The Trump Presidency – 2016

[PilotMan]

Well if we've learned anything from trump it's that this is the fastest way to safer world.

[Groundhog]

Great news everybody, Asbestos is back! I thought it was a bit strange how often I saw the Mesothelioma lawsuit commercials when I was in the US a few years back, but I guess they're set for a big comeback roughly 40 years from now:

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-as...manufacturing/
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing

One of the most dangerous construction-related carcinogens is now legally allowed back into U.S. manufacturing under a new rule by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On June 1, the EPA authorized a “SNUR” (Significant New Use Rule) which allows new products containing asbestos to be created on a case-by-case basis.

According to environmental advocates, this new rule gives chemical companies the upper hand in creating new uses for such harmful products in the United States. In May, the EPA released a report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances. The report states that the agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.

This news comes after the EPA reviewed its first batch of 10 chemicals under the 2016 amendment to the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which required the agency to continually reevaluate hundreds of potentially toxic chemicals to see whether they should face new restrictions or be removed from the market. The SNUR greenlights companies to use toxic chemicals like asbestos without thinking about how it will endanger people who are indirectly in contact with it.

Asbestos, once seen as a magical mineral, was widely used in building insulation up until it was banned in most countries in the 1970s. The U.S. is one of the only developed nations in the world that has placed significant restrictions on the substance without banning it completely. New data revealed that asbestos-related deaths now total nearly 40,000 annually, with lung cancer and mesothelioma being the most common illnesses in association with the toxin. That number could rise if new asbestos-containing products make their way into brand new buildings.

...snipped...

The bolded part is particularly interesting - the EPA is not considering the effects on the...well... environment with its risk assessments going forward.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I hope that all those who get sick from it bypass the EPA and directly sue Trump.

What I said about this when we first talked about what he was doing with asbestos still holds true. There are going to be so many lawsuits about this I think.

[Atocep]

Trump has said asbestos is a mob conspiracy.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

What I said about this when we first talked about what he was doing with asbestos still holds true. There are going to be so many lawsuits about this I think.

No worries, as long as we keep that evil Marijuana as a schedule 1 drug.

But I agree, this is going to be a legal morass for the EPA.

[JPhillips]

Details of the rulemaking proposal are still being finalized, but based on a recent draft seen last week and described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.

Of course, this won't cover good benefits like corporate welfare, tax credits, farm subsidies and the like. This is targeted specifically at ending the American dream.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Of course, this won't cover good benefits like corporate welfare, tax credits, farm subsidies and the like. This is targeted specifically at ending the American dream.

Huh? Seems pretty easy to me. People who have already came in illegally and then forged documents to obtain benefits they are not entitled to, IE people who are already of suspect character and shown a wllinigness to break the law to benefit their selves exclusively, will be prevented from becoming legal citizens. Since we want to discourage immigration from criminals.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Huh? Seems pretty easy to me. People who have already came in illegally and then forged documents to obtain benefits they are not entitled to, IE people who are already of suspect character and shown a wllinigness to break the law to benefit their selves exclusively, will be prevented from becoming legal citizens. Since we want to discourage immigration from criminals.

If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.

So, let's say that you were nave enough to actually believe the Republicans when they said things like "We are only concerned about illegal immigration." Or when they said that they want "people to do it the right way."

And you came here legally and got resident status and are working toward your green card (i.e. the right way). And your U.S. Citizen child used a benefit (CHIP, etc.) to which he was 100% entitled at the time and which, at the time, had no impact on your green card status.

They want to then say that you can't become a citizen.

That's a horrible proposal.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: This comes from reporting on the proposal, which isn't public yet.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.

So, let's say that you were nave enough to actually believe the Republicans when they said things like "We are only concerned about illegal immigration." Or when they said that they want "people to do it the right way."

