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Old 09-18-2021, 09:21 AM   #3401
GrantDawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
The French hoopla is confusing.

The Biden strategy to get Australia-UK-US alliance vs China is good. But it would have been better with France also.

Did we really need to scuttle the $40B French deal? Why not get a 4 partner alliance and still have French sell/build the subs.

I don't think we have the full story yet.
According to the Aussies I have read, France was over charging and under delivering. They missed multiple deadlines and had many price overruns. It sends like the Aussies got tired of being overcharged with nothing to show for it.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:25 AM   #3402
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The Biden Presidency - 2020

I often feel that way about French dips at restaurants

I’m not even joking


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Old 09-18-2021, 09:52 AM   #3403
I. J. Reilly
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Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
According to the Aussies I have read, France was over charging and under delivering. They missed multiple deadlines and had many price overruns. It sends like the Aussies got tired of being overcharged with nothing to show for it.

Have they ever bought anything from an American defense contractor before? They might be in for a bit of a surprise.
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Old 09-18-2021, 10:17 AM   #3404
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https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/polit...led/index.html

So much for rebuilding alliances.
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Old 09-18-2021, 10:18 AM   #3405
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Have they ever bought anything from an American defense contractor before? They might be in for a bit of a surprise.

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Old 09-18-2021, 05:44 PM   #3406
GrantDawg
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Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly View Post
Have they ever bought anything from an American defense contractor before? They might be in for a bit of a surprise.
I have the feeling American defense contractors are better at customer service to their international clients. Something about the threat of actually losing the contract for hundreds of millions of dollars that makes them actually deliver.

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Old 09-18-2021, 06:18 PM   #3407
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They are still seething over the Freedom Fries thing. They just know how to play the long game.
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:20 PM   #3408
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dola:

Joking aside, I'd love to credit Biden for this. But I'm pretty sure any President is going to value American national security over French security contractors.
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Old 09-19-2021, 06:10 AM   #3409
Edward64
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I was critical of Biden during the run because I didn't think he really took the China threat seriously. Liking him now. He is doing the right things with (re)building military & political alliances etc. in Asia.

He hasn't done much economically so far other than to hang on to Trump policies. I do hope the decoupling continues, manufacturing & trade with other Asian countries increases etc.

It is interesting no peep on rejoining the TPP deal. Things have changed since Trump dropped out of TPP but I'd think Biden want back in. I guess he made a conscious decision and said "I have a better way".
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:13 AM   #3410
JPhillips
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It's a banner morning for GOP governors. Missisippi's got absolutely torched by Jake Tapper for refusing to do anything different to reduce the COVID death rate in MS. GA Gov Kemp then said he's against a vaccine mandate because when we mandated the AIDS vaccine that didn't work.

There's an AIDS vaccine?
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:52 AM   #3411
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GA Gov Kemp then said he's against a vaccine mandate because when we mandated the AIDS vaccine that didn't work.

There's an AIDS vaccine?

Kemp amended his statement and said he meant the HPV vaccine, which is required in some states and absolutely works but has a low uptake overall because of a lack of mandates in other states.
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:40 PM   #3412
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HPV is a perfect example of why mandates are needed. The number of parents willing to let their kid get cancer rather than protect them because of sex is appalling.
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:54 PM   #3413
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Sounds like Beto is gonna run for Texas governor. I think his "going to take your guns" comment during the debates is going to kill him.
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:27 PM   #3414
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Mistakes definitely happen but it was suspiciously quick (and convenient) in the retribution attack. How we got it wrong will be an interesting read. But yeah, someone should be held accountable.

Tragic all around.

The lack of coverage and outrage is somewhat predictable. If this had happened under a republican administration, there would be ad nauseum coverage on the major news outlets for weeks, and some of the folks in this forum would be in meltdown mode.
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:30 PM   #3415
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lol

Trump's drone strikes killed hundreds of civilians just in 2019 and nobody cared. This has been going on since Bush2.
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:19 PM   #3416
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Biden goes for bike ride at the beach amid national crises, refuses to answer questions | Fox News

If only he played golf all day instead...
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Old 09-20-2021, 10:18 AM   #3417
RainMaker
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Tragic all around.

The lack of coverage and outrage is somewhat predictable. If this had happened under a republican administration, there would be ad nauseum coverage on the major news outlets for weeks, and some of the folks in this forum would be in meltdown mode.

