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Old 12-20-2019, 10:47 AM   #1
tzach
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Heavy passing game plans and playbooks

I decided to make some of my heavy passing game plans and playbooks available to everyone. Why not let everyone have a bit of fun passing the ball?

I include two game plans and the respective playbooks. the IHOF TOR game plan needs West Coast (slightly worse with spread), and the CCFL NED game plan needs Balanced style. don't try with other styles.

since I devised the offensive plans, i also thought of a way to stop that type of passing attack, so i include a generic game plan for that. that is for a 34 defense, but you can adapt to 43 by removing 1 blitzer. it won't always work, and you need the proper personnel, but it's a good start. I also include a sample game plan to stop the run (you need personnel again), and a base defensive gameplan.

have fun and merry christmas

(ben will attach the file below)


Last edited by tzach : 12-20-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:55 AM   #2
Ben E Lou
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Heh. It wasn't just you, tzach. I can't post attachments either any more. I'm assuming OS changed something on the back end that I can't access. I double-checked, and they're definitely enabled in vbulletin. *shurg*


So, link instead.


http://www.fof-belco.com/tzach_pb_gp.zip
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Last edited by Ben E Lou : 12-20-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:03 AM   #3
Alf
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Muchas gracias
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:11 AM   #4
tzach
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You need the appropriate personnel to make these gameplans work. You need to focus on gettting 2 WRs and 1 TE -- they need to be at least good to make it work. the slot WR will see very little action, so you can save some money there. the TE will save you on third down, so getting a stud here helps but is not required. good doesn't mean good overall rating -- look at the bars that are needed below. you can get 50-rated WRs and 40 rated TEs with those bar patterns.

Here are my recommendations.

QB: timing above all (above 70), followed by sense rush (above 45). try to get a qb with high avoid interception. this is easier to find in a qb from the green and yellow chemistry groups (low intelligence and high solecismic score). but the other two groups can also give you those players. anything else is bonus, but what helps is scramble, followed by short passing, then medium passing.

RB: blitz protection and special teams, followed by hole recognition. he's not here to run the ball, but he'll have 5-6 chances per game.
FB: not needed (you can line up a TE there).

OL: pass protection (above 60) and endurance if you can find players like that. for the CCFL gameplan, good to get a LT that can run block, as all the runs are to the left.
TE: route running (above 50), getting downfield (above 50), then courage, third down catch.
WR: route running (above 70), gettting downfield (above 60), endurance (above 70).

Last edited by tzach : 12-20-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:49 PM   #5
Surtt
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Really cool of you to post this.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:04 PM   #6
tzach
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Originally Posted by Surtt View Post
Really cool of you to post this.


thanks surtt -- please teach people how to build a pass defense
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:59 AM   #7
Hammer
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I had a blast with these this morning. Passing Offense dominates without question. Put it in to the Offense I got 9000 yards with and it came up pretty similar. Just a few minor mods necessary to suit the team which took 2 minutes.

But I found the Passing Defense to be worse than Rex. On face value the heavy use of Press 1 led it to getting burned. Looking in the help file it is the 2nd worst against the deep pass, and overall not as good as the standard 2 deep Press and Cover defenses. Not that I can do any better, nothing I can come up with will stop a dominant Passing Offense with the right personnel behind it. Maybe nudge the 9000 yard Offense down to 8000 yards, but that is about it.

Last edited by Hammer : 12-22-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 12-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #8
TeamBills59
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Thank you for doing this

"this is easier to find in a qb from the green and yellow chemistry groups (low intelligence and high solecismic score)."

What do you mean by green and yellow chemistry groups? Wouldn't low intelligence be a bad thing?
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Old 12-22-2019, 11:16 PM   #9
tzach
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Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
= Not that I can do any better, nothing I can come up with will stop a dominant Passing Offense with the right personnel behind it.


others have done it. the fact that you cannot come up with something doesn't mean that it can't be done ;-)



(i mean this in the best possible way -- lots of respect towards you, hammer. i'm only mentioning this so people here don't get confused).
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Old 12-22-2019, 11:17 PM   #10
tzach
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Originally Posted by TeamBills59 View Post
Thank you for doing this

"this is easier to find in a qb from the green and yellow chemistry groups (low intelligence and high solecismic score)."