And you came here legally and got resident status and are working toward your green card (i.e. the right way). And your U.S. Citizen child used a benefit (CHIP, etc.) to which he was 100% entitled at the time and which, at the time, had no impact on your green card status.

They want to then say that you can't become a citizen.

That's a horrible proposal.

If thats the finalized proposal, that people who used benefits tey were legally entitled to are punished, then yes. That's wrong.



That's not how I read it initially.


Picking nits here but it also says hindered not prevented.

[albionmoonlight]

I imagine part of what the admin is doing here is floating various proposals out there through the media, gauging the reaction, and then planning to issue an actual proposal based on pubic response to the reports. So we really won't know what it's going to say until they go public.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.

And, theoretically, even if the person legally entitled to the benefits wasn't a member of the household. Depends on how broadly it's written and interpreted, but you're a legal immigrant? Got a green card?

Meet a girl in college, fall in love, get married...find out that she used SCHIP as a child, 20 years before she even met you?

That counts against you. It might not prevent you gaining citizenship...but it might, too.

[Thomkal]

So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post

[Thomkal]

One of the accountants who testified with immunity in Manafort's trial has already been fired:


Manafort accountant who admitted role in false tax returns leaves Virginia firm - POLITICO

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post

You just can't make this shit up. Convenient timing with the increased regulation in Brazil as well. And, the company posted on FB a month ago!

[RainMaker]

Asbestos is huge in Russia. They even have a town named for it. With all the advanced countries banning it, they've relied a lot on exporting to developing countries. Probably figured this was a good chance to get back into the US market.

On the other hand, I can't see this taking off again in the United States. It'll be impossible to insure and there's an army of lawyers ready to pounce on any company who even mutters the word.

[whomario]

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire from spreading!"

Still can't be sure if he is a moron or evil. Or what is the 'worse' option ...

As someone fascinated by semiotics, the use of "diverting" here is a stellar example of his ideology at work.

[PilotMan]

trump is totally willing to point to californians and say 'hey, if you supported me, we'd send you some help, but instead, you're all Jerry Brown supporters to we're just gonna watch it burn.'



At least, that is the way it sounds when he talks about it. Like it's some kind of heavenly punishment for going against him.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post

Redistributing elsewhere, nice find as usual.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It was taken down, but here's a screenshot:

Pretty sad. Thanks for reminding the US where most of the hijackers came from.

I do think the new Prince is moving things along and it seems to be an overreaction to criticism from Canada (unless I'm missing something).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

That's a horrible proposal.

Yup, I would agree. Its nonsensical to me, the proposal is to apply this to legal immigration, just weird.

[RainMaker]

And next time he cries about kneeling being disrespectful towards the troops, remember that asbestos killed a ton of military personnel since it was used heavily in their equipment.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure if we have an international news thread but did anyone see the Saudis put up a tweet basically threatening a 9/11 on Canada?

Just to play devils advocate: "The Saudis" here is a decently popular non-profit project. It's like equating a right wing group in support of Trump posting a picture vilifying mexicans or african shithole countries with the United States official policy/ideology. Just because in the US it's the actual head of state doing it doesn't mean in other countries any groups posts are secretely distributing stuff coming straight from the top

That being said, Saudi Arabia are absolutely trying to draw some sort of red line in the sand. Also basically told 16.000 students currently in Canada to come home (or else). They kinda got into it with Germany end of last year over similar issues (foreigh secretary commenting on human rights issues) but quickly got over it. Probably as soon as the next shipment of weapons came in with the blessing of out government, because fuck integrity ...

Might just be the hardliners in the hierarchy asserting themselves or getting leeway in exchange for not blowing a casket over the more progressive actions taken recently. Even in most non-democratic societies you have to appease a "base" (so to speak) nowadays and take public oppinion into accounts. Especially if you have a comparatively big upper class like in Saudi Arabia.

[Drake]

Agree with whomario here. This is like taking a meme from a nutter group like Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and attributing it to Americans generally or the government in particular.

