The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Hmmmm... who will get the blame here?

Bezos 3-2
Democrats generally 8-5
Obama 4-1
Hillary 8-1
Schumer and/or Pelosi 10-1
Bernie 15-1
Crappy product 300-1

I'd say any of the top 4 are likely. And all blamed in the same tweet

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by whomario

This has to be the low point in crisis management and it's beyond sad it might not even have an effect:

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 24. Juli 2018

Putin stood right next to him and said he wanted him to win.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Putin stood right next to him and said he wanted him to win.

FakeNews. The tv stations translated the speech incorrectly and wrote the wrong subtitles.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Putin stood right next to him and said he wanted him to win.

Well all you lefties keep on saying that Putin can't be trusted. RGIHT!!

/pompous snark

[RainMaker]

$12 billion in new welfare for farmers thanks to the tariffs. Would be cheaper just to get a real economist to convince him how dumb tariffs are.

‘Just be a little patient’: Trump pleads with farmers caught in tariffs war - The Washington Post

[bhlloy]

I feel like one day I may wake up from this bizarro world where the Republican Party hasn’t become the party of protectionism and massive bailouts to support it.

[JPhillips]

Just remember: what you’re seeing and what you're reading is not what’s happening.

Trump today.

[BYU 14]

Alex to the rescue. Seriously, talk about bat shit crazy.

Alex Jones Threatens To Shoot Robert Mueller

[kingfc22]

And now we’re deleting records of conversations to fit the narrative.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...script/565385/

[Thomkal]

CNN has a copy of Trump-Cohen tape discussing payment to buy the rights to Karen McDougal's story:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/polit...ape/index.html

[Julio Riddols]

This congress and the man presiding over it are both so suffocatingly inept and so blindingly deceitful that I simply cant fathom seeing a recovery in our lifetime. The nails are being hammered into place one by one, and they are being driven by the purest malice.

I'm sick for our children.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, the GOP gubernatorial runoff in Georgia results in a come from behind blowout victory for Trump-endorsed Sec. of State Kemp over previously heavy favorite Lt. Gov. Cagle.

It's going to end up somewhere around 2:1, if not 70-30. Kemp will carry 157 of the 159 counties, including Cagle's hometown.

Cagle's once double-digit lead evaporated after tapes of his conversation with another (failed) candidate were released by said failed candidate. Basically Cagle outright admitted on tape that he played politics with what he called "bad legislation" and helped it pass. That killed him with those who supported it AND killed him with those who opposed it. (It's legal to record a conversation here as long as one person involved in the recording is aware it's being done, so it was fair game)

The impact of the Trump endorsement was simply to provide the final nail, as the local media reports that the candidate's internal polling showed all undecideds following it over the past week.

Kemp, meanwhile, sent his kid to the same school mine went to ... and he's every bit if not more the intolerably unlikable ass that his opponent is.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Alex to the rescue. Seriously, talk about bat shit crazy.

Alex Jones Threatens To Shoot Robert Mueller

Trump was a guest on his show and said his "reputation was amazing".

I don't care about Jones and the political stuff. I think he's a sick man for what he's done to those poor parents who lost their children at Sandy Hook.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

CNN has a copy of Trump-Cohen tape discussing payment to buy the rights to Karen McDougal's story:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/polit...ape/index.html

Didn't listen to the tape but read the article.

TBH, not sure what is incriminating about the tape? There may be other tapes that goes into greater detail or Mueller may have some sort of record of the payment/paper trail coming from campaign finances but this tape by itself doesn't really say much.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think he's a sick man for what he's done to those poor parents who lost their children at Sandy Hook.

Couldn't agree more. I hope their lawsuits are successful.

Alex Jones compares himself to Woodward, Bernstein in bid to dismiss Sandy Hook lawsuit - CBS News

Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones argued he was acting as a journalist, comparing himself to the Washington Post reporters who uncovered the Watergate scandal, when he questioned the official narrative of the 2012 Sandy Hook school shooting on his talk show. In written arguments filed Friday, the right-wing radio host moved to dismiss a defamation lawsuit filed by the families of some of the 26 people killed in the Connecticut shooting. Jones acknowledged that he had called the shooting a hoax, but said he now believes it happened.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Didn't listen to the tape but read the article.

TBH, not sure what is incriminating about the tape? There may be other tapes that goes into greater detail or Mueller may have some sort of record of the payment/paper trail coming from campaign finances but this tape by itself doesn't really say much.

