Is This True?

Suicane75 · 01-15-2004, 01:19 PM

Just saw Micheal Moore on Charlie Rose and he said that On September 12th The Saudis were allowed to fly around the US and pick up members of Osama Bin Ladens family who were living here. I'll grant that i'm not the smartest guy and talk of politics usualy gives me a headache but I had never heard this before.

albionmoonlight · 01-15-2004, 01:23 PM

hxxp://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

replace xx with tt

korme · 01-15-2004, 01:23 PM

Dude Where's My Country?

The Afoci · 01-15-2004, 01:24 PM

I think I heard that it was true. Mainly it was his brothers and sisters that attend schools in the US, but really other than relation, have nothing to do with him. If I remember correctly, he and his family are at odds over the way they allow his brothers and sisters to be westernized.

The Afoci · 01-15-2004, 01:30 PM

I guess I stand corrected. It seems that they did move them from where they were, but they were spoken to before they were allowed to leave the country.

Castlerock · 01-15-2004, 01:32 PM

Question everything you hear from Michael Moore.

rkmsuf · 01-15-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Question everything you hear from Michael Moore.

He's a pantload...

Suicane75 · 01-15-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Question everything you hear from Michael Moore.

Thats why I came here. As weird as that sounds, I feel like theres an expert on this board on enough subjects and generaly smart people that I can get a good concise answer on just about anything. That and I'm too lazy to look for myself.

NoMyths · 01-15-2004, 01:42 PM

Question everything he says (as you should with any source concerning this war), but also know that even if you hate Michael Moore, he's sometimes more correct than his detractors would care to admit.

Samdari · 01-15-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Question everything he says (as you should with any source concerning this war), but also know that even if you hate Michael Moore, he's sometimes more correct than his detractors would care to admit.

Sure, but he has a rare talent for exaggeration and embellishment, and a seeming disdain for fact checking.

KevinNU7 · 01-15-2004, 01:47 PM

My guess is they let them go because they were afraid Americans would attack them because they were related to Osama. I'm pretty sure we know everything we need to know about his relatives in America and know if they are working against the US or not.

NoMyths · 01-15-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Sure, but he has a rare talent for exaggeration and embellishment, and a seeming disdain for fact checking.

Just like our President.

Castlerock · 01-15-2004, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Thats why I came here. As weird as that sounds, I feel like theres an expert on this board on enough subjects and generaly smart people that I can get a good concise answer on just about anything. That and I'm too lazy to look for myself.

And you will also get multiple opinions.

As for Michael Moore, I assume everything he says is wrong unless I can confirm it myself. To this day, I am pissed that he fooled me with his "documentary" Bowling for Columbine. He will not fool me again.

sterlingice · 01-15-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Just like our President.

Or many big name talk show hosts of the conservative persuasion? Each side has its blind zealots who don't check most of their facts. There's Moore on the left with Rush and O'Reilly on the right.

SI

korme · 01-15-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castlerock

And you will also get multiple opinions.

As for Michael Moore, I assume everything he says is wrong unless I can confirm it myself. To this day, I am pissed that he fooled me with his "documentary" Bowling for Columbine. He will not fool me again.

How were you fooled? My brother is a big fan of Michael Moore's and owns Bowling for Columbine. Just interested as I do not know much about him.

Easy Mac · 01-15-2004, 02:01 PM

I'm not a fan of Moore, but I think he's hilarious.

I too think that Osama's relative would have been picked up and gotten out of here for their protection, and if it is true, I have absolutely no problem with it.

John Galt · 01-15-2004, 02:06 PM

I remember we had the discussion about Bowling for Columbine a while ago and a lot of allegations were made about falsehoods he propogated. Strangely, a lot of the allegations became "true" in the eyes of the mass media (like the staging of the gun purchase from the bank and the timing of Heston's speeches). Anyway, I recently was referred to Moore's reply. You don't have to believe everything he says, but after looking at this and doing some more factchecking, I think Moore was mostly improperly maligned in the whole affair. Anyway, here is Moore's reply:

hxxp://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

Buddy Grant · 01-15-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

That and I'm too lazy to look for myself.

That description fits many (most?) of us here!

Castlerock · 01-15-2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

How were you fooled? My brother is a big fan of Michael Moore's and owns Bowling for Columbine. Just interested as I do not know much about him.

Well, I thought it was a documentary. As a documentary, I thought it was based on fact. I walked out of the theater thinking it was a good, thought-provoking film. Then I found out that it is almost completely misrepresentation.

See:
hxxp://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Replace hxxp with http above.

Samdari · 01-15-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

I think Moore was mostly improperly maligned in the whole affair.

