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Old 04-18-2006, 12:45 PM   #501
Barkeep49
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Cronin you have an explanation for that vote?
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Old 04-18-2006, 12:52 PM   #502
st.cronin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkeep49
Cronin you have an explanation for that vote?

No - I'm really puzzled by this game, more so than any other. I think there's at least one person out there with proof of something, and if so I think it's almost time for them to come forward. There is probably only one Thing left, so we need to bust out our endgame strategy. If the Thing that's left is a convert, it could be anybody (including Barkeep49, even if we believe him about Qwik, which I 70% do), but probably somebody who DIDN'T vote for saldana.
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Old 04-18-2006, 12:58 PM   #503
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Would still rather see someone than Barkeep tested because I don't believe he's a thing, therefore:

Unvote Dubb
Vote Raiders Army
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:02 PM   #504
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hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.

UNVOTE BARKEEP49
VOTE DUBB93


Remember, I'm the one who voted for saldana both days. I would think that would prove that I'm human. I'm good with getting tested though.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:07 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by st.cronin
Vote Raider's Army

UNVOTE RAIDER'S ARMY
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:08 PM   #506
st.cronin
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I had him voting for BK ... lemme think about this.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:08 PM   #507
mckerney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders Army
hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.

UNVOTE BARKEEP49
VOTE DUBB93


Remember, I'm the one who voted for saldana both days. I would think that would prove that I'm human. I'm good with getting tested though.

in that case

Unvote Raiders Army
Vote dubb
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:09 PM   #508
st.cronin
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ok

VOTE DUBB

I think the convert (if there is one) is either him, Jeeber, or Blade.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:10 PM   #509
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Updated votes as of Post #506:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), mckerney (503)
WVU - Coffee (473)
Barkeep - JeeberD (484)
Jeeber - path (486)
Dubb - Raiders (504)

No vote - Swaggs, WVU, Tanglewood, Barkeep, Cronin, Hoopsguy
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:11 PM   #510
mckerney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st.cronin
ok

VOTE DUBB

I think the convert (if there is one) is either him, Jeeber, or Blade.

I agree with this, except I don't think it's Jeeber or Blade.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:13 PM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders Army
hmmmm...I did a little excel chart for final voting and one thing pops out at me. dubb voted for saldana on Day 1 but didn't go for him on Day 2. He's continuing his voting on hoops on day 3, so I gotta say that looks pretty strange to me.


Not the smoking gun you think it is. Saldana was so obviously a thing after the PMs came out and how he handled the situation that I felt it best to throw my vote on someone that could actually win the game for them. If Hoops was/is a thing, which I feel is likely it would be gameover b/c you guys are all giving him a verbal bj so far this game. Its almost like both barkeep and hoops are god and everything they say is truth. I call BS on them, one of them ATLEAST isn't on the up and up. I think it's Hoops.

Test me, show your stupidity.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:14 PM   #512
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I know that WVUfan was on earlier this morning - he posted in another thread - but he still has yet to post in here. Given that I think that we have killed two original Things, we are either after a 3rd starter Thing or a convert. WVUfan potentially could fit either profile (unlike some of the guesses for convert) so that coupled with his silence over the last two days equals

VOTE WVUFAN
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:14 PM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckerney
I agree with this, except I don't think it's Jeeber or Blade.

worst call in werewolf history. , have fun being wrong.
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Originally Posted by McSweeny
Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:20 PM   #514
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Dubb, Saldana was a 5-4 vote so it wasn't THAT obvious to the collective group. Given that there were three no votes we were very, very close to not getting him yesterday (tie = no test). If you were so sure he was a Thing, given the closeness of the race your vote probably would have helped give a little bit of breathing room. This sounds like a little bit of revisionist theory on your part.
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:29 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsguy
Dubb, Saldana was a 5-4 vote so it wasn't THAT obvious to the collective group. Given that there were three no votes we were very, very close to not getting him yesterday (tie = no test). If you were so sure he was a Thing, given the closeness of the race your vote probably would have helped give a little bit of breathing room. This sounds like a little bit of revisionist theory on your part.

Actually I made my call to vote you early and figured everyone would see Saldana. Most of they day I wasn't checking in the werewolf thread so I didn't know what the vote count was until late in the day after the deadline.

Call it revisionist, call it what you want, but I tend to think the group as a whole is smart enough to pick up on post 185 where he made himself sound like a complete idiot.