No, there was mostly silence when we did it under the Republican administrations. I would say the same for Obama, but some progressive groups and news outlets took him to task.

Point is, killing innocent civilians has been the Afghanistan war plan for over a decade now. The media wanted the war so they largely ignored it. It's only a story now because the media is upset we are leaving and they look like complete hacks for their 20 years of support of it.
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Old 09-20-2021, 02:54 PM   #3418
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I borked up this thread with a link.

Just a reminder this is how you can fix it https://forums.operationsports.com/f...1&postcount=45

Last edited by Edward64 : 09-20-2021 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:42 PM   #3419
Edward64
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Yeah, Space Force. Looks cool.

Forget the naysayers Biden. You're doing the right thing by not dismantling it. You know there's a threat out there.

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Old 09-22-2021, 06:27 AM   #3420
GrantDawg
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I do like those dress blues, Battle Star Galactica style.
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:01 AM   #3421
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Enjoyed the series but the main story line got too convoluted. Preferred the one-offs and non-mystical mumbo-jumbo stuff.
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:59 PM   #3422
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I do like those dress blues, Battle Star Galactica style.

I mean they took their logo from Star Trek. Why not just take things from all the best sci-fi shows?

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Old 09-22-2021, 10:15 PM   #3423
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The $1.2T infrastructure bill will come up for vote on Mon. We shall see what happens.

Article referred to "centrists". Then "liberals" as pushing for full package. Then also "progressives". Not sure difference between "liberals" vs "progressives". I'd always thought moderate liberals = centrists, radical/far left liberals = progressives.

Biden cools Democratic fever over domestic agenda, but can't cure it - POLITICO
Quote:
It remains unclear what will happen Monday when Democratic leaders are scheduled to bring a bill to the floor that they donít have the votes to pass. Progressives are still insisting they wonít help pass the Senate infrastructure bill until the social spending plan is also teed up for a vote ó a tall order given the bicameral haggling that is still underway on a range of unsettled issues related to that package.

Pelosi and her leadership team insist the infrastructure vote is still on track, though lawmakers privately say the outcome is uncertain.

ďThe billís going to be on the floor on Monday,Ē House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters Wednesday. Pelosi added later that "we are on schedule" when asked if the House would be considering the social spending plan Monday.

Moderates argue the House will have enough votes to pass that Senate infrastructure bill Monday, predicting that there arenít enough liberals willing to oppose a plank of Bidenís agenda on the floor. They also say at least some Republicans have pledged to support it, but those GOP votes became harder to rely on Wednesday, with House Republican leaders deciding to whip against the infrastructure bill.
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Old 09-23-2021, 08:03 AM   #3424
JPhillips
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In an alternate universe, Dems are passing both bills and preparing to blanket the country with local news stories telling people all of the awesome things that are in the bills.

Unfortunately, in this universe, Dems are telling voters that their own party's legislation is too extreme and also a corporate giveaway.

Solid politics by Dems, as always.
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Old 09-23-2021, 08:16 AM   #3425
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If the 1.2T does not pass the House, that's horrible for Biden.

If the 1.2T does pass the house, then that means that the White House has no leverage over the moderates to pass the reconciliation bill--Which everyone agrees would be good for the Dems politically if they passed as large as possible.

Unless I am missing something, it really does seem like the Dems are playing themselves.

And, in the meantime, the country is on track for a shutdown and debt default while the Dems control everything. Wonder who the voters will blame for that?

I agree with the Dems on policy, but politically, they really are like rooting for the New York Jets.

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Old 09-23-2021, 08:46 AM   #3426
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They are as bad as advertised at governing. I see why so many people don't vote Dem. The only thing that's going to keep me around is continued Constitutional crises. So, that's like a good news/bad news thing. They completely suck at doing anything to help anybody, much less themselves.
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:04 AM   #3427
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TBF the GOP is doing the obstruction thing perfectly. The same playbook. Yes the Dems can't get their house in order but if the GOP were a group of varied thoughts you'd have some people voting FOR things that other GOP members vote against. Unfortunately for our country they have become lemmings to the cause country be damned. If the country defulats on its debts I would reflect back on all of the times the dems coalesced and voted for passing resolutions to avoid doing so while the GOP was in charge... the other shoe drops and the GOP says F off. It'll be ugly for the DEMS but that's only because the GOP doesn't give two fucks.
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:45 AM   #3428
Brian Swartz
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Any alternate universe in which they pass both bills would need to be one in which they have larger majorities.
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Old 09-23-2021, 12:25 PM   #3429
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They keep portraying this as progressives vs moderates, but "moderates" in this case are just those who won't vote against their biggest donors. You can chart those people out to how much they've taken from the fossil fuel and pharmaceutical industry.