Sure, according to Moore. But, there is one eggregious lie in his response which you link - the scene in the bank was not the first contact Moore had with the bank. There exists a fax (actual documentation, rather than someone's self-serving claims) he sent them weeks in advance of shooting that scene with all of the information needed for the background check. He probably did fill out those forms while he was there, but them being used for the background check within 10 minutes is pure fiction - it had been completed before Moore walked in that day.

rkmsuf · 01-15-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Sure, according to Moore. But, there is one eggregious lie in his response which you link - the scene in the bank was not the first contact Moore had with the bank. There exists a fax (actual documentation, rather than someone's self-serving claims) he sent them weeks in advance of shooting that scene with all of the information needed for the background check. He probably did fill out those forms while he was there, but them being used for the background check within 10 minutes is pure fiction - it had been completed before Moore walked in that day.

It's a movie, he's an entertainer. He makes money on this stuff...of course it's contrived...this is his schtick...

John Galt · 01-15-2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Sure, according to Moore. But, there is one eggregious lie in his response which you link - the scene in the bank was not the first contact Moore had with the bank. There exists a fax (actual documentation, rather than someone's self-serving claims) he sent them weeks in advance of shooting that scene with all of the information needed for the background check. He probably did fill out those forms while he was there, but them being used for the background check within 10 minutes is pure fiction - it had been completed before Moore walked in that day.

Moore's point in reply, however, is that the bank can and does issue guns the same day because they have authorization to do so. The fact that a movie contacted them beforehand so that there weren't any screwups (ie - what if Moore had a black mark on his record causing him to get rejected) is just smart, not deceptive. Moore had them do an initial check on his background, but the actual event wasn't staged.

The Afoci · 01-15-2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

The fact that a movie contacted them beforehand so that there weren't any screwups (ie - what if Moore had a black mark on his record causing him to get rejected) is just smart, not deceptive. Moore had them do an initial check on his background, but the actual event wasn't staged.

Then why not state that in the movie then.

bbor · 01-15-2004, 02:49 PM

Moore is a twat.

Castlerock · 01-15-2004, 03:04 PM

Whether or not the bank scene was staged, I don't have a real problem with. I don't doubt that there was a bank which gave away a rifle for opening an account. He certainly makes it look like they would instantly give a gun to anyone but I'm willing to let that slide. It's not a central deception. In fact, I don't think the web page I offered even mentions this.

I encourage you read Moore's reply to criticisms about Heston's Denver speech. Then read the link I provided. Then re-read Moore's reply. Even his reply is deceptive.

John Galt · 01-15-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Afoci

Then why not state that in the movie then.

Because, obviously, it wouldn't have the same effect. A documentary can never be real time recording of events just like they would happen in real life. Checking ahead, getting the proper paperwork, and setting certain things up is an inevitability. If doing so distorts the events then you shouldn't do it, but I don't think Moore's checking ahead did anything to distort what would have happened otherwise. You can disagree, but as far as I know, the bank has never denied that they have issued guns on the same day because they are so authorized under federal law.

tucker342 · 01-15-2004, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Sure, but he has a rare talent for exaggeration and embellishment, and a seeming disdain for fact checking.

As do almost all of the political writers, Democrat and Republican....

mckerney · 01-15-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's a movie, he's an entertainer. He makes money on this stuff...of course it's contrived...this is his schtick...

Though he calls them 'documentries' when they belong in the comedy section.

tucker342 · 01-15-2004, 03:43 PM

dola-

Michael Moore's source in his book Dude Where's My Country for that statement is:

6. Patrick E. Tyler, "Fearing harm, bin Laden kin fled from US," The New York Times, September 30, 2001.

Here's a link to the article: hxxp://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60F14F63F590C738FDDA00894D9404482
(switch the xx to tt)

Take what you want from it....

The Afoci · 01-15-2004, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

Because, obviously, it wouldn't have the same effect. A documentary can never be real time recording of events just like they would happen in real life. Checking ahead, getting the proper paperwork, and setting certain things up is an inevitability. If doing so distorts the events then you shouldn't do it, but I don't think Moore's checking ahead did anything to distort what would have happened otherwise. You can disagree, but as far as I know, the bank has never denied that they have issued guns on the same day because they are so authorized under federal law.

The effect would have been changed if he would have been denied. What he did was ensure he would be approved and then went and did it. That is not being truthful.

Marmel · 01-15-2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Question everything he says (as you should with any source concerning this war), but also know that even if you hate Michael Moore, he's sometimes more correct than his detractors would care to admit.

Will you ever be done sucking M. Moore's cock?

NoMyths · 01-15-2004, 08:57 PM

It's always funny to me that by posting even the most slight defense of even a single issue relating to Michael Moore, folks think I'm waving the fanboy flag. Like how I specifically instruct folks to question everything he says in my post, and then I get the above post (which I took in jest, of course, but it did remind me that I needed to clarify things or the some amongst us might think otherwise).