Would I have changed my vote if I came back and saw it was close? Yes, but when I did come back I didn't take the time to dig through posts, and to be honest I'm playing this game very much on the fly which is not how I normally play so forgive me if I'm making bad judgement calls.

With all that said, I probably won't defend myself anymore today b/c if the group wants me tested I'm more than happy to be tested, it just won't get us anywhere. I think the best way would be to test either Barkeep or Hoops. One has no evidence to back up his claims and the other has cleared himself by using a certain term out of context.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:12 PM   #516
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Damn you raiders, i had cronin and mckerney with me for like 5 minutes and now they abandon me...if dubb isnt bad, damn you
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:14 PM   #517
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I am going to place my vote now, to see if it gains any momentum or reaction. If things look close, I will switch to unbreak a tie.

Vote JeeberD
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:22 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by dubb93
Not the smoking gun you think it is. Saldana was so obviously a thing after the PMs came out and how he handled the situation that I felt it best to throw my vote on someone that could actually win the game for them. If Hoops was/is a thing, which I feel is likely it would be gameover b/c you guys are all giving him a verbal bj so far this game. Its almost like both barkeep and hoops are god and everything they say is truth. I call BS on them, one of them ATLEAST isn't on the up and up. I think it's Hoops.

Test me, show your stupidity.
I definitely don't believe it's a smoking gun. The way you're defending yourself is much like how saldana defended himself. I'm leaving my vote on you.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:24 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
Damn you raiders, i had cronin and mckerney with me for like 5 minutes and now they abandon me...if dubb isnt bad, damn you
Well if he isn't bad, 1 out of 2 isn't bad for my record (technically 2 out of 3 votes). The big plus to it is that we aren't killing someone every vote...if they're human.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:27 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by Raiders Army
Well if he isn't bad, 1 out of 2 isn't bad for my record (technically 2 out of 3 votes). The big plus to it is that we aren't killing someone every vote...if they're human.
No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:30 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)

Yep. This is like an all or nothing play for the Things. The tough part is that if we miss on this one, then we have NO trust list - the convert could be anybody.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:32 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
No, but if/when we miss today then they get another person added to their team. Its not just oh well, we missed. It must be viewed as either we kill a thing or they double in #s(assuming qwik was a thing, which i am still very uncertain of)
Hey, I'm just trying to look at the glass half-full. Besides, there are two things we don't know:

1. Can they convert every night?
2. If not, was someone converted night 1?

Those are two pretty big questions in my mind.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:35 PM   #523
st.cronin
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I have my vote on dubb; my second choice right now would be Barkeep. I'm not at all convinced he's not an original thing.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:38 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by Raiders Army
Hey, I'm just trying to look at the glass half-full. Besides, there are two things we don't know:

1. Can they convert every night?
2. If not, was someone converted night 1?

Those are two pretty big questions in my mind.
1.I dont know, but id imagine so with the ability to have two votes in a day like we have today. If they cant, we shouldnt have this power. The alternate scenario i see that others dont seem to see is that barkeep could be a thing, and they can alternate nights converting and killing. They killed night one, and he used it to try and clear himself(which seems to have worked). Not that i know anything on dubb, but im betting(in my mind with pretty good odds) he will come up clean. They let saldana die without too much of a fight. They can't afford to lose another today.

2.See above, or barkeep really is good and they did nothing night 1(we had a night 0 as well though, so they could have a seer too).
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:45 PM   #525
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With as many questions as people have with Barkeep I'm willing to punt on our 2nd test of the day and have him tested. I don't like it, but if we are going to have someone come up clean then it might as well be him.

That said, a miss here and we are then likely facing two Things the rest of the way and the game gets hard again. Voting patterns start to have less meaning, early-forming alliances have to be re-assessed, etc. I'm hoping that if we miss today that we are lucky with someone having a night role that stuffs the conversion . Potentially this could have happened on Night 1 as well, although with no one commenting on this and nothing in Schmidty's Night 1 recap post to indicate I doubt that we were running this lucky.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:49 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by hoopsguy
With as many questions as people have with Barkeep I'm willing to punt on our 2nd test of the day and have him tested. I don't like it, but if we are going to have someone come up clean then it might as well be him.