For instance, Sinema's stance on the pharma stuff is not moderate. 88% of the country supports negotiating drug prices. She's the extremist.
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Old 09-23-2021, 01:01 PM   #3430
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Top FL Senate GOPer is now going to evaluate all child vaccines to see if they are really necessary.

The GOP is an anti-vax party now.
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Old 09-23-2021, 01:40 PM   #3431
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Originally Posted by Brian Swartz View Post
Any alternate universe in which they pass both bills would need to be one in which they have larger majorities.

Or go through the painful process of compromise. Start high/low, meet somewhere in the middle, make it somewhat win-win vs win-lose.

I'm not ready to give up on Biden. Still some hope for $1.2T and <$3.5T bills passing.
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Old 09-23-2021, 02:48 PM   #3432
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Any alternate universe in which they pass both bills would need to be one in which they have larger majorities.

They have enough votes and they had a deal to pass both. It's really about a dozen Centrists, and they just need to decide if they are going to blow up the Biden agenda or not.

The House centrists really should be on board because a GOP wave election is going to take them out well before the AOCs of the party. Just look at who lost in 1994 and 2010.

The Senate is the problem. Manchin is probably not running again, so he'll do whatever and Sinema seems to be more focused on a high-dollar career after the Senate. But Biden should be able to work out something.

It's very much the ACA all over again, with Dems seemingly trying to convince the public that the legislation is a pile of shit. Excellent messaging, as always.
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Old 09-23-2021, 03:02 PM   #3433
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To call them centrists seems a bit dishonest. They're siding with special interest groups, nothing more. The ideas pitched in the bills are incredibly popular, even among both parties.

Let's just be honest and say that one party refuses to support any legislation. And a group from the other has been bribed to not support it. This has nothing to do with policy or political positions.
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Old 09-23-2021, 04:36 PM   #3434
NobodyHere
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Andrew Yang's 3rd Party Has a Name: 'the Forward Party'

I bet Yang would still fail to get the presidential nomination from this party.
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Old 09-23-2021, 08:31 PM   #3435
Brian Swartz
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Originally Posted by JPhillips
They have enough votes and they had a deal to pass both.

Really? When did this happen? When was there an agreement among all Democrats for both bills? I've never seen a quote from Manchin & Sinema, nevermind the others, being on board with the $3.5T package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker
To call them centrists seems a bit dishonest. They're siding with special interest groups, nothing more. The ideas pitched in the bills are incredibly popular, even among both parties.

Eh, not really. This is like asking if people are for Medicare 4 All. They are, until you tell them that means giving up their current plan/doctor/etc. Then they don't like it nearly as much. As of a month ago, a little under half of independents and only 20% of Republicans were in favor of the larger bill. Republicans oppose free college almost 2:1. The child care aspect and Medicare expansion do have broad support, but it's a mixed bag in terms of public support overall and that's before you get into the fact that thinking individual ideas are good doesn't mean people support doing them all now, particularly with rising inflation concerns (polls on that are all over the map really so no firm conclusions there).

I think you have a good point on some individual issues. It doesn't really apply to a broad package like this though that has a lot of considerations mixed into it.

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Old 09-23-2021, 09:36 PM   #3436
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The two track idea was a part of things while they were negotiating with the GOP. That's why the GOP threatened to walk.
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:56 PM   #3437
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All I'm saying is what matters isn't how many centrists there are compared to progressives. If you're going to insist on the bigger bill, you need the progressives to be a majority of Congress or it doesn't work. 48% of Congress isn't enough. It doesn't matter if most of your party is on board if there's enough defectors to join the opposition and defeat what you're trying to do.

That's why when I read things like they have enough votes - well no, they really really don't have enough votes and they never did.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:05 PM   #3438
JPhillips
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Everybody agreed on the two-track plan and then the centrists in the House bailed and now Manchin and Sinema are iffy. The Senate progressives would have never agreed to the bipartisan bill if they didn't believe the reconciliation bill would also pass.