Come to think of it, that's happening right now with Bucc calling me a "political extremist," when I'm much more of a political moderate. Guess everyone's got to jump to the nth power when commenting on a viewpoint they don't hold. *shurg*

Marmel · 01-15-2004, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMyths

It's always funny to me that by posting even the most slight defense of even a single issue relating to Michael Moore, folks think I'm waving the fanboy flag. Like how I specifically instruct folks to question everything he says in my post, and then I get the above post (which I took in jest, of course, but it did remind me that I needed to clarify things or the some amongst us might think otherwise).

Come to think of it, that's happening right now with Bucc calling me a "political extremist," when I'm much more of a political moderate. Guess everyone's got to jump to the nth power when commenting on a viewpoint they don't hold. *shurg*

It is not really any of that NM. It is just that you hardly post here, but if there is a Michael Moore thread, it is guaranteed you will jump in and support what he has to say. I don't really give a crap about any political thread on this forum, but I just like to bust your pansy-ass liberal chops.

NoMyths · 01-15-2004, 09:11 PM

Ah. Well, in that case, please feel free to follow your own example and polish my personal knob.

01-15-2004, 01:23 PM	#2
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	hxxp://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm replace xx with tt Last edited by albionmoonlight : 01-15-2004 at 01:23 PM.

01-15-2004, 01:23 PM	#3
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Dude Where's My Country? Last edited by korme : 01-15-2004 at 01:23 PM.

01-15-2004, 01:24 PM	#4
The Afoci Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Moorhead	I think I heard that it was true. Mainly it was his brothers and sisters that attend schools in the US, but really other than relation, have nothing to do with him. If I remember correctly, he and his family are at odds over the way they allow his brothers and sisters to be westernized. __________________ I had something.

01-15-2004, 01:30 PM	#5
The Afoci Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Moorhead	I guess I stand corrected. It seems that they did move them from where they were, but they were spoken to before they were allowed to leave the country. __________________ I had something.

01-15-2004, 01:47 PM	#11
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	My guess is they let them go because they were afraid Americans would attack them because they were related to Osama. I'm pretty sure we know everything we need to know about his relatives in America and know if they are working against the US or not. __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

01-15-2004, 01:32 PM	#6
Castlerock High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, Ma	Question everything you hear from Michael Moore.

01-15-2004, 01:42 PM	#9
NoMyths Poet in Residence Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charleston, SC	Question everything he says (as you should with any source concerning this war), but also know that even if you hate Michael Moore, he's sometimes more correct than his detractors would care to admit.

01-15-2004, 02:01 PM	#16
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I'm not a fan of Moore, but I think he's hilarious. I too think that Osama's relative would have been picked up and gotten out of here for their protection, and if it is true, I have absolutely no problem with it.

01-15-2004, 02:06 PM	#17
John Galt Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Internets	I remember we had the discussion about Bowling for Columbine a while ago and a lot of allegations were made about falsehoods he propogated. Strangely, a lot of the allegations became "true" in the eyes of the mass media (like the staging of the gun purchase from the bank and the timing of Heston's speeches). Anyway, I recently was referred to Moore's reply. You don't have to believe everything he says, but after looking at this and doing some more factchecking, I think Moore was mostly improperly maligned in the whole affair. Anyway, here is Moore's reply: hxxp://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/ __________________ I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. - The Dude Last edited by John Galt : 01-15-2004 at 02:09 PM.

01-15-2004, 02:49 PM	#24
bbor Pro Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: toronto	Moore is a twat. __________________ Pumpy Tudors Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.

01-15-2004, 03:04 PM	#25
Castlerock High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, Ma	Whether or not the bank scene was staged, I don't have a real problem with. I don't doubt that there was a bank which gave away a rifle for opening an account. He certainly makes it look like they would instantly give a gun to anyone but I'm willing to let that slide. It's not a central deception. In fact, I don't think the web page I offered even mentions this. I encourage you read Moore's reply to criticisms about Heston's Denver speech. Then read the link I provided. Then re-read Moore's reply. Even his reply is deceptive.

01-15-2004, 03:43 PM	#29
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	dola- Michael Moore's source in his book Dude Where's My Country for that statement is: 6. Patrick E. Tyler, "Fearing harm, bin Laden kin fled from US," The New York Times, September 30, 2001. Here's a link to the article: hxxp://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60F14F63F590C738FDDA00894D9404482 (switch the xx to tt) Take what you want from it....

01-15-2004, 08:57 PM	#32
NoMyths Poet in Residence Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charleston, SC	It's always funny to me that by posting even the most slight defense of even a single issue relating to Michael Moore, folks think I'm waving the fanboy flag. Like how I specifically instruct folks to question everything he says in my post, and then I get the above post (which I took in jest, of course, but it did remind me that I needed to clarify things or the some amongst us might think otherwise). Come to think of it, that's happening right now with Bucc calling me a "political extremist," when I'm much more of a political moderate. Guess everyone's got to jump to the nth power when commenting on a viewpoint they don't hold. shurg

01-15-2004, 09:11 PM	#34
NoMyths Poet in Residence Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charleston, SC	Ah. Well, in that case, please feel free to follow your own example and polish my personal knob.

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