Imagine any other President getting caught on tape facilitating a hush money payment in possible violation of campaign finance laws. For most of our history this would have been a huge story.

[digamma]

Yeah, I mean, what else do you want the tape to have on it?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Alex to the rescue. Seriously, talk about bat shit crazy.

Alex Jones Threatens To Shoot Robert Mueller

I thought you wanted me to sort everything out for a minute there.

Then I thought, that's a bit harsh, maybe not entirely inaccurate, but unlikely to get me on board.

Then I saw the headline and sighed in relief.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I thought you wanted me to sort everything out for a minute there.

Then I thought, that's a bit harsh, maybe not entirely inaccurate, but unlikely to get me on board.

Then I saw the headline and sighed in relief.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by whomario

This has to be the low point in crisis management and it's beyond sad it might not even have an effect:

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 24. Juli 2018

I think it's smart. It muddies the waters, and Trump does better in muddy waters.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Imagine any other President getting caught on tape facilitating a hush money payment in possible violation of campaign finance laws.

Possible violation is right but I don't buy it unless there is more to the tapes. Trump has likely been paying off a bunch of mistresses even before he formalized his campaign. He used his own money or company's money.

I don't think its a great leap of faith that he did the same here (e.g. not use his campaign finance money). If he did, I assume there will be more coming out which would be great but I don't see it based on the tape(s) that have come out already.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

For most of our history this would have been a huge story.

If it is campaign finance dollars used, I agree. If not, then I revert back to Clinton, his infidelities are between him and his wife. It should also impact his supporters but I think its pretty obvious it doesn't.

I don't think it helps the Democrats to be jumping on everything that Trump may have done wrong. It drowns out the important stuff and infidelity, especially when it happened before he became President, is unfortunately not that important nowadays.

Yeah, I mean, what else do you want the tape to have on it?

For it to mean much to me, there should be a smoking gun and I don't see it (yet).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to tie Trump making payments from his campaign kitty to his infidelities but I really don't see much here right now.

[Thomkal]

Trump's Hollywood Star destroyed last night:


https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...489103611.html

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't think its a great leap of faith that he did the same here (e.g. not use his campaign finance money). If he did, I assume there will be more coming out which would be great but I don't see it based on the tape(s) that have come out already.

We spent the better part of three years in the 90s talking about stains on a blue dress and other aspects of Clinton's sex life. I get that things have changed in the last 20 years, but this is an incredible amount of goal post moving.

Does this matter in his ability to govern? Probably not. The record there is pretty clear as it is.

But the fact that a presidential candidate paid someone off (regardless of whether it came from campaign funds, his foundation, Michael Cohen's safe, or least likely, Trump's own pocket) a month before the general election to prevent her from talking about an affair is a fairly major scandal in any other time.

I remember how hard it was for many to reconcile with children how to talk about Clinton and Lewinski. This and Stormy, etc., makes that seem like a Pixar film.

To pretend it isn't shows just how little everything matters.

[Atocep]

Yeah, Clinton's affairs were a massive story at the time.

[JPhillips]

This story was bought by the National Enquirer and spiked. Discussing David on the tape makes it worth investigating as to whether there was coordination.

It isn't just about sex. Hush money payoffs are avenues for blackmail, just ask John Edwards.

[Ksyrup]

Clinton's affairs were tabloid fodder, but what caused his Presidency issues was lying under oath.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Clinton's affairs were tabloid fodder, but what caused his Presidency issues was lying under oath.

The GOP was going after him for the affairs. Him lying under oath was a convenient opportunity for them to impeach.

[digamma]

The field goal attempt just got another ten yards longer.

[Thomkal]

Mark MeadowsVerified account @RepMarkMeadows
I just filed a resolution with @Jim_Jordan and several colleagues to impeach Rod Rosenstein. The DOJ has continued to hide information from Congress and repeatedly obstructed oversight--even defying multiple Congressional subpoenas.…

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Mark MeadowsVerified account @RepMarkMeadows
I just filed a resolution with @Jim_Jordan and several colleagues to impeach Rod Rosenstein. The DOJ has continued to hide information from Congress and repeatedly obstructed oversight--even defying multiple Congressional subpoenas.…

He didn't force them to vote on it this week and they're recessing for 5 weeks tomorrow.



It's about giving red meat for the lunatic fringe while not having to actually do anything.

[corbes]

So the basis of the Rosenstein impeachment claim is that "norms have been violated"??????