That said, a miss here and we are then likely facing two Things the rest of the way and the game gets hard again. Voting patterns start to have less meaning, early-forming alliances have to be re-assessed, etc. I'm hoping that if we miss today that we are lucky with someone having a night role that stuffs the conversion . Potentially this could have happened on Night 1 as well, although with no one commenting on this and nothing in Schmidty's Night 1 recap post to indicate I doubt that we were running this lucky.
No, i was for barkeep with the first vote, but on the chance hes being honest and we are left with 1 thing(maybe two, but that would be a scary thought) we need to strike. We have a chance, however remote, to end this game with this vote. Night 2-3 will tell me everything i need to know about barkeep. You worry me, but raiders far more. His attitude about the vote today only reinforces that(one you are starting to display). But make no mistake about it, this vote is critical for our chances of victory, and we can no longer use it for alterior methods
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:52 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
No, i was for barkeep with the first vote, but on the chance hes being honest and we are left with 1 thing(maybe two, but that would be a scary thought) we need to strike. We have a chance, however remote, to end this game with this vote. Night 2-3 will tell me everything i need to know about barkeep. You worry me, but raiders far more. His attitude about the vote today only reinforces that(one you are starting to display). But make no mistake about it, this vote is critical for our chances of victory, and we can no longer use it for alterior methods

I mostly agree with this reasoning, although I think a vote for saldana has to be a clear for anybody.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:52 PM   #528
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I think Raiders is an interesting target. We know saldana to be a Thing. So if Saldana is a thing and has a chance to convert somebody, who better then his arch enemy? The same could also hold in reverse on the assumption that if saldana was killed it would clear Raiders based on his early suspicion of saldana.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:53 PM   #529
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Dola -- I will agree though that with our chance to win, it's better to go for the win now then to test me as I think the evidence should be mroe and mroe in my favor.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:56 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by st.cronin
I mostly agree with this reasoning, although I think a vote for saldana has to be a clear for anybody.
Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:58 PM   #531
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I never considered saldana to be my archenemy or Lex Luthor. I considered him to be more like Bizzaro, the dude who could be my friend or not depending on his role that day.

Oh yeah, who's my Lois Lane?

Back to the game, it would be interesting to clear Barkeep which is why I voted for him initially; however, looking back at the votes and actions, I tend to believe that he's more good than dubb is bad. In other words, I feel more strongly that Barkeep is good than I feel dubb is bad. Thus the switch in votes.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:59 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.
The counter to that argument is that we wouldn't have known saldana was a Thing until further down the road. At that rate, it would've been suspicious, but not unreasonably so if someone changed their vote.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:00 PM   #533
st.cronin
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
Heres the problem i see with that. Review the time of the votes and how they fell into order in the saldana/barkeep duel. Most saldana votes(i thought when i looked) were before it was even close. If one had swapped late to barkeep to save saldana, he would have been target #1...just saying, if i was on saldana as a thing, i wouldnt have swapped.

That scenario only works IF the vote swap hadn't worked. If it had forced a tie and nobody got tested, or if had Barkeep had tested clean, then the Things maybe get another convert, saldana would still would have been one suspect among several, and then the move would have worked.

Which, incidentally, is another reason why Barkeep is a suspect in my mind.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:01 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by st.cronin
That scenario only works IF the vote swap hadn't worked. If it had forced a tie and nobody got tested, or if had Barkeep had tested clean, then the Things maybe get another convert, saldana would still would have been one suspect among several, and then the move would have worked.

Which, incidentally, is another reason why Barkeep is a suspect in my mind.
It was 5-4...1 vote swap from saldana to barkeep does not create a tie, it lynches barkeep 5-4. How does that not work?
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:03 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Raiders Army
The counter to that argument is that we wouldn't have known saldana was a Thing until further down the road. At that rate, it would've been suspicious, but not unreasonably so if someone changed their vote.
Any time someone does a swap from top to other top that is the decider they become a key target. Unless he swapped to a thing, that person is almost always a key target the next day
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:03 PM   #536
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I also happen to think that despite the fact that I would show up as clean a late minute switch would not have been as suspicious as in most other games due to the way I've played and the fact that I wouldn't die.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:03 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
It was 5-4...1 vote swap from saldana to barkeep does not create a tie, it lynches barkeep 5-4. How does that not work?