[JPhillips]

JUST IN: Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY), Trump’s earliest congressional backer, arrested by the FBI on securities fraud-related charges, via @jonathan4ny

— Peter Alexander (@PeterAlexander) August 8, 2018

[Thomkal]

Got his son and father of his fiancee too:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...harges-n898661

[Vince, Pt. II]

What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?

Wipe out the deficit and make America rich.

Haven't you been listening?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Got his son and father of his fiancee too:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...harges-n898661

Apparently Collins was at the 2017 Congressional Picnic when he got the tip, and went into the White House somewhere to call his son about it

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?

It's a long, long game, but in the end, it should raise prices enough so that American companies and consumers get accustomed to the prices that allow companies bases in the United States to provide for Americans. So if you have to go to Walmart and pay more for because we want companies to be able to pay for better healthcare for their employees, who are also Americans, and those companies can now compete with foreign companies who don't and pay $2 a day, then so be it.

The thing is, that businessmen and businesses will never allow this to really take hold. It'll never amount to anything that far down the road. Instead, it'll be crushed. When the first sign of a slowdown in the economy comes it'll be dumped.

The idea is to protect American interests. I'm lucky to work in an industry that is so vital to US commerce. Our lobbying arm is quite strong and very proactive about protecting the industry. At least it should be around for the remaining 22 years of my career.

[jeff061]

And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.

In China if you voice your frustrations on tariffs, you may get black bagged. Not to mention the cult of personality developing around Xi.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.

In China if you voice your frustrations on tariffs, you may get black bagged. Not to mention the cult of personality developing around Xi.

Yep, it's part of why our system isn't really able to compete with that, and why we need large international trade pacts that increase the US trade strength.

It's why we have forensic economists who look at raw materials being used in China and Russia and everywhere else, because their official numbers are always bullshit. It's how we know what's really going on, and how many resources they are actually using.

trump would love to have that kind of control over the US. It's actually what he wants and craves and sadly there are about 38% of Americans willing to sign him up for a long term, check free deal.

[stevew]

Gif of Collins chanting Lock Her Up?

[RainMaker]

Alex Jones' Lawyer Seeks To Make Sandy Hook Parents' Home Addresses Public | HuffPost

[Thomkal]

I really don't understand how Jones has been allowed to keep this conspiracy alive all these years. He should be sued for every last dollar he has and thrown in jail if he won't stop with it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I really don't understand how Jones has been allowed to keep this conspiracy alive all these years. He should be sued for every last dollar he has and thrown in jail if he won't stop with it.

Yup, I agree with this.

Something is in the works but I don't get why this wasn't done alot earlier.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/al...uit/index.html

A defamation lawsuit has been filed against broadcaster Alex Jones, along with some of his associates, for saying the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, was fake.

On Wednesday, families of four students and two educators who died, along with one FBI agent who responded to the shooting, filed the suit in a Connecticut court.

"Jones is the chief amplifier for a group that has worked in concert to create and propagate loathsome, false narratives about the Sandy Hook shooting and its victims, and promote their harassment and abuse," the lawsuit states. There are also six companies named in the suit, including various entities related to Jones' InfoWars website.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yup, I agree with this.

Something is in the works but I don't get why this wasn't done alot earlier.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/al...uit/index.html

My guess is his audience was smaller in the past and the defamation didn't have much affect on their lives. Once the President gave him credibility and his audience skyrocketed, there's way more followers capable of doing damage.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?

Trump's stated main goal is to reduce the deficit. I think it also includes having China treat US companies better (e.g. intellectual property, partnering with Chinese companies) and to bring back some/increase manufacturing in the US.

I like all 3 goals in concept. I would feel a lot better if I thought Trump had a real strategy to achieve all 3 vs shooting from the hip.

To your second paragraph, reducing the deficit can be done with increasing exports to China, decreasing imports from China, or a combination. Decreasing imports wouldn't mean US local businesses pick up the slack though, it could also be other countries providing the goods (e.g. Vietnam).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by jeff061

And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.