In an appearance on Fox Business Network Wednesday night, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) said that while the next step remains uncertain as the House leaves town for its summer recess at the end of this week, “it was very important for those of us who believe that norms have been violated to step out and say Rod Rosenstein needs to be impeached.”

House conservatives introduce resolution calling for impeachment of Rod Rosenstein, who oversees special counsel probe on Russia - The Washington Post

I don't even know what word adequately describes the depth of shamelessness involved in that statement.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by bronconick

He didn't force them to vote on it this week and they're recessing for 5 weeks tomorrow.



It's about giving red meat for the lunatic fringe while not having to actually do anything.

So the Freedom Caucus's specialty.

[bronconick]

Also, 8 of the 11 who signed on were in Moscow for the 4th of July, and the impeachment articles also mention something the DOJ did in October 2016. Rosenstein was hired in April 2017.

[Edward64]

Here's one Stormy Daniel's analysis.

The $130,000 Stormy Daniels payoff: Was it a campaign expenditure? | PolitiFact

The central legal question is whether Cohen paid Daniels to help Trump’s campaign, or to help Trump. Experts agreed that the most significant consequences hinge on this point.

The Federal Election Commission rules examine this through the lens of whether campaign funds have been put to personal use; the commission applies something called the Irrespective Test. The law says that something is personal if it’s "any commitment, obligation, or expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign."

By that standard, said Emory School of Law professor Michael Kang, "the circumstances and context here are suspicious," but it’s no slam-dunk that the payment was an expenditure on behalf of the campaign.

"Cohen may have been sufficiently involved in Trump’s personal dealings, perhaps with other similar transactions in the past, that they can credibly argue the hush payment would’ve been handled in similar fashion even if Trump were not a candidate," Kang said.

Former FEC chair Bradley Smith told us he sees evidence from Daniels that places this outside the realm of the campaign.

"Daniels herself has said that years before Trump declared for president, she was threatened about not disclosing any affair, suggesting, if she's telling the truth, that her silence was desired long before Trump became a candidate," Smith said.

And one on McDougal.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/25/176108...ugal-explained

Rather than a smoking gun, the tape is probably most significant as a piece of a larger puzzle about an apparent hush money and scandal suppression operation for Trump. What we learned specifically from the tape is that Trump was well aware of Cohen’s involvement with AMI and David Pecker in hushing up McDougal.

The specific thing Trump and Cohen discuss doing in the tape is themselves paying AMI. There’s no evidence yet that they actually ended up doing this.
:
Trump allies’ best chance of defending themselves is probably to argue that the payments weren’t truly campaign-related. Trump, for instance, could argue that he is a celebrity and that such payments are common among celebrities dealing with the tabloids. AMI, too, could try to argue that this was a standard practice it used in its celebrity coverage. But the evidence could well contradict these claims.

As of right now, I think there is a good chance he will wiggle out of affairs-campaign finance issue based on what is public. Not saying that's the right thing. Obviously there will be more tapes and more from Cohen.


.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

We spent the better part of three years in the 90s talking about stains on a blue dress and other aspects of Clinton's sex life. I get that things have changed in the last 20 years, but this is an incredible amount of goal post moving.

Honestly, I think Clinton was at least equivalent if not greater. His affair was during his Presidency and he lied under oath.

Originally Posted by digamma

I remember how hard it was for many to reconcile with children how to talk about Clinton and Lewinski. This and Stormy, etc., makes that seem like a Pixar film.

To pretend it isn't shows just how little everything matters.

The public didn't know/expect it from Clinton and so it was a great shock and disappointment. The public did know about Trump, probably expected it of him (e.g. 3 wives), and he was still elected.

I think we just differ on this. The Clinton thing made a bigger impact on me than what we currently know about Trump's affairs and payoff.

[corbes]

Such disaggregation is truly something to behold.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The public didn't know/expect it from Clinton and so it was a great shock and disappointment. The public did know about Trump, probably expected it of him (e.g. 3 wives), and he was still elected.

No. The campaign in 1992 was rocked by infidelity accusations and Clinton was generally thought to be a womanizer long before the election. Lewinsky wasn't presented as a shocking, out of character event, but instead as part of a pattern of immoral sexual behavior.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No. The campaign in 1992 was rocked by infidelity accusations and Clinton was generally thought to be a womanizer long before the election. Lewinsky wasn't presented as a shocking, out of character event, but instead as part of a pattern of immoral sexual behavior.

