2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[Galaril]

v

Originally Posted by Edward64

Didn't get to watch it but saw snippets and he looked good in those.

See any cognitive slip ups?

He looked great overall. I want that guy in charge instead of some 35 year old who is learning on the fucking job.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I'm not going to lie, he looks old AF.

But I don't care. We need to be saved.

Yes he does. I think its primarily his white hair. Maybe grey his hair some, and use the 90's thing that fizzed/covered up the sparseness.

He face does look pretty smooth. I have wondered if he's had cosmetic surgery/botox here and there.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Galaril

He looked great overall. I want that guy in charge instead of some 35 year old who is learning on the fucking job.

I'm with you. Let's get a young VP for 4 years of seasoning .

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm with you. Let's get a young VP for 4 years of seasoning .

Yes agree.

[Edward64]

Drove daughter and friend to do early GA voting. First time they could vote.

Filled out a form, got it checked at another table, got my "card", stuck it into machine, selected Biden (all of Dems were listed), printed out ballot, scanned the ballot in another machine, got my "I voted" stickie, and was done.

In and out in under 15 min. Maybe another 5 people voting.

Good experience for the kids.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Drove daughter and friend to do early GA voting. First time they could vote.

Filled out a form, got it checked at another table, got my "card", stuck it into machine, selected Biden (all of Dems were listed), printed out ballot, scanned the ballot in another machine, got my "I voted" stickie, and was done.

In and out in under 15 min. Maybe another 5 people voting.

Good experience for the kids.

Good man.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm with you. Let's get a young VP for 4 years of seasoning .

After seasoning your young VP for 4 years preheat your oven to 375 degrees. Now in a large pan toss your vegetables with olive oil and gently place your VP on top. Covering the VP with aluminum foil will help contain moisture. Bake for 1 1/2 hours or until VP meat is fork tender.

Bon appetit!

[molson]

I'd like the move of announcing he'll only seek 1 term and then building up the popularity of a VP/presumptive 2024 nominee.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

After seasoning your young VP for 4 years preheat your oven to 375 degrees. Now in a large pan toss your vegetables with olive oil and gently place your VP on top. Covering the VP with aluminum foil will help contain moisture. Bake for 1 1/2 hours or until VP meat is fork tender.

Bon appetit!

This is both funny and creepy LOL

[BYU 14]

So there is now a never Biden movement popping up on social media. So you hate the man in office, but are willing to concede another 4 years to him because your favorite grandpa probably isn't going to get the nomination and Biden is too centrist, which only aligns with more of the country than either extreme.

Makes total fucking sense.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

So there is now a never Biden movement popping up on social media. So you hate the man in office, but are willing to concede another 4 years to him because your favorite grandpa probably isn't going to get the nomination and Biden is too centrist, which only aligns with more of the country than either extreme.

Makes total fucking sense.

I'm guessing the Russians have a hand in this movement.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm guessing the Russians have a hand in this movement.

IMO, the Russians have a hand in every single aspect of our political social media.

Everyone thinks that they are too savvy to fall for propaganda, so on one takes it seriously enough.

[bob]

Originally Posted by molson

I'd like the move of announcing he'll only seek 1 term and then building up the popularity of a VP/presumptive 2024 nominee.

Doesn't that make you a lame duck very quickly?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

So there is now a never Biden movement popping up on social media. So you hate the man in office, but are willing to concede another 4 years to him because your favorite grandpa probably isn't going to get the nomination and Biden is too centrist, which only aligns with more of the country than either extreme.

Makes total fucking sense.

I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that Biden would be preferable to Trump for the next 4 years. That said, I do think that since the nature of American politics is so cyclical and pendulous that another 4 years of Trump would likely result in an even more progressive group of DEM candidates 4 more years from now, whereas a Biden presidency potentially gets you 4-8 years of Biden-flavored moderacy, very likely followed by 4-8 years of a Republican President, before another progressive candidate has a realistic chance of election.

I personally wouldn't let that deter me from voting Trump out of office, but just to say I think that looking at "Never-Biden" from the long-game perspective doesn't sound entirely ridiculous.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This is both funny and creepy LOL

A Jeffrey Dahmer recipe.

[spleen1015]

One problem at a time. Get rid of Trump then let's see how it goes with Joe.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that Biden would be preferable to Trump for the next 4 years. That said, I do think that since the nature of American politics is so cyclical and pendulous that another 4 years of Trump would likely result in an even more progressive group of DEM candidates 4 more years from now, whereas a Biden presidency potentially gets you 4-8 years of Biden-flavored moderacy, very likely followed by 4-8 years of a Republican President, before another progressive candidate has a realistic chance of election.