What do you mean by green and yellow chemistry groups? Wouldn't low intelligence be a bad thing?


FOF7 Chemistry Chart


https://sites.google.com/view/tzach/personality-traits

Last edited by tzach : 12-22-2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:15 AM   #11
Hammer
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Originally Posted by tzach View Post
others have done it. the fact that you cannot come up with something doesn't mean that it can't be done ;-)



(i mean this in the best possible way -- lots of respect towards you, hammer. i'm only mentioning this so people here don't get confused).

I think when these all powerful Passing Offenses are stopped, from my experience and what I have seen, it comes down to dice rolls. Not a consistent proven method.

The illusion of control. People want to believe something they did had a strong effect. Actually poor dice rolls on Offense had more impact.

What I see in the game is Offenses following consistent patterns. We saw that in the RZB, the best Offenses rise to the top. Defenses are much less consistent, their success is dictated by the Offenses they face. In fact I would say great Offense is a better Defense, than Defense is.

I would love someone to come up with a Defense which tests out. I simply don't think it is possible as the play calls are all too samey and do very little. I would be glad to be wrong, but this deep on I would need proof. Something I can test for myself.

Minor things do help and work. Double coverage, low penalty count, the secondary slightly, chemistry and cohesion, a pass rush moderately, play calls a small amount. But its like an NFL Linebacker hitting a passing truck for all the impact it has.

I think you are smart guy, and I applaud you for discover this winning formula. Being able to work around the cap at RB and OL is a big advantage, even before we consider the productivity of the Offense.

But lets level with the community and not try to pull the wool over their eyes. This is incredibly easy to set up. You discovered but anyone can do it. I sat down to try this for myself and within 30 minutes I was throwing for 9000 yards in SP.

1. Great Personnel at WR, TE ideally QB and pass blockers (WR is key in both quality and depth, QB really helps - didn't find the Timing bar makes much difference personally, pass blocking is a bonus). Take out all RB and FB targets

2. Balance is key (Give the AI the formations and passing distances it wants to see - 1. 113 2. 122 etc etc, 1, 2, SC, 3, 4 high usage, W moderate, F, Dig 5, 6 lower usage, 7,8 lower again, 9 and Deep lowest).

3. Just loading your whole gameplan up with passing plays and you are done. Ideally don't throw the same pattern more than twice.


That is all I did and I threw for 9000 yards in SP, which I guess is worth 8000ish in MP.

I know others will see if differently but I didn't sign up to play Madden, FOF is supposed to be a serious NFL sim right? No real tools to stop the system. Sadly I am heading for the door unless Jim provides a miracle cure. When others realise this is the ultimate winning system and it takes over I think many more will follow in the fullness of time.

The familiar system was supposed to stop this from happening IMO. Call it an exploit or whatever, it is illustrating a problem in the game more than anything.

Last edited by Hammer : 12-23-2019 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 03:25 PM   #12
QuikSand
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How many plays does your OC need to run these, and how badly hampered will they be if he's short?
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Old 12-24-2019, 06:16 AM   #13
Hammer
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Originally Posted by QuikSand View Post
How many plays does your OC need to run these, and how badly hampered will they be if he's short?

Doesn't cause a problem, minimum is still workable. I aimed to run a play just once from the oddball formations the game doesn't like, and the unfavoured routes also just once.

The other 35-40 plays you will have no problem running twice from the 113 and 122 provided you stick to the formation and distances frequencies the AI likes to see.
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Old 12-24-2019, 11:43 AM   #14
QuikSand
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I suspect you're answering a different question than I am asking. I really don't wish to go out and develop my own gameplans. I would, however, be interested in dropping one of these gameplans, intact, onto a team of mine so see how it works. In trying this, I think I got a message that the gameplan included a full 69 plays, and that's tough to find staff to handle that.