Yup. I remember Rush Limbaugh joking about the new Clinton condom: "Scented with Flowers."

Gennifer Flowers - Wikipedia

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
The public didn't know/expect it from Clinton and so it was a great shock and disappointment. The public did know about Trump, probably expected it of him (e.g. 3 wives), and he was still elected.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No. The campaign in 1992 was rocked by infidelity accusations and Clinton was generally thought to be a womanizer long before the election. Lewinsky wasn't presented as a shocking, out of character event, but instead as part of a pattern of immoral sexual behavior.

I'm going to assume you were answering to my first sentence in the quote and don't disagree on the second re: Trump.

You are right, there was the Flowers scandal before the election which Clinton was obviously able to survive until it really hit the fan with Lewinsky. His lies and Hillary standing by him (e.g. 60 minutes) with Flowers helped considerably.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying -- you don't believe it was a "great shock and disappointment" re: Lewinsky because it was to me. Certainly didn't expect it while he was President.

[JPhillips]

I'm saying the public absolutely knew and largely expected it from Clinton. At the time it was very common for people to separate his personal behavior from his Presidential behavior. His approval rating was @60% throughout his second term.

[JPhillips]

So these things don't get lost,

Yesterday,

the WH banned a reporter from an event for asking questions they didn't like

Republican members of the House filed impeachment papers against a GOP appointee for his actions supervising an investigation into the President

emails made public show Columbus, OH cops planned an arrest of a woman suing the President and then lied about it

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm saying the public absolutely knew and largely expected it from Clinton. At the time it was very common for people to separate his personal behavior from his Presidential behavior. His approval rating was @60% throughout his second term.

I don't know how to prove or disprove the first sentence. I did try searching for polls but only found articles. I personally don't see it where public would have expected Clinton to have affairs while in office.

I do agree his polls were good during/after Lewinsky but think that can be attributed to numerous factors other than "public ... expected it from Clinton".

[mckerney]

The Trump administration deliberately took actions that it knew was likely to strengthen MS-13.

Trump admin was warned a policy change could strengthen MS-13. They did it anyway.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by mckerney

The Trump administration deliberately took actions that it knew was likely to strengthen MS-13.

Trump admin was warned a policy change could strengthen MS-13. They did it anyway.

That's because they don't care about MS-13. They care about deporting Hispanics.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That's because they don't care about MS-13. They care about deporting Hispanics.

One could say the more active MS-13 is the more it helps Trumps agenda in his war against brown people.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Lathum

One could say the more active MS-13 is the more it helps Trumps agenda in his war against brown people.

I'm just happy that Long Island is safe for white people again.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm going to assume you were answering to my first sentence in the quote and don't disagree on the second re: Trump.

You are right, there was the Flowers scandal before the election which Clinton was obviously able to survive until it really hit the fan with Lewinsky. His lies and Hillary standing by him (e.g. 60 minutes) with Flowers helped considerably.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying -- you don't believe it was a "great shock and disappointment" re: Lewinsky because it was to me. Certainly didn't expect it while he was President.

The context and the rise of the Moral Majority played a massively significant factor in the 'shock and disappointment', and the way it all played out in the media. The rise of Limbaugh as a factor in politics simply reinforced that. The perception at the time that it was a massive deal, whereas now, what comes out from trump is just a 'meh' moment means nothing.



Taken for what they are, one major change is apparent. That the right, no longer holds their own to the same standards they held everyone else to and the reasoning for that is all about power. That it was really all about power all along and it will never again, be about anything but power.



Or, as a society, we are now completely immune to sexual assault, and serial cheaters who leave a wake of damage behind them. I'm leaning toward the former.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So these things don't get lost,

Yesterday,

the WH banned a reporter from an event for asking questions they didn't like

Republican members of the House filed impeachment papers against a GOP appointee for his actions supervising an investigation into the President

emails made public show Columbus, OH cops planned an arrest of a woman suing the President and then lied about it

[corbes]

this:

Originally Posted by PilotMan

it was really all about power all along

[corbes]

Originally Posted by corbes

Aside from the shamelessness and the red meat, the angle may have something to do with leverage in the contest for speaker of the house.

Reading Between the Lines on House Efforts to Impeach Rod Rosenstein - Lawfare

Cue Scalise. Rep. Scalise says he supports effort by conservative lawmakers to impeach Rosenstein - The Washington Post