I personally wouldn't let that deter me from voting Trump out of office, but just to say I think that looking at "Never-Biden" from the long-game perspective doesn't sound entirely ridiculous.

Until you realize how 4 more years of Trump, validated by a re-election, could be completely disastrous.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that Biden would be preferable to Trump for the next 4 years. That said, I do think that since the nature of American politics is so cyclical and pendulous that another 4 years of Trump would likely result in an even more progressive group of DEM candidates 4 more years from now, whereas a Biden presidency potentially gets you 4-8 years of Biden-flavored moderacy, very likely followed by 4-8 years of a Republican President, before another progressive candidate has a realistic chance of election.

I personally wouldn't let that deter me from voting Trump out of office, but just to say I think that looking at "Never-Biden" from the long-game perspective doesn't sound entirely ridiculous.

I think that is the exact line of thinking, four more years of Trump will help the more progressive element for sure. I just don't think 4 more years of his buffoonery is the best path. Especially if Biden picks a younger more progressive VP and sticks to a single term to set the table for that person to run in 2024.

[GrantDawg]

Biden is running on a platform further to the left than Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. It is idiocy to think 4 more years of Trump will suddenly make the country more progressive. He will have selected 1-3 more Supreme Court justices and the vast majority of the federal bench by then. Voter rights will be a thing of the past, and we will be lucky if a third of the minority voters today will be able to vote in 4 years. Abortion rights? Gone. ACA? Gone.

The level of idiocy of the far left is dead on par with the far right.

[thesloppy]

Just to be clear, I totally agree that we need to get Trump out of office immediately. His effect on the judiciary will be long felt, and we are currently right in the middle a monumental example of "how bad could it really be?" when it comes to poor leadership in the White House.

That said, there is still a part of me that is happy to play devil's advocate (just because I'm a turd like that), my personal critical issues have always been prison reform, reduced military presence/action & healthcare, and it could be argued that Trump practically has a better record than Biden on the sum of those issues. Crucially, I don't believe for a second that Trump's INTENTIONS on those issues match my own in any way, but mostly all of this is just to say that Joe's hypothetical policies and intentions might mean even less to me than Trump's, since Biden has a long established record of saying the right thing and then making the wrong decision (according to my political compass, YMMV).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He will have selected 1-3 more Supreme Court justices and the vast majority of the federal bench by then.

Right. Regardless of the things that may happen in terms of getting someone like Warren elected President in 4 years after more Trump, that's far less than having a 7-2 split in the Supreme Court where the most moderate of that 7 is Justice Roberts or Kavanaugh.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Just to be clear, I totally agree that we need to get Trump out of office immediately. His effect on the judiciary will be long felt, and we are currently right in the middle a monumental example of "how bad could it really be?" when it comes to poor leadership in the White House.

That said, there is still a part of me that is happy to play devil's advocate (just because I'm a turd like that), my personal critical issues have always been prison reform, reduced military presence/action & healthcare, and it could be argued that Trump practically has a better record than Biden on the sum of those issues. Crucially, I don't believe for a second that Trump's INTENTIONS on those issues match my own in any way, but mostly all of this is just to say that Joe's hypothetical policies and intentions might mean even less to me than Trump's, since Biden has a long established record of saying the right thing and then making the wrong decision (according to my political compass, YMMV).

His prison reform plan is a great example of how Trump is both easily influenced and quick to bail on/bury an agenda that doesn't keep his supporters kissing his ring. The prison reform is mostly a Kushner/Ivanka contribution, and let's face it, Trump could give a shit about minorities in prison. I think is team saw this as a chance to make inroads with minority voters and quash the racist rhetoric surrounding his presidency. But when the needle didn't really move and knowing that with much of his base it was not something they cared about, he has kind of quietly moved on after the first phase.

I really did like much of what he was proposing in the reform too, I just can't be sure there was much sincerity behind it.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I really did like much of what he was proposing in the reform too, I just can't be sure there was much sincerity behind it.

Trump is deranged for sure, but he actually is closer to Bernie Sanders on several issues than he is to congressional Republicans. Prison reform, tariffs, anti-NAFTA, no “nation building”, massive national infrastructure initiative, to name a few. It’s a shame he’s created such a toxic atmosphere, otherwise we probably would have passed a big infrastructure bill with overwhelming Democratic support.