I know FOF gets wonky when you try to square peg a gameplan into a wrong playbook... not sure if there are similar problems by using a shorthanded staff.

So, my question for tzach, if he knows, is what does our OC need to have to operate these gameplans?
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Old 12-25-2019, 03:42 AM   #15
tzach
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Originally Posted by QuikSand View Post
So, my question for tzach, if he knows, is what does our OC need to have to operate these gameplans?


69 plays for the CCFL gameplan and 58 for IHOF. i'll edit the CCFL to run with 60 plays.
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Old 12-25-2019, 10:11 AM   #16
QuikSand
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Many thanks!
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:42 AM   #17
tzach
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for anyone that missed, there's a new version out (8.3) so the game plans above are in some sense obsolete. i asked ben to delete the file from his server.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:25 AM   #18
finkellll
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I know that 8.3 made these playbooks somewhat obsolete, but I figured I would reply anyway.


I managed to hold one of these offenses to 280 passing yards and 1 offensive td in the OSFL playoffs last year, and figured I would share what I did with my defense. I've had mixed success overall against these offenses, but stats wise I have been above average in every game, so I believe I'm doing something right. Also important part is that I was running a 34 eagle defense, you 43 boys might have different mileage.


It's not letting me attach a box score / log file but I can provide it if needed.



TL;DR Big BNR bars, no double teams, play press-2.



1) Bump & Run corners 1 & 2. This is probably the most important part of the defense. My LCB and RCB were rated 65 and 51 OVR, but their BNR bars were 85 & 91. The pass is coming, there is no reason to give free releases to the WRs. This is quickly becoming one of my favorite CB bars.



2) No double teams. The biggest benefit to big BNR bars is that there is no longer a good reason to call double teams. From the defensive philosophy:


"Double coverage means one defender picks up the receiver at the line of scrimmage, bumps him and trails him while a second defender, assigned to a deep zone, brackets him and prevents him specifically from getting behind the coverage."


If you have good BNR CBs and good ZD safeties you are already "doubling" both X & Z in a press-2 defense as far as FOF is concerned.



A good FOF GM will put a low OVR, high RR WR in the slot AND TE, meaning that not only does double 1st & 2nd never reach the WR you want, but you have now taken one of your LBs or SS out of ZD and into BNR. Doubling hurts far more than it helps, and I rarely use it in 3rd & long against 2 WR sets, but never 1st & 2nd down, and never against 113 against a GM that is exploiting the RR evaluation.



3) Press-2 & cover-2. I have no experience with Tampa-2 since I don't play 43, but you cannot sit back against this offense with mostly cover 3 and 4. When I go up against this offense I set my 113 - normal defense to have a press-2 and cover-2 play, and the 3rd slot is sometimes cover-3, sometimes another press-2/cover-2 play. My best success was 60% press-2 & cover-2, and 15% cover-3, and the other 25% was spread between cover-1, press-1, and man.



4) Pass rush doesn't have to be great, but you do need to generate pressure. Looking thru the box scores it looks like I'm getting some kind of sack, hit, hurry, or block on 25% of dropbacks.



5) chemistry & cohesion. I have good chemistry in my secondary where I've had great success, but it's not necessary. I haven't had above average cohesion, so I can't comment there, other than stating that average cohesion is good enough.
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:08 AM   #19
QuikSand
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bump4lyfe
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Old 02-16-2020, 09:01 AM   #20
Euphy
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Anyone help with this? How do I get to be pass heavy? I have a really good QB and he's not throwing nearly as much as I want him to.
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Old 03-16-2020, 04:42 PM   #21
Tormaz
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The link doesn't work for me.

I'd love to try these out. Can anyone upload them?
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Old Today, 01:49 PM   #22
Tormaz
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I'll throw a final bump up here to see if anyone has these still that would upload them so I can play around with them on version 8.2.
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