Before the new-normal, I would agree with you.

However, if GOP retains the House & Senate (primarily because of Trump's endorsements, strength of US economy), I can easily believe most GOP politicians will stay the course with Trump.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Trump's stated main goal is to reduce the deficit. I think it also includes having China treat US companies better (e.g. intellectual property, partnering with Chinese companies) and to bring back some/increase manufacturing in the US.

You just described TPP.

Originally Posted by Edward64

To your second paragraph, reducing the deficit can be done with increasing exports to China, decreasing imports from China, or a combination. Decreasing imports wouldn't mean US local businesses pick up the slack though, it could also be other countries providing the goods (e.g. Vietnam).

The trade deficit is a bit overrated and the economy is more complex than it. We had a huge trade surplus during the great depression for instance. Didn't exactly help things there. It's still something the country should be looking at.

Tariffs have never worked in helping this area. As evidence by the fact our trade deficit has increased under Trump. It likely will continue to suffer as he cuts student visas.

Plus his massive tax cuts is adding a ton to the federal deficit which forces foreign investment. The easiest way to reduce the trade deficit is to cut the federal one.

[stevew]

Seriously I know that nobody wants to see a bunch of dead kids but I think a few more crime scene photos(heavily pixelated) would quash some of this truther shit.

[stevew]

Or maybe they'd just use it to further their hate speech, wtfk

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by stevew

Seriously I know that nobody wants to see a bunch of dead kids but I think a few more crime scene photos(heavily pixelated) would quash some of this truther shit.

Pixelation would just mean to them that the government is covering something up.

And do you actually think these people would be persuaded by evidence? They have their conclusion and would think any evidence to the contrary would be falsified.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You just described TPP.

TPP did not include China?

I guess an argument could be made that the TPP nations, working together, will have greater leverage on China to enact substantial reforms. I don't think that was a sure thing (and neither is Trump's current approach).

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

Or maybe they'd just use it to further their hate speech, wtfk

Yes

No amount of evidence kills off conspiracies. Trying show evidence actually seems to do more harm than good.

I think the best approach to Sandy Hook is sue the shit out of Alex Jones. It's not going to put an end to the conspiracy, but it gets us one step closer to getting him off the air.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

TPP did not include China?

By design.

The primary reason TPP came together was to isolate China. That was the goal. TPP would have likely done a far better job of doing what Trump is trying to do without pissing off all of our allies.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Before the new-normal, I would agree with you.

However, if GOP retains the House & Senate (primarily because of Trump's endorsements, strength of US economy), I can easily believe most GOP politicians will stay the course with Trump.

Even the most ardent Trump supporters will turn on him if they are hit too hard in the pocket for too long and the GOP will follow. Why do you think they are already lining up payoffs to farmers?

People are still people, flaws and all, there is no "new normal".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Even the most ardent Trump supporters will turn on him if they are hit too hard in the pocket for too long and the GOP will follow. Why do you think they are already lining up payoffs to farmers?

People are still people, flaws and all, there is no "new normal".

They've voted against their economic self-interests for decades now. Trump isn't going to change that.

And like you said, they'll just up the welfare payments to those people if they feel pressure.

[Thomkal]

So Rachel Maddow played a tape tonight on her show from some progressive group that got into a Republican, no press invited, fundraiser for Kathy McMorris Rodgers, the #4 Republican in the House last week. Her invited guest was Devin Nunes. They secretly taped what he said there and sent it to NBC. To me it did not sound anything too inflamatory, but Twitter is ablaze with tweets calling what he said was Obstruction. See what you think:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...-would-n899031

[Thomkal]

Not to be lost in the important news of the day, it appears the VA is being run by a shadow council of three members of Mar-A-Lago:


The Shadow Rulers of the VA — ProPublica