There are probably more than a few Republican congressmen who wouldn’t mind if Biden won the election, but of course they won’t admit it.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

His prison reform plan is a great example of how Trump is both easily influenced and quick to bail on/bury an agenda that doesn't keep his supporters kissing his ring. The prison reform is mostly a Kushner/Ivanka contribution, and let's face it, Trump could give a shit about minorities in prison. I think is team saw this as a chance to make inroads with minority voters and quash the racist rhetoric surrounding his presidency. But when the needle didn't really move and knowing that with much of his base it was not something they cared about, he has kind of quietly moved on after the first phase.

I really did like much of what he was proposing in the reform too, I just can't be sure there was much sincerity behind it.

Totally. Likewise I think him & his base absurdly claiming to be the party of peace is all smoke and mirrors and based on some kind of half-racist, miserly isolationism rather than any kind of moral values. On one hand it seems truly significant if he can get the party & his 40%+ base are suddenly dedicated to pulling out of Afghanistan & the middle east seemingly overnight, but it's also obviously the most hollow of promises still based on the actual opposite of my own politics.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Trump is deranged for sure, but he actually is closer to Bernie Sanders on several issues than he is to congressional Republicans. Prison reform, tariffs, anti-NAFTA, no “nation building”, massive national infrastructure initiative, to name a few. It’s a shame he’s created such a toxic atmosphere, otherwise we probably would have passed a big infrastructure bill with overwhelming Democratic support.

There are probably more than a few Republican congressmen who wouldn’t mind if Biden won the election, but of course they won’t admit it.

Yeah, I have often joked that if Trump could somehow stumble into universal healthcare he practically would've accomplished the Green Party's entire policy.

[Vegas Vic]

Biden has improved to +110 in the Presidential betting markets. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, assuming the country returns to some sense of normalcy by late summer/early fall.

Will Sanders' supporters come out in big numbers and vote for Biden? Will there be any animosity due to the party elders all rallying behind Biden on Super Tuesday? Are there enough anti-Trump independents who could tip the scales? Or will many who are already disillusioned with the process see this election as a pompous, reckless megalomaniac against a bumbling, senile old man who doesn't know what state he's in?

[Edward64]

Yeah, it never made sense to me why student debt was different from the others for bankruptcy. This may mean some students will have a harder time getting a loan but overall net positive.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/polit...lan/index.html

Former Vice President Joe Biden says he now backs Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren's bankruptcy plan, endorsing his former Democratic rival's proposal to repeal portions of a law they had clashed over 15 years earlier.

Biden touted his support for Warren's plan as an olive branch to supporters of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders in a virtual town hall for Illinois voters Friday night, calling it "one of the things that I think Bernie and I will agree on."
He highlighted a portion of Warren's plan that would allow student loan debt to be eliminated in bankruptcy just like other debts.

"I'm going to endorse -- I've endorsed -- Elizabeth Warren's bankruptcy proposal, which in fact goes further, allows for student debt to be relieved in bankruptcy, provides for a whole range of other issues that allows us to in fact impact on how people are dealing with their circumstances," Biden said. "So there's a whole range of things we agree on."

Biden's move to back Warren's plan shows that, as he moves toward clinching the Democratic presidential nomination and seeks to soothe over tensions from a year-long intra-party battle, the former vice president is taking steps to embrace his former rivals and adopt planks of their platforms -- and is willing to move left to do so.
:
:
The law, which was heavily backed by the banking and credit card industries, made it harder for Americans to get out of debt by filing for bankruptcy. Supporters of the measure said it would prevent financially irresponsible people from abusing the system, while opponents denounced it, saying it would hurt struggling people by increasing the regulation, documentation and costs of seeking bankruptcy protection. Bankruptcies plummeted after the law took effect, but not for the right reasons, consumer advocates argued.

[Vegas Vic]

I'm watching the debate right now, and so far my main takeaway is that I should go to joebiden.com and berniesanders.com.

[Lathum]

Biden committing to a female VP. I would assume Abrams but possibly Klobuchar?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Biden committing to a female VP. I would assume Abrams but possibly Klobuchar?

I'm pretty sure he's going to pick Kamala Harris.

[tarcone]

What about Tulsi? She would grab the GOP anti-trumpers.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I'm pretty sure he's going to pick Kamala Harris.

With the way Kamala attacked Biden I'm not so sure about this.

And now lil Kamala cries.

[GrantDawg]

I think he already has an agreement with Abrams.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I'm pretty sure he's going to pick Kamala Harris.

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

With the way Kamala attacked Biden I'm not so sure about this.

And now lil Kamala cries.

He also doesn't need California and she carries a lot of anti criminal justice baggage.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by tarcone

What about Tulsi? She would grab the GOP anti-trumpers.