Even now the progressives are willing to keep the deal, it's the centrists that are willing to blow everything up.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:53 PM   #3439
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Eh, not really. This is like asking if people are for Medicare 4 All. They are, until you tell them that means giving up their current plan/doctor/etc. Then they don't like it nearly as much. As of a month ago, a little under half of independents and only 20% of Republicans were in favor of the larger bill. Republicans oppose free college almost 2:1. The child care aspect and Medicare expansion do have broad support, but it's a mixed bag in terms of public support overall and that's before you get into the fact that thinking individual ideas are good doesn't mean people support doing them all now, particularly with rising inflation concerns (polls on that are all over the map really so no firm conclusions there).

I think you have a good point on some individual issues. It doesn't really apply to a broad package like this though that has a lot of considerations mixed into it.

The issue Sinema is holding things up over is the prescription drug stuff. It is an issue that has the support of 88% of the electorate.

The other health care stuff which she also now opposes was LITERALLY WHAT SHE RAN ON IN 2018.

These are not political positions she is taking and we should stop labeling them as "centrist" or "moderate" here. She got $750k in donations, that's why she doesn't support the bill. Unless you believe her entire political ideology changed in the course of 3 years.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:55 PM   #3440
RainMaker
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Being bribed to support or reject a bill is not a progressive, liberal, moderate, conservative, or whatever position. It's just paying for a vote.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:39 PM   #3441
JPhillips
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Dems are now talking about adding dental benefits to Medicare...

that will begin in 2028.

That will surely help with the 2022 election.
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:11 AM   #3442
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I think we can safely conclude that AOC is anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. But does that make her a racist? I think used in the context of Germany WW2, yes. But in today's terms, probably not.

Don't understand her strategy. I'm actually okay with her getting it out of the $3.5T bill and forcing this other vote (nice win for her). But the Iron Dome is defensive and she won't get a lot of sympathy (other than for her radical progressive & anti-semitic supporters). Pick on other offensive military stuff we give/subsidize/sell to Israel and that is a better fight.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/24/polit...ion/index.html
Quote:
The New York congresswoman's letter comes a day after the House easily approved $1 billion in funding for Israel's Iron Dome, advancing the bill to the Senate for consideration with just eight Democrats and one Republican voting against the measure. Ocasio-Cortez, a progressive, was one of just two members to vote "present" on the bill -- meaning they did not vote "yes" or "no" -- after the funding provision had been struck from a separate bill to prevent a government shutdown and suspend the nation's borrowing limit.

CNN reported seeing Ocasio-Cortez crying on the floor before voting, and in her letter the congresswoman explained her decision, citing the "rushed" legislative process, which, she said, "created very real spillover effects."

"It created a real sense of panic and horror among those in our community who otherwise engage thoughtfully in these discussions, and fueled the discussion to devolve to a point where it became clear that this vote would risk a severe devolution of the good faith community fabric that allows us to responsibly join in a struggle for human rights and dignity everywhere - from Palestine to The Bronx and Queens," Ocasio-Cortez said.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:11 AM   #3443
Flasch186
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Fwiw

Here in the states I don’t think you have to be anti-Israel to also be pro Palestinian

I am for example

I can’t understand why they over there can’t get along however I’ll admit that I don’t understand how humans treat each other the way they do globally.

I’m rooting for both sides of the argument over there to come together and live together in harmony. I’m pro Israel and pro Palestine.

Full transparency-I’m Jewish


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Old 09-25-2021, 07:26 AM   #3444
GrantDawg
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I also just don't understand why we are footing a billion dollar bill for a very wealthy country. Can someone explain that to me?
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:57 AM   #3445
JPhillips
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Still waiting for enough evidence to say Trump is a racist, but we've got plenty to say AOC is anti-Semetic?

lol
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:49 AM   #3446
Lathum
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:50 AM   #3447
Edward64
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Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
I also just don't understand why we are footing a billion dollar bill for a very wealthy country. Can someone explain that to me?

I don't disagree but can rationalize it. Not just $ but to show US commitment.

Bigger question is why are heavily subsidizing South Korea's defense. Talk about a rich country.
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:50 AM   #3448
Edward64
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Still waiting for enough evidence to say Trump is a racist, but we've got plenty to say AOC is anti-Semetic?

lol

So you don't think she is anti-Semitic?
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Old 09-25-2021, 10:52 AM   #3449
JPhillips
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Nope, not playing that game.
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Old 09-25-2021, 11:30 AM   #3450
Edward64
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That's fine. Don't bother responding to my posts with your quips if you don't want to engage in a discussion. It's worked great with your couple other bros.
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