser and it had no impact on him and then she shot him? I can't tell from the video.

Either way it seems like she panicked. The fact she only fired one shot makes me think that even more. I'm fairly certain you're supposed to fire off more than one shot if your life is in danger in that situation.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

One last question for those in the know because I don't and haven't heard a good reason.

Why the hell do they send a copter and 4 police cars for a stalled vehicle?

Hopefully we get an answer to this at some point. Only thing I can think of is when they ran the plate it came up about his past. He had a criminal record with multiple violent actions against police. I'd imagine that's a cue to call for backup.

[Ben E Lou]

As of this moment this video has been viewed over 500,000 times and has been shared over 23,000 times. People who are already predisposed to not trusting the police are seeing this. This is the kind of stuff feeding what's going on.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So, a couple days later and we now know:

-the guy in Charlotte charged the police with a gun

-the other guy in Oklahoma had PCP in the car and all four windows and the sunroof were in fact open when he dropped his right hand toward the window just before being tazed/shot

Any chance these people could wait 48 hours before doing stupid shit and removing all credibility for their movement? Because there are actually some occasional situations where protests are warranted, but no one is paying attention because the stupid stuff is overriding their message.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

-the other guy in Oklahoma had PCP in the car and all four windows and the sunroof were in fact open when he dropped his right hand toward the window just before being tazed/shot

I know they say it was simultaneous but is it possible that the male officer fired the taser first (lets say by a second or two) which cause his right arm to drop (I assume you tazer me on the side my arm drops) and she reacted to the arm being dropped by firing her gun? I could see a scenario when your adrenaline is rushed that you would say they both happened at the same time if I was a cop.

I just don't know how every knows they both happened at the same time from the video. Do tazers emit a light when fired or something like that?