You are fucking kidding?! I am not sure if she is a paid Republican mole or Russian. All of her primary support is Trump ball licking R’s voting for her. She will have a fine career on Fox. Picking her would drive all the progressive left away. Biden needs to pick a left leaning woman maybe Warren or perhaps Harris though she is not all that left leaning.

[Edward64]

Joined 10 min ago. I like the split screen where you can see the reactions, Biden looks pretty calm and has spoken well for the bit I've seen.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Is it just me, or should Bernie Sanders stop reminding people that Biden is kicking his ass right now?

Felt like Biden really flubbed the "what did you learn from the Iraq War mistake" question, but Sanders failed to capitalize on the slip-up.

[tarcone]

Isnt the corona virus supposed to kill off these guys so we can have a person who represents the rest of us?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Isnt the corona virus supposed to kill off these guys so we can have a person who represents the rest of us?

They said that Trump didn't have it.

[tarcone]

Damn Boomers will not go away will they?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

They said that Trump didn't have it.

[ISiddiqui]

Sanders don't get the knock out blow he needed. Seems like people who liked Sanders are going to say Sanders won and people who liked Biden are going to say Biden won - and both have a point.

The best thing though is the lack of an audience. Actually made it a better debate.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He also doesn't need California and she carries a lot of anti criminal justice baggage.

The baggage is a legitimate issue, but picking someone to help carry a state is more of a 20th century practice. GWB didn't need Wyoming, and he picked Cheney. Gore didn't need Connecticut, and he picked Lieberman. Obama didn't need Delaware, and he picked Biden. McCain didn't need Alaska, and he picked Palin. Trump didn't need Indiana, and he picked Pence.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Biden committing to a female VP. I would assume Abrams but possibly Klobuchar?

Can't be Warren (I hope) and Abrams hasn't been on the big stage.

I'm okay with either Harris or Klobuchar.

[bob]

I don't understand the love for Abrams. What has she done other than lose an election. I get that it was closer than typical for Georgia, but what in her experience says she is ready to be president if something happened to Biden, which would be a realistic concern given his age.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by bob

I don't understand the love for Abrams. What has she done other than lose an election. I get that it was closer than typical for Georgia, but what in her experience says she is ready to be president if something happened to Biden, which would be a realistic concern given his age.

Yeah, I'm with you. I don't get it either.

[Edward64]

I did watch the late night replay of the debate. No big mistakes that I saw on either side. Joe being Joe with out a gaffe and Sander's being the gadfly, that-again?-come-up-with-something-else-to-say.

The primaries voting turnout are yet to be figured out but think coronavirus has worked to Biden's favor so far.

• Biden was stating "this is what I'm going to do now whereas Sander's was talking broader revolution that was going to happen possibly years in future and couldn't or wouldn't pivot to talking about now.
• Biden was promising too much (said something to effect everyone will be made whole from the coronavirus).
• Sanders attacked Biden on Financial bailout and he had a good response to the effect if the bailout didn't happen, the Sander's voters would be much worse off
• There was debate on Biden's voting record on SSN. Read the fact check afterwards and basically Sander's accusations are out of context.
• Biden's VP promise stole much of the news (which is what I'm sure he wanted)
• Biden's jab on Italy's healthcare in counter Sanders was great. I wish he pursued that just a little bit more

Bottom-line: I'd give it a win to Biden. He was able to talk about something new vs Bernie's old tiresome re-treads, he looked more calm and composed than Bernie's weird mouth movements and itchy hands, and he didn't flub any major lines.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, I'm with you. I don't get it either.

I think that it is the same thing that got Beto or Buttigieg their 15 minutes in the spotlight. People are attracted to the next big thing, at least initially.

Young candidates are blank slates on which you can fill in the blanks to make them perfect for you.

It is the same reason that "Generic Republican" or "Generic Democrat" always polls better than specific individuals.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that Biden would be preferable to Trump for the next 4 years. That said, I do think that since the nature of American politics is so cyclical and pendulous that another 4 years of Trump would likely result in an even more progressive group of DEM candidates 4 more years from now, whereas a Biden presidency potentially gets you 4-8 years of Biden-flavored moderacy, very likely followed by 4-8 years of a Republican President, before another progressive candidate has a realistic chance of election.

I personally wouldn't let that deter me from voting Trump out of office, but just to say I think that looking at "Never-Biden" from the long-game perspective doesn't sound entirely ridiculous.

Huh? This is the exact same argument many Never-Clintons made, that 4 years of Trump would bring us a more progressive nominee. And now we will have Biden. And of course, even if we get that progressive nominee after 8 years of Trump, we'll be looking at a 7-2 SCOTUS deficit, which will block almost anything the progressive tries to get done.

[stevew]

AOC is old enough in 2024