Well, it does work IF nobody else changes their vote. I'm just saying it's not as clearcut as you make it sound, particularly since (assuming barkeep is clean) it means they get another convert - meaning that if you swap your vote, you're trading 1 for 1.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:04 PM   #538
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Speaking of suspicious activity, your post count is not normal Blade.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:05 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by st.cronin
Well, it does work IF nobody else changes their vote. I'm just saying it's not as clearcut as you make it sound, particularly since (assuming barkeep is clean) it means they get another convert - meaning that if you swap your vote, you're trading 1 for 1.
You know of any players that would sacrifice themselves when their not on anyones radar so that his teamates can get another They better play would be to let it slide and hope one of the non-voters stepped up and did something
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:07 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by Blade6119
You know of any players that would sacrifice themselves when their not on anyones radar so that his teamates can get another They better play would be to let it slide and hope one of the non-voters stepped up and did something

I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:09 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by Raiders Army
Speaking of suspicious activity, your post count is not normal Blade.
Quite so, as i have said(there was a third i was looking for stating i wouldnt be as active, couldnt find it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
So anyone around tonight for a discussion? Hoops, BK? Dubb is usually on in like 2 hours...im bored, and i want to get back into my talkative groove...ive been wayyy to quiet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
Double Dola, this may be a black hole, a vortex, the end of the world as we know it. Schmidty is the top poster in a WW thread and im nowhere near the top. What is the world coming to Just joking, not attacking you schmidty!!!
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:10 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st.cronin
I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?
So is having a thing step out and swap a vote to save their guy...that a "pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?"
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:11 PM   #543
hoopsguy
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On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:13 PM   #544
Blade6119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsguy
On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.
IT WOULDNT HAVE CREATED A TIE...am i missing somewhere, becuase everyone seems to think this. A swap from saldana to barkeep would have meant no tie, just that we test barkeep. The fact they didnt means to me they didnt want to risk coming up bad, or barkeep is bad as well as it didnt matter who we killed.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:15 PM   #545
st.cronin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsguy
On the vote swap issue, someone could have swapped and created a tie. That certainly could have been done last night given the very low level of activity. Say that the vote was moved to create a tie at 7:30. If no other votes came into play someone could argue that they didn't think that a tie would hold up - that someone would change their vote. Blah blah blah ...

The Things obviously wanted to keep Saldana alive last night but couldn't get the numbers to do it. Even if one of them voted for Saldana, moving off of him would have freed them up for another conversion. So even if we hit Saldana and the person who created the tie the next day, they were still going to keep the game alive into Day 4 (assuming night conversions) because we can't get three in one day.

That's why I'm just about positive there is only one remaining at this point and that he wasn't on Saldana. I'm still a little surprised that whoever it is didn't just take the plunge and put the vote on Barkeep to use the strategy above. Because they ended up risking a total loss today to try and extend their playing time.


I agree with almost all of this. That means we should probably be looking at those who voted for BK. That's Blade, Anxiety, saldana, and me (gulp).

unvote dubb

vote Blade
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #546
Blade6119
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bring it cronin, im not backing down on my views
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:17 PM   #547
st.cronin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade6119
IT WOULDNT HAVE CREATED A TIE...am i missing somewhere, becuase everyone seems to think this. A swap from saldana to barkeep would have meant no tie, just that we test barkeep. The fact they didnt means to me they didnt want to risk coming up bad, or barkeep is bad as well as it didnt matter who we killed.

Of course it could've created a tie. Raiders could have typed unvote saldana, vote Jeeber. That would've made a tie.

I'm starting to like Blade as a thing ... he's usually very logical.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:17 PM   #548
Swaggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st.cronin
I think you're forgetting that a succesful test means they get no night cycle - that's a pretty fucking gigantic risk to take, don't you think?

Good point. I hadn't really thought about that.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:21 PM   #549
hoopsguy
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Updated votes, as of Post #548:

Hoopsguy - Dubb (433)
Tanglewood - Anxiety (447)
Raiders - Blade (463), mckerney (503)
WVU - Coffee (473), Hoopsguy (512)
Barkeep - JeeberD (484)
Jeeber - path (486), Swaggs (517)
Dubb - Raiders (504)
Blade - Cronin (545)

No vote - WVU, Tanglewood, Barkeep
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:22 PM   #550
Blade6119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckerney
in that case

Unvote Raiders Army
Vote dubb
missed